And raising taxes will be necessary at this point to bring down the deficit. There are significant savings that can be had by reducing the inefficiencies that we have allowed into our systems of business and government but it will not be enough to offset the burden we have incurred thanks to 12 years of Bush.
Raising taxes is the same liberal solution that they have used for years...GUESS WHAT? It doesn't work, never has, never will...lets try something new and innovative like maybe...STOP SPENDING...
Cutting taxes does not work neither... I love how GOP Politicos say they always cut taxes... what they fail to say in the same sentence is they raise something else that hits our wallets anyways to make up the difference... balances out...
I love how DEM Politicos say they will raise taxes to balance the budget...what they fail to say in the same sentence is that they will spend the extra taxes on something else frivolous, that does absolutely nothing for you or I...nor does it EVER balance the budget...balances out
So...if the results are the same, I would rather have the extra money in my pocket to begin with.
The secret formula that neither side wants to entertain here is to STOP SPENDING OUR EFFING MONEY frivolously...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:OK, since you aren't responding, i'll push forward without you:
It not that I wasn't responding, I was sleeping!
How about Exodus 20 (the ten commandments) which includes You Shall Not Murder? Seems pretty simple to me.
quote:It appears you do not believe in abortion but you also believe there should be no aid for anyone. You feel that if someone works two jobs(16 hours or more) at minimum wage is okay as long as you don’t have to pay for the free loaders.
Wrong. However, the big difference between conservatives and socialists is that we believe that people should receive a Hand-UP, not a Handout! In other words, people should be given assistance to become self-sufficient, not put on permanent public assistance. You are absolutely right, I should not have to pay for deadbeats and freeloaders. If they CHOOSE not to work, they should be allowed to live in the street or under a bridge if that's THEIR CHOICE.
quote:I do not know what you think happens to these kids when these single parents have these babies. I take that back you know exactly what happens with these kids in many of these situations, just as you well know what happens to veterans and others that are on the street.
I know EXACTLY what happens to these children. They turn out EXACTLY like their deadbeat parent(s). That is precisely why the current system should be radically altered. People should NOT be GIVEN everything, they should be taught to work and required to work. If they refuse to work, the children should be taken away and ALL benefits stopped. You do NOT help people and their children improve their lives by giving them perpetual welfare. All that does is enslave them in poverty.
quote:I feel most people deserve better and we should help them when ever possible.
What have they done to "deserve" better?
quote:You never answered my question on veterans that are left to rot out there. You think its okay because they deserve it or in your term they deserve no "respect". Remember some of these veterans are on those drugs you talk about.
I think veterans should be given a Hand-UP also, along with all the medical treatment they need.
posted
Take a trip to Denmark and tell them they are stupid and living in a dream land.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:So anytime a child dies it is a crime, yes pm?
Doing anything for the children who die of malaria every year in central and south america?
Doing anything for the children who die of starvation in Africa?
No, everytime a child dies, it is not a crime. That's silly. However, everytime a child is murdered, THAT IS A CRIME! I'm surprised that you don't understand the difference between a someone being MURDERED and someone that dies of a disease or even famine.
Yes, I certainly do support children all over the world.
That's the one of the many problems with the left, they are so screwed up that they don't even understand the difference between right and wrong. When you don't even know the difference between murder and death from an illness, that is problem.
So it isn't wrong that children are dying of a disease that America and Europe have been without for over 50 years?
So it isn't wrong that children starve when we produce so much surplus corn in any given year that we have genetically changed our livestock to be able to ingest it?
You are the one talking right or wrong here so you tell me if this is wrong or right.
Do you believe in birth control? If so than you DO believe in abortion. Birth control works in three ways. 1) It elevates hormone levels to reduce the chance of an ovulation. 2)It thickens the mucus layer around the cervix making it harding for sperm to enter the uterus. 3)It affects the lining of the uterus making it difficult for an egg to attach to the wall of the uterus.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:So it isn't wrong that children are dying of a disease that America and Europe have been without for over 50 years?
So it isn't wrong that children starve when we produce so much surplus corn in any given year that we have genetically changed our livestock to be able to ingest it?
Those are definitely tragedies, that's for sure. However, that is VASTLY different than MURDERING unborn babies. You know that, that is why you keep changing the subject.
