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Author Topic: !!!!!!!!!! UCLA student stunned by Taser plans suit !!!!!!!!!!
Ace of Spades
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You are not gonna believe your eyes [Eek!]

These P.O.S [Mad] PIGS [Mad]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

UCLA student stunned by Taser plans suit
By Stuart Silverstein, Times Staff Writer
November 17, 2006


The UCLA student stunned with a Taser by a campus police officer has hired a high-profile civil rights lawyer who plans to file a brutality lawsuit.

The videotaped incident, which occurred after the student refused requests to show his ID card to campus officers, triggered widespread debate on and off campus Thursday about whether use of the Taser was warranted. It was the third in a recent series of local incidents captured on video that raise questions about arrest tactics.

Attorney Stephen Yagman said he plans to file a federal civil rights lawsuit accusing the UCLA police of "brutal excessive force," as well as false arrest. The lawyer also provided the first public account of the Tuesday night incident at UCLA's Powell Library from the student, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a 23-year-old senior.

He said that Tabatabainejad, when asked for his ID after 11 p.m. Tuesday, declined because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance. Yagman said Tabatabainejad is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles.

The lawyer said Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but when an officer refused the student's request to take his hand off him, the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling. After police started firing the Taser, Tabatabainejad tried to "get the beating, the use of brutal force, to stop by shouting and causing people to watch. Generally, police don't want to do their dirties in front of a lot of witnesses."

He said Tabatabainejad was hit by the Taser five times and suffered "moderate to severe contusions" on his right side.

UCLA officials declined to respond directly to Yagman's statements, saying they still were conducting their internal investigation of the incident.

The university said earlier, however, that Tabatabainejad was asked for his ID as part of a routine nightly procedure to make sure that everyone using the library after 11 p.m. is a student or otherwise authorized to be there. Campus officials have said the long-standing policy was adopted to ensure students' safety.

UCLA also said that Tabatabainejad refused repeated requests by a community service officer and regular campus police to provide identification or to leave. UCLA said the police decided to use the Taser to incapacitate Tabatabainejad only after the student urged other library patrons to join his resistance.

Some witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door.

In a prepared statement released late Thursday, UCLA's interim chancellor, Norman Abrams, urged the public to "withhold judgment" while the campus police department investigates. "I, too, have watched the videos, and I do not believe that one can make a fair judgment regarding the matter from the videos alone. I am encouraged that a number of witnesses have come forward and are participating in the investigation."

Meanwhile, student activists were organizing a midday rally today to protest the incident, and the Southern California office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations called for an independent investigation.

The incident follows the recent announcement that four of the campus police department's nearly 60 full-time sworn officers had won so-called Taser Awards granted by the manufacturer of the device to "law enforcement officers who save a life in the line of duty through extraordinary use of the Taser." The award stemmed from an incident in which officers subdued a patient who allegedly threatened staff at the campus' Neuropsychiatric Hospital with metal scissors.

Jeff Young, assistant police chief, declined to indicate whether any of the honored officers were among the several involved in Tuesday's incident.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs [Eek!]

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Ace of Spades
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Original video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

UCLA student protest for taser incident

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0kqYhaGOh6w

News Coverage

http://youtube.com/watch?v=emEK7t2m35Q

Demonstration at UCLA for Taser Incident by UCPD

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TdXaaN6I4GQ

UCLA taser Police Brutality Rally Fri Nov 17

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jFfXJMsciFU

You tube Response

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ot9pOmcVi-o

Youtube makes a difference in the UCLA taser incident

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_unmcmJW0

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Ace of Spades
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Fox News(!) Denounces UCLA Tasing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ewac9GT7gvA

Keith Olbermann interviews Mostafa's Lawyer

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uhYCeO67fCs

Keith Olbermann

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OOM5p89lVZI

The cops even threatened other students who asked for their badge #'s

Here's the original

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

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Gordon Bennett
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I hope he wins.

