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Author Topic: Dow Sinks 226 on Mortgage Market Worries
The Bigfoot
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Is today the day we see 12,000s again?

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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glassman
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not yet.

the hedge funds are at war. that's what you are seeing.
they are trying to decide who is the smartest.

fun to watch as long as you aren't the rat caught in the middle of the pitbull fight

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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rimasco
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I agree, the hedgies are trying to straddle this mess

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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rimasco
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wow, not good.... I didnt fall for that suck job at 3:15 [Wink]

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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IMAKEMONEY
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[Cool] [Big Grin] [Eek!] [Cool] [Big Grin] [Razz]

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LIFE IS 10% HOW YOU MAKE IT AND 90% HOW YOU TAKE IT!

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glassman
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so imake are you having fun in this market?

i am not doing anything aggressive. i am enjoying the show for now.

if we end the year 8% up i'll be surprised, but i think we'll still end the year up more than 5%.

our gas prices are going up a nickel a day in our area....
IMO? if we hit 4$/gallon national avg? the recession be "on"

--------------------
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a surfer
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Just paid 3.19 for regular

Hearing more about short sales on property than ever before.

55% of the local realtors are floundering and won't make it another 6 months.

Recession is in full swing IMO.

Another thing I have noticed is that groceries have easily tacked on an average of 10-20 % in the past year.

At least silver is rallying....

Hold on to your $$$$ folks...

Cash is king,

and silver, real silver that is.... not that paper backed crap.

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glassman
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i like silver too.

i'm not letting go till it really runs, i'm not thinking about selling before forty or fifty. if China gets to buying gold? we'll see it in year or two...

glad you made it thru the fires OK surf.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
well Rimasco you there? or did you take the rest of the year off...

DOW down 340 with about 15 minutes to go...

Ive been really busy with all the volatility. Its so hard to hold these things short. I pretty much gave up and just look for bounces. Unless I see something ideal like CROX.

I shorted BIDU the other day got my ass handed to me.... now look at it

dude, unless you are running some serious analytical trading software, you are not likely to end up happy right now.

the reactions i've been seeing are crazy. CROX? cramer said CROX went up cuz of the new SHO rules and then when everybody covered they came in under analysts estimates... who the hell wears those things anyway? [Big Grin] ...

take a look at BID for along play tomorrow...

they failed to sell a Van Gogh and the pps tanked?

Sotheby's Morning Art Sale Totals $34.8 Million, Below Estimate
November 8, 2007 16:42 EST -- Sotheby's 3 1/2-hour morning sale of Impressionist and modern art totaled $34.8 million today in New York, below the $37.9 million low estimate and down more than a third from $58.7 million at a comparable sale in May.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conews&tkr=BID:US

i guess the middle easterners or the Russkies aren't Van Gogh fans huh? LOL...

BID looking good [Wink]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Highwaychild
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
so imake are you having fun in this market?

i am not doing anything aggressive. i am enjoying the show for now.

if we end the year 8% up I'll be surprised, but i think we'll still end the year up more than 5%.

our gas prices are going up a nickel a day in our area....
IMO? if we hit 4$/gallon national avg? the recession be "on"

I hear it's going to be $4 next summer. Prices just topped an all time high around here, and that was after Katrina hit("George Bush hates back people")...And I haven't heard of any damn hurricane hitting the U.S. this year!

I also hear that they are breaking even at $27 a barrel of oil, and here they are sitting on around $100?!?WTF!

