Obviously people do not have the confidence that McCain knows any economics and how to solves such problems and forget Palin because anything she does will benefit Alaska more then the rest of us:
Economy Gives Obama Clear Edge in Poll
(Sept. 24) - Recent economic woes have given Democrat Barack Obama a clear lead over Republican John McCain, a new poll shows. The Washington Post/ABC News national poll finds Obama leading McCain by 9 points, 52 to 43 percent, among likely voters. Just two weeks ago, in the days following the Republican convention, the same poll showed the two candidates in a virtual tie, with McCain at 49 percent and Obama at 47 percent. Neither of the last two Democratic candidates had support of more than 50 percent in a Post-ABC poll in the 2004 or 2000 elections. Obama has a 14-point lead over McCain in who voters trust to handle the economy. Get the Full Story From Washingtonpost.com More Coverage: Poll Finds 18 Percent of Likely Voters Undecided
Posted by glassman on :
the Palin bounce was short-lived..
Posted by Machiavelli on :
time to short sell her... especially "naked" short sell her lol Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the Palin bounce was short-lived..
In one sense, the economy has been a Godsend to Palin.
I doubt her lack of experience and all the improprieties of her style of governing could have let her last 'til now as a political sweetheart anyway, if attention hadn't been switched to "the bail out".
Posted by bond006 on :
Now if Obama can hammer McCain good on these debates not only can he hold his gain he can widen it.
He has shown he can take the lead but he has been giving it slowly back
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by bond006: Now if Obama can hammer McCain good on these debates not only can he hold his gain he can widen it.
He has shown he can take the lead but he has been giving it slowly back
oh my what's gonna happen if Obama gets hammered? Rumor has it he's locked himself away so he can study his canned answers. At least McCain is confident enough to stay on the campaign trail bonding with the people.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:Originally posted by bond006: Now if Obama can hammer McCain good on these debates not only can he hold his gain he can widen it.
He has shown he can take the lead but he has been giving it slowly back
oh my what's gonna happen if Obama gets hammered? Rumor has it he's locked himself away so he can study his canned answers. At least McCain is confident enough to stay on the campaign trail bonding with the people.
Oops! No campaign bonding for McCain. He is also asking to postpone the debates.
Posted by Lockman on :
Rumor has it OBAMA suggested it first.
Posted by bdgee on :
Nope, Obama suggested a joint statement, that McCain agreed to do.
Is this some of the cooperation John boy brags about?
Posted by bond006 on :
Thats a possibility that Obama could get hammered good.
But to do that McCain has to come out of hidding and meet him on the debate floor.
I knew McCain would wimp out.
Rumor that Obama wanted to out first Repubilcan Lie not rumor. Obama says the show goes on.
Posted by glassman on :
not a GOP lie, McCain is trying to appear to be doing something...
of course there will be a huge spin campaign now from both sides, but IMO we cannot suspend democracy (completely)...
all we need now is a flu epidemic and Dick Cheney can pronounce himself Emperor of the Socialist Republic of the United States of America...
Posted by bond006 on :
McCain can always seek the advice of his VP Caribou Barbie unless she is out on one of her wolf murdering missions with an areoplane and a high powered rifle. O give em a chance Palin
Posted by thinkmoney on :
What I dont get is such sexism towards Palin and also was targeted at Hilary --- let them be sexist and forget the issues cause men have proven capable of govening?
Always a sexist remark - Ill be a sexist - last night i was watching capital news at UN and also senate hearings - most white males and alot old - and i asked myself - are these the folks responsbile for the state of world affairs? We need new blood - more women ---
Most guys cant get over it that we are smarter and not so warlike and only think by brain and rick - woman think by heart and brain ---and spirit --
Posted by glassman on :
on the flip side of that TM? it feels like we have to be extra careful not to be perceived as sexist too...
i pretty much unload on all the guys, but no about their hairdo, so i try to stay away from that, but i really think she should find a new hair dresser (JK)
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Yeah - Ill say - life is unfair - but we all have to get past the sexism and racism - and really ask who is the best candidate...
And, glass - being a white male is tough as is being an american - I am an american but of second generation and had nothin to do with slavery in this country but automatically whitie refers to all whites - and as I said before alot of african americans came here after slavery yet indigenous blacks are victims but african blacks who are immigrants or kids of immigrants excel in this society...
It is not race but the values and the victim role .....
Posted by glassman on :
if Palin had been Governor of California for a second term? alot of the criticism would not be being so "insignificant"...
like the grades? nobody asked if Ahnold had good grades... but we just don't have much to go on with her...
my dislike of Hillary has nothing to do with her being a woman... unless you want to consider her choice of husband
Posted by bond006 on :
Ha,Ha,Ha caribou Baebie you think that is sexist or the hunting habits of just one of many lazy Alaskan welfare jerks. Ok its your life.
Posted by a surfer on :
I am sure some of you will love this....cut and paste.....
CAPITAL GAINS TAX
MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
DIVIDEND TAX
MCCAIN 15% (no change)
OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
INCOME TAX
MCCAIN
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500 Single making 50K - tax $12,500 Single making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 60K- tax $9,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
INHERITANCE TAX
MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.
NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
And this says nothing about stripping of the DoD, appeasement of the terrorists, and loss of US sovereignty under “world citizen” Obama’s relinquishment of US rights to the UN and World Court . Nor does it talk of loss of rights in “Fairness Laws” which are only fair to the minority.
You can verify the above at the following web sites:
The difference is the taxes will be used more wisely with obama......And with Bush...I mean Mcain...Would could end up paying for another Iraq type war...or another 100 years in the current war.
I'll gladly pay the taxes if it can better our economy, education, ect...cause in the long run our dollar will stretch father if our taxes are used wisely!
Posted by bdgee on :
Yeah, Ace, and the fact that those figures surfer gives are completely wrong.
I think he must be getting those from some standard liar, maybed Limbaugh or Hannity. They are bogus.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
How do you know bdgee?
Posted by bdgee on :
Because I know how much several people have paid and how much they make.
Posted by raybond on :
I have seen Obamas web sight and no such figures like surfers are there.