[quote]this conflict of free will versus all-powerful, and all-knowing is really tricky stuff huh?[/quote[
There is no conflict. Everyone knows that an unborn baby is a baby. Murdering an unborn baby is murder. Everyone know that. This is a very simple issue - the wacko left condones the murder of unborn babies, the right does not. The left can't even agree that crushing the skull of a full term baby (partial birth abortion) is wrong! Maybe it's just like catching a shrimp (as an earlier poster implied)!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
There is no conflict. Everyone knows that an unborn baby is a baby. Murdering an unborn baby is murder. Everyone know that. This is a very simple issue - the wacko left condones the murder of unborn babies, the right does not. The left can't even agree that crushing the skull of a full term baby (partial birth abortion) is wrong! Maybe it's just like catching a shrimp (as an earlier poster implied)!
once again? you are oversimplifying.
the left wanted protection for the mother included in the law.
the right wanted to score political points and make it possible for you to say things like you are saying.
i have spent several years looking for actual statistics on the specific late-term abortion you are mentioning. i was never able to find any.
IMO it's a myth perpetuated by the Right Reverand Falwells of the world to whip up the ignorant...
mostly? the people i hear calling abortions murder are the ones passing judgement and sentencing doctors at womens clinics to death.
interesetingly enough? if you were to defend your position as biological instead of Religious? we might actually be able to set stricter laws that are very reasonable. No, they would not go as far as you them to, but they would definiteley come closer to protecting unborn children than the Bible does (at one month)...
James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada) was the earliest premature baby in the world. He was 128 days premature (21 weeks and 5 days gestation) and weighed 1 lb. 6 oz. (624 g). He survived and is quite healthy.[31][32]
Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most-premature baby.[33] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation.[34] At birth she was 9 inches (23 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[33] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[33]
the creepy thing about using these stats is that some people will begin to try every heroic effort they can to raise the earliest premature birth they can.
i have drawn blood samples from babies that were only long enough to rest their head on one thumb and their feet on the other while laying in my fully open cupped hands..... i helped save their live doing this but it was scary to do it.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
You said I didn't know the difference between right and wrong PM. You said abortion is wrong. I am asking you if those "tragedies" are wrong. If they are, then they are indeed the same subject. So tell me PM, how is withholding food that we have to spare not murder? How is withholding medicine that we have to spare not murder? How is that RIGHT?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
quote: _________________________________________________ Originally posted by Propertymanager:
"If they CHOOSE not to work, they should be allowed to live in the street or under a bridge if that's THEIR CHOICE". ------------------------
"I know EXACTLY what happens to these children. They turn out EXACTLY like their deadbeat parent(s)". _________________________________________________
I like the way you use "Their Choice" you have no idea about Their Choice but it is and easy way out to rationalize "Your Behavior".
Like i said you know exactly what happens to these kids and veterans.
First the kids. Abortion is wrong but ending up in the streets most of their life is okay.
Veterans that can't work because of their problems from wars should be left to die in the streets. To you able body means they walk and talk.
Yea i know you will twist it the best you can but you know exactly the bottom line i am talking about, just as you know what most others are talking about and twist it.
It's all about you making money. The more that end up in these situations the happier you are.
I'll bet you have no problem taking their check if they are not working. You can not stand it-- all the way to the bank. You really like stomping on people when their down.
I beginning to think it has nothing to do with your experiences since you owned properties. I think it started long before that. Were you picked on as a kid and this is how you get even?
What kind of family did you grow up in?
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
No, I was never picked on, nor did I pick on others. I am not a victim of any sort.
You guys pretend to be compassionate, but in reality are not. The compassionate thing to do is to teach a person to fish, not hand them half a fish once a week, leaving them in poverty. You'll never understand that because you want the government to be your mother and father. You want to be taken care of. Moreover, you think the right thing to do is give people handouts when you should be teaching them to be self-sufficient. Teaching someone to be self sufficient is a much greater gift than giving them scraps.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: No, I was never picked on, nor did I pick on others. I am not a victim of any sort.
