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Propertymanager
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the dissatisfaction within the Republican party over McCain shows that a large portion of the Republican base has not learned anything over these last 8 years and if we aren't careful they
quote:
...will continue to ruin this country of ours with reckless abandon as they pursue their personal projects of making sure that gays are discriminated against
NO ONE in the Republican party wants to discriminate against gays. That's ridiculous!

quote:
...vulnerable women are forced into back alleys and out of sight
Even more ridiculous. You want gays to have special rights, but won't even afford unborn babies the right to live!!!

quote:
and proving their manhood with the lives of our young men and women against 2nd world countries who dared to tell the USA to stop blustering in public when our own representatives are deeply involved in the backroom deals that are being defamed.
Killing Al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan is completely justified and a totally necessary action. I know liberals like to think that everyone is good, but that is not the truth. Radical Islam has as one of its goals to KILL the infidels (that's us)! They declared war on us, not the other way around.

As far as Iraq, they certainly DID have weapons of mass destruction. After all, they used them on the Kurds and the Iranians. Every intelligence agency in the world believed he had weapons of mass destruction and Saddam thumbed his nose repeatedly at the world.

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glassman
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Killing Al Qaeda in Iraq

there was NO alqueda in Iraq until we went over there.

Bush knew that. he lied. he lied alot.

i would be willing to vote for ANYBODY that said they were going to get justice for what Dubya has done. (even Hillary, but she voted to invade Iraq so i doubt she would ever take that position)

i don't see anybody making a case for doing it tho.

maybe? we will see it come August. but i'm not holding my breath.

what about Saudi Arabia? they are where most of the 9-11 bombers came from.

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glassman
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As far as Iraq, they certainly DID have weapons of mass destruction. After all, they used them on the Kurds and the Iranians. Every intelligence agency in the world believed he had weapons of mass destruction and Saddam thumbed his nose repeatedly at the world.

where have you been the last three years?

not only is that a bogus statement about every intelligence agency in the world?

there are agencies in our OWN government that did not believe the evidence was there..

read the presidents own report:

http://www.wmd.gov/report/

and when they spoke up? they got "stepped on"...

your and Dubya's defense of "cosnervatism" is why the GOP is about dead. (even tho you admit Bush isn't a "real consevative") [Roll Eyes]

the only chance the GOP has of recovering is for Hillary to run.

the Iraq war was a personal vendetta by Dubya. the evidence is clear as day.

people began telling US all this right away and scared folks told them to shutup and called them liars.

Clarke: 'White House is papering over facts'

Tuesday, March 23, 2004 Posted: 2:39 PM EST (1939 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Former White House counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke will testify Wednesday before a commission investigating the attacks of September 11, 2001. Clarke claims in a new book, "Against All Enemies," that President Bush ignored the terrorist threat before September 11, 2001. Administration officials called Clarke's assertions "flat-out wrong."

CNN anchor Bill Hemmer spoke Tuesday with Clarke, who also says Bush asked him on September 12, 2001, to look for links between al Qaeda and Iraq.

HEMMER: You paint a picture of a White House obsessed with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Why do you believe that was the case?

CLARKE: Because I was there and I saw it. You know, the White House is papering over facts, such as, in the weeks immediately after 9/11, the president signed a national security directive instructing the Pentagon to prepare for the invasion of Iraq. Even though they knew at the time from me, from the FBI, from the CIA that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

HEMMER: The White House says that before they even arrived at the White House, the previous administration was obsessed with nothing. I want you to look at a picture that we saw last week from NBC News -- an Al Qaeda terrorist training camp outside of Kandahar, Afghanistan. They allege, at the time, why wasn't anything done to take al Qaeda out. This was August of 2000. ( Full story)

CLARKE: Well, a great deal was done. The administration stopped the al Qaeda attacks in the United States and around the world at the millennium period, they stopped al Qaeda in Bosnia, they stopped al Qaeda from blowing up embassies around the world, they authorized covert lethal action by the CIA against al Qaeda, they retaliated with cruise missile strikes into Afghanistan, they got sanctions against Afghanistan from the United Nations. There was a great deal the



http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/23/clarke/index.html

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bond006
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I am with you glass I would love to see Bush behind bars he has certainly earned that right.

But wether dem or rep any more they stick side by sideand won't rat the other out.

I like Americans all over this country are just pissed with our leaders atittude of them agaist us.

We as citizens try to follow the law we are taught right from wrong. We believe in our constitution.