If you are interested in lower taxes there is only one way to get there balance a budget and that is something the republicans have not done since Richard Nixon.
Look at the mess this idiot Bush thing has done to this country and now he thinks nothing about giving away 700 billion more to the top end what a moron.
I wonder where Oswald is when you really need him
Posted by wallymac on :
Calculator shows taxes under McCain, Obama BY DION LEFLER The Wichita Eagle
Like a lot of Americans, you might be confused by the repeated and competing tax claims of the nation's presidential candidates.
Now, there's a Web site where you can figure out for yourself how the candidates' tax plans could affect you.
The site, www.electiontaxes.com, features a calculator that allows you to put in your earnings and deductions and decide whether you'd fare better under a McCain or Obama administration.
The calculator is a partnership of the University of Southern Maine and Quantix, a company that develops business modeling software, said Jeff Gramlich, the L.L. Bean professor of accounting at the university.
Gramlich said he put together the data and formulas for the calculator, while Quantix provided the computing muscle to make it accessible to ordinary taxpayers.
The idea, he said, is to help the ordinary voter cut through the fog around both candidates' tax plans.
The calculator will estimate your taxes for the next four years under both the McCain and Obama plans.
Cap. gains tax dividend tax income tax inheritance tax
will not be higher under Obama.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
surfer,
Did ya look at the snopes article? It spells it out.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: surfer,
Did ya look at the snopes article? It spells it out.
Yes I read it and posted it above, but I presume wally posted it from Snopes to show that the status (on top of the article) was false.
Hell I know taxes under Obama will be higher.
Specially for our family.
I just want to hear it from these guys that taxes won't be higher.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
LOL
You didn't read far enough.
Capital Gains: Neither candidate is going to change the $500,000 exemption. Obama has said he'd likely raise cap gains tax. 28% is where it was during Clinton's years. Obama says no more than that and his Tax Plan on his website says top at 20%.
Dividends: Obama says it should be taxed same as Capital Gains. He has publicly said Capital gains certainly wouldn't be above 28% and his Tax Plan on his website quotes 20%. Additionally it says this change would only affect households that make more than $250,000 per year.
Income tax: Households making less than $250,000 per year will pay less tax with Obama's plan, not more.
Inheritance Tax: Inheritance Tax was never repealed by Bush. Estate tax generally applies only to estates valued at 2 Million or more and tops out at 45%. Inheritance Tax is ALREADY SCHEDULED to raise exclusion amount to 3.5 Mil in 2009, in 2010 it will be suspended completely, and then in 2011 it is ALREADY SCHEDULED to be reinstated with a 1 Mil exclusion and top rate of 55%
Obama wants to change it to a 3.5 Million exclusion with a top rate of 45% standard.
Other New Taxes Proposed by Obama:
New Tax on homes bigger than 2400 sq. feet: Lie, Obama has not proposed this tax.
New Tax on gasoline: Lie, Obama has not proposed this tax.
New Tax on retirement accounts: Lie, Obama has not proposed this tax.
New tax on natural resource consumption: If referring to Cap and Trade pollution control then yes, though that is a cost charge to polluters not a tax on the public.
New tax for Universal Healthcare: Obama states his healthcare plan can be funded by repealing the Bush tax cuts on those who make more than $250,000 per year. This then is not a new tax.
So really surfer, unless your family brings in more the 250k a year and owns a home worth more than 500k...no,your family's taxes will not be higher.
Posted by bdgee on :
"So really surfer, unless your family brings in more the 250k a year and owns a home worth more than 500k...no,your family's taxes will not be higher."
AND THAT IS $250k AFTER ALL YOUR DEDUCTIONS, NOT BEFORE!
Posted by Lockman on :
Well lets usher in the obama years.
Doesn't look like I'll be paying any taxes and their gonna kick in free health care.
And I'm gonna get a nice check to boot!
Posted by BooDog on :
WASHINGTON (Associated Press) -- In a major concession, Republican John McCain has abandoned efforts to win Michigan, a Democratic-leaning battleground state the GOP presidential candidate had hoped to capture. Republican officials with knowledge of the strategy said the GOP nominee is removing staff, curtailing advertising and canceling visits to the Midwestern state, which offers 17 electoral votes. http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximize d&view=article&id=D93IICRO0&_action=validatearticle Posted by bdgee on :
It was over when Obama said "I agree with Senator MaCain on that....", with Palin then proving in interviews that she is a political dunce being icing on the cake.
Tonight watch Biden spoon ice cream on the side of the plate by agreeing with Palin as an introduction to his answer to questions.
They are playing rope-a-dope and the republicans keep on swinging hard to try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Posted by BooDog on :
Democrats in roman (235); Republicans in italic (199); vacancies (1) OH11; total 435. The number preceding the name is the Member’s district.
This is today, And they the people want change.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I am more worried about the kind of people who are cultishly attracted to Obama than Obama himself.
Just look at how people on this board react to anything that questions some of his actions.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I am more worried about the kind of people who are cultishly attracted to Obama than Obama himself.
Just look at how people on this board react to anything that questions some of his actions.
As opposed to the cult around Palin and how you and others react when we question her actions and such?
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I am more worried about the kind of people who are cultishly attracted to Obama than Obama himself.
Just look at how people on this board react to anything that questions some of his actions.
If you don't have a mirror, try finding a still pool of water and say that while looking at yourself therein, when anyone doesn't heap abundant and ridiculous uncalled for praise on Palin or McCain.
Posted by Peaser on :
Again another election, where we the people must choose between the lesser of two evils.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Well I just proved my point after the two responses.
Posted by bdgee on :
So, it's clear you didn't bother to look at yourself and your own actions.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Well I just proved my point after the two responses.
You proved nothing... absolutely nothing...
Posted by bdgee on :
No, no, Mach, he has established quite conclusively that he is totally devoted to barking out RNC propaganda, making like a a one trick pony at the county fair and running the wrong way on a one way road.
What more do you want him to prove.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I can not help myself from laughing when I read what you write bdgee. You are much more comical than politically informative.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yeah? I do appreciate that you enjoy the comedy I try to include. I do put out effort to that end.
