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Kate
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Yes Ric, we are all descendants of Noah, which comes from Adam! We were all one race, until God split us all up in Genesis 11. The whole earth, was of one language, and one speech. They built a tower, called the Tower of Babel, and they wanted to reach the heavens with it, but God saw what they were doing, and confounded their language, and scattered them all over the face of the earth! These are what is referred to, as the twelve tribes of Israel! It is where the different races come from! That is why, in the end times, they will be returning to Israel, and they will be of all different races, but practicing the Jewish religion! God is the one who said, when talking to Zechariah, in the Second Chapter, to measure Israel, and that would be their homeland, and in verse 8 He warns anyone that touches Israel, by saying, He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. It goes on to say that the many nations shall be rejoined to the Lord in the day of His return.

There are pilgrimages of Jews that have been going to Israel, the last several years! They have accounted for at least nine different tribes, that have started back! If you want to check further about them, look online for the Twelve tribes of Israel!

I don't know why the Lord chose the Jewish people, except for the fact that Jesus was born a Jew! The Jewish people, for the most part, are still waiting for Jesus to come! They were in the crowd, that had Jesus crucified, because the High Priests, couldn't imagine how a plain gentle man, could command such an audience, and that he was able to do miracles, so they hated him, because he said He was the Son of God, and wanted Him dead, so they could continue on, thinking they were better than everyone else! The Jewish crowd, had their choice, between Jesus and Barabus, and they chose the criminal to be set free! I guess it is like a parent is now! God loves his children, even when they do wrong! He is waiting to forgive them, like the Father in the Prodigal Son!


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Ric
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Still leads to the same overall question Kate. If the Jews wrote the old testament (what at least the christians wanted to translate), how are we to take it literally when they couldn't even believe God when he sent us his son. And if there is human bias then why wouldn't the scholars of the times want to include events and laws to suit there needs and not just Gods laws. Example, pork. It went bad quickly without refrigeration. Many probably died before someone said that might kill you. Did that play into the bible as not eating pork, it is unclean. How do we know for sure about Adam and Eve and Noah when they were past down stories that were eventially written. Because man could not write for thousands of years even since our modern development.
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Kate
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Well, if you read the very beginning of Genesis, it says,In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The Holy Spirit, was the Spirit of God.He was the power that created in the God Head! Jesus at that time, was in Heaven with the Father. Then, this is where I believe many people get confused. It goes on to say that God created the light and the darkness and said it was the first day! It never says how long the earth was here, before God possibly started it over again, and started counting the days! I believe that God may of created the earth, and it was here for thousands of years, and the dinosaurs were here, with Cro Magnon man, etc, until they were destroyed with an ice age, and God started over in the beginning of the earth as we know it, in the scriptures, with Genesis! This is where Adam and Eve came into the picture, and then our mammals! When satan was thrown out of heaven, he was supposed to have gone to a planet named Rahab. Here, this explains it better than I can.

In the pages of the Bible, we read in the opening words of the book of Genesis: "And God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was [the Hebrew word can just as easily be translated "became"] without form and void" (Gen.1:1-2). This word usually translated "was" as it is in this verse in the King James Version, is translated "became" in Genesis 19:26 regarding Lot's wife: "and she became a pillar of salt."

The words translated "without form and void" are from the Hebrew tohu va vohu, and mean, "empty, chaotic, confused." The word tohu is #8414 in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and is defined as "be waste, a desolation (of surface), i.e., a desert," figuratively "a worthless thing," "in vain, confusion, empty place, waste, wilderness." The word vohu is #922 and means "to be empty, a vacuity, an undistinguishable ruin."

But did God create the Earth originally in such a condition? Or did it become that way due to some ancient cosmic event, which could have included a collision with another celestial body, such as a massive planet with an elongated orbit, such as that of a comet?

In the book of Isaiah, we read:


"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:18).