You guys pretend to be compassionate, but in reality are not. The compassionate thing to do is to teach a person to fish, not hand them half a fish once a week, leaving them in poverty. You'll never understand that because you want the government to be your mother and father. You want to be taken care of. Moreover, you think the right thing to do is give people handouts when you should be teaching them to be self-sufficient. Teaching someone to be self sufficient is a much greater gift than giving them scraps.
if that is really what you beleive after readin' here for the last few months you don't know us from adam then.
your sense of community is not apparent from any of your posts.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I don't think you get it at all Propertymanager even though it surrounds you most everyday.
If i was a activist fighting for abortion i would want you on the other side fighting against me.
By the statements you have made on this board how could you possibly not be for abortion?
Do you think that kids are suppose to live in misery their whole life because two people had sex and did not use protection... how sad.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Sorry Glassman you said it all. I was writting while you were posting i would have left it there.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Do you think that kids are suppose to live in misery their whole life because two people had sex and did not use protection... how sad.
No, I think your "kill them out of compassion" idea is a lot better. You liberals are too much. You're against fighting radical islam, but you're for murdering unborn babies by the millions. Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
quote: _________________________________________________ Originally posted by Propertymanager:
"If they CHOOSE not to work, they should be allowed to live in the street or under a bridge if that's THEIR CHOICE". ------------------------
"I know EXACTLY what happens to these children. They turn out EXACTLY like their deadbeat parent(s)". _________________________________________________ Quote Iwishihad:
I like the way you use "Their Choice" you have no idea about Their Choice but it is and easy way out to rationalize "Your Behavior".
Like i said you know exactly what happens to these kids and veterans.
First the kids. Abortion is wrong but ending up in the streets most of their life is okay.
Veterans that can't work because of their problems from wars should be left to die in the streets. To you able body means they walk and talk.
Yea i know you will twist it the best you can but you know exactly the bottom line i am talking about, just as you know what most others are talking about and twist it.
It's all about you making money. The more that end up in these situations the happier you are.
I'll bet you have no problem taking their check if they are not working. You can not stand it-- all the way to the bank. You really like stomping on people when their down.
I beginning to think it has nothing to do with your experiences since you owned properties. I think it started long before that. Were you picked on as a kid and this is how you get even?
What kind of family did you grow up in?
_________________________________________________
quote: Iwish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you think that kids are suppose to live in misery their whole life because two people had sex and did not use protection... how sad. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Propertymanager:
No, I think your "kill them out of compassion" idea is a lot better. You liberals are too much. You're against fighting radical islam, but you're for murdering unborn babies by the millions. _________________________________________________
How do you get from the points above to your last statement?
Like i said before twist it the best you can.
You can talk about liberals, being on the left and right etc. not that i know anything about that, but when you talk about letting people die in the streets because they deserve it, then you get my attention.
As far as fighting Radical Islam i can't even give you the credit for a nice try..
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Radical Islam says they are fighting against the radical western Christians who are meddling within their borders.
It's all true...but does that make it right?
Personally I am not against fighting in Afghanistan. I believe Iraq was a mistake and I hold the republican party mostly responsible for that as they are the party who put Bush and his crony's in power.
I am not against seeing that Iraq is rebuilt but I believe that we should give the power to Iraqi's to take the lead in putting their country back together. We finally have the area leaders rejecting (foreign)Al Qaeda and enrolling in the police and National Guard.
***(Something that could have happened years ago if the military had dealt with the leaders who lived there rather than the powerful who had left Iraq when the fighting started.)***
Now it is time to give them the lead and let them recreate their country and only play a supporting role in keeping foreign extremists out. We only need a few token forces in key areas to do that.
As to killing babies...there are less than a million abortions a year now thanks to education and family planning. If we can get under 700,000 (the number of abortions done the first year Roe V. Wade was passed) I'd say we very likely have dipped below the abortion rates we had back when abortions were illegal.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Part of my point about Radical Islam is that i don't think i have ever mentioned one thing about it one way or the other.
Maybe Propertymanager saw something posted i don't remember, but i bet he can't find it.
I do not even know where he was going with his point but then again i am naive about the subject so it's hard to get me going there. But i am sure some others can fill in for me.
If he elaborates maybe we can have an argument.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:I do not even know where he was going with his point but then again i am naive about the subject so it's hard to get me going there.
The point is that the liberals aren't willing to fight radical Islam because of the bloodshed, even though that is protecting our freedom. However, the wacko left is more than willing to murder MILLIONS of innocent unborn childern. Doesn't make much sense to me!!!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:I do not even know where he was going with his point but then again i am naive about the subject so it's hard to get me going there.