And that you would put forth the effort to follow it, means that, hopefully and eventually, you will also begin to recognize the informative political aspects also.
It probably won't happen overnight, so be patient. It takes more than luck and wishing to go from nowhere to somewhere and the trip from republican parrot to rationality is a far far longer journey.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Are you trying to say that the Democratic party has no parrots such as yourself?
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Anyone whos long-time spiritual mentor and pastor turns out to be a rabid, racist, America-hater who claims the U.S. invented AIDS to wipe out black people is questionable in my mind.
"Not God bless, but 'God d--- America!'" -Jeremiah Wright
Posted by glassman on :
and just think, we still get 30 whole more days of this Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Oh Glass you know it will get even better the closer we get. Just wait till the night of the next debate!
I already know what bdgee will say: Oh Obama won hands down and then he will go into his obamanation scripture.
Posted by bdgee on :
CCM, you are an ignorant loudmouth republican parrot by choice.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Bdgee, obama says what you want to hear. baaaaa baaaaa
I am not voting for a liberal who will surround himself with gun grabbing loonies
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Bdgee, obama says what you want to hear. baaaaa baaaaa
I am not voting for a liberal who will surround himself with gun grabbing loonies
No, you have made it clear that you want only republican destruction of the Constitution directed toward installing a Nazi styled fascism and will always vote accordingly.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Hey, whatever bush did I dont like. I dislike bush, but know this...he is not a true conservative. He is just following in his fathers footsteps and has someone else telling him what to do.
McCain isnt one either. However I believe in the issues the republican party defends.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yes, he has someone else telling him what to do....the republican party!
It must be clear to anyone that bothers that dubya is too stupid to have done this alone. He is only following the republican mantra. This mess belongs squarely placed at the feet of the republican party and nowhere else.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Any candidate that has a poster of che in their campaign office is someone to worry about. I doubt McCain would ever let such filth be wall posted.
Posted by bdgee on :
Oh, my, God.
We are about to get to book burning any time now!!!!
Hide your copies of Huckleberry Finn and anything that mentions Kinsey.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
or Catcher in the Rye for saying words like "damn" and such...
Posted by bdgee on :
I read an article about a month back by a female republican adviser that said that "Catcher in the Rye" is on their list of "subversive literature".
Seems like they want it removed from school (both high school and college) reading list, because it "lures" kids into antisocial thinking.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
We'll they tried years ago to censor it and such but eventually they failed... here from Wiki:
"In 1960, a teacher was fired, and later reinstated, for assigning the novel in class.[17] Between 1961 and 1982, The Catcher in the Rye was the most censored book in high schools and libraries in the United States.[18] In 1981, it was both the most censored book and the second most taught book in public schools in the United States.[19] According to the American Library Association, The Catcher in the Rye was the 13th most frequently challenged book from 1990–2000.[1] It was one of the 10 most challenged books in 2005, and came off the list in 2006.[20]
The challenges generally begin with vulgar language, citing the novel's use of words like f*ck[21] and "goddam",[22] with more general reasons including sexual references,[23] blasphemy, undermining of family values[22] and moral codes,[24] Holden's being a poor role model,[25] encouragement of rebellion,[26] and promotion of drinking, smoking, lying, and promiscuity.[24] Often, the challengers have been unfamiliar with the plot itself.[18] Shelley Keller-Gage, a high school teacher who faced objections after assigning the novel in her class, noted that the challengers "are being just like Holden ... They are trying to be catchers in the rye."[22] A reverse effect has been that this incident caused people to put themselves on the waiting list to borrow the novel, when there were none before.[27]"
Posted by bdgee on :
If I remember correctly, the librarian (or someone else involved) that Palin tried to get to censor books mentioned "Catcher in the Rye" as one Palin didn't approve of. (She later fired that librarian after the librarian rejected her efforts.)
It sort of sounds like Palin was only trying to pass on and use the power of her office to instill standard republican mantra, which surely seems to be standard republican activity, because we have so many examples of it.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I am more worried about the kind of people who are cultishly attracted to Obama than Obama himself.
Just look at how people on this board react to anything that questions some of his actions.
I would assume you have me in the afore mentioned category CCM. When people stop lying about Obama's agenda then we can have a reasoned debate.
Did you see my note on the other thread that there is no proposed gun and ammo tax on the Obama tax plan? Yet another lie that you have been sold because his opponents know his dislike for guns does not resonate with many conservatives.
Posted by a surfer on :
Since this has turned into the new bashing thread....
Here is a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought down Wall Street.
Franklin Raines was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. At the time of his departure The Wall Street Journal noted, " Raines, who long defended the company's accounting despite mounting evidence that it wasn't proper, issued a statement late Tuesday conceding that "mistakes were made" and saying he would assume responsibility as he had earlier promised. News reports indicate the company was under growing pressure from regulators to shake up its management in the wake of findings that the company's books ran afoul of generally accepted accounting principles for four years." Fannie Mae had to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.
Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear. http://housingdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie-charges/ .. The Government noted, "The 101 charges reveal how the individuals improperly manipulated earnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly neglecting accounting systems and internal controls, misapplying over twenty accounting principles and misleading the regulator and the public. The Notice explains how they submitted six years of misleading and inaccurate accounting statements and inaccurate capital reports that enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafe and unsound manner." These c harges were made in 2006. The Court ordered Raines to return $50 Million Dollars he received in bonuses based on the miss-stated Fannie Mae profits.
Tim Howard - Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie. In everyday English - he was cooking the books. The Government Investigation determined that, "Chief Financial Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate oversight to key control and reporting functions within Fannie Mae,"
On June 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La., asked the Justice Department to investigate his allegations that two former Fannie Mae executives lied to Congress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating the mortgage-finance giant's income statement to achieve management pay bonuses. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004.
Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!
Jim Johnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some interesting things about Johnson. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million." Johnson is currentl y under investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae.
Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines works for the Obama Campaign as Chief Economic Advisor
TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama
JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee
Posted by bdgee on :
Surfer, have you completely managed to miss the now known fact that that Fox news crap is all lies?