In this verse we see that God did NOT create the Earth "in vain." The Hebrew word here, also, is tohu, and means -- as above -- "a waste, desolation, desert, a worthless thing, empty place," etc. So we see that originally God did NOT create the Earth in a condition of tohu! Therefore, the logical explanation is that somehow, in the process of time, at some point after it was originally created, the Earth BECAME tohu -- a vain, empty, wasted desolation and ruin!

The logical question is -- what happened?

SATAN AND THE FALLEN ANGELS

Text: I Thessalonians 2:9-12

Unexplained things:

There are many things on this earth (megaliths, pyramids, the heads on Easter Island, perfectly round stones some bigger than man is tall, iron poles that never rust, the drawing at Nazacas in Peru, etc.) And off this earth (Mars face and city) that are unusual and unexplainable by our normal way of thinking. Yet, these things demand an answer that fits very well into what the Bible records. Always remember that there is much we don’t understand and most probably never will be able to explain with all certainty. However, as a Christian, I feel a need to explain to the best of my ability with help from God’s Word what these unusual things are. For my own faith and belief I need to be able to place such unusual unexplained things on earth as well as in space with some logic into the order of God’s things. To simply say, "I don’t believe such things exist is foolish." Because some thing is there, we can often see them, feel them, and even see their remains. And the world tries to explain these things in ways that leaves God completely out of it, which is unacceptable.

The question is "what?" To say , "Such things are from hundreds of millions of years ago " blows the Word of God away. The Bible records only about 6,000 years since Adam and Eve were created. I believe that God’s Word, if it is to be believed, must allow some kind of explanation.

The question is "when?" To say, "I don’t understand" and leave it at that is to close one’s mind to new ways of glorifying God.

The question is "how?" God never intended for us to stop thinking, but to think with a view towards faith and with a spiritual end in mind.

The "what’s", "when’s", and "how’s" can be answered if we will look into God’s Word with a new openness. And through it all our faith will not be shaken, but fortified and made ready to endure the never ending questions of an unbelieving world.

The angelical world includes the entire solar system:

To understand the real existence of the world before ours is to blow just about every orthodoxy wide open. Yet, there are too many things in the heavens and on this earth that we cannot explain in any reasonable way. What we have chosen to do is ignore these unexplainable mysteries. To attempt to explain them is to reach beyond our present belief structure.

In the early 1970's NASA sent the Viking 1 space craft to Mars to photograph the planet. Two of those fly by’s revealed a human looking face staring upward into space along with several monuments that look very much like the pyramids of earth. What are these structures? Are they real? Where did they come from? Who made them? Does this prove that the Bible is wrong and can no longer be believed? Many fear that if the face on Mars is determined to be human like, then the Christian religion is doomed. That is exactly what Satan desires to do.

In my opinion there is a logical, reasonable answer for the face and pyramids on Mars. An answer that fits very well into what the Bible records.

Satan’s great civilization of angels:

Lucifer (Satan) was created to lead the angelic hierarchy, ruling over physical civilizations of angels on many planets in our solar system before God recreated everything (Genesis 1:3-2:25). He and the other angels were stewards of creation, building civilizations on the terrestrial planets of our solar system designed to glorify God and His Word.

Satan’s original name was Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12) which means "O shining star, son of morning ". We know that Lucifer was the most beautiful and greatest angel that God ever created. He "sealed the measure" of perfection and beauty of all creation (Ezekiel 28:12). His nature reflected the glory of God, thus his name "shining".

The actual Hebrew words "O shining star" mean "bright, clear sounding or shining" and "boastful and pride". And the Hebrew words "son of morning" means "son of dawning, or earliest, of first". So the correct interpretation of Lucifer is "O clear sounding, boasting son from the beginning". Or what we all understand Lucifer and Satan to be - the boasting angel. This portrays a much clearer picture of this rebellious angel whose realm was destroyed by God.

When Satan rebelled (Isaiah 14:13-14) God destroyed his realm, his literal dwelling places. According to scripture this destruction was swift and decisive. There was a fifth planet between Mars and Jupiter named Rahab (meaning boaster and pride) which God obliterated:

"The pillars of heaven tremble, and are astonished at His (God’s) rebuke. He stirs up the sea with His power, and by His understanding He breaks up the storm. By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent (Satan)" (Job 26:11-13).

