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Author Topic: Why does the Democratic party support genocide!
Griffon
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It comes as no surprise that the Liberals would ally with Vlad "the Impaler" Putin and Saddam Hussein given that during the last Democratic Administration 5,000,000 persons of African, Asian, Polynesian/Micronesian and South American ethnicities were killed by their own governments while the US did save Indo-European culture.

After Warren Christopher's now famous "off-the-record" remark about letting the Rwandans die as long as Americans didn't have to, I left the Democratic Party because I knew it no longer had the ideals I believed in. It is not coincidental that the genocide in Rwanda, April 1994, came scant months after Clinton tucked tail, chased tail and ran from Somalia. Were you aware some of the Rwandan leaders point to that very incident as teaching them Americans had no stomach for a fight? Were you aware that UBL and Saddam Hussein pointed to Somalia and said America would never prevent violent dictators and terrorists from killing?

So here we are. Having been a cataloger of mass graves in Iraq, I know what was going on. Marsh Arabs ethnically cleansed coupled with environmental degradation. Genocide against the Kurds and crimes against humanity in Iran and Kuwait. Let's face it, one side wanted to reward Saddam for having murdered 1,400,000 people in Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia by letting him continue to kill 5000-6000 annually. We now have the 2 Russian generals that moved WMDs from Iraq to Syria in Vlad's hands. We now have documentation of Saddam's financial and conversational connection to terror training camps. What is it about the Arab, Pashtu ethnicities that the Democrats say they aren't worth dying to save?

The truth is in looking at who they have said weren't worth sending troops to protect in the past 10 years: Peruvians, Chileans, people from Chad, Sudan, Rwanda, East Timor, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Tibet, Palestine, Borneo, Somalia, Eritrea, Chechnya, Khazakstan to the tune of 5,000,000 dead. But when white folk were being ethnically cleansed in the Balkans, the people were worth fighting to protect.

Whether the Democrats mean it or not, the policy they advance promotes genocide, ethnic cleansing, ethno-centrism, ethno-phobia, sexism, ageism and religio-phobia. Now I am not suggesting such thoughts guide EVERY Democrat, but that is the product of the policies they advocate will get.

At some point the colonial and cold war powers have to assume responsibility for the evil, brutal leaders they equipped for power. But that's enough for now. Let's have a good, fun chat about this absolutely serious issue.

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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glassman
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Having been a cataloger of mass graves in Iraq, I know what was going on. Marsh Arabs ethnically cleansed coupled with environmental degradation. Genocide against the Kurds and crimes against humanity in Iran and Kuwait. Let's face it, one side wanted to reward Saddam for having murdered 1,400,000 people in Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia by letting him continue to kill 5000-6000 annually. We now have the 2 Russian generals that moved WMDs from Iraq to Syria in Vlad's hands. We now have documentation of Saddam's financial and conversational connection to terror training camps. What is it about the Arab, Pashtu ethnicities that the Democrats say they aren't worth dying to save?

you are going to have to do better than make these hollow claims..
for starters?
provide links to:
1)the 2 Russian generals that moved WMDs from Iraq to Syria


you may feel obliged to save the world by inviting the "New World Order" to take over complete control of your life...

why don't you just move into a monastary... you can have peace there..

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Saddam Hussein pointed to Somalia and said America would never prevent violent dictators and terrorists from killing?

i'm sorry to point this out to you but Somalia happened after the Gulf War...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Johnwayne
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Hey my B-52 is here.
Griffon is my brother Glassman.
I feel like a one man recon platoon assessing the situation than calling in an air strike,in the form of my brother.
Just kidding. Have fun Griff. I didn't know you already started posting.
I am taking the boys to X- men and will formally intro my brother to the board later.
Oh and Glassman, prepare yourself, I'm sure that link you requested is coming!

--------------------
Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice.

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glassman
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good...

i'm always interested in finding out what's really goin gon... if it is really going on...

funny how none of that made it into the GOP senate report huh?

somalia after gulf war tho??
not gonna hold my breath...
sounds more like another fascist to me...
parading as a peacenik...
those are the worst...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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i hope he isn't planning to use John Loftus as a source...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Gordon Bennett
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Historically, the democrats and republicans have both "supported" genocide.

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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glassman
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so what?

as long as the ammo is paid for in cash?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Gordon Bennett
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Yeah....

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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glassman
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seriously? what are we supposed to do?

it's not like we really are the Rulers of the Universe...

Nietszhe was right about fighting monsters...
you can't kill 'em all..