Get off the lies. please.
If this has been turned into a "bashing thread" it is a result of the republican hate campaign and ridiculous and lies.
Posted by a surfer on :
"This mess belongs squarely placed at the feet of the republican party and nowhere else."
The #1 biggest line of B.S. I read on this page.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: "This mess belongs squarely placed at the feet of the republican party and nowhere else."
The #1 biggest line of B.S. I read on this page.
Your childish ignorance is showing.
Posted by a surfer on :
Obama will segregate this country more than Rev. Jackson ever thought possible.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: "This mess belongs squarely placed at the feet of the republican party and nowhere else."
The #1 biggest line of B.S. I read on this page.
Your childish ignorance is showing.
Do you want me to dig through the 1000's of childish insults you've thrown around over the past year......gimmie a break.
Posted by bdgee on :
I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: "This mess belongs squarely placed at the feet of the republican party and nowhere else."
The #1 biggest line of B.S. I read on this page.
Your childish ignorance is showing.
Do you want me to dig through the 1000's of childish insults you've thrown around over the past year......gimmie a break.
surfer, you ARE the model of a childish insult. It is all you do. You don't need a break, you need help.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
Posted by a surfer on :
Don't forget....they need segregation.
Without it they are nothing.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
Who was the second reverend you refer to?
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
really?
how bout this guy?
George Corley Wallace Jr. (August 25, 1919 – September 13, 1998), was a Democratic Governor of Alabama for four terms (1963-1967, 1971-1979 and 1983-1987) and ran for U.S. President seven times, running as a Democrat in four times and in the Independent Party three times. He is best known for his pro-segregation attitudes and as a symbol of states' rights during the American desegregation period, which he modified later in life.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
Who was the second reverend you refer to?
Sharpton
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
really?
how bout this guy?
George Corley Wallace Jr. (August 25, 1919 – September 13, 1998), was a Democratic Governor of Alabama for four terms (1963-1967, 1971-1979 and 1983-1987) and ran for U.S. President seven times, running as a Democrat in four times and in the Independent Party three times. He is best known for his pro-segregation attitudes and as a symbol of states' rights during the American desegregation period, which he modified later in life.
OK....stand corrected.....should of said the last 2 decades....
Posted by jordanreed on :
shall I search for more??...
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Don't forget....they need segregation.
Without it they are nothing.
NOTHING??
maybe...they are EQUAL
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Don't forget....they need segregation.
Without it they are nothing.
NOTHING??
maybe...they are EQUAL
Out of context.
Nothing politically.
Jordan 1 of my best friends is African American.
Our families hang out with one another.
I lived with a Haitian family while living in the Abacos.
Posted by jordanreed on :
All of my best friends are humans...I guess that makes me a humanist.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: All of my best friends are humans...I guess that makes me a humanist.
Guess so.
Posted by jordanreed on :
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I had no idea that Jackson had ever tried to segregate this country. And I don't think anyone that claims so honestly is remotely rational. Maybe you should see someone about that problem?
I think you are dreaming up trash. This country is decidedly less segregated than it was years ago, with much thanks going to Jackson and absolutely none due to the republicans, who depend on and have essentially placed all of their weight behind fostering racial bigotry to hold and gain power.
Shows your complete lack of understanding of how the 2 reverends have done more to segregate their own than any other two people in the history of the U.S.
Whoooo-wee...
That evaluation of superior segregationists must have considered Orval Faubus and George Wallace and how many super-dupey-head-supreme-grand- dragons of the KKK (all republicans by the way in this day) and ranks skum of their ilk below black Christian preachers. Thus, I guess you REALLY blame Marti Luther King above and beyond any other segregationist and claim he was un-American and ought to have been deported back to Africa?
Sheeeeeee-iitt, man, I don't think it is my understanding that is screwy and bigoted.
Man, you need to go get some lessons in reality.
(Oh by the way, reverend is an adjective and not a noun. It isn't properly used as a title. It is "the reverend Jackson"....he is revered, not he is a Reverend, much like "the very crude Pat Robertson" doesn't become "Pat Robertson is a Very Crude".)
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Don't forget....they need segregation.
Without it they are nothing.
NOTHING??
maybe...they are EQUAL
Out of context.
Nothing politically.
Jordan 1 of my best friends is African American.
Our families hang out with one another.
I lived with a Haitian family while living in the Abacos.
It is you, surfer, that is out of context. No one here in this thread was spreading racial hatred 'til you laid it on us.
Are you blind to the fact that it is exactly in those states socially tied to racial segregation that is the base of the republican electoral power?
Without that segregationist hatred, the republican party is dissolved into a hand full of backward free market losers on the economic front using high priced lobbyist to twist and turn our economy to their benefit with bribery and blackmail.
We don't need republican sponsored racial trash politics in this Country
Posted by Peaser on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Anyone whos long-time spiritual mentor and pastor turns out to be a rabid, racist, America-hater who claims the U.S. invented AIDS to wipe out black people is questionable in my mind.
"Not God bless, but 'God d--- America!'" -Jeremiah Wright
One would think that any true "minister" would believe that HIV/AIDS more than likely may have come from God, as possibly another plague.
Posted by Peaser on :
Anyone catch Saturday Night Live last night? The references to the current political activities were pretty entertaining.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
I'vw got it taped.
Don' tell me much I have to wait til Mrs. Foot gets home tonight before I can watch it.
Posted by Peaser on :
as for the racial clutter? ssssmells like fear to me...
i expect it's only going to get worse...
there is only one party to blame for the GOP's mess... the GOP's. they blew it big time.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
The word segregation is charged.
Perhaps it would help if you clarified your segregation comments.
Posted by glassman on :
also? the only people to blame for the collapse of wall st is wall st...
nobody made them buy anything...
people who get paid 40 million a year are expected not to make these kinds of mistakes...
the sub-prime mortgages aren't even the main reason wall st collapsed, it's CDS'es and level three accounting tricks that buried them...