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glassman
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i think tomorrow is the day oil hits 100$....

electricity dropped big time today [Big Grin]



ELECTRICITY ($/megawatt hour)
PRICE* CHANGE % CHANGE TIME
Mid-Columbia, firm on-peak, spot 50.32 -10.11 -16.73 11/20
Palo Verde, firm on-peak, spot 41.38 -4.09 -8.99 11/20
Bloomberg, firm on-peak, day ahead spot/West Coast 48.74 -8.76 -15.24 11/20


http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/energyprices.html

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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ohio_trader
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Imploded" Lenders:
189. Webster Bank (Wholesale)
188. Fieldstone Mortgage Company
187. Tribeca Lending Corp. (Wholesale)
186. WAMU Comm. Correspondent
185. Marlin Mortgage Company
184. Countrywide Specialty Lending
183. UBS Home Finance
182. MortgageIT-DB (Retail)
181. Edgewater Lending Group
180. ResMAE Mortgage Corp.
179. Citimortgage Correspondent (2nds)
178. AMC Lending
177. Southern Star Mortgage (Wholesale)
176. Liberty American Mortgage
175. Exchange Financial (Wholesale)
174. FirstBank Mortgage
173. Bank of America (Wholesale)
172. Diablo Funding Group Inc.
171. Honor State Bank
170. Spectrum Financial Group
169. National City - Home Equity, Correspondent
168. Priority Funding Mortgage Bankers
167. BrooksAmerica Mortgage Corp.
166. Valley Vista Mortgage
165. New State Mortgage Company
164. Summit Mortgage Company
163. WMC
162. Paragon Home Lending
161. First Mariner Wholesale
160. The Lending Connection
159. Foxtons, Inc.
158. SCME Mortage Bankers (Wholesale)
157. Aapex Mortgage (Apex Financial Group)
156. Wells Fargo (various Correspondent and Non-prime divisions)
155. Nationstar Mortgage
154. Decision One (HSBC)
153. Impac Lending Group (Wholesale)
152. E-Trade Wholesale Lending
151. Long Beach (WaMu Warehouse/Correspondent)
150. Expanded Mortgage Credit Wholesale
149. The Mortgage Store Financial
148. C & G Financial
147. CFIC Home Mortgage
146. BrokerSource (BSM Financial - Wholesale)
145. All Fund Mortgage
144. LownHome Financial
143. Sea Breeze Financial Services
142. Castle Point Mortgage
141. Premium Funding Corp
140. Group One Lending
139. Allstate Home Loans / Allstate Funding
138. Home Loan Specialists (HLS)
137. Transnational Finance Wholesale
136. CIT Home Lending
135. Capital Six Funding
134. Mortgage Investors Group (MIG) - Wholesale
133. Amstar Mortgage Corp
132. Quality Home Loans
131. BNC Mortgage (Lehman)
130. Accredited Home Lenders, Home Funds Direct
129. First National Bank of Arizona (FNBA) Wholesale, Correspondent
128. Chevy Chase Bank Correspondent
127. GreenPoint Mortgage - Capital One Wholesale
126. NovaStar (Wholesale), Homeview Lending
125. Quick Loan Funding
124. Calusa Investments
123. Mercantile Mortgage
122. First Magnus
121. First Indiana Wholesale
120. GEM Loans / Pacific American Mortgage (PAMCO)
119. Kirkwood Financial Corporation
118. Lexington Lending
117. Express Capital Lending
116. Deutsche Bank Correspondent Lending Group (CLG)
115. MLSG
114. Trump Mortgage