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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permanentjaun
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Video doesn't show much about what was happening before the taser. The question that needs to be answered is what would have happened if he had simply cooperated. Would he just have been kicked out of the library since he had no ID? He stereotyped himself by immediately saying they were treating him differently because of his ethnicity. He gave them reason to believe he was doing something wrong by not cooperating with them. All he had to do was do as they said from the very beginning. If you're not supposed to be in the library after 11 without an ID then don't be in the library after 11 without an ID. If he had an ID, then show your ID. It's as simple as that.

Don't give other people a reason to mistreat you. If after he had showed an ID they still tried to kick him out for no reason then go right ahead and protest. He gave the police an out by not cooperating with him.

Do I think what the police did was excessive, maybe. The police are allowed to use force that common citizens are not allowed because their job is prevent people from becoming victims. He was obviously yelling and enraged. People make stupid decisions when the adreneline is running high. They took him down by taser to prevent the chance of him using adrenaline fueled force against the officers.

I couldn't see if he was handcuffed when he was on the ground or not. I would assume so. If someone is worth getting tasered then they're probably worth getting handcuffed. In this aspect the cops probably did use excessive force. All they had to do after the initial taser was carry him out even if he was not standing up as requested. No use in tasering someone who is already beaten down.

My point is it all could have been prevented if the kid was just smart enough to show his ID. He is at fault for that. The cops used excessive force after he was cuffed and tasered initially. They're wrong in that aspect. The kid will probably win because of the excessive force, but I will say I don't like the kid because of his stubborn stupidity.

The cops may have stereotyped, but all because you're Iranian doesn't mean you can't go to the library. If you have the correct ID or documents to show you are allowed in the library then show them and beat the cops by legally being allowed to stay there. It's like a little cat walking in front of 10 angry dogs from behind a fence. The cat can be pompous knowing the dogs can't do anything.

The kid probably would win more in court, as well as prison time for the cops if he just cooperated and they still continued with the force. I have no pity for the kid. Matt

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bdgee
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I'm still looking for someone that is considering whether or not the taser should ever be used by the government, instead of this whining "why didn't he cooperate with the Campus cops" routine to justify or cover up the use of cruel and unusual punishment by the government.

Why didn't the Campus Cops ask anyone else in the library to prove they were students?

Why is it ok for the Cops to "punish" someone that questions their authority, as if so doing were not within their Constitutional right to petition the Government?

If I understand correctly, there were four Campus cops and only one student. Why must a clearly overwhelming force of four to one resort to unusual means to enforce the law "assuming the Campus cops actually believed they were charged with or had a right to physically remove the student and assuming he was not removing himself?

It is time we started insisting that the over anxious egos of our law enforcement personel find some more peaceful methods of getting the public to conform to their wishes or supply us with clear and basic reason for their reaction to their demands, each and every time such an instance occurs.

I have heard "no information" that the Campus Cops had or imagined any "adequate cause" for assuming the student was either dangerous or suspicious or not within his rights. Why not? It is a requirement of the Constitution that even the cops must have such cause!

Where in the constitution does it say that the people are subject to the whim or will of the cops?

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permanentjaun
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Thanks for saying I was whining. I appreciate it.

The question still stands. Why didn't he cooperate with the cops from the beginning?

The cops didn't ask anyone else because they had their first priority; the student refusing to show he was legally allowed to be there. If he had an ID they would have gone on to the other students. Are you saying they're supposed to ask if a student has ID, they refuse, and they just say "ok, well you're only allowed in here if you have an ID. You don't have an ID but I'll still allow you to stay here." It wouldn't be fair to the students who have paid for their right to be in the library and attend that esteemed university.

What happens when the student has a knife or a gun? No matter how many officers there are versus the one student the weapon is now a very important tool that has shifted the power into the students hands. If you don't like officers using tasers then perhaps you'd like them using billy clubs or guns. I'd rather take a shock and burn than broken bones, possible head injury, or death from a gun. Besides the burn the taser victims are back to normal within serveral hours at most. That can't be said for people taken down by clubs or guns.