Posted by Peaser on :
All are crooks in my book.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Peaser: All are crooks in my book.
i agree...the truth is that crime does pay... wait till they start buying the notes, then we'll know how much Paulson is ripping off of US...
Posted by wallymac on :
I know that these articles are from Rolling Stone but it will be interesting to see who actually takes the time to read them and the ensuing remarks.
Posted by ohio_trader on :
"If you look at how this started with the subprime crisis, it doesn't seem to be a good bet to put your money behind the idea that people with the lowest income and the poorest credit ratings are gonna be able to pay off their mortgages," Kroft points out.
"The idea that you could lend money to someone who couldn't pay it back is not an inherently attractive idea to the layman, right. However, it seemed to fly with people who were making $10 million a year," Grant says.
With its clients clamoring for safe investments with above average return, the big Wall Street investment houses bought up millions of the least dependable mortgages, chopped them up into tiny bits and pieces, and repackaged them as exotic investment securities that hardly anyone could understand.
60 Minutes looked at one of the selling documents of such a security with Frank Partnoy, a former derivatives broker and corporate securities attorney, who now teaches law at the University of San Diego.
"It's hundreds and hundreds of pages of very small print, a lot of detail here," Partnoy explains.
Asked if he thinks anyone ever reads all this fine-print, Partnoy says, "I doubt many people read it."
These complex financial instruments were actually designed by mathematicians and physicists, who used algorithms and computer models to reconstitute the unreliable loans in a way that was supposed to eliminate most of the risk.
"Obviously they turned out to be wrong," Partnoy says.
Asked why, he says, "Because you can't model human behavior with math."
"How much of this catastrophe had to do with the instruments that Wall Street created and chose to buy…and sell?" Kroft asks Jim Grant.
"The instruments themselves are at the heart of this mess," Grant says. "They are complex, in effect, mortgage science projects devised by these Nobel-tracked physicists who came to work on Wall Street for the very purpose of creating complex instruments with all manner of detailed protocols, and who gets paid when and how much. And the complexity of the structures is at the very center of the crisis of credit today."
"People don't know what they're made up of, how they're gonna behave," Kroft remarks.
"Right," Grant replies.
But it didn't stop ratings agencies, like Standard & Poor's and Moody's, from certifying the dodgy securities investment grade, and it didn't stop Wall Street from making billions of dollars selling them to banks, pension funds, and other institutional investors all over the world. But that was just the beginning of the crisis.
What most people outside of Wall Street and Washington don't know is that a lot of people who bought these risky mortgage securities also went out and bought even more arcane investments that Wall Street was peddling called "credit default swaps." And they have turned out to be a much bigger problem. ///////////////// "A credit default swap is a contract between two people, one of whom is giving insurance to the other that he will be paid in the event that a financial institution, or a financial instrument, fails," he explains.
"It is an insurance contract, but they've been very careful not to call it that because if it were insurance, it would be regulated. So they use a magic substitute word called a 'swap,' which by virtue of federal law is deregulated," Greenberger adds.
"So anybody who was nervous about buying these mortgage-backed securities, these CDOs, they would be sold a credit default swap as sort of an insurance policy?" Kroft asks.
"A credit default swap was available to them, marketed to them as a risk-saving device for buying a risky financial instrument," Greenberger says. ///////// "Now, who was selling these credit default swaps?" Kroft asks.
"Bear Sterns was selling them, Lehman Brothers was selling them, AIG was selling them. You know, the names we hear that are in trouble, Citigroup was selling them," Greenberger says.
"These investment banks were not only selling the securities that turned out to be terrible investments, they were selling insurance on them?" Kroft asks /////////// Asked what role the credit default swaps play in this financial disaster, Frank Partnoy tells Kroft, "They were the centerpiece, really. That's why the banks lost all the money. They lost all the money based on those side bets, based on the mortgages." ///////////////// That chapter is not over, and there is much suspense and fear on Wall Street that there are other big losses out there that have yet to be disclosed
They already dwarf what has been lost on those original risky mortgages. As bad as the mortgage crisis has been, 94 percent of all Americans are still paying off their loans. The problem is Wall Street placed its huge bets and side bets with all of those fancy securities on the 6 percent who are not.
"We wouldn't be in any of this trouble right now if we had just had underlying investments in mortgages. We wouldn't be in any trouble right now," says Partnoy.
He says it’s the side bets.
"You got Wall Street firms, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers. You got insurance companies like AIG. Merrill lost a ton of money on this," Kroft says. "Everybody's lost a ton of money. They're supposed to be the smartest investors in the world. And they did it themselves."
"They did it all on their own," Partnoy agrees. "That's the most incredible thing about this crisis is that they pushed the button themselves. They blew themselves up."
. . . repackaged them as exotic investment securities that hardly anyone could understand.
along with...
. . . because if it were insurance, it would be regulated. So they use a magic substitute word called a 'swap,' . . .
In short, fraud.
The designers *and* purveyors should go to jail.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:In short, fraud.
The designers *and* purveyors should go to jail.
Look no further than your friendly federal government. Only the government could call insurance a "swap". The government and their social experimentation has been responsible for this mess from day 1!!!
Posted by bdgee on :
Horse hockey...
The republican party with its no oversight no regulation mantra made this mess.
ALL the big wheels that ran the system and poked a hole in the bottom of the financial boat so it would sink are big time republican Party supporters and operatives, that were acting on republican Party free market mantra and absolute screaming fans of the developing a "permanent republican majority", with Party before Country politics.
No more of your Party line "blame the government" B.S, because since 1994 there has never been a Congress that could pass a non-republican Party sanctioned bill to get it to any president for his signature (a simple majority in the Senate is insufficient to send legislation to the President for his signature [at least 60 % is required and no congress since then has had fewer than 40 republican Party line voters] and anything that doesn't contribute to the development of that "permanent republican majority" is block voted out of existence there by the Party).
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:In short, fraud.
The designers *and* purveyors should go to jail.