113. HomeBanc Mortgage Corporation
112. Mylor Financial
111. Aegis
110. Alternative Financing Corp (AFC) Wholesale
109. Winstar Mortgage
108. American Home Mortgage / American Brokers Conduit
107. Optima Funding
106. Equity Funding Group
105. Sunset Mortgage
104. Nations Home Lending
103. Entrust Mortgage
102. Alera Financial (Wholesale)
101. Flick Mortgage/Mortgage Simple
100. Dollar Mortgage Corporation
99. Alliance Bancorp
98. Choice Capital Funding
97. Premier Mortgage Funding
96. Stone Creek Funding
95. FlexPoint Funding (Wholesale & Retail)
94. Starpointe Mortgage
93. Unlimited Loan Resources (ULR)
92. Freestand Financial
91. Steward Financial
90. Bridge Capital Corporation
89. Altivus Financial
88. ACT Mortgage
87. Alliance Mortgage Banking Corp (AMBC)
86. Concord Mortgage Wholesale
85. Heartwell Mortgage
84. Oak Street Mortgage
83. The Mortgage Warehouse
82. First Street Financial
81. Right-Away Mortgage
80. Heritage Plaza Mortgage
79. Horizon Bank Wholesale Lending Group
78. Lancaster Mortgage Bank (LMB)
77. Bryco (Wholesale)
76. No Red Tape Mortgage
75. The Lending Group (TLG)
74. Pro 30 Funding
73. NetBank Funding, Market Street Mortgage
72. Columbia Home Loans, LLC
71. Mortgage Tree Lending
70. Homeland Capital Group
69. Nation One Mortgage
68. Dana Capital Group
67. Millenium Funding Group
66. MILA
65. Home Equity of America
64. Opteum (Wholesale, Conduit)
63. Innovative Mortgage Capital
62. Home Capital, Inc.
61. Home 123 Mortgage
60. Homefield Financial
59. First Horizon Subprime, Equity Lending
58. Platinum Capital Group (Wholesale)
57. First Source Funding Group (FSFG)
56. Alterna Mortgage
55. Solutions Funding
54. People's Mortgage
53. LowerMyPayment.com
52. Zone Funding
51. First Consolidated (Subprime Wholesale)
50. EquiFirst
49. SouthStar Funding
48. Warehouse USA
47. H&R Block Mortgage
46. Madison Equity Loans
45. HSBC Mortgage Services (correspondent div.)
44. Sunset Direct Lending
43. Kellner Mortgage Investments
42. LoanCity
41. CoreStar Financial Group
40. Ameriquest, ACC Wholesale
39. Investaid Corp.
38. People's Choice Financial Corp.
37. Master Financial
36. Maribella Mortgage
35. FMF Capital LLC
34. New Century Financial Corp.
33. Wachovia Mortgage (Correspondent div.)
32. Ameritrust Mortgage Company (Subprime Wholesale)
31. Trojan Lending (Wholesale)
30. Fremont General Corporation
29. DomesticBank (Wholesale Lending Division)
28. Ivanhoe Mortgage/Central Pacific Mortgage
27. Eagle First Mortgage
26. Coastal Capital
25. Silver State Mortgage
24. ECC Capital/Encore Credit
23. Lender's Direct Capital Corporation (wholesale division)
22. Concorde Acceptance
21. DeepGreen Financial
20. Millenium Bankshares (Mortgage Subsidiaries)
19. Summit Mortgage
18. Mandalay Mortgage
17. Rose Mortgage
16. EquiBanc
15. FundingAmerica
14. Popular Financial Holdings
13. Clear Choice Financial/Bay Capital
12. Origen Wholesale Lending
11. SecuredFunding
10. Preferred Advantage
9. MLN
8. Sovereign Bancorp (Wholesale Ops)
7. Harbourton Mortgage Investment Corporation
6. OwnIt Mortgage
5. Sebring Capital Partners
4. Axis Mortgage & Investments
3. Meritage Mortgage
2. Acoustic Home Loans
1. Merit Financial