You're saying the cops had no reason to take the student down. They did. He refused to cooperate many times and did not produce his ID to prove he was allowed in the library. He can then be assumed to be trespassing. All he needed to do was cooperate and leave. I don't see that in the video.

Like I said though, after the intial taser the cops should have been able to take him out without him being able to walk. They did use excessive force in that sense. They were correct in his initial taser though.

Don't give anyone an out. The student did that when he refused to cooperate. The blame would most surely be on the cops if he had simply showed an ID or left when asked to leave because he had no ID. He gave the cops an out.

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Ace of Spades
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That's a good question, permanentjaun...

They can ask the 100+ whitnesses...

permanentjaun...You know what those 100+ whitnesses say?

They say he was walking out the door, when the cops first grabbed his arm. You can here on the video in plain english the kid saying he is not resisting arrest and he is leaving...in plain english, that my friend is on the video. What is also on the video is several huge cops, against an unarmed skinny kid. Before taseres what did they do? Just pick up the kid and carry him out. Several cops that have seen the video, said what the cops did was crazy, and was handled badly...

His lawyer actually says why he initialy didn't show ID in one of the clips I posted, And they will answer it in court. The funny thing is, the cops can't say he was resisting arrest, because he wasn't even being arrested, and was never even read his rights...why ? Because he didn't do anything wrong to be arrested for. And even is he was...He was resiting passively and not physicaly, in which case the taser shouldn' have been used. What did cops do before taseres? 3 or 5 cops would simply pick up the skinny kid and carry hime out. The truth is one of the cops has a history of abusing his power...

But The more important question is why didn't he cooperate after he was taserd the first time. The answer is being tasered can leave someone imobile for 15 min...But he was tasered several times. Whitnesses say he was also tasered in the ASS, which is not right and uncalled for.

Whey would a cop tasere the kid in the ASS on purposed ? The same reason they tasered him in 5 times in the first place, and threatened other students, who asked for badge #'s

Even after the kid told the cops he had a medical condition, they kept tasering him. What if he had a Pace Maker ?

If he died in the video because his medical condition, would your opinion change, permanentjaun

Later that night they let the kid go with no charges, just a citation. Why ? Because he didn't do anything to be chared for. But I can't believe they let the kid go, without recievin medical attention after being tasered so many times.

The thing that sticks out the most on the Video is when the students requested the badge # and the cops info, they threatened to taser them...That right there says a lot about what those cops are all about.

All I know is some of those cops are going down for the count...and they won't get back up.

And if one of them do fight their way back up, who cares...The kid will get a nice check.

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permanentjaun
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Ace of Spades,

The videos on here have the opinion of 1 journalist who "heard" that he was walking out the door. Those 100 witnesses you speak of haven't spoken yet. Don't try to speak for them.

What did they do before tasers? Police officers died from being stabbed and shot by the people they were trying to arrest. The stun gun is an effective weapon because it is nonlethal with, in nearly all cases, no permanant damage.

Why did he not show his ID, because he thought he was being targeted? Show the ID and the confrontation is over. You target yourself when you think you're only being picked out for your ethnicity, as if you're not able to be suspect to laws because of it.

I have not once said that the cops did not use excessive force when they continually tasered him. They will be punished for that. They did have the right to taser him the first time. He was resisting to show ID and was therefore trespassing. That is illegal. Believe it or not, but removing those without ID is for their safety. One of the videos clearly points out the libraries policy of only allowing students past 11 is to prevent strangers and homeless from using the library. This is to keep out criminals, drug dealers, and other various types. How would you like to send your kid to a school which allows possible criminals and drug dealers to be in close proximity to your children late at night? What if he was a rapist stalking a female waiting for her to leave the library after 12 at night. Don't tell me Los Angeles is a safe city to live in. THIS IS WHY HE NEEDS TO SHOW ID!

Again, I'll repeat, I do believe the cops used excessive force once they tasered him more than once. One taser, as you point out, is enough to incapacitate someone for 15 minutes.

