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glassman
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budge, even Mach said that i'm more of a democrat than i realise. he was only wrong in the part about what i realise about myself. i still consider myself a Republican, an Eisenhower Republican.

the Clintons are not good for Democrats. nor are they good for the country. efficiency and intelligence are very important. but not as important as integrity. they lack integrity.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Looks like a fun site, Tex.

But I must warn you, trying to interpret legislative actions and votes as an indication of a legislators intent or philosophy is not so simple. Most floor votes are a matter of pushing or opposing some amendment added to cloud the issues and a vote that is recorded as pro or con may actually be an effort to destroy an attempt via amendment by some other legislator to undermine the stated purpose or function of a bill, thus controlling the end result. Often in the digestion of legislation, the initial presenter of a bill will be recorded as voting against it, which he or she found necessary to do in order to prevent some terribly distasteful thing that had absolutely nothing to do with the intent of the bill from being forced into law.

so what's your alternative, better site?
It isn't that I know of a suitable alternative (and it isn't that I believe some alternative is either required or feasible).

Evaluating the worth or proper function of a legislator probable cannot be quantized. Attempting to do so is like trying to evaluate in some numerical fashion (or once and for all) whether a Cocker Spaniel is a better pet than a Great Dane.

oh, sure it can... let's substitute suitable for better. Then it's simply a matter of a table or checklist: cost of feeding; damage to house; shedding; cost of vet-care; value as watchdog; etc.

By extension, if more voters, in every race, would examine such as CCM proposes, we'd have a much more sophisticated electorate.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
as for Hillary not being anti-gun?

i've provided several pages of BS for you to peruse already but you've forgotten quicker than you read it.
and don't tell me what she said she'll do or won't do.

You provided absolutely nothing plausible or credible, which is the same sad tale of being a republican for several decades now.
then you should re-read it. the first thing i proved? i showed how (at least one of) her supporters really feel.

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles ... that we are unable to think about reality."
-- Bill Clinton, USA Today, 11 March 93, pg. 2A

After receiving the nomination for president, Clinton campaigned against George H. W. Bush, in the fall of 1992. In previous elections, Republicans had garnered success by labeling their opponents as "soft on crime". Democrats had not used gun control in the past as an election issue. Clinton reversed the tide by using gun control as an issue and calling Bush soft on crime for not pushing for the Brady Law or an assault weapons ban.[1] Clinton also strongly endorsed the death penalty.[2] Bush called for " Going after the criminal not the gun owner". Clinton won the 1992 election with 43% of the vote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_policy_of_the_Clinton_Administration


the Clinton Gun ban was titled Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.

you don't seem to be offering me any real defense to support your argument that my claims are BS. once again? i will state that this is not really partisan for me. i'm not "afriad" of the Dems, and i definitely don't hate the Dems. they are Americans just like me, and i've grown up with many of them. i assume th eDems win this presidential election by default as of today and i want to see them make the correct choices.

i want change. i am willing to take risks with the devil i don't know over the devils i do...

that IS the American pioneer spirit still alive.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
budge, even Mach said that i'm more of a democrat than i realise. he was only wrong in the part about what i realise about myself. i still consider myself a Republican, an Eisenhower Republican.

the Clintons are not good for Democrats. nor are they good for the country. efficiency and intelligence are very important. but not as important as integrity. they lack integrity.

You continue to make the mistake of accusing me of evaluating the Clintons. I do not. I evaluate the republicans, as they exist today and promist to remain tomorrow, not yesteryear, and reach the absolute conclusion that they are basically dishonest and fascist to the core and anything or anyone is better than any that would receive sanctification by them.

I do not champion the Clintons and never have.

There is no possible evil they might follow that even approximates that which is guaranteed by submission to the fascist doctrine of the republican party.

The democratic party does NOT demand or get the Party loyalty of do or die Party first doctrine that is the republican party, so any democrat in office is better than any republican.

The notion that McCain is honorable is another sham. He may be more honorable than dubya or some others, but championing the invasion by the U.S. of a sovereign nation on the basis of lies that he knows were lies is to dishonor the Constitution and the American people.