ALL OUT OF BUSINESS

http://ml-implodedotcom

AND THE
Ailing/Watch List Lenders:
11. Countrywide Financial
10. ComUnity Lending
9. Secured Bankers Mortgage Company (SBMC)
8. Delta Financial Corp
7. Meridias Capital
6. Option One
5. Ocwen Loan Servicing
4. Doral Financial Corp.
3. Evergreen Investment/Carnation Bank
2. Coast Financial Holdings, Inc.
1. Residential Capital, LLC*

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ohio_trader
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within 10 years your loan will most like go through the government, thats the way they want it, absolute control, no competition

wall street journal last week...80% of mortgage lenders form 1 year ago are no longer in business....WOW 80%, can you imagine this drastic change in any other large industry within 1 year

THIS IS GOING TO SEVERELY IMPACT THIS COUNTRY !

and it is not nearly over

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are getting crushed

there will not be as many new homeowners in the future, nor ever again probably in this country!

our dollar is getting worthless, and big business is crumbling
ie general motors wrote off $39 billion last week

THIRTY_NINE BILLION DOLLARS- how will they recoup that?

and the midwest like other parts of the country are in ruin!

good job by the federal and state and local governments/and corporations- this country is one flush from going down the shi**er for good

Happy Thanksgiving !

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glassman
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this mortgage meltdown should not have been such a surprise...


we had FBI mortgage fraud investigations as front-page news in Memphis when i first moved to MS in '04.....

the depth and breadth of it is the real surprise i guess...

it appears they just bundled the mortgages all together without sorting out the risk factors...


note the date on this one:

FBI warns of mortgage fraud 'epidemic'
Seeks to head off 'next S&L crisis'

From Terry Frieden
CNN Washington Bureau
Friday, September 17, 2004 Posted: 5:44 PM EDT (2144 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rampant fraud in the mortgage industry has increased so sharply that the FBI warned Friday of an "epidemic" of financial crimes which, if not curtailed, could become "the next S&L crisis."

Assistant FBI Director Chris Swecker said the booming mortgage market, fueled by low interest rates and soaring home values, has attracted unscrupulous professionals and criminal groups whose fraudulent activities could cause multibillion-dollar losses to financial institutions.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic," said Swecker, who heads the Criminal Division at FBI headquarters in Washington. "We think we can prevent a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis," he said.

In the 1980s, many Savings and Loans failed because of poor management, risky loans and investments, and in some cases, fraud. Taxpayers were left with a $132 billion tab to cover federal guarantees to S&L customers.

The FBI has dispatched undercover teams across the country in an urgent investigation into dealings by suspect mortgage brokers, appraisers, short-term investors, and loan officers, Swecker, flanked by FBI executives and Justice Department prosecutors, revealed.

In one operation, six individuals were arrested Thursday in Charlotte, charged with bank fraud for their roles in a multimillion-dollar mortgage fraud, officials said. The two-year investigation found fraudulent loans that exposed financial institutions and mortgage companies to $130 million in potential losses, they said.

Also Thursday, federal agents in Jacksonville arrested two people and executed seven search warrants in connection with an alleged scheme designed to defraud banks of $22 million, officials said.

The number of open FBI mortgage fraud investigations has increased more than five-fold in the past three years, from 102 probes in 2001 to 533 as of June 30 this year, the FBI said. The potential losses are staggering, and many financial institutions are cooperating with investigators.

Officials noted mortgage industry sources have reported more than 12,000 cases of suspicious activity in the past nine months, three times the number reported in all of 2001.

While the FBI described mortgage-related fraud as a nationwide problem, it said the levels of illegal activity are worse in some locations than in others.

States identified as the top 10 "hot spots" for mortgage fraud are Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, California, Nevada, Utah and Colorado.

"It's bad in Georgia, the Atlanta area," said John Gillies, chief of the FBI's Financial Institutions Fraud Unit. "It was bad in the Charlotte area, but we've had a lot of undercover activity there that's helped push the problem into South Carolina."


http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/17/mortgage.fraud/index.html


i hope somebody investigates why the investigators failed to put a stop to it [Big Grin]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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here's a list of a few of the different scams that were being "run"

http://www.behinthemortgage.com/behind_the_mortgage/2005/11/heard_on_the_st.html

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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ohio_trader
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
this mortgage meltdown should not have been such a surprise...


we had FBI mortgage fraud investigations as front-page news in Memphis when i first moved to MS in '04.....

the depth and breadth of it is the real surprise i guess...

it appears they just bundled the mortgages all together without sorting out the risk factors...


note the date on this one:

FBI warns of mortgage fraud 'epidemic'
Seeks to head off 'next S&L crisis'

From Terry Frieden
CNN Washington Bureau
Friday, September 17, 2004 Posted: 5:44 PM EDT (2144 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rampant fraud in the mortgage industry has increased so sharply that the FBI warned Friday of an "epidemic" of financial crimes which, if not curtailed, could become "the next S&L crisis."