Bush has referd to it in the past as just a piece of old paper.

Why as Americans to we humble ourselves to him? Why in Gods name do we let his criminal minority of 25 to 30 percent run things why do we let ourselves be ruled by fear.

It is at the point the tail is waging the dog

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glassman
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wasn't "Oil for Food" abuse one of the "excuses" to invade too? didn't people say that Iraq was cheating with France and Russia?
didn't peopls say that's why France and Russia and germany refused to SUPPORT US in the invasion?

sheesh:



Audit: U.S. lost track of $9 billion in Iraq funds
Pentagon, Bremer dispute inspector general's report

Monday, January 31, 2005 Posted: 0412 GMT (1212 HKT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly $9 billion of money spent on Iraqi reconstruction is unaccounted for because of inefficiencies and bad management, according to a watchdog report published Sunday.

An inspector general's report said the U.S.-led administration that ran Iraq until June 2004 is unable to account for the funds.

"Severe inefficiencies and poor management" by the Coalition Provisional Authority has left auditors with no guarantee the money was properly used," the report said.

"The CPA did not establish or implement sufficient managerial, financial and contractual controls to ensure that [Development Fund for Iraq] funds were used in a transparent manner," said Stuart W. Bowen Jr., director of the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction.

The $8.8 billion was reported to have been spent on salaries, operating and capital expenditures, and reconstruction projects between October 2003 and June 2004, Bowen's report concluded.

The money came from revenues from the United Nations' former oil-for-food program, oil sales and seized assets -- all Iraqi money. The audit did not examine the use of U.S. funds appropriated for reconstruction. (Full story)


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/

i suspect most of his continuing supporters either refuse to believe anything they aren't old by the party, or they are on the payroll themselves...

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glassman
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how did i miss this last week?

Iraqi Threatens to Disband Parliament

By QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA – 5 days ago

BAGHDAD (AP) — The speaker of Iraq's fragmented parliament threatened Tuesday to disband the legislature, saying it is so riddled with distrust it appears unable to adopt the budget or agree on a law setting a date for provincial elections.

Disbanding parliament would prompt new elections within 60 days and further undermine Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's shaky government, which is limping along with nearly half of the 40 Cabinet posts vacant.

The disarray undermines the purpose of last year's U.S. troop "surge" — to bring down violence enough to allow the Iraqi government and parliament to focus on measures to reconcile differences among minority Sunnis and Kurds and the majority Shiites. Violence is down dramatically, but political progress languishes.

Iraq's constitution allows Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, the hot-tempered speaker and a member of the minority Sunni faction, to dissolve parliament if one-third of its members request the move and a majority of lawmakers approve. Al-Mashhadani said he already had sufficient backing for the move from five political blocs, but he refused to name them.

Al-Mashhadani said the Iraqi treasury had already lost $3 billion by failing to pass the budget before the end of 2007. He did not explain how the money was lost.

He blamed the lack of a budget on Kurdish politicians who have refused to back down from a demand that their regional and semiautonomous government be guaranteed 17 percent of national income.

The 17 percent formula for Kurds was applied to past budgets, but some Sunni and Shiite lawmakers sought to lower it to about 14 percent. The argument is that the Kurdish population is closer to 14 percent of Iraq's total than 17 percent as Kurds insist. There has been no census in decades.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gkx-3oYeFwuWKCusr2jrojs98w8wD8UOVS000


yeah the surge is working, but the whole premise of "giving them freedom" is flawed. they don't WANT it..

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glassman
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Iraqi parliament passes 3 key laws
Bill meets part of U.S. demand for benchmarks

By Liz Sly | Tribune correspondent
February 14, 2008


BAGHDAD — In a rare burst of productivity Wednesday, Iraq's parliament bundled together three key laws and approved them as a package, ending months of deadlock in the country's long-stalled political process.

Two of the laws, providing for a general amnesty for thousands of Iraqi prisoners and defining the powers of Iraq's provinces, belong to the set of benchmarks identified by the U.S. Congress to measure the progress of the Bush administration's Iraq strategy. The third, Iraq's delayed $48 billion budget for 2008, is considered vital for the government to continue to function and to start work on much-needed reconstruction projects.

Immediately after the unanimous vote, parliament declared a five-week holiday, deferring for now any further progress toward other key benchmarks such as a new oil law


hmmmm.....

