posted
Would love to hear comments from the peanut gallery that condon the war on this video.
So, our government doing this is acceptable?
What would YOU think of americans if you were born in Iraq and someone came into your country and burned your family and children who were supposed to be liberating you?
Can you imagine the horror if you were there and tried to surrender only to see your family shot?
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oh, so you were there too huh Art? What sector did you fight in? Your one sided propaganda film was cool. Brought back some memories. Anyway, Willie pete and napalm aren't chemical weapons. Guys waving white flags isn't uncommon, it's what they do when they run out of ammo and got no where to go. Shooting kids, well, when they shoot at you first, that's what happens. Oh and the Iralian journalist who got shot up. Well, even the Iraqi's know you don't approach a checkpoint at a high rate of speed. It's the whole suicide bomber thing. Oh wait, you've never had to exerience that. Never mind. You have no idea what it's like over there.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Which type of weapon makes your skin fall off your body but not your clothes?
Oh, so you believe OUR media but no others? Even though theres countries like india, great britain and others that report on things like this on a consistant basis? They are wrong too? Only the American filtered media is true?
I suppose chinese people believe they live in a democratic society because their government tells them they do?
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Shooting kids, well, when they shoot at you first, that's what happens
Sounds to me like you think someone is saying it's the individual troops fault for this conduct and that they are not conducting themselves.
They do as they are TOLD to do... You know what RANK is I'm sure, you listen to your commander I'm sure.
I don'tblame individual troops. There are times when they do things like stick a flourescent light bulb up someones a$$ but.. They are humans.. (some sarcasim with truth in that one).
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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No art, napalm isn't a chemical weapon. It's an incindiary. Yeah, quinn, riiiight, we're using weapons that do that. Umm, probably shouldn't believe everything you hear or read. And yes quinn, I have. Have you? Do you know how bad your buddies guts smell (at least until they dry out) when you get 'em on your uniform. Hey, I have and idea. Why don't you guys go do the whole Viet Nam thing and find the first soldier or Marine, and not a REMF, but a true combat arms guy and get in his face over this. I mean face to face. Tell him what you think about what he's doing over there. Quinn, you can run up to Ft. Drum and Art, you can run over to Camp Pendleton. And Quinn, I believe no one but myself and my buddies that were there.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Once again Art, they are both classified as incidiary weapons. And yes, if a kid is shooting at you what are you supposed to do? Accept it. You don't, you do what you have to to keep your own guys alive. Pure and simple. Right and wrong get awfully grey when you are trying to survive a situation. And unless you've been in that situation you really shouldn't be passing judgement.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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I urge everyone to watch this video. It contains testimony from people who were actually there, and undeniable footage. See the video HILANDER calls "cool!"Posts: 3243 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:No art, napalm isn't a chemical weapon. It's an incindiary. Yeah, quinn, riiiight, we're using weapons that do that. Umm, probably shouldn't believe everything you hear or read. And yes quinn, I have. Have you? Do you know how bad your buddies guts smell (at least until they dry out) when you get 'em on your uniform. Hey, I have and idea. Why don't you guys go do the whole Viet Nam thing and find the first soldier or Marine, and not a REMF, but a true combat arms guy and get in his face over this. I mean face to face. Tell him what you think about what he's doing over there. Quinn, you can run up to Ft. Drum and Art, you can run over to Camp Pendleton. And Quinn, I believe no one but myself and my buddies that were there.
So I should believe who exactly then, please clarify because I can not make my own conclusions with the incredible amount of information I've gone through over the last few years.
I'm not citing the Iraq "war" to come to my conclusions it's with data of past wars and administrations actions.
Hilander, then why are these peoples skin falling off their bodies?
I don't believe most of what I read, like I said I didn't come to this conclusion after watching 1 video.
What is with saying go talk to a soldier, what does you smelling your buddies guts have to do with the government using chemical weapons?
I'll say it again, I don't blame individual soldiers, they do what they are told. In this case the soldiers were just pilots who pressed a button to drop weapons (simlar to weapons we tell people not to use).
So, I don't know what your point is, you seem to take this personally when it is not.
I'm sorry I care about human lives including YOURS.
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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Quinn, the only chemical weapon I am aware of that would cause your skin to fall off or perhaps look like it would be possibly a blister agent. But I think those primarily attack the lungs. Blisters form and then pop in the lungs, the lungs fill with fluid and you die of dryland drowning. I do know for a fact that the insurgents did fire chemical mortars at us. They just were ineffective. It did suck though because we had to roll around with our MOPP suits and masks for like a week.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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It's very strange to see a human body that is probably a day or a few days old melted to the bone and still wearing its clothes which look like they were only dirty.
I don't argue that the soldiers are in a horrible position in the sense that they have to follow orders and they are in life or death situations constatntly, I can't imagine what it's like.
But, you have to remember who put them there... Who put them there is responsible for everything and anything that happens due to their decisions.
Posts: 562 | From: NY | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oh, and the common grunt on the ground has no way of employing chems. They can call for fire, but that uually just involves an air or artillery strike.
-------------------- If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. Posts: 1529 | From: Tacoma WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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I don't really care who employs 'em. The results are the same. I do care who authorized their use, however.
Posts: 3243 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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Officials confirm dropping firebombs on Iraqi troops
Results are 'remarkably similar' to using napalm
By James W. Crawley UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
August 5, 2003
American jets killed Iraqi troops with firebombs – similar to the controversial napalm used in the Vietnam War – in March and April as Marines battled toward Baghdad.
Marine Corps fighter pilots and commanders who have returned from the war zone have confirmed dropping dozens of incendiary bombs near bridges over the Saddam Canal and the Tigris River. The explosions created massive fireballs.