Assistant FBI Director Chris Swecker said the booming mortgage market, fueled by low interest rates and soaring home values, has attracted unscrupulous professionals and criminal groups whose fraudulent activities could cause multibillion-dollar losses to financial institutions.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic," said Swecker, who heads the Criminal Division at FBI headquarters in Washington. "We think we can prevent a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis," he said.

In the 1980s, many Savings and Loans failed because of poor management, risky loans and investments, and in some cases, fraud. Taxpayers were left with a $132 billion tab to cover federal guarantees to S&L customers.

The FBI has dispatched undercover teams across the country in an urgent investigation into dealings by suspect mortgage brokers, appraisers, short-term investors, and loan officers, Swecker, flanked by FBI executives and Justice Department prosecutors, revealed.

In one operation, six individuals were arrested Thursday in Charlotte, charged with bank fraud for their roles in a multimillion-dollar mortgage fraud, officials said. The two-year investigation found fraudulent loans that exposed financial institutions and mortgage companies to $130 million in potential losses, they said.

Also Thursday, federal agents in Jacksonville arrested two people and executed seven search warrants in connection with an alleged scheme designed to defraud banks of $22 million, officials said.

The number of open FBI mortgage fraud investigations has increased more than five-fold in the past three years, from 102 probes in 2001 to 533 as of June 30 this year, the FBI said. The potential losses are staggering, and many financial institutions are cooperating with investigators.

Officials noted mortgage industry sources have reported more than 12,000 cases of suspicious activity in the past nine months, three times the number reported in all of 2001.

While the FBI described mortgage-related fraud as a nationwide problem, it said the levels of illegal activity are worse in some locations than in others.

States identified as the top 10 "hot spots" for mortgage fraud are Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, California, Nevada, Utah and Colorado.

"It's bad in Georgia, the Atlanta area," said John Gillies, chief of the FBI's Financial Institutions Fraud Unit. "It was bad in the Charlotte area, but we've had a lot of undercover activity there that's helped push the problem into South Carolina."


http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/17/mortgage.fraud/index.html


i hope somebody investigates why the investigators failed to put a stop to it [Big Grin]

------------------------------------------------

further proof of its intention, meltdown of the middle class, this didn't happen per chance- and all will pay, even those with great credit and financially responsible, as more homes go into foreclosure all homeowners( values continue to go down) and renters(as rents also will go higher) will lose

in detroit 1 out of every 33 homes is in foreclosure, this has a domino effect in the community that impacts both socio and economically that is devasting, especially to an area of the country that is very fragile to begin with ( ie detroit was rated the most dangerous to live in this past year)....what does that speak as people to allow this erosion and decay to take place and continue throughout this country, my deceased grandparents all born pre 1905 wouldn't believe what has happened in this country the last 25 years if they were still alive

we have many great people, just few great leaders

On this holiday be thankful for the many blessings, but also reflect on the times, and the poor fortunes of many in this country

Happy Thanksgiving

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glassman
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The two-year investigation found fraudulent loans that exposed financial institutions and mortgage companies to $130 million in potential losses, they said.

the sick part is that the financial institutions that bought those 100 million$ bundles turned them in to 2billion$ margin accounts and then proceeded to trade the crap out of them....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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consumer confidence level is way down....

look out below...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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BooDog
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Yep. Most of my long range money is already shifted (retirement funds) still buying on the way down for the long range gains but the major capital is protected. I'll be looking to cap major buys beginning in Feb. In the meantime there are some big bottom plays coming. And I should be left holding some nice chips come next spring. Dats my thinking anyway.

--------------------
All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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The Bigfoot
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That's not surprising, why shouldn't it be down?

Not much a person can count on right now. A lot of folks are feeling behind the 8-ball.

Foreclosure numbers up here in Minnesota
2005 - 2700
2006 - 4100
2007 - estimated to be at 12,000 by years end.