Look no further than your friendly federal government. Only the government could call insurance a "swap". The government and their social experimentation has been responsible for this mess from day 1!!!
the truth is exaclty the opposite.
when JP Morgan invented the CDS in the mid 90's it was in fact a regulatory DODGE.
by "insuring" the bond covered with a credit default swap ( only one of several different instruments in the derivatives market) they were able by way of a simple accounting trick to keep LESS capital reserves on hand and leverage themselves more heavily...
the failure of the regualtory system was to not legislate new rules requiring that the issuer of the CDS (the insurer) maintain enough capital to PAY out the "insurance claim" when the insured instrument failed...
all of these attempts to demonise Fannie and Freddie are overblown...
they are not completely wrong, but the subprime mortgage market was just ONE trigger of several that brought down the house of cards...
fannie and freddie are only responsible for about 30% of the subprime mortgage market anyway... all of the Fox "News" calims about how Obamas "freinds" and not McCains lobbyist are to blame is some of the lamest political spinning ever done.
the Treasury is now in the unique position of choosing which banks will fail and which will succeed by selecting who they bail out quickly and who they stall...
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Credit Default Swaps
quote: Originally used as a form of insurance against bad debts, these instruments became a tool for financial speculation when the US Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 specifically barred regulation of these trades.
quote: The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (H.R. 5660 and S.3283) is United States federal legislation which repealed the Shad-Johnson jurisdictional accord, which had banned single stock futures in 1982. The legislation also provided certainty that products offered by banking institutions would not be regulated as futures contracts.
This act was incorporated by reference into H.R. 4577, an omnibus spending bill. It was passed by the 106th United States Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton on December 21, 2000...
The act has been cited as a public policy decision significantly contributing to Enron's bankruptcy in 2001 and the much broader liquidity crisis of September 2008...
The "Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000" [H.R. 5660 was introduced in the House on Dec. 14, 2000 by Rep. Thomas W. Ewing [R-IL] and cosponsored by Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-VA) Rep. Larry Combest (R-TX) Rep. John J. LaFalce (D-NY) Rep. Jim Leach (R-IA) and never debated in the House.[2]
The companion bill (S.3283) was introduced in the Senate on Dec. 15th, 2000 by Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) and cosponsored by Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL) Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) Sen. Thomas Harkin (D-IA) Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) and never debated in the Senate.[2]
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 has received criticism for the so-called "Enron loophole," 7 U.S.C. §2(h)(3) and (g), which exempts most over-the-counter energy trades and trading on electronic energy commodity markets. The "loophole" was drafted by lobbyists for Enron working with senator Phil Gramm[3] seeking a deregulated atmosphere for their new experiment, "Enron On-line".
Several Democratic legislators introduced legislation to close the loophole from 2000-2006[4][5], but were unsuccessful.
In September 2007, Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) introduced Senate Bill S.2058 to specifically close the "Enron Loophole" [6] This bill was later attached to H.R. 6124, the Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008, aka "The 2008 Farm Bill". President Bush vetoed the bill, but was overridden by both the House and Senate, and on June 18th, 2008 the bill was enacted into law.[7]. One specific reason behind its introduction was to address the record high oil prices of the 2000s energy crisis. Since it was enacted, average gas prices of regular unleaded gasoline in the U.S. have dropped $0.357, from their record high of $4.114 on 7/17/2008 to an average of $3.757 as of 9/21/2008[8]
H.R. 4577 was an appropriations/budget bill encompassing the funding for the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education for fiscal year 2001 which had already begun in Sept., 2000.
LOL I guess I quoted nearly the whole article. Worth it though, this is one problem we can't afford to figure out halfway and then get frustrated, throw up our hands, and expect our elected to get us out without our input.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:ALL the big wheels that ran the system and poked a hole in the bottom of the financial boat so it would sink are big time republican Party supporters and operatives,
RIDICULOUS gibberish by the king of gibberish. Both sides caused this mess and you know it. To claim otherwise is simply more of the socialist nonsense that you are always spewing.
quote:No more of your Party line "blame the government" B.S
If you had the same ability to read that you do to spew gibberish, you would know that I don't have a party line. In fact, I have been exceedingly critical of the Republicans and have put most of the blame for this mess on President Bush. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative. Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.
Posted by glassman on :
i've been looking all over for a clear concise explanation of the CDS market, if there is one? i can't find it.
part of the reason for that is that each "contract" is written specifically for the underlying security...
ther eis no centralised clearing house for them, apparently they don't even have cusip#'s...
basically a hedge fund or a bank or even indivdual can and did collect a couple of hundred thousand a year for garanteeing rates of return on bonds...
each contract is negotiated/taylored specifically for the "needs" of the parties of the contract ...
Originally used as a form of insurance against bad debts, these instruments became a tool for financial speculation when the US Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 specifically barred regulation of these trades.
the other thing that crashed the markets is an accounting rule change requiring that all assets be priced based on their actual trading value, and not some arbitrarily convenient value decided by the holders.
these contracts can be made by any party with any other party.
One large difference between credit default swaps and other types of insurance, is you do not need to own the bond or instrument being insured in order to obtain insurance on it. If the bond fails, then, theoretically, you get paid, possibly along with many others. Yet the "insurer" of the bond is not regulated and the transaction is beyond federal or state regulation. This allow speculators to make money by purchasing insurance on a company's bonds and then shorting the stock of the company in great quantity and getting a payoff that exceeds their risk of shorting if the price of the company's stock increases.
and that is why they banned shorting
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:ALL the big wheels that ran the system and poked a hole in the bottom of the financial boat so it would sink are big time republican Party supporters and operatives,
RIDICULOUS gibberish by the king of gibberish. Both sides caused this mess and you know it. To claim otherwise is simply more of the socialist nonsense that you are always spewing.
quote:No more of your Party line "blame the government" B.S
If you had the same ability to read that you do to spew gibberish, you would know that I don't have a party line. In fact, I have been exceedingly critical of the Republicans and have put most of the blame for this mess on President Bush. I am not a Republican, I am a conservative. Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.
I didn't expect you to be able to understand. Even were you capable of handling anything that wasn't spoon fed to you by the RNC, you are too damned single minded to bother to think and, if you were able to think, too selfish and mean to think about anything but your own interest.