Whatever might be some imagined result of whatever scenario in Iraq, the presence there of U.S. troops is an assurance that the world sees the U.S. as dishonored and dishonest and dangerous. McCain demands we remain in occupation of a land we illegally invaded and destroyed and that is simply empire building, an even more dishonorable pass time.

Reality says that voting "for the man" isn't realistic or even has much hope of providing a suitable leader of a nation. (That shallow thinking and propaganda gave us dubya.) Thus, I do not evaluate any candidate as good or bad, only the chance of his party appropriately presiding over the nation. This edition of republicans, which uniformly has declared it intends to remain on the course it is on, has quite disastrously proved it is not willing or capable of leading a non-fascist government of a free people, in honor and without secrecy asa tool to hide the truth.

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bdgee
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"Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994", was not and is not a "gun ban".
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T e x
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Holy moly, here's a part of that Act I never knew a thing about:

quote:
Urban Recreation For At-Risk-youth
Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Interior
for localities to provide recreation facilities and services in areas with
high crime rates and to provide such services in other areas to
at-risk-youth. $4.5 million authorized.

Dang...I coulda used a chunk of that...

Here's a summary of the act:

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/billfs.txt

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
"Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994", was not and is not a "gun ban".

i agree.

BUT?

it was presented as such by the Clintons. and much celebration took place.

for about a month, till they realised how screwed up it was..

what a joke? it banned bayonnetes on guns.. LOL..

when was the last time somebody got killed by bayonnette? WW2?

McCain demands we remain in occupation of a land we illegally invaded and destroyed and that is simply empire building, an even more dishonorable pass time.

i don't think McCain can win unless he runs against Hillary...

i won't vote FOR him myself, but i will vote against Hillary, as will about 10 million others like me...
then you have a 50/50 split.. and whoever Diebold picks will win...

Hillary carries too much baggage with her.

and alot of it is not good.

even the media called Slick Willie the Teflon President for a reason....

it isn't because everything thrown at him was BS. it because he somehow escaped all the trouble he DESERVED.

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Propertymanager
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it banned bayonnetes on guns.. LOL..

Darn! I'm not taking the bayonette off my handgun!

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bdgee
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Originally posted by bdgee:
"Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994", was not and is not a "gun ban".

"it was presented as such by the Clintons. and much celebration took place." is false. Neither of the Clintons characterized that act as banning guns and neither proposed to ban guns, then or now.

That act seriously restricts specific fully automatic weapons that have exterior magazines and those that have inboard magazines that hold more than 5 rounds, but even then it is not a strict ban on even those guns.

It was NOT a bill pushed through Congress by or sponsored by either of the Clintons. It is an absurdly impractical and superfluous bill. Maybe the Clintons knew exactly what they were doing in claiming it was effective, as it has quieted the clamor of the anti-gun extreme, who seem, foolishly, to think it accomplishes something toward their dream.

To my knowledge, no one in any federal position that might actually be effective or have influence on the question, has ever proposed a "gun ban". Should some day some such official actually have the foolish gall to so propose, I am certain he would be laughed at, unless there is in the meantime an amendment to the Constitution changing the 2nd Amendment (which is about as likely as casual vacation trips to the dark side of the moon in our lifetime.

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T e x
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"i don't think McCain can win unless he runs against Hillary..."

lmao...did you hear Coulter say if McCain wins, she'll not only vote for Hillary but also work in the campaign? They're scrambling like rats...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Propertymanager
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No, the right is not scrambling like rats. As a conservative, I'm not voting for McCain either. If I can hold my nose long enough, I will vote for either Billary or Barak, if not, then I won't vote for President, but I will vote for other conservatives and for local issues.

I would MUCH rather have the country crash and burn under a socialist like either Billary or Barak, than to have it crash and burn under a President that is PRETENDING to be a conservative.

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bdgee
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If you vote for Hillary, you will vote for a conservative, even if your interpretation of "conservative" is so childish and limited as to be controlled by the far right-wing hate mongers that don't understand what a "conservative" is and incorrectly, intending to inflict damage, label the Clintons as "liberal", which they are definitely not.