Where they taser someone is not inhumane unless they purposefuly tasered him in the genitals or somewhere sensitive such as the eyes. The ass is mainly fat and not as painfully sensitive as other areas of the body. In fact tasering in the ass may have been more humane. It is mainly fat and away from vital organs such as the heart.

He announced he had a medical condition AFTER the first taser. This is why I still back up the police in their initial taser, but not in their subsequent taserings. They used excessive force once they tasered him the 2nd and other times.

They let him off with a citation because they later learned that he was a student. Therefore, he was not trespassing. He did interrupt in the officers duties of effectively scanning the people in the library to see who should and should not be there. If he was not a student then they could have charged him with trespassing. Simple as that. He broke no laws after the fact. If he was a non student he was breaking a law. ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS SHOW AN ID! If he had no ID, leave peacefully from the initial request.

It's the same reason we allow ourselves to be frisked before entering sporting events, concerts, or other major events. We want to keep those with weapons out and keep the rest of us inside safe. I'd like to see you get past the front gate guards and demand you be let in without being frisked. It's the same thing here. The students need to show a form of student ID to prove they're legally allowed to be there. This is to keep the harmful people out and protect the students inside.

Your point about the cops threatening the other students when asked for badge numbers isn't very strong. You're making conflicting points. You saw how everyone was acting. You say it was 4 cops versus 1 little kid and therefore the taser wasn't necessary. Then you protect the students when it was essentially 50 students versus 4 cops. Who has the upper hand then? That is why the cops needed to threaten the students. Their safety was clearly in danger and needed to regain control of the situation. I'm surprised how close the cop at the end allows the one kid to yell in his face. I've seen people maced for less.

I'll say it again. The cops were right in their procedures in their initial tasering. If I get more proof that the kid was leaving at the time of the events then I'll change my position. Right now though, there is no video of that portion and its all "he said she said" that he was leaving. That needs to be proven.

Again, the kid should have just shown ID. I stil have no pity for him.

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bdgee
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"The question still stands. Why didn't he cooperate with the cops from the beginning?

The cops didn't ask anyone else because they had their first priority; the student refusing to show he was legally allowed to be there."

In other words, according to you, the only reason they asked him for his ID is justified only after the fact and that same excuse justifies beating, torturing, and humiliating him.

That amounts to admitting that they did not have adequate cause to search him or his papers, so the argument that he refused to respond as per their wishes is his right to do according to the Constitution.

In spite of your siding with the cops and willingness to allow them to ignore the law, it is the cops that acted in violation of the law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The excuse you provide for them attacking him, that he refused to obey the cops (which could only be involked by the cops after they illegally accousted him, by the way) is trumped unless they had prior and independent reason to believe he was in violation of the law before they asked to see his ID (which are among his papers protected by the Constitution), which seems to be more than just a bit of a stretch, since they accousted no one else with a request for ID.

The simple fact is that they acted out of racial prejudice in violation of the Civil Rights act of 1964.

Cops DO NOT HAVE authority to accost whomever they wish with request of a particular person to prove he isn't in violation of the law.

In particular, with respect to trespassing, which is a criminal matter, to allow the police to indiscriminately request of a person, without specific adequate cause to believe that the individual is in violation of the law, is to violate:

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

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NR
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Another example of "police brutality".

NYPD bullet kills groom on wedding day
By ADAM GOLDMAN, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day in a shooting that drew a furious outcry from family members but little immediate explanation from police.

There was no immediate explanation for what sparked the shooting, which left two other men hospitalized and drew angry protests from family members and the Rev. Al Sharpton. The New York Police Department's chief spokesman, Paul Browne, declined to comment.

Full Text At:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061125/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting

--------------------
One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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jp
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I'm with you permanentjaun, just show your id and be on your way, or tell them you have none, if you have nothing to hide all is well, but there's no reason to resist and start a confrontation. Time will tell and the court will make the final judgment, let's wait and see.

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I started with nothing, and still have most of it!!!!