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The Bigfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
[QUOTE] NO ONE in the Republican party wants to discriminate against gays. That's ridiculous!

Then give them the ability to have the same rights as married couples. I don't care what you call it but stability in relationships is a good thing and should be encouraged, not constitutionally banned.

quote:
...vulnerable women are forced into back alleys and out of sight

Even more ridiculous. You want gays to have special rights, but won't even afford unborn babies the right to live!!!

I'd love for every unborn child to have a chance to live! And we are making progress there. Abortion rates have been dropping steadily since 1980 as education and alternatives continue to make headway. If we ban abortions the problem will not go away but every way of monitoring it will. Every method of ensuring these women are presented with options will be gone. Every assurance of a clean safe environment will disappear.

In 1973, the year after Roe v. Wade, there were somewhere between 600,000-750,000 abortions. Do you really think 600,000 women all of a sudden decided it was OK to get pregnant with a child they didn't want?? This was a dark alley that got brought to light thanks to Roe v. Wade and the worst thing we could do is shove it back in the alley with the mistaken impression that we would be protecting anything.


quote:
Killing Al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan is completely justified and a totally necessary action. I know liberals like to think that everyone is good, but that is not the truth. Radical Islam has as one of its goals to KILL the infidels (that's us)! They declared war on us, not the other way around.
The work in Afghanistan was going great until Bush took it in his head that Iraq should be involved. Not only has Al Qaeda reclaimed a lot of Afghanistan as the military tries to clean up Bush's obsession but they have lost many of the Afghani leaders that had stepped up in defiance of Al Qaeda who were ready to lead their country in a new direction.

Your argument is BS revisionist history and you know it.

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glassman
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A Message to the President: Abortion Can Be Safe, Legal and Still Rare
By Susan A. Cohen

For example, abortion is completely illegal throughout Latin America, but abortion rates in Peru, Chile and the Dominican Republic have been estimated to be more than twice the U.S. rate. In Brazil and Colombia, they are substantially higher as well. At the same time, these countries' maternal mortality rates, which are highly associated with unsafe abortion, range from six times to more than 20 times the rate in the United States.

By contrast, in virtually every country in which abortion is legal and also widely available from trained clinicians, abortion-related mortality and morbidity is virtually nonexistent. Moreover, in these countries, abortion rates are by no means necessarily high. Indeed, in some countries in which abortion is not only legal but also very easily accessible to women and even free of charge under a national health insurance system, rates of abortion are among the world's lowest. Countries in this category include the Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Italy.


The Role of Family Planning

It is clear that for individual women and couples having intercourse, contraceptive use is effective in preventing unintended pregnancy. Research indicates that U.S. women using a method of contraception are only 15% as likely as sexually active women using no method to have an abortion. Put another way, contraception reduces the probability of having an abortion by 85%.

More than nine in 10 U.S. women aged 15-44 who are at risk of unintended pregnancy are using some form of contraception. Rather than using abortion as a method of birth control, then, as opponents of family planning proclaim, virtually all sexually active women are trying to prevent an unintended pregnancy. But contraceptive methods are imperfect, as are the people who use them—so contraceptive failures do occur, resulting in unintended pregnancies. For this reason, just over half of the three million unintended pregnancies in the United States each year occur to the 36 million women who are using contraception. But what is really striking is that almost half of the unintended pregnancies, and almost half of all the abortions annually, occur to the three million women who do not use contraception.


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/04/1/gr040101.html

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bond006
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I am a man that does not personaly believe in abortion.

But my personal beliefes have nothing to do with civil law why would I want somebody who wants an abortion to have it in someones basement?

If you look at this issue from the financial side of life stop making giving birth a financial problem, A social hardship. Such as your job is gone when you go back to work.

If you take the financial hardship out of this problem you will find most women would have a child it is just in there nature as women.

Of course get a right wing conservative and they will find all the money they need for war, try to get a dime for health,education,or employment and we are tld there is not enough money

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bond006:
I am a man that does not personaly believe in abortion.

But my personal beliefes have nothing to do with civil law why would I want somebody who wants an abortion to have it in someones basement?

If you look at this issue from the financial side of life stop making giving birth a financial problem, A social hardship. Such as your job is gone when you go back to work.

If you take the financial hardship out of this problem you will find most women would have a child it is just in there nature as women.