This country, in the sense of responsibility and American values and its tradition of freedom and rights of the people, has already crashed under the directorship (dictatorship?)of those you champion.

(I don't think the implication you spit out, that McCain is not a "conservative" is even slightly viable. The trouble you have is that you fail to understand what a conservative is and that disagreement with the voices of far right-wing evangelical extremist radio talk show mentality neither constitutes a failure to be patriotic or a failure to be Conservative. McCain is and always has been what a true conservative should be and he should be respected for that. A true conservative is NOT a puppet of the radical extremes.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
McCain is and always has been what a true conservative should be and he should be respected for that.
If you like McCain, he couldn't be anything other than a liberal.
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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
"i don't think McCain can win unless he runs against Hillary..."

lmao...did you hear Coulter say if McCain wins, she'll not only vote for Hillary but also work in the campaign? They're scrambling like rats...

Glass?

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
"i don't think McCain can win unless he runs against Hillary..."

lmao...did you hear Coulter say if McCain wins, she'll not only vote for Hillary but also work in the campaign? They're scrambling like rats...

Glass?
yes i saw her say that. if Anne really is a woman? i'll be surprised. have you checked out her adams apple?

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Propertymanager
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Unless there is a world crisis before the election, the democrats are going to win the Presidency. Millions of Republicans will NOT support the left-leaning John McCain. Why vote for a "republican" that is really a democrat. If the next president is going to destroy the country (they are), I'd just as soon a democrat be leading the way.

After hearing Obama's speech last night, I'm absolutely sure that he will finish the job of bankrupting the United States (George Bush did a very good job of starting this process).

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
it banned bayonnetes on guns.. LOL..

Darn! I'm not taking the bayonette off my handgun!

I know right?


ALSO

What is bad is how are you going to blame weapons for the actions of a human? Seems to be a quick to rush to idea for some. Its like: "Hey! crips and bloods are in a big fight this year...MUST BE WINCHESTERS FAULT!" SUE!

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Unless there is a world crisis before the election, the democrats are going to win the Presidency. Millions of Republicans will NOT support the left-leaning John McCain. Why vote for a "republican" that is really a democrat. If the next president is going to destroy the country (they are), I'd just as soon a democrat be leading the way.

After hearing Obama's speech last night, I'm absolutely sure that he will finish the job of bankrupting the United States (George Bush did a very good job of starting this process).

you know what is sad about this statement?

you've already de-coupled yourself from reality.
McCain is winning the GOP votes by a huge margin ALREADY so the voters have spoken loudly.

the fact is that the "consrvatives" you speak of are a distinct minority in the US... they occupy about same demographic niche size as the gay population does.

Bush and Rove already HAVE DESTROYED the GOP. it's up to the GOP to figure out how it's going to recover.

whether the US recovers from Bush Rove and Cheney is not really up to the politicians. it is up to the people.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
McCain is winning by a huge margin ALREADY so the voters have spoken loudly.
McCain is only winning by a large margin because Romney and Huckabee split the remaining republican vote. McCain certainly does not have a mandate even from the Republican party, let alone the nation. I would much rather have Billary or Barak than McCain, and I think many conservatives feel the same.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
McCain is winning by a huge margin ALREADY so the voters have spoken loudly.
McCain is only winning by a large margin because Romney and Huckabee split the remaining republican vote. McCain certainly does not have a mandate even from the Republican party, let alone the nation. I would much rather have Billary or Barak than McCain, and I think many conservatives feel the same.
that's BS. Huckabee is a nut, i like him as neighbor, but if you really listen? he's a commie and we don't want him for a president..

Romney changes his colors to match whatever the wallpaper is in the office he wants.

McCain beat them both together add up the votes.

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Propertymanager
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that's BS.

I don't think so. Did you watch the returns last night. Huckabee won big against McCain in a one to one matchup.

In addition, Tex posted some statistics in another post. That post basically said (I'm not quoting here bdgee) that only 34% of the conservatives voted for McCain.