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NR
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Bdgee,

IMO we are not hearing the whole story, regarding this case. Some states, I'm betting that California is one of them, you can be arrested for refusing to give your name or show ID to a police officer if they request them.


Know Your Rights: What to Do If You're Stopped by the Police

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

--------------------
One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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jp
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quote:
Originally posted by NaturalResources:
Another example of "police brutality".

NYPD bullet kills groom on wedding day
By ADAM GOLDMAN, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day in a shooting that drew a furious outcry from family members but little immediate explanation from police.

There was no immediate explanation for what sparked the shooting, which left two other men hospitalized and drew angry protests from family members and the Rev. Al Sharpton. The New York Police Department's chief spokesman, Paul Browne, declined to comment.

Full Text At:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061125/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting

NaturalResources, you have passed judgment without giving the police their day in court, (Another example of "police brutality) I will let those qualified pass judgment, we don't even know what transpired.

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I started with nothing, and still have most of it!!!!

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bdgee
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That some states have passed such a law does no make it a crime.

Even if there is such a law as you describe and should the federal courts allow that ignoring of the Bill of Rights, it remains the case that an officer of the law may not act even within a law without adequate cause to believe a person is in violation of the law and there is absolutely no reason given for the request by the Campus Cops other than a whim or that he didn't "look" racially suitable, nither of which is legal or adequate as a basis for envolking police power.

You provide a link with some good suggestions, but they are not statements or interpretatiosn of law, just naturtal "submissive" beharior techniques to avoid unnecessarilly irritation the police. In this case the police were obviously already angered, apparantly by racial prejudice.....I doubt anything the student could have or might have done would have altered the attitude of the Campus Cops.

(There is nothing any state, any state's legislature, or Congress can do, short of amending the Constitution, that negates the provisions of the Constitution and that inclusdes passing "laws" that are in Contradiction to the Constitution.)

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bdgee
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Had it been me that was asked for an ID, I would have shown one, not out of respect for the law or to avoid a conflict, but simply because it would have been an almost instinctive reaction.

When I am in a library I am always seriously involved in some question or consideration that is on my mind and which is paramount. I will willingly submit to about any request to get rid of anything or anybody that distracts from that goal.

But that doesn't mean that I expect others to be so engrossed or to accept the trampling of their rights or person, even if that offense is at the hands of the police.

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permanentjaun
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They didn't beat him. They didn't humiliate him. They didn't torture him. I haven't seen any reports of the police striking the victim. You're really stretching the definition of torture.

You could describe any police act as torture. Example, man is holding a knife and won't put it down. The police mace him in the eyes. It's painful so then it must be torture. Wrong. They used just force.

Same with how you say they humiliated him. I didn't see any of the students laughing at him. The students held rallies on behalf of him and nearly took on the cops for him. That wasn't exactly humiliating. Under that definition of humiliating then you could say anyone getting taken away by cops in handcuffs is being purposefuly humiliated by the police. They did it to themselves. I'd say it was the police who were being humiliated. So much so that the students had no problem asking such a person of power to produce their numbers.

I don't understand what you're trying to say when you say, "In other words, according to you, the only reason they asked him for his ID is justified only after the fact and that same excuse justifies beating, torturing, and humiliating him."

The police were justified in asking for his ID. They need to check everyones ID to make sure there is no one there that isn't allowed in there, i.e. nonstudents. The police were justified to taser and remove him when he failed to produce an ID AND failed to cooperate with leaving the library. Watch the fox news video, they clearly state the library has postings that ONLY students are allowed in the library after 11 pm and must have a student ID. They have every right and reason to ask someone for their ID.

You wasted your time posting the amendments. Do the police have the right to search someone without reason. NO. So the kid was legally allowed to say no I will not produce an ID. In doing so he is not suspect to being searched, BUT he MUST leave the library since he failed to prove he was legally allowed there. This means he wouldn't have to be searched, but he wouldn't be allowed to stay there either.

