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Author Topic: Obama in 9 Point lead over McCain
Propertymanager
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quote:
ALL the big wheels that ran the system and poked a hole in the bottom of the financial boat so it would sink are big time republican Party supporters and operatives,
RIDICULOUS gibberish by the king of gibberish. Both sides caused this mess and you know it. To claim otherwise is simply more of the socialist nonsense that you are always spewing.

quote:
No more of your Party line "blame the government" B.S
If you had the same ability to read that you do to spew gibberish, you would know that I don't have a party line. In fact, I have been exceedingly critical of the Republicans and have put most of the blame for this mess on President Bush. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative. Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.
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glassman
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i've been looking all over for a clear concise explanation of the CDS market, if there is one? i can't find it.

part of the reason for that is that each "contract" is written specifically for the underlying security...

ther eis no centralised clearing house for them, apparently they don't even have cusip#'s...

basically a hedge fund or a bank or even indivdual can and did collect a couple of hundred thousand a year for garanteeing rates of return on bonds...

each contract is negotiated/taylored specifically for the "needs" of the parties of the contract ...

Originally used as a form of insurance against bad debts, these instruments became a tool for financial speculation when the US Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 specifically barred regulation of these trades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap

the other thing that crashed the markets is an accounting rule change requiring that all assets be priced based on their actual trading value, and not some arbitrarily convenient value decided by the holders.


these contracts can be made by any party with any other party.

One large difference between credit default swaps and other types of insurance, is you do not need to own the bond or instrument being insured in order to obtain insurance on it. If the bond fails, then, theoretically, you get paid, possibly along with many others. Yet the "insurer" of the bond is not regulated and the transaction is beyond federal or state regulation. This allow speculators to make money by purchasing insurance on a company's bonds and then shorting the stock of the company in great quantity and getting a payoff that exceeds their risk of shorting if the price of the company's stock increases.

and that is why they banned shorting

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
ALL the big wheels that ran the system and poked a hole in the bottom of the financial boat so it would sink are big time republican Party supporters and operatives,
RIDICULOUS gibberish by the king of gibberish. Both sides caused this mess and you know it. To claim otherwise is simply more of the socialist nonsense that you are always spewing.

quote:
No more of your Party line "blame the government" B.S
If you had the same ability to read that you do to spew gibberish, you would know that I don't have a party line. In fact, I have been exceedingly critical of the Republicans and have put most of the blame for this mess on President Bush. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative. Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.

I didn't expect you to be able to understand. Even were you capable of handling anything that wasn't spoon fed to you by the RNC, you are too damned single minded to bother to think and, if you were able to think, too selfish and mean to think about anything but your own interest.

The suggestion that you aren't a republican flies about as high as the suggestion that you are not a selfish jerk. Your claim to be a conservative is nonsense, because, philosophically, you are, at best, a 19th century antique of Fagin like persuasion.

I say again,

THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
I say again,

THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

You can say it again; type in in all caps; convert it to gibberish; and shout it from the rooftop. It's still untrue and it's still nonsense.
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glassman
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Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.

admit it PM, you don't like anything or anybody.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
I say again,

THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

You can say it again; type in in all caps; convert it to gibberish; and shout it from the rooftop. It's still untrue and it's still nonsense.
All right, Fagin, old boy, I will, because it is fact.


THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.

admit it PM, you don't like anything or anybody.

Common, glass..., he's just fighting fire with fire. After all, who likes him?
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Lockman
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THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?

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Let's Go METS!!!

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bdgee
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What I'd truly like is for this bunch to cease to exists and let the republican party return to the responsible party that was before Tricky Dick destroyed its integrity and Bonzo's buddy and intellectual equal loaded it with far right wing religious machinery.

I disagreed with a lot that Everet Dirkson or Barry Goldwater said, but they respected that and WANTED to understand WHY and find a way to use all ideas for the betterment of the people, never resorting to the cheap rattling of religious or racial bigotry, but spoke with the elegant power of the American dream and the Constitution as they are.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?

Lockman, don't you think it's up to what's left of the GOP to redefine itself?

this whole laissez-faire economic approach has proven itself to be a failure...

i am fully prepared to begin arguing agianst the next admin's policies where i see them lacking or just plain wrong...

this issue of raising taxes stinks to high heaven, but let's be realistic about taxes. the GOP has spent 4-5 trillion$ that have yet to be collected... that's about 1/3 of annual GDP....

no house hold can survive behaving that way...

no nation can either unless they become a fascist nation taking over others and bleeding them dry...

--------------------
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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.

OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?