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bdgee
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"Did you watch the returns last night. Huckabee won big against McCain in a one to one matchup."

That BS doesn't extrapolate to places that "became republican" only after the civil rights movement began to succeed, i.e., that switched parties in hope to find a "king's-x" from integration.

Clearly, you are confused about what a "conservative" might be.

These votes are pre-convention.....primaries and caucuses....test and experimental votes to PICK a route for the parties to travel, thus, their "demographics" ARE NOT definitive.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
That BS doesn't extrapolate to places that "became republican" only after the civil rights movement began to succeed, i.e., that switched parties in hope to find a "king's-x" from integration.
What in the world are you talking about? I don't recall any question about civil rights or integration. The question was whether McCain is the choice of the (modern day) conservatives and the answer is no. Even Tex's reference showed that.
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bdgee
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I should have known I couldn't expect you to be able to handle such a terribly difficult thing as a second degree implication.

Accept my sincere apology, please.

(Good thing I didn't open the possibility of considering the effect of voter fraud and racial disenfranchisement too. Hell, that is at least third level.)

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ohio_trader
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too much info to post-- but the other clinton, mr's lies are also a part of history

The decades long history of Clinton lies and scandal are well documented. From Charlie Trie to Norman Hsu, from Gennifer Flowers to Monica Lewinsky, to pardons for Marc Rich and Puerto Rican terrorists.

but i will say they are better at lying than bush, they are more honed and skilled at blatant lying, bush lies and his lips quiver

*** we should hookup a high voltaged taser to our president with a lie detector built in***

every lie they speak and ZAP.....

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bdgee
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I didn't intend to suggest it would be acceptable for you to continue to post slanders and planted rumors from the far right-wing talk show radio waves as if they were credible or even possible. I said present 5 PROVABLE lies she has told. I notice you haven't managed that. Your bias is all you prove with that line of BS and slander.
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ohio_trader
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can anyone refute all of these.. please attempt to