You also do not know that they didn't search anyone else for ID. They could have checked everyones ID after the video was stopped. I also wouldn't blame the cops for not checking ID after such a scene. The students were probably still too enraged to cooperate with police and it wouldn't be safe.


I can't believe I'm having this debate with you. You don't even know how to analyze the amendments. Amendment V is an amendment that states no one shall be imprisoned for a crime without first being tried. Nor can they be tried twice for the same crime, i.e. double jeopardy, nor be forced to be used as a witness against themselves ("I plead the fifth"), nor removed of life, liberty, and property, imprisoned, without going through the complete process of law. Nor shall property be taken for public use without being compensated for it, i.e. emminent domain. The fifth amendment is for the process after being arrested, not while being arrested.

The fifth amendment has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Don't try to throw amendments at me, especially ones that have nothing to do with the topic. The kid was wrong in not producing an ID even though he had one. He was being stupid. The cops were correct in their procedure up until they tasered him a second time. They can and will be held responsible for excessive force for their 2nd and subsequent taserings.

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NR
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Bdgee, look at it from the security guard's point of view. A suspicious 25ish middle-eastern male in a student library at UCLA that refuses to show ID or identify himself, breaking the posted rules by even being there, who then tries to "flee the scene" after police repeatedly question him....

I agree with permanentjuan,

quote:
" I have not once said that the cops did not use excessive force when they continually tasered him. They will be punished for that. They did have the right to taser him the first time. He was resisting to show ID and was therefore trespassing. That is illegal. Believe it or not, but removing those without ID is for their safety. One of the videos clearly points out the libraries policy of only allowing students past 11 is to prevent strangers and homeless from using the library. This is to keep out criminals, drug dealers, and other various types. How would you like to send your kid to a school which allows possible criminals and drug dealers to be in close proximity to your children late at night? What if he was a rapist stalking a female waiting for her to leave the library after 12 at night. Don't tell me Los Angeles is a safe city to live in. THIS IS WHY HE NEEDS TO SHOW ID!

Again, I'll repeat, I do believe the cops used excessive force once they tasered him more than once. One taser, as you point out, is enough to incapacitate someone for 15 minutes."



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permanentjaun
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Not even the fact that he's middle-eastern. If you don't have an ID you're not allowed to be there. Simple as that. LA isn't a city to be messing around with and letting anyone go where they want. It's full of drug dealers, rapists, murderers and the same. It's not a school in Rhode Island.
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The Bigfoot
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Did they go overboard... absolutely.

But I gotta admit that other than the multiple taser shots I have no problem with what happened there.

Perhaps someone racially prejudiced reported this person to the cops without cause. Could be. But that is not the fault of the police officers. They are required to ask I.D. of all students in the library after 11pm. I have had similar requirements when I worked on a college campus. Not that uncommon, they were just doing their job.

Once they approached him the man refused to show I.D. and tried to walk away. Given that, they had to try to detain him until identification and his activities could be accounted for.

They try to detain him and he suddenly drops to the ground and starts screaming and yelling about "This is your Patriot Act in action!"?

Very likely these cops (real cops or college rent-a cops?) thought they had an actual terrorist on their hands and it scared the sh** out of em.

Were his actions worth multiple taser shots? No...but I freely admit this guys actions would have freaked me out a bit had a been wearing the uniform then.

BF

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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bdgee
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"Bdgee, look at it from the security guard's point of view. A suspicious 25ish middle-eastern male in a student library at UCLA that refuses to show ID or identify himself, breaking the posted rules by even being there, who then tries to "flee the scene" after police repeatedly question him...."

The cops have no point of view that can be part of this or any other act of law enforcement!

That isn't a personal opinion. That is the requirememt of the Constitution and the law.

Adequate cause, not personal opionion, is required BEFORE the police may exercise police power.

And nowhere is there an exception in the law that says the police may take action because someone is "A suspicious 25ish middle-eastern male in a student library'!!!!!!

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by permanentjaun:
They didn't beat him. They didn't humiliate him.