Lockman, don't you think it's up to what's left of the GOP to redefine itself?

this whole laissez-faire economic approach has proven itself to be a failure...

i am fully prepared to begin arguing agianst the next admin's policies where i see them lacking or just plain wrong...

this issue of raising taxes stinks to high heaven, but let's be realistic about taxes. the GOP has spent 4-5 trillion$ that have yet to be collected... that's about 1/3 of annual GDP....

no house hold can survive behaving that way...

no nation can either unless they become a fascist nation taking over others and bleeding them dry...

I see your point I'm just interested in WHAT EXACTLY IS BEGEES POINT! All he ever wines about is how the republican party is at fault for everything in the universe. Ok they are! Now what! Does he ever have any solutions that don't involve bashing the republican party. Does he think Obama and the democratic controlled congress are going to make things better or is he just going to continue to blame every bad thing on republicans and anything good credit democrat's.

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Let's Go METS!!!

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glassman
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good question, what will a dem controlled govt do?

they'll try to go too far left and make everybody angry at them IMO...

--------------------
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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
good question, what will a dem controlled govt do?

they'll try to go too far left and make everybody angry at them IMO...

and then begee will blame it all on those dam republicans.

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The Bigfoot
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Probably,

But by the time that happens they will have taken care of a good chunk of the national debt and imposed some restrictions on the unabashed looting of America. If we are lucky we might even see some reduction in the disparity of wage increases between the middle class and the upper class. And maybe just maybe Obama will revoke some of the more controversial signing statements Bush has issued.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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bdgee
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I answered your silly query, lockjaw. So stop the insulting asinine attacks and THINK!

The idiotic idea that one is disallowed from discovering failure or pointing at it without citing a guaranteed route to perfection is the sort of trash thinking that comes from Ron Ron with his claim that "Government is the problem", which is actually only an admission that one is incapable of plotting a suitable course to success, along with the conceited notion that no one else could be smarter than me, so therefore there is no way.

Right now, and for the last several decades, the vast majority of f-ch-up of in and by the U.S. is the refusal of the republican party to act responsibility and get off the Party first band wagon. If you don't like it, t.s., because that is the fact.

Too, I haven't championed the democratic platform at all, but if you are hide bound to be a Party first republican patsy like you are, you will continue to scream and yell that what isn't parroted from the republican mantra is democratic and continue being an asinine jerk. I know you are habitually restricted from thinking and are trained to not veer off the Party line mantra, but THINK for a change. If one witnessed a car run a red light and end the life of a pedestrian that was strolling across on a green light, you are not an enemy of the driver because you pointed out the guilty party and you are not required to detail how it should be done in the future.

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glassman
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once Bush is out of office? his signing statemnets don't mean squat. other than that he's an arrogant SOB who thinks he makes thelaws.

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The Bigfoot
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Really? I thought they carried over if the next pres so chooses to use them.

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Lockman
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begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.

Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?

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Let's Go METS!!!

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.

Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?

Well, it seems they must have been House Republicans because they wouldn't pass the bill without those earmarks as shown be their first rejection of the bill. Add the earmarks they wanted, and voila! The bill is passed.

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.

Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?

"I'm for disolving the republican party. "

Ha ha ha

One party is what the republicans have been after for decades.

No, we need two parties, one in power (generally, that means holding the presidency) and an opposition party, not for the purpose of stifling the party in power (as is all the senate republican are now doing, in that body), but to assure that it considers all angles of a question before making law. We do NOT, without a parliamentary form of government, need a third part or four or five or......unless we want that chaos that results from no government.

"Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion....."

I think it was Reed, at the insistence of the senate republican bloc. It was one of those necessary compromises.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.

Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?

Well, it seems they must have been House Republicans because they wouldn't pass the bill without those earmarks as shown be their first rejection of the bill. Add the earmarks they wanted, and voila! The bill is passed.
Who are they? They should be removed from office.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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ohio_trader
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how can anyone say anything good about these people, deny the problem they created because it is there folks that make up over 50% of defaulted mortgages, and i know this for a fact,i've been in the business for 15 + years, there people tear up everthing they touch and our pathetic credit risks, these people couldn't even pay rent on time there entire lives, but thought they could own homes,lol

http://gatewaypundit.********.com/2008/09/devastating-dems-refuse-to-reform.html


insert b l o g s p o t ( no spaces) for ********

maxine walters i think mcdonalds needs a broom sweeper, gregory meeks you can clean toilets your best qualifications, artur davis another tool- and these idiots run our government- no wonder the u.s. is in so much trouble

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ohio_trader
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at the end of the video even Bill Clinton acknowledged these people( certain dems) could have stopped the problem, but did nothing and it eventually derailed the entire country
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bdgee
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Oh, my, spelling has change since I was a sprout. Let me see....

Fishermen bait there hooks.

Dogs wag there tails.

Fish wag there tails too.

Bats use there sonar to find tasty bugs.

- - -

I'm practicing. Gonna take a while but I'll learn, I'm sure.