Of course get a right wing conservative and they will find all the money they need for war, try to get a dime for health,education,or employment and we are tld there is not enough money

i couldna said it better myself...

the only thing i would add is that anybody who uses abortion as a regular form of birth control is NOT going to be good parent and is likely to create an even greater burden on society in general....

one thing people forget is that a woman that is not allowed to finish her education and become upwardly mobile may eventually not be able to AFFORD to have any more kids in the future.
it may literally be a choice between 1 kid in poverty and three kids in the middle class.

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IWISHIHAD
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quote:
_________________________________________________

'Even more ridiculous. You want gays to have special rights, but won't even afford unborn babies the right to live"!!!

_________________________________________________


Does this mean you do not "believe" in abortion Propertymanager?

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Propertymanager
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quote:
If you take the financial hardship out of this problem you will find most women would have a child it is just in there nature as women.
That's the most ridiculous statement I've seen in a long time. There is NO financial hardship to having a child out of wedlock. In fact, our wacko socialist left so loves the idea that women are encouraged to have more kids via increases in their welfare, Section 8, and other government handouts!!! Wake up!

quote:
Does this mean you do not "believe" in abortion Propertymanager?
I certainly "believe" that the left loves to murder unborn children, if that's what you mean.
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The Bigfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Iraqi parliament passes 3 key laws
Bill meets part of U.S. demand for benchmarks

By Liz Sly | Tribune correspondent
February 14, 2008


BAGHDAD — In a rare burst of productivity Wednesday, Iraq's parliament bundled together three key laws and approved them as a package, ending months of deadlock in the country's long-stalled political process.

Two of the laws, providing for a general amnesty for thousands of Iraqi prisoners and defining the powers of Iraq's provinces, belong to the set of benchmarks identified by the U.S. Congress to measure the progress of the Bush administration's Iraq strategy. The third, Iraq's delayed $48 billion budget for 2008, is considered vital for the government to continue to function and to start work on much-needed reconstruction projects.

Immediately after the unanimous vote, parliament declared a five-week holiday, deferring for now any further progress toward other key benchmarks such as a new oil law


hmmmm.....

Yeah...what do you make of that? Obviously something going on behind the scenes there.

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bond006
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Well property if don't believe in abortion don't get one.

It's that simple to me.

The right will support war for no benifit to the country and support the slaughter of millions of women and childern.

They feel this is ok and moral

As a matter of fact like general Smidly Butler used to say,two time medal of honor winner, they support the blood bath but they niether want to pay for it or fight it.

But when it comes to abortion they will scream to the top of there lungs about a situation that is really none of there business.

Then once the child is born they no longer want to educate it or help it.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
But when it comes to abortion they will scream to the top of there lungs about a situation that is really none of there business.
Murdering unborn babies is everybody's business.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
If you take the financial hardship out of this problem you will find most women would have a child it is just in there nature as women.
That's the most ridiculous statement I've seen in a long time. There is NO financial hardship to having a child out of wedlock. In fact, our wacko socialist left so loves the idea that women are encouraged to have more kids via increases in their welfare, Section 8, and other government handouts!!! Wake up!

quote:
Does this mean you do not "believe" in abortion Propertymanager?
I certainly "believe" that the left loves to murder unborn children, if that's what you mean.

wow, i suppose you JUST want more of them on your own personal section 8 *gravy train*. HOW *PHILANTHROPIC* OF YOU [BadOne]

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
But when it comes to abortion they will scream to the top of there lungs about a situation that is really none of there business.
Murdering unborn babies is everybody's business.
no doubt you beleive Terry Schaivo should have been kept on a ventilator for another 30 years too....

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Propertymanager
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quote:
no doubt you beleive Terry Schaivo should have been kept on a ventilator for another 30 years too....
The Terry Schaivo case has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with murdering unborn babies - nothing.
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jordanreed
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it is your opinion that abortion is the murdering of unborn babies...i think a few people might disagree with you

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The Bigfoot
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So anytime a child dies it is a crime, yes pm?

Doing anything for the children who die of malaria every year in central and south america?

Doing anything for the children who die of starvation in Africa?

Or does your zeal for children's rights only go so far as your vote?

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Propertymanager
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quote:
it is your opinion that abortion is the murdering of unborn babies...i think a few people might disagree with you
What would you call it?
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Propertymanager
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quote:
So anytime a child dies it is a crime, yes pm?

Doing anything for the children who die of malaria every year in central and south america?

Doing anything for the children who die of starvation in Africa?