Including: the savage beating/almost murder of Gennifer Flower’s neighbor (Gary Johnson – 6/26/92), criminal harassment campaigns on Kathleen Willey (1997-98 car vandalism, stole or killed her cat Bullseye, witness tampering), Liz Ward Gracen (who Bill probably raped [1983] while she was Miss America – harassed/threats, 1997), Gennifer Flowers (break-ins, threats, 1992), Sally Perdue (car vandalism, threats, 1992), Bobbie Ann Williams (break-in), Christy Zercher (a flight attendant, groped 1992, break-in, 1994), Patrick Knowlton (extreme harassment campaign Oct. 1995; witness tampering), Suzi Parker (a journalist harassed off Arkansas tainted prison blood scandal 1999, fearing for her life), Connie Hamzy (lying campaign, 1991) and Juanita Broaddrick (raped by Bill 1978, break-in and IRS audit when she went public in 1998). It is not a stretch to say that Hillary, Bill and Buddy Young may have organized the murder of their former contract employee Jerry Parks on 9/26/93 because he knew too much about the Clintons.
Hillary and Bill were well on the way to crucifying Monica Lewinsky as an unstable *******, liar and fantasist - – and would have done so if Bill’s semen had not be found on Monica’s blue dress. Hillary’s private eyes were already digging into Monica’s past, when the real story was the Clintons’ criminal track record.
Additionally, biographer Roger Morris describes a vicious sexual assault by Bill on a woman (around 1980) on p.238 in his book Parters in Power. Journalist Michael Isikoff details a extremely crude sexual advance by President Bill in 1996 on a lady married to a Democratic VIP on p.162 of his book Uncovering Clinton. Additionally, pervert Bill exposed himself to Paula Jones in May, 1991 and also to Carolyn Moffet in 1979.
Other Clinton dysfunctions include Bill’s cocaine addiction as governor, Hillary’s lesbianism and the fact that Chelsea is probably the seed of Webb Hubbell, NOT Bill Clinton. Bill’s only offspring is probably Danny Williams, the product of deadbeat dad Bill’s orgies with (no condoms) drug-addicted street hooker Bobbie Ann Williams and her girlfriends back in 1983-84. Bill paid $200 to Gennifer Flowers so she could have an abortion in Jan., 1978, just 3 months before Bill’s double rape of Juanita Broaddrick on 4-25-78. Bill severely bit Juanita’s lip to disable her during the rapes. Also, wild Bill, brother “Roger the Dodger” and best friend Dan Lasater were partying with high school girls and providing them cocaine when Bill was governor in the early 1980’s.
And, of course, there is Hillary’s long and intense affair with Vince Foster who was her emotional husband while Bill was screwing everything in sight. Hillary has a long record of fomenting domestic violence with Bill. The Secret Service, fed up with this insanity, leaked to the press Hillary smashing a lamp during an argument with Bill. Hillary has often thrown objects at victim Bill.
Hillary has used criminal tactics such as a secret police and illegal IRS audits to go after both political enemies and Bill’s sex victims and girlfriends. It was probably Clintons’ FBI who put a rotating harassment team of 25 people on Patrick Knowlton, a witness in the Vince Foster investigation, on October 26, 1995, and continuing for a week. What the Clintons did to Patrick Knowlton was Clinton street fascism as well as witness tampering.
This was a prelude to the intimidation campaign waged on Kathleen Willey in 1997-98 before her deposition in the Paula Jones case. Paula Jones who Bill exposed himself to, rape victim Juanita Broaddrick, probable rape victim Liz Ward Gracen, and mistress Gennifer Flowers all got audited by Clintons’ IRS in the late 1990’s.
Floyd Brown’s offices were burglarized in 1992 and only his Clinton files were stolen. Brown’s private phone conversations were illegally wiretapped by Hillary’s goon Jack Palladino. Another one of Hillary’s thugs, Anthony Pellicano is in jail in LA for the same kind goon tactics he did for the Clintons in 1992.
Clinton biographer Emmett Tyrrell also had his offices twice broken into and his NY apartment invaded once. The manuscript of Tyrrell’s book Boy Clinton was stolen when he couriered it to Robert Novak for a blurb. Clintons thugs tried to intimidate 2 of Tyrrell’s researchers in Little Rock.
Also, at least one independent counsel in the 1990’s took to carrying a gun after being harassed by Clinton goons in yet another intimidation event.

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Propertymanager
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Ohio Trader,

You can't ask bdgee anything of substance and expect him to reply with anything more than 3rd grade insults. He's said many times that he doesn't have any answers or ideas and therefore can't be expected to give a rational answer to anything.

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ohio_trader
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also-the clinton body count

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.html

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ohio_trader
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i am not defending either bush on here, never have

but the clintons are no better, and probably worse

you can either see the big picture or you can't

you can either put a big puzzle together or you can't


**** the rock band green day( just a dumb rock band,sic...even knows)

American Idiot by Green Day

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media.
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind**** America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information nation of hysteria.
It's going out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.


>pure mock of the masses

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bdgee
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Then stop posting the crap and slander you get off the Limbaugh show and other similar right-wing sources of hate and dishonest propaganda.

It isn't true and, though you certainly have the right to your opinion, the constant posting and reposting of that bunch of insulting and slanderous lies, clearly intended to demean Hillary Clinton and have negative influence on her election hopes, is long passed old.

We know what you think.

ENOUGH! already.

Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thinkmoney
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stop being the idiotic dog yu are bdgee-

it isamusing to watchyou go off on those who ar not the liberal nut you are - too bad you canonly get offthis way - you are the idiot of the left -

and - yu also show what anydecent folk dont eant- yo uactually succeed in painting yourself and the liberal left as lunatics - great job in ya success cause ya instilled a dislike for the left - ya showw how insulting and ugly the liberal left is - in attacking the conservatives consistantly ya show how hateful ya are -lol -

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thinkmoney
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so keeep insultin cause your true colors come out - insult the conservatives who value family , fight for all the lunatics and the leftie you are- until i saw your posts - i had no opinion of the liberal left- ya proved how idiotic ya are-
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thinkmoney
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IDIOT Bdgee- lol

the leftie who insults anyone who isnt the leftie he is --

Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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