The suggestion that you aren't a republican flies about as high as the suggestion that you are not a selfish jerk. Your claim to be a conservative is nonsense, because, philosophically, you are, at best, a 19th century antique of Fagin like persuasion.
I say again,
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY. Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:I say again,
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.
You can say it again; type in in all caps; convert it to gibberish; and shout it from the rooftop. It's still untrue and it's still nonsense.
Posted by glassman on :
Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.
admit it PM, you don't like anything or anybody.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:I say again,
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.
You can say it again; type in in all caps; convert it to gibberish; and shout it from the rooftop. It's still untrue and it's still nonsense.
All right, Fagin, old boy, I will, because it is fact.
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY. Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Today's Republican party consists of a bunch of liberals and today's Democratic party is a bunch of socialists. I don't like either one.
admit it PM, you don't like anything or anybody.
Common, glass..., he's just fighting fire with fire. After all, who likes him?
Posted by Lockman on :
THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.
OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?
Posted by bdgee on :
What I'd truly like is for this bunch to cease to exists and let the republican party return to the responsible party that was before Tricky Dick destroyed its integrity and Bonzo's buddy and intellectual equal loaded it with far right wing religious machinery.
I disagreed with a lot that Everet Dirkson or Barry Goldwater said, but they respected that and WANTED to understand WHY and find a way to use all ideas for the betterment of the people, never resorting to the cheap rattling of religious or racial bigotry, but spoke with the elegant power of the American dream and the Constitution as they are.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.
OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?
Lockman, don't you think it's up to what's left of the GOP to redefine itself?
this whole laissez-faire economic approach has proven itself to be a failure...
i am fully prepared to begin arguing agianst the next admin's policies where i see them lacking or just plain wrong...
this issue of raising taxes stinks to high heaven, but let's be realistic about taxes. the GOP has spent 4-5 trillion$ that have yet to be collected... that's about 1/3 of annual GDP....
no house hold can survive behaving that way...
no nation can either unless they become a fascist nation taking over others and bleeding them dry...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: THIS MESS IS ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF REPUBLICAN PARTY EFFORTS, AS IT HAS COMPLETELY CONTROLLED WHAT CAME OUT OF THE CONGRESS FOR OVER A DECADE, THEREBY MANIPULATING THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT SO AS TO PLACE REPUBLICAN PARTY INTEREST BEFORE THE INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY.
OK Begee, Know that you've made this point what do you want to happen in the future? Dissolve the Republican party? What?
Lockman, don't you think it's up to what's left of the GOP to redefine itself?
this whole laissez-faire economic approach has proven itself to be a failure...
i am fully prepared to begin arguing agianst the next admin's policies where i see them lacking or just plain wrong...
this issue of raising taxes stinks to high heaven, but let's be realistic about taxes. the GOP has spent 4-5 trillion$ that have yet to be collected... that's about 1/3 of annual GDP....
no house hold can survive behaving that way...
no nation can either unless they become a fascist nation taking over others and bleeding them dry...
I see your point I'm just interested in WHAT EXACTLY IS BEGEES POINT! All he ever wines about is how the republican party is at fault for everything in the universe. Ok they are! Now what! Does he ever have any solutions that don't involve bashing the republican party. Does he think Obama and the democratic controlled congress are going to make things better or is he just going to continue to blame every bad thing on republicans and anything good credit democrat's.
Posted by glassman on :
good question, what will a dem controlled govt do?
they'll try to go too far left and make everybody angry at them IMO...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: good question, what will a dem controlled govt do?
they'll try to go too far left and make everybody angry at them IMO...
and then begee will blame it all on those dam republicans.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Probably,
But by the time that happens they will have taken care of a good chunk of the national debt and imposed some restrictions on the unabashed looting of America. If we are lucky we might even see some reduction in the disparity of wage increases between the middle class and the upper class. And maybe just maybe Obama will revoke some of the more controversial signing statements Bush has issued.
Posted by bdgee on :
I answered your silly query, lockjaw. So stop the insulting asinine attacks and THINK!
The idiotic idea that one is disallowed from discovering failure or pointing at it without citing a guaranteed route to perfection is the sort of trash thinking that comes from Ron Ron with his claim that "Government is the problem", which is actually only an admission that one is incapable of plotting a suitable course to success, along with the conceited notion that no one else could be smarter than me, so therefore there is no way.
Right now, and for the last several decades, the vast majority of f-ch-up of in and by the U.S. is the refusal of the republican party to act responsibility and get off the Party first band wagon. If you don't like it, t.s., because that is the fact.
Too, I haven't championed the democratic platform at all, but if you are hide bound to be a Party first republican patsy like you are, you will continue to scream and yell that what isn't parroted from the republican mantra is democratic and continue being an asinine jerk. I know you are habitually restricted from thinking and are trained to not veer off the Party line mantra, but THINK for a change. If one witnessed a car run a red light and end the life of a pedestrian that was strolling across on a green light, you are not an enemy of the driver because you pointed out the guilty party and you are not required to detail how it should be done in the future.
Posted by glassman on :
once Bush is out of office? his signing statemnets don't mean squat. other than that he's an arrogant SOB who thinks he makes thelaws.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Really? I thought they carried over if the next pres so chooses to use them.
Posted by Lockman on :
begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.
Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.
Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?
Well, it seems they must have been House Republicans because they wouldn't pass the bill without those earmarks as shown be their first rejection of the bill. Add the earmarks they wanted, and voila! The bill is passed.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.
Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?
"I'm for disolving the republican party. "
Ha ha ha
One party is what the republicans have been after for decades.
No, we need two parties, one in power (generally, that means holding the presidency) and an opposition party, not for the purpose of stifling the party in power (as is all the senate republican are now doing, in that body), but to assure that it considers all angles of a question before making law. We do NOT, without a parliamentary form of government, need a third part or four or five or......unless we want that chaos that results from no government.
"Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion....."
I think it was Reed, at the insistence of the senate republican bloc. It was one of those necessary compromises.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: begee, your reading this all wrong. I'm for disolving the republican party. Then we can have a one party system that requires the elected officals to be responsable for how they vote and expose them for what they really are.