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Griffon
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To my new friends, I will try to answer all your questions and comments in brief. Sorry to have posted and ran, but you know how the call to serve can be sudden and unexpected.

Regarding the "hollow claims" check out HRW's website for the documentation of meat grinder and plastic shredder usage in Saddam era Iraq. That's simple ancient history.

Just as the comments about the two Russian Generals:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21722

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/syria/cw.htm (mostly just a report on Syria but interesting)

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/vernon/060220 (an obvious bias on this site, only acceptable with other corroborating evidence)

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/ex-Pentagon.htm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041229-113041-1647r.htm (also expalins why it isn't showing up in the report you cited. More on the other issues coming in a sec.

I will provide other info

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
seriously? what are we supposed to do?

it's not like we really are the Rulers of the Universe...

Nietszhe was right about fighting monsters...
you can't kill 'em all..

you can...

but requires a calm, quiet that few achieve

monsters thrive on "thoughts-clung-to"

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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OK so sadam was a dipwad....

there's still a lot of people gettin hurt over there without him...

and that ain't gonna stop just cuz the United States Marines  - showed up....

this tribal stuff has been going on since before there was a USA....

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Griffon
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Now regarding the mass graves in Iraq:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738368.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2785095.stm

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php

http://hrw.org/campaigns/iraq/graves/slideshow_as2/slideshow_as2.html

the last one is a bit graphic

As to Somalia being after the Gulf War, I apologize if you were led to believe that was what I was suggesting. If that is your assumption it is poor word choice on my part. I was refering to the increasing display of bravado that in effect led to the second War and consequent occupation. The most recent action and toppling of "the Butcher of Baghdad" is the conflict I meant and its roots go back to Clinton's declining resolve to confront violent leaders of a different ethnicity than his own.

More will come.

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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glassman
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so? lemme see if i get you griffon?

you say it's a good thing to invade other countries and kill people so they won't kill other people?

just like killing doctors is OK so they won't perform abortions?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Griffon
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Glassman, you are arguing my point with one small exception: you misunderstand my appreciation of the "New World Order."

I have to say, as a person who goes to places in the world in conflict to bind wounds and work for peace, you wound me in suggesting I am a facist posing as a peacenik. After all I told you I am not a Democrat. I renounced the facism of political parties a long time ago: 1996 to be exact.

See, there is a difference between saying the Western powers that raped and pillaged colonies and minor allies for 450 years have an obligation to those suffering nations (to remove brutal dictators that the West too often sponsored) and what you suggest I am saying.

I am saying we have an obligation to those nations we exploited and oppressed to end the tyranny they have been victimized by under evil leaders we imposed upon them. You suggest I have a plan to bring them into a grand Western schemata.

If you would like to hear my thoughts on a true peace plan to implement as we fight this wretched war let me know. It is going to be a Doctoral discertation some day.

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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glassman
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If you would like to hear my thoughts on a true peace plan to implement as we fight this wretched war let me know.


what are you waiting for? a written invitation?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless Despot.
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Ahhh.. yet another idealist.. this one does seem bright however.

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Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt

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Leo
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Finally
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Griffon
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"so? lemme see if i get you griffon?

you say it's a good thing to invade other countries and kill people so they won't kill other people?

just like killing doctors is OK so they won't perform abortions?"

In response Glassman: I presume then you advocate letting the genocide continue, better to let their own leaders kill them than us getting our hands dirty. Hey, if we could have just bought Saddam off, then great, but what happens when the next tick on the neck of some nation asks for that much more?

What you're saying is that it's okay for the knuckle-head we foisted off on a helpless population should just be allowed to keep killing his/her own people as long as Americans don't have to get their hands dirty. That is certainly a rather self-righteous perspective. We put the monster in place but unless the natives throw the monster off, it's not enough for us to bother with. Sounds rather ethnocentrist.

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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Relentless Despot.
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I truly suspect we are about to hear a thousand words strung together in an effort to convey a message of desired reclusiveness.
I do enjoy these messages.
It is a nice departure from the constant Bush hating we so regularly witness here.

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Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt

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glassman
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you wound me in suggesting I am a facist posing as a peacenik. After all I told you I am not a Democrat.

i've listened to a lot of fascists posing as peaceniks.... they mostly started off this way....

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Leo
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Here here RD.
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glassman
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We put the monster in place
NO!

we choose which monster is going to be in place...
because that's who always ends up there anyway..