I can't believe I'm having this debate with you. You don't even know how to analyze the amendments. Amendment V is an amendment that states no one shall be imprisoned for a crime without first being tried. Nor can they be tried twice for the same crime, i.e. double jeopardy, nor be forced to be used as a witness against themselves ("I plead the fifth"), nor removed of life, liberty, and property, imprisoned, without going through the complete process of law. Nor shall property be taken for public use without being compensated for it, i.e. emminent domain. The fifth amendment is for the process after being arrested, not while being arrested.

The fifth amendment has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Don't try to throw amendments at me, especially ones that have nothing to do with the topic. The kid was wrong in not producing an ID even though he had one. He was being stupid. The cops were correct in their procedure up until they tasered him a second time. They can and will be held responsible for excessive force for their 2nd and subsequent taserings.

You need to learn some appropriate usages that reach beyond your obvious politically biased overstatements of specificity of a few statements:

They did beat him.

They did humiliate him.

They did torture him.

And I am not speaking of or in the sense of the Chaney/Rumsfield abominations of the usage of the word torture that they put forth to make you right wingers think you have a legal or honoirable position after the abuses in Iraq and elsewhere and to cover their illegal actions.

Yours seems to be a quite simple minded reading of the Constitution, allowing only those results that your rightwing leanings want to come from the Constitution.

It doesn't allow such interpretation. To to paraphrase Hogo Blacks explanation, When the Constitution says "no" it meams no, not sometimes no and not maybe.

Indeed the 5th Amendment does indeed have something to do with this. it clearly states therein that

"No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...:

and to require that a person supply proof that he is not in violation of trespass laws is a requirement that he bear witness against himself.

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permanentjaun
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Show me the video or news report saying the officers beat the victim. Tell me how the student was humiliated and tortured. Tell me how he was tortured. The cops used excessive force, not torture. If a cop shoots a suspect in the leg is that torture? No. It may be excessive force. It's not torture. Even Rodney King didn't file claims of torture. He fought in court for excessive police brutality. This is all besides the point. The point is that the cops were correct in their intial use of force, but not the use thereafter.

You should be careful who you call a right winger. I am not a right winger so you're only alienating yourself from those on the left, who are supposed to be on your side.

In fact it is your analysis of the 5th amendment that is wrong. Using your right to not bear witness against yourself is only applicable in court. The way you're analyzing it you would be saying that the police are not allowed to check ID's and visa's at US Borders.

If you can produce an ID at the border to prove citizenship then you are allowed in. If you're not, they turn you around. Why do I have to prove I'm a US citizen to be allowed in? I'm not an alien. I know I'm legal. Why do I have to tell prove myself to an officer? To keep non-US citizens out. To keep drug trafficers out. I could go on.

The kid needed to prove that he was a UCLA student to stay in the library. If he can't he is asked to leave just like anyone else without an ID. All he had to do was produce an ID. He did not. He did not leave. The officers are in their right to use force to remove him. I'll say again, I do believe they used excessive force after the initial taser.


quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by permanentjaun:
They didn't beat him. They didn't humiliate him.


I can't believe I'm having this debate with you. You don't even know how to analyze the amendments. Amendment V is an amendment that states no one shall be imprisoned for a crime without first being tried. Nor can they be tried twice for the same crime, i.e. double jeopardy, nor be forced to be used as a witness against themselves ("I plead the fifth"), nor removed of life, liberty, and property, imprisoned, without going through the complete process of law. Nor shall property be taken for public use without being compensated for it, i.e. emminent domain. The fifth amendment is for the process after being arrested, not while being arrested.

The fifth amendment has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Don't try to throw amendments at me, especially ones that have nothing to do with the topic. The kid was wrong in not producing an ID even though he had one. He was being stupid. The cops were correct in their procedure up until they tasered him a second time. They can and will be held responsible for excessive force for their 2nd and subsequent taserings.

You need to learn some appropriate usages that reach beyond your obvious politically biased overstatements of specificity of a few statements:

They did beat him.

They did humiliate him.

They did torture him.