"We napalmed both those (bridge) approaches," said Col. Randolph Alles in a recent interview. He commanded Marine Air Group 11, based at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station, during the war. "Unfortunately, there were people there because you could see them in the (cockpit) video.
"They were Iraqi soldiers there. It's no great way to die," he added. How many Iraqis died, the military couldn't say. No accurate count has been made of Iraqi war casualties.
The bombing campaign helped clear the path for the Marines' race to Baghdad.
During the war, Pentagon spokesmen disputed reports that napalm was being used, saying the Pentagon's stockpile had been destroyed two years ago.
Apparently the spokesmen were drawing a distinction between the terms "firebomb" and "napalm." If reporters had asked about firebombs, officials said yesterday they would have confirmed their use.
What the Marines dropped, the spokesmen said yesterday, were "Mark 77 firebombs." They acknowledged those are incendiary devices with a function "remarkably similar" to napalm weapons.
Rather than using gasoline and benzene as the fuel, the firebombs use kerosene-based jet fuel, which has a smaller concentration of benzene.
Hundreds of partially loaded Mark 77 firebombs were stored on pre-positioned ammunition ships overseas, Marine Corps officials said. Those ships were unloaded in Kuwait during the weeks preceding the war.
"You can call it something other than napalm, but it's napalm," said John Pike, defense analyst with GlobalSecurity.org, a nonpartisan research group in Alexandria, Va.
Although many human rights groups consider incendiary bombs to be inhumane, international law does not prohibit their use against military forces. The United States has not agreed to a ban against possible civilian targets.
"Incendiaries create burns that are difficult to treat," said Robert Musil, executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility, a Washington group that opposes the use of weapons of mass destruction.
Musil described the Pentagon's distinction between napalm and Mark 77 firebombs as "pretty outrageous."
"That's clearly Orwellian," he added.
Developed during World War II and dropped on troops and Japanese cities, incendiary bombs have been used by American forces in nearly every conflict since. Their use became controversial during the Vietnam War when U.S. and South Vietnamese aircraft dropped millions of pounds of napalm. Its effects were shown in a Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph of Vietnamese children running from their burned village.
Before March, the last time U.S. forces had used napalm in combat was the Persian Gulf War, again by Marines.
During a recent interview about the bombing campaign in Iraq, Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Jim Amos confirmed aircraft dropped what he and other Marines continue to call napalm on Iraqi troops on several occasions. He commanded Marine jet and helicopter units involved in the Iraq war and leads the Miramar-based 3rd Marine Air Wing.
Miramar pilots familiar with the bombing missions pointed to at least two locations where firebombs were dropped.
Before the Marines crossed the Saddam Canal in central Iraq, jets dropped several firebombs on enemy positions near a bridge that would become the Marines' main crossing point on the road toward Numaniyah, a key town 40 miles from Baghdad.
Next, the bombs were used against Iraqis near a key Tigris River bridge, north of Numaniyah, in early April.
There were reports of another attack on the first day of the war.
Two embedded journalists reported what they described as napalm being dropped on an Iraqi observation post at Safwan Hill overlooking the Kuwait border.
Reporters for CNN and the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald were told by unnamed Marine officers that aircraft dropped napalm on the Iraqi position, which was adjacent to one of the Marines' main invasion routes.
Their reports were disputed by several Pentagon spokesmen who said no such bombs were used nor did the United States have any napalm weapons.
The Pentagon destroyed its stockpile of napalm canisters, which had been stored near Camp Pendleton at the Fallbrook Naval Weapons Station, in April 2001.
Yesterday military spokesmen described what they see as the distinction between the two types of incendiary bombs. They said mixture used in modern firebombs is a less harmful mixture than Vietnam War-era napalm.
"This additive has significantly less of an impact on the environment," wrote Marine spokesman Col. Michael Daily, in an e-mailed information sheet provided by the Pentagon.
He added, "many folks (out of habit) refer to the Mark 77 as 'napalm' because its effect upon the target is remarkably similar."
In the e-mail, Daily also acknowledged that firebombs were dropped near Safwan Hill.
Alles, who oversaw the Safwan bombing raid, said 18 one-ton satellite-guided bombs, but no incendiary bombs, were dropped on the site.
Military experts say incendiary bombs can be an effective weapon in certain situations.
Firebombs are useful against dug-in troops and light vehicles, said GlobalSecurity's Pike.
"I used it routinely in Vietnam," said retired Marine Lt. Gen. Bernard Trainor, now a prominent defense analyst. "I have no moral compunction against using it. It's just another weapon."
And, the distinctive fireball and smell have a psychological impact on troops, experts said.
"The generals love napalm," said Alles, who has transferred to Washington. "It has a big psychological effect."
posted
"The generals love napalm," said Alles, who has transferred to Washington. "It has a big psychological effect."
Posts: 3243 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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4Art, stick it where the Sun dosen't shine..DON'T START MESSING WITH THE VETS..
Show some class and take a hike...
Now I have to get back to work stock trading, just cool it before some people really get pissed off.
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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I urge everyone to watch THIS VIDEO and make up their own minds.
quote:Originally posted by MasterQuinn: Would love to hear comments from the peanut gallery that condon the war on this video.
So, our government doing this is acceptable?
What would YOU think of americans if you were born in Iraq and someone came into your country and burned your family and children who were supposed to be liberating you?
Can you imagine the horror if you were there and tried to surrender only to see your family shot?
History has repeatedly shown us that, in war, the "I was just following orders" defense only applies to the side that "wins." One day that may not be us.
Posts: 3243 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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