No, everytime a child dies, it is not a crime. That's silly. However, everytime a child is murdered, THAT IS A CRIME! I'm surprised that you don't understand the difference between a someone being MURDERED and someone that dies of a disease or even famine.

Yes, I certainly do support children all over the world.

That's the one of the many problems with the left, they are so screwed up that they don't even understand the difference between right and wrong. When you don't even know the difference between murder and death from an illness, that is problem.

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jordanreed
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abortion of a fetus under ,i'm not sure' is it fourteen weeks?..is not murder..nor is it a crime..according to the supreme court..they dont call it murder..

but you do...you are clearly wrong..

it is only your opinion that it is murder..the majority of people in the US dont agree with you//as I'm sure you have encountered before..

but why debate this?..a definitive answer will never be fully accepted be either oppossing stance..you are obviously looking for a fight and trying to push peoples buttons...why? doesnt anyone love you?...

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jordanreed
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is shrimping murder? thats the equivalent of a legally aborted fetus..

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jordanreed
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now, I've got to get back to sax practice, so see ya later, boscoe

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Propertymanager
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quote:
is shrimping murder? thats the equivalent of a legally aborted fetus..
Yeah, that's the same. Harvesting shrimp for Long John Silvers is exactly the same as murdering unborn BABIES! You got me there!
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
no doubt you beleive Terry Schaivo should have been kept on a ventilator for another 30 years too....
The Terry Schaivo case has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with murdering unborn babies - nothing.
do you base your definition of murder on Religious reasons or biological ones?

this is a very important question. don't waffle.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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I never waffle. Religious reasons primarily. However, common sense also. It certainly isn't a shrimp, or a kitten, or an alien. IT'S A BABY! To claim anything else is simply nonsense and disingenuous.
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glassman
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OK, Religion is important, i assume you are Christian. Please refer me to the relevant Bible verses. i have read the Bible and i just can't seem to recall them addressing the issue.

however, i do recall that killing in general is frowned upon.

i think that the whole issue is made up by modern religious politicians to garner votes. they most definitely performed abortions as far back as 1000 BC.

they even did brain surgery.

birth control was also available to wealthy women at the time of the building of the pyramids....

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IWISHIHAD
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You live in a fantasy world Propertymanager. You say you believe in what you post i assume you ”believe” from post to post but no longer.

It appears you do not believe in abortion but you also believe there should be no aid for anyone. You feel that if someone works two jobs(16 hours or more) at minimum wage is okay as long as you don’t have to pay for the free loaders.

Where do you think some of these kids are heading under your criteria.

I do not know what you think happens to these kids when these single parents have these babies. I take that back you know exactly what happens with these kids in many of these situations, just as you well know what happens to veterans and others that are on the street.

I feel most people deserve better and we should help them when ever possible.

You never answered my question on veterans that are left to rot out there. You think its okay because they deserve it or in your term they deserve no "respect". Remember some of these veterans are on those drugs you talk about.

But also remember it is guys like them that allowed you the freedoms you have today.

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glassman
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OK, since you aren't responding, i'll push forward without you:

Exodus 21

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.


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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Leviticus 27
Redeeming What Is the LORD's

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels [a] of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel ; 4 and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels. [c] 5 If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels [d] and of a female at ten shekels. [e] 6 If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels [f] of silver and that of a female at three shekels [g] of silver. 7 If it is a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekels [h] and of a female at ten shekels. 8 If anyone making the vow is too poor to pay the specified amount, he is to present the person to the priest, who will set the value for him according to what the man making the vow can afford.


one month? no younger?

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glassman
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Numbers 3
The Levites

14 The LORD said to Moses in the Desert of Sinai, 15 "Count the Levites by their families and clans. Count every male a month old or more." 16 So Moses counted them, as he was commanded by the word of the LORD.



i find it interesting that people of Faith have no Faith in the Lords ability to right a wrong to one without any sin at all. that's paradoxical IMO...

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:


And raising taxes will be necessary at this point to bring down the deficit. There are significant savings that can be had by reducing the inefficiencies that we have allowed into our systems of business and government but it will not be enough to offset the burden we have incurred thanks to 12 years of Bush.

Raising taxes is the same liberal solution that they have used for years...GUESS WHAT? It doesn't work, never has, never will...lets try something new and innovative like maybe...STOP SPENDING...
Cutting taxes does not work neither... I love how GOP Politicos say they always cut taxes... what they fail to say in the same sentence is they raise something else that hits our wallets anyways to make up the difference... balances out...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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