And I am not speaking of or in the sense of the Chaney/Rumsfield abominations of the usage of the word torture that they put forth to make you right wingers think you have a legal or honoirable position after the abuses in Iraq and elsewhere and to cover their illegal actions.

Yours seems to be a quite simple minded reading of the Constitution, allowing only those results that your rightwing leanings want to come from the Constitution.

It doesn't allow such interpretation. To to paraphrase Hogo Blacks explanation, When the Constitution says "no" it meams no, not sometimes no and not maybe.

Indeed the 5th Amendment does indeed have something to do with this. it clearly states therein that

"No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...:

and to require that a person supply proof that he is not in violation of trespass laws is a requirement that he bear witness against himself.


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Highwaychild
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I think he was just looking for a lawsuit(MONEY).
That, or just tring open up the gates for the bad guys.

Hell I'll be glad to get tasered, alot, for a million or two...

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permanentjaun
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Hell for a couple hundred I'm sure a lot of people would do it. The pain is temporary.
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Highwaychild
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If the guy was packing heat, or even had an AK47 stashed some place, got thru and opened fire,
everybody would be saying why didn't they taser the man when he was tring to get in?

With all the school shootings the last few years and all...

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Hannibull
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quote:
Originally posted by Highway:
If the guy was packing heat, or even had an AK47 stashed some place, got thru and opened fire,
everybody would be saying why didn't they taser the man when he was tring to get in?

that's a very paranoid and dangerous way of thinking though, it would justify just about any action
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andrew
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For a few million you can tase the hell out of me as long as you want. lol
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Highwaychild
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With all the school shootings the last few years and all...

Something as simple like showing your student I.D., following security procedures, isn't just "any action".
It doesn't seem like they were asking for too much.

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NR
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Library bombing suspect to stay in jail (2006)
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4695271?source=rss

Bomb explodes in Yale law school (2003)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/05/21/yale.explosion/index.html

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Taser Incident in UCLA Library Sparks Outrage, Investigation

.....

quote:
“Here's your Patriot Act. Here's your #*cking abuse of power," the student yelled during the incident with the police.
.....

Full Text At:
http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6392988.html

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Gordon Bennett
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I'll do it for free, andrew!

quote:
Originally posted by andrew:
For a few million you can tase the hell out of me as long as you want. lol



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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MoneyMoneyMoney
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LOL, tase him again!!!

This is NO torture. Check out Vietnam victims and their experiences to find out a little more about torture and tactics.

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I buy fast and sell faster!

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andrew
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quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
I'll do it for free, andrew!

quote:
Originally posted by andrew:
For a few million you can tase the hell out of me as long as you want. lol


Thanks Gordo.
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Ace of Spades
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Some of you are saying that what if he had a gun, or what about all the school shootings...and he should have shown his I.D.

Your missing the point.

There are strict rules about when cops use tasers.

The student didn't break any law, and was not a physical threat, he was lying limp and passively resisting.

And those of you who are saying what about the school shootings, and what if he had a gun...

The kid was on the ground limp when he was tasered and was not a threat, just lying there. There were several cops that searched him and paded him down. So the cops weren't worried about the kid being armed.

They were just on a power trip, which you can tell by the dialog. They kept saying stand up or you'll get tasered again. The kid was just limp and not resisting, and they new he had no weapon from the begining, so that notion can go out the window. They were just playing with him. One cop inappropriately tasered him on the ass, which will be testified in court. You can hear the kid saying I'm not resisiting, I said I'll leave.

Three cops could have easily picked the kid up, but instead chose to keep tasering him even after he was in cuffs and they new he had no weapon, and was not physicaly a threat.

Oh and you guys forgot to think about something...Don't you think one of the biggest University libraries would have their own security cameras ? You bet they do, and what ever isn't on that 7 min phone cam, will be on the Library's Cameras, Which is why this high profile lawyer from New York, believes the kid and whitnesses about this whole situation...The dialog on and everything on the phone video, and what will be revealed on the Libraries on Security Cameras.

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