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Johnwayne
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Told you guya my brother has an IQ of over 180. Did you think I was joking.
Now what happened to my brains damnit!
Glassman sweet Marine insignia. How can I get hold of that?

--------------------
Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice.

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Leo
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And then we throw money at them
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnwayne:
Told you guya my brother has an IQ of over 180. Did you think I was joking.
Now what happened to my brains damnit!
Glassman sweet Marine insignia. How can I get hold of that?

Joe Tracy, Commercial Artist made it... heres his page..

http://www.joe4art.com/Examples.htm

http://www.joe4art.com/images/Art-Examples/USMC%20BD.jpg

(i stole it, ahem PG? no i mean i er uh borrowed, yeah i borrowed it for a little while)

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless Despot.
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What these young souls fail to realize is that there is nothing to be done which can stop this train wreck.
It has been the increasing mental laziness of the people who muster the energy to vote 2.5 times every decade that has doomed us to this fate we now barely see infront of us.
There is no number of hugs that can stop this now.
There is no evil dictator once supported that can be killed to stop this.
It is all youthfull exuberance that leads to such notions.. Notions that any problem can be solved.
Notions that here on this day we need concern ourselves with saving as many as possible..
Notions that those we plausibly save would enjoy our chosen life of mediocrity.
We have nothing to offer those we save but our own imprisonment.
We wish to save them from quick death so that they might know long torture in this governed exsistence.
I think not.
I say we save no one but ourselves as we should soon see it is time again to fight.
I will not fight to save you.
I will only fight to save my treasure.
I will trust as few can that you will fight for that which you hold dear.

--------------------
Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnwayne:
Told you guya my brother has an IQ of over 180. Did you think I was joking.
Now what happened to my brains damnit!
Glassman sweet Marine insignia. How can I get hold of that?

cool...

get it going...would love to see some real debate around here...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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What you're saying is that it's okay for the knuckle-head we foisted off on a helpless population should just be allowed to keep killing his/her own people as long as Americans don't have to get their hands dirty. That is certainly a rather self-righteous perspective. We put the monster in place but unless the natives throw the monster off, it's not enough for us to bother with. Sounds rather ethnocentrist.


not at all...

i am a realist..

Iraq has no patriotism..
why?

because it is a synthetic country comprised of diverse ethnic groups..
Kurds (who i am ashamed to say Bush SR abandoned after the gulf war)
Shia, who are affiliated with the Iranians... need i say more?

and the Sunnis who we allowed to become a nukular par in Pakistan...

i know i'm leaving out somebody but...ma AHQ is down to 179 tonight...

as a matter of fact? there are few places in the world that even have the US concept of Patriotism in their national genome...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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i am totally interested in hearing a rational peace plan...
as long as it doesn't involve one world government or Faces in the Sky....

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless Despot.
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No such thing as a peace plan.
Peace either exsists or it does not.
Peace has yet to ever exsist on this planet.
It will not for a long time to come.
Either fight now or delay it.

--------------------
Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnwayne:
Told you guya my brother has an IQ of over 180. Did you think I was joking.
Now what happened to my brains damnit!
Glassman sweet Marine insignia. How can I get hold of that?

180?

shoot, JW--we didn't discriminate re your IQ, right? No reason to hold your bro' back based on low IQ....

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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i forgot the Bedouins... isn't that the Marsh Arabs that Sadam hated so much he drained their swamps?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Griffon
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To answer your question about waiting for an invitation: I am new to this site and unsure of its etiquette so "Yes" I was waiting for your invite. I am writing this freshly because I need to edit out the academic jargon.

At the crux of my "idealism" is the firm belief, confirmed in the field, that we must come together and see the humanity we share. Is that a problem for you so far?

I propose that the principle factors of destabilization are found in the systemic flaws in the human institutions of mercantilism, colonialism and Cold War. These political and economic systems degraded relations between "tribes" and/or nations. This exascerbated primal ethnocentric/ethnophobic tensions between tribes and/or nations.

In the ensuing colonial conflicts, tribal identity was supplanted by the "superior" Western model of successful culture. Loss of indigenous identity led to competing powers striving to give identity.

This is a root cause of instability because identity is a ground up, not top down function of tribalism/system. Thus, people who have lost their inherent identity are vulnerable to a sense of being culturally orphaned. This in turn makes the indigenous peoples susceptable to a charismatic movement claiming (sometimes genuinely) to recapture their "authentic" identity. More in a minute

--------------------
God's peace be with you
A salaam a lakum
Shalom Chevarim

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