They say a good chunk of these homes being foreclosed on were rented out which is hurting the rental market also.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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glassman
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i wonder if that number leaked out yesterday afternnon?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IMAKEMONEY
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
so imake are you having fun in this market?

i am not doing anything aggressive. i am enjoying the show for now.

if we end the year 8% up i'll be surprised, but i think we'll still end the year up more than 5%.

our gas prices are going up a nickel a day in our area....
IMO? if we hit 4$/gallon national avg? the recession be "on"

SORRY GLASS, I MISSED THIS, YES ITS BEEN GREAT FOR DAYTRADERS, AND 12,000 JUST MIGHT NOT BE TO FAR OFF,JMO

--------------------
LIFE IS 10% HOW YOU MAKE IT AND 90% HOW YOU TAKE IT!

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T e x
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yikes...

good thread

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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The Bigfoot
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two 200 point rallies in a row?

Is that it...is the economy really that little of a factor?

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BooDog
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http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/leadership/55219;_ylt=AhFMsUSPLoP9ct2ZfO .8xFC7YWsA
Secrets of an Equity Investor

Pretty good article imo.

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All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
two 200 point rallies in a row?

Is that it...is the economy really that little of a factor?

these are still "just frothiness" IMO...

Citibank just paid 11% to get about 7.5 billion ($US) from Abu Dhabi... that's 2 points higher than junk bond rate...

the "technical traders" are fully in charge of the market right now, and they have plenty of cash...
do you know where they got it from?

the Fed meets next week and lowers the overnight rate again? and their cash (US$) will be worth even less, so they'll have to do something else..

my take on the situation is that the market is doing it's best to avoid confronting the fundamentals for as long as possible...

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BooDog
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Fundamentals yes. Which ones actually deserve to be where they have been or came from over the last 6 - 7 years. Tic toc. TA better match up with the FA imo.

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All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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glassman
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Fubndamentlsla:

UBS Writes Down $10 Billion, Singapore Injects Capital

By Reuters | 10 Dec 2007 | 09:53 AM ET


UBS revealed a $10 billion writedown and an emergency injection of funds from Singapore and the Middle East, making it the biggest victim of the U.S. subprime crisis to date among major European banks.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22178101
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Washington Mutual Cutting Dividend and Jobs


By JAD MOUAWAD
Published: December 11, 2007

Washington Mutual, one of the country’s largest lenders, said yesterday that it would exit the subprime lending business, cut its dividend and eliminate 3,150 jobs.

In an effort to regain liquidity in the face of losses and bad loans next year, the company plans to raise $2.5 billion by selling convertible shares. It will reduce its dividend by nearly three-quarters, to 15 cents a share, from 53 cents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/business/11lend.html

this chit is is beginning to stink.

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The Bigfoot
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What do you guys think, are we gonna see another rate cut today?

If so, how much and is it a good thing or a bad thing economy-wise?

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Jo4321
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Well, it was a quarter point, and so far, the market is taking it as a bad thing. DOW just dropped about 150 points in 5 minutes.

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bdgee
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Patience.....

Chunking an ice cube into a bathtub full of boiling water won't make it suddenly come to comforting body temperature, but time can.....

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Jo4321:
Well, it was a quarter point, and so far, the market is taking it as a bad thing. DOW just dropped about 150 points in 5 minutes.

up until the jobs report yesterday? everybody was expecting 50 basis points...

the jobs report came in too strong for a full half point...

nothing seems to add up anymore Jo...

i dunno where all the jobs are coming from...

except Xmas part-timers?

the jobs report came in at a "perfect" gain of 94,000 jobs for November - barely beating consensus by being neither too hot nor too cold.

http://www.moneymorning.com/solid-jobs-report-subprime-bailout-plan-position-fed eral-reserve-policymakers-for-rate-cut-today/

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Jo4321
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Every day this week, I've regretted not just taking my losses and going all cash.

Looks like today could be another.

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glassman
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anybody got whiplash this morning?

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The Bigfoot
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Jimminey- you ain't kidding glass!

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