Do I have to also learn to be biased on class?

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The Bigfoot
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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is indeed the culprit behind the earmarks. If you want to go farther in depth you would need to look at the earmarks and see who's regions benefit. I do not like him regardless of affiliation and would be happy to see him go.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is indeed the culprit behind the earmarks. If you want to go farther in depth you would need to look at the earmarks and see who's regions benefit. I do not like him regardless of affiliation and would be happy to see him go.

He put them in, but who requested them. Most likely, the ones who voted against the House bill. And, those were Republicans. The trail is not hard to follow IMO.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by ohio_trader:
how can anyone say anything good about these people, deny the problem they created because it is there folks that make up over 50% of defaulted mortgages, and i know this for a fact,i've been in the business for 15 + years, there people tear up everthing they touch and our pathetic credit risks, these people couldn't even pay rent on time there entire lives, but thought they could own homes,lol

http://gatewaypundit.********.com/2008/09/devastating-dems-refuse-to-reform.html


insert b l o g s p o t ( no spaces) for ********

maxine walters i think mcdonalds needs a broom sweeper, gregory meeks you can clean toilets your best qualifications, artur davis another tool- and these idiots run our government- no wonder the u.s. is in so much trouble

I don't think you can place all the blame on someone who was allowed to take on a mortgage that in the end they could not support.

Farmers where encouraged to take out large loans and expand their farms, then when the crops didn't pan out they lost their farms.

These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Propertymanager
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quote:
These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.
EXACTLY!
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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i've been looking all over for a clear concise explanation of the CDS market, if there is one? i can't find it.


this article might explain it somewhat the came out in the NY Post today:

EX-AIGS ON THE HOT SEAT
and...
Last updated: 3:52 am
October 7, 2008
Posted: 1:32 am
October 7, 2008

Former AIG CEO Martin Sullivan and disgraced ex-governor Eliot Spitzer are expected to get the lion's share of blame in congressional hearings today on the AIG implosion.

Former CEO Hank Greenberg claims he could have saved AIG from its $85 billion downfall if Spitzer had not driven him out as head of the company during a political "witch hunt."

The revelation from inside the Greenberg camp came as both he and two top AIG figures were slated to appear before a congressional panel trying to unravel the AIG crisis, which triggered an unprecedented $85 billion government takeover.

Several sources said Greenberg for years had methodically avoided the kind of toxic risk now blamed for wrecking much of Wall Street - the so-called credit-default swaps (CDS) - esoteric bets on whether a company could repay its debt.

"In the 9 months after [Greenberg] left the company, his successors took on more CDS than he ever had in seven years since they first emerged in the market," said one insider familiar with the crisis.

Greenberg was forced out in 2004 as chairman-CEO after then-New York Attorney General Spitzer alleged that Greenberg concocted insurance products to help clients cook their books. No formal charges were filed against Greenberg.


AIG's woes began earlier this year when it wrote off $25 billion in assets - primarily the now-worthless CDS based on junk securities known as collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) created from subprime mortgages.

"It took just nine months to destroy a company that took 40 years to build," said the source.

Greenberg's successor as CEO, Martin Sullivan - who was later fired - is also scheduled to appear today along with AIG's ex-Chairman Robert Willumstad.

Greenberg originally sold a handful of similar CDS between 1995 and 2004 for European banks to cover credit lines among themselves, not risky bets like those based on junk mortgages. Greenberg's sale earned $5 billion for AIG.

"There's no way Hank would have ever taken on such risks that Sullivan did. Hank held weekly meetings with senior management and had intimate knowledge of every detail on investments they made."

"When Martin Sullivan took over, he eliminated those weekly meetings and removed all the controls that Hank had set up.

Another senior insider said: "Marty took his eye off the ball for too long and wasn't paying attention that a train wreck was coming."

Sullivan couldn't be reached for comment.

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.


almost all of these mortgages were issued in '03, '04 and '05....

futhermore? fannie and freddie are less than a third of the sub-prime mortgage market...

in other words PRIVATE enterprise did more than 2/3 of the subprime mortgages because they were GREEDY...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:

These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.


almost all of these mortgages were issued in '03, '04 and '05....

futhermore? fannie and freddie are less than a third of the sub-prime mortgage market...

in other words PRIVATE enterprise did more than 2/3 of the subprime mortgages because they were GREEDY...

But who eat them? Once the sub-prime mortgage is given by the bank, fanny or freddie takes responsiblity for them.

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Let's Go METS!!!

Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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Once the sub-prime mortgage is given by the bank, fanny or freddie takes responsiblity for them.

then why did Countrywide fail? too much talk-radio-tv propaganda floating around out there..

this is axactly why we keep going from the frying pan into the fire...

people assign blame instead of accept it.

70% of Americans still believed Sadam was involved in 911 last election...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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