Example: Who are the senators who tacked earmarks to the most recent 700billion tax payer gutting? Shouldn't we know who they are before passage?
Well, it seems they must have been House Republicans because they wouldn't pass the bill without those earmarks as shown be their first rejection of the bill. Add the earmarks they wanted, and voila! The bill is passed.
Who are they? They should be removed from office.
Posted by ohio_trader on :
how can anyone say anything good about these people, deny the problem they created because it is there folks that make up over 50% of defaulted mortgages, and i know this for a fact,i've been in the business for 15 + years, there people tear up everthing they touch and our pathetic credit risks, these people couldn't even pay rent on time there entire lives, but thought they could own homes,lol
maxine walters i think mcdonalds needs a broom sweeper, gregory meeks you can clean toilets your best qualifications, artur davis another tool- and these idiots run our government- no wonder the u.s. is in so much trouble
Posted by ohio_trader on :
at the end of the video even Bill Clinton acknowledged these people( certain dems) could have stopped the problem, but did nothing and it eventually derailed the entire country
Posted by bdgee on :
Oh, my, spelling has change since I was a sprout. Let me see....
Fishermen bait there hooks.
Dogs wag there tails.
Fish wag there tails too.
Bats use there sonar to find tasty bugs.
- - -
I'm practicing. Gonna take a while but I'll learn, I'm sure.
Do I have to also learn to be biased on class?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is indeed the culprit behind the earmarks. If you want to go farther in depth you would need to look at the earmarks and see who's regions benefit. I do not like him regardless of affiliation and would be happy to see him go.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is indeed the culprit behind the earmarks. If you want to go farther in depth you would need to look at the earmarks and see who's regions benefit. I do not like him regardless of affiliation and would be happy to see him go.
He put them in, but who requested them. Most likely, the ones who voted against the House bill. And, those were Republicans. The trail is not hard to follow IMO.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by ohio_trader: how can anyone say anything good about these people, deny the problem they created because it is there folks that make up over 50% of defaulted mortgages, and i know this for a fact,i've been in the business for 15 + years, there people tear up everthing they touch and our pathetic credit risks, these people couldn't even pay rent on time there entire lives, but thought they could own homes,lol
maxine walters i think mcdonalds needs a broom sweeper, gregory meeks you can clean toilets your best qualifications, artur davis another tool- and these idiots run our government- no wonder the u.s. is in so much trouble
I don't think you can place all the blame on someone who was allowed to take on a mortgage that in the end they could not support.
Farmers where encouraged to take out large loans and expand their farms, then when the crops didn't pan out they lost their farms.
These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.
EXACTLY!
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i've been looking all over for a clear concise explanation of the CDS market, if there is one? i can't find it.
this article might explain it somewhat the came out in the NY Post today:
EX-AIGS ON THE HOT SEAT and... Last updated: 3:52 am October 7, 2008 Posted: 1:32 am October 7, 2008
Former AIG CEO Martin Sullivan and disgraced ex-governor Eliot Spitzer are expected to get the lion's share of blame in congressional hearings today on the AIG implosion.
Former CEO Hank Greenberg claims he could have saved AIG from its $85 billion downfall if Spitzer had not driven him out as head of the company during a political "witch hunt."
The revelation from inside the Greenberg camp came as both he and two top AIG figures were slated to appear before a congressional panel trying to unravel the AIG crisis, which triggered an unprecedented $85 billion government takeover.
Several sources said Greenberg for years had methodically avoided the kind of toxic risk now blamed for wrecking much of Wall Street - the so-called credit-default swaps (CDS) - esoteric bets on whether a company could repay its debt.
"In the 9 months after [Greenberg] left the company, his successors took on more CDS than he ever had in seven years since they first emerged in the market," said one insider familiar with the crisis.
Greenberg was forced out in 2004 as chairman-CEO after then-New York Attorney General Spitzer alleged that Greenberg concocted insurance products to help clients cook their books. No formal charges were filed against Greenberg.
AIG's woes began earlier this year when it wrote off $25 billion in assets - primarily the now-worthless CDS based on junk securities known as collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) created from subprime mortgages.
"It took just nine months to destroy a company that took 40 years to build," said the source.
Greenberg's successor as CEO, Martin Sullivan - who was later fired - is also scheduled to appear today along with AIG's ex-Chairman Robert Willumstad.
Greenberg originally sold a handful of similar CDS between 1995 and 2004 for European banks to cover credit lines among themselves, not risky bets like those based on junk mortgages. Greenberg's sale earned $5 billion for AIG.
"There's no way Hank would have ever taken on such risks that Sullivan did. Hank held weekly meetings with senior management and had intimate knowledge of every detail on investments they made."
"When Martin Sullivan took over, he eliminated those weekly meetings and removed all the controls that Hank had set up.
Another senior insider said: "Marty took his eye off the ball for too long and wasn't paying attention that a train wreck was coming."
Sullivan couldn't be reached for comment.
Posted by glassman on :
These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.
almost all of these mortgages were issued in '03, '04 and '05....
futhermore? fannie and freddie are less than a third of the sub-prime mortgage market...
in other words PRIVATE enterprise did more than 2/3 of the subprime mortgages because they were GREEDY...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: These mortgages were issued under an over active government. Our government should not be in the mortgage business, fanny and freddie should not exist.
almost all of these mortgages were issued in '03, '04 and '05....
futhermore? fannie and freddie are less than a third of the sub-prime mortgage market...
in other words PRIVATE enterprise did more than 2/3 of the subprime mortgages because they were GREEDY...
But who eat them? Once the sub-prime mortgage is given by the bank, fanny or freddie takes responsiblity for them.
Posted by glassman on :
Once the sub-prime mortgage is given by the bank, fanny or freddie takes responsiblity for them.
then why did Countrywide fail? too much talk-radio-tv propaganda floating around out there..
this is axactly why we keep going from the frying pan into the fire...
people assign blame instead of accept it.
70% of Americans still believed Sadam was involved in 911 last election...
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