The point is that the liberals aren't willing to fight radical Islam because of the bloodshed, even though that is protecting our freedom. However, the wacko left is more than willing to murder MILLIONS of innocent unborn childern. Doesn't make much sense to me!!!
the fallaciousness of this argument is likely to be the downfall of our nation.
i'm deadly serious. we cannot afford to spend 12 BILLION$ a month for ever, there is no winning this type of war.
right now? the ONLY reason the surge is working has NOTHING to do with troop strength.
numbers are meaningless. the reason the surge is working is because they are waiting for US to leave. we cannot spend 12billion$ a month indefinitely. that IS 12billion$? per month we are borrowing from overseas, not even from our own people. we don't HAVE it. you can't keep borrowing from your enemies and remain free.
when interest rates went up? it wasn't just adjustable rate mortgages that have problems. the national debt has problems too...
China has almost totally financed the war in Iraq. that was foolish for US to allow, they are lessening their interest in financing it already.
they are Communist, and they are NOT our friend. they may not be overtly fighting US right now, but their interest is to defeat US monetarily and we've given them all they need to do just that already..
SUN TZU ON THE ART OF WAR THE OLDEST MILITARY TREATISE IN THE WORLD
By discovering the enemy's dispositions and remaining invisible ourselves, we can keep our forces concentrated, while the enemy's must be divided.
[The conclusion is perhaps not very obvious, but Chang Yu (after Mei Yao-ch`en) rightly explains it thus: "If the enemy's dispositions are visible, we can make for him in one body; whereas, our own dispositions being kept secret, the enemy will be obli ged to divide his forces in order to guard against attack from every quarter."]
the Soviets LOST the cold war in Afghanistan.. now BUsh has lost THAT VICTORY for US in Iraq. whether we pull out or stay? the stage is set. we can't win by fighting. we can WIN by making them a strong ally. and that won't come by force. it never has and it never will. don't compare them to the Japanese. the camparison won't fit. Japan is an Island Nation that had NO allies prior to WW2.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:the Soviets LOST the cold war in Afghanistan.. now BUsh has lost THAT VICTORY for US in Iraq. whether we pull out or stay? the stage is set. we can't win by fighting. we can WIN by making them a strong ally. and that won't come by force.
Quite the contrary, Bush is winning in Iraq. We have won the war and we are now winning the peace. Iraqis are taking control of their country and we will pull out over time, unless of course the socialists win and start waving the surrender flag!!!
Where is radical Islam IwishIhad? C'mon! Radical islam is in just about every nation including the United States. It is a direct threat to our way of life.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I think killing them is a good answer. It is a war after all and they are certainly trying to kill us and destroy our way of life!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:the Soviets LOST the cold war in Afghanistan.. now BUsh has lost THAT VICTORY for US in Iraq. whether we pull out or stay? the stage is set. we can't win by fighting. we can WIN by making them a strong ally. and that won't come by force.
Quite the contrary, Bush is winning in Iraq. We have won the war and we are now winning the peace. Iraqis are taking control of their country and we will pull out over time, unless of course the socialists win and start waving the surrender flag!!!
Where is radical Islam IwishIhad? C'mon! Radical islam is in just about every nation including the United States. It is a direct threat to our way of life.
ahh, the surrender flag. yep that's what it is.
diplomacy has never worked before nor will it ever work again?
do you know who Muqtada al-Sadr is? he's the reason we have had a successful surge. do you even know the difference between a Sunni and a Sh'ite? Alqueda is Sunni. The Shia are the Iranians. When you say Islamic terrorists? you don't even know who you are talking about. Neither does Bush i bet.
however, what you are calling success is like having the bleeding stop after both somebodies arms have been cut off.
the Iraq civilian casualty numbers are about halved from what they were last Aug... that means they are down from 1600 month to 700 month... that's not success and that's not winning.
as for our troops? our numbers are back to where the y were in '04...
that's not winning either.
meanwhile? our spending over there has tripled...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
If Canada were to come across the border and start killing teenage boys while saying they are protecting their country from the gang violence that is spreading through Canada due to American gang members who cross their borders would that be ok with you PM?
Would you allow it to happen or would you fight back and tell Canada to get the hell out of our country?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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