"You (God) have broken Rahab in pieces, as one who is slain; You have scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm" (Psalm 89:10 also see Psalm 87:4).

"Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord! Awake as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Are You not the arm that cut Rahab apart, and wounded the serpent (Satan)?" (Isaiah 51:9).

Are not these scriptures speaking of a time before man when God put down Satan’s rebellion? If so, then what is Rahab? For sure it was "broke in pieces" and "cut apart" by God has He destroyed Lucifer’s (Satan’s) rebellion. Could Rahab been Lucifer’s headquarters? Could that headquarters been on a planet which now the asteroid belt?

This could be two different planets or the same one. These names along with Mars are called the "stones of fire" and were capable of supporting some form of life. These were the seat of Satan’s civilization (Ezekiel 28:14-18). And it was a great civilization of angelic beings. It is here that the scripture tells us he reigned over a literal material kingdom known as "Eden the garden of gems and stones" (Ezekiel 28:13).

Before the creation of Adam, the civilization of angels existed and created habitations on the terrestrial planets Rahab, Mars, Earth, and maybe the moon. Throughout scripture there is a consistent reference to the first dwelling places of some of the ancient sons (angels) of God (II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6).

The rebellion of Satan plunged all of creation into a state of corruption, where before it was perfect and glorified (Romans 8:20). God brought fire out of Satan’s midst and the planet Rahab exploded, sending planetesimal and asteroid size pieces of itself into the orbits of the interior terrestrial worlds (Mars and Earth). The present asteroid belt is all that is left of Satan’s planet. Scientist have stated for a long time that the asteroid belt must have been a planet which was destroyed millenniums ago. Present studies have concluded that these asteroids show evidence that they once possessed an atmosphere and water. Presently only planets contain these two elements. Because this planet was totally destroyed, could it be that this was actually Lucifers head quarters.

The force of the explosion destroyed the angelic habitation on Mars and left it a lifeless planet. We presently can see the remains in the Cydonia faces and city. The face on Mars, represents an angelic or cherubim wearing a headdress. Satan is referred to as the "cherub that covers" (Ezekiel 28:14 and 16). Could this face been that of Satan? It is interesting to note that it seems to have the same type of headdress as worn by the Egyptians and Mayan royalty. Further more, the face on Mars is half cherubim and half lion. Just as the Sphinx is half cherubim and half lion.

Even Earth was effected by this destruction. Earth was placed in a deep freeze. "And the earth had become (was something else before) without form and void (to lie waste, desolation, empty, in vain, wilderness, nothing, confusion) and darkness (absence of light and heat) was upon the face of the deep (bringing a sudden deep freeze)" (Genesis 1:2).

Jeremiah’s (4:23-26) description must be of the world before Adam. He looked into the ages before Adam and described the destruction of the earth and heavens. "There were no men, (descendants of Adam), yet there were cities which had been obliterated." The inhabitants of these cities were in fact the angelic host and their leader was Satan, before this rebellion.

Isaiah (34:11) tells us of a earth that was a "line of confusion and stones of emptiness".

Peter (II Peter 3:5-) also describes "the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flood with water". This couldn’t be Noah’s flood, because every mountain was covered by twenty-two and one-half feet of water (Genesis 7:19-20).

God’s original creation must have been perfect:

God created the entire universe, which was a perfect universe (Genesis 1:1). Even the Morning (Day) Star and sons of God (angles) shouted (sung) with joy over the creation (Job 38:7). They would not rejoice over a creation of confusion. God would not nor could He create chaos. God is not the author of confusion (I Corinthians 14:33). He would not create confusion out of nothing. He would create order and harmony (Isaiah 45:18). Yet, that is exactly what Genesis tells us. The earth "became formless and void" (Genesis 1:1). To become something means it was something different before. Genesis tells us that earth was "laid to waste". Some kind of cosmic cataclysmic event took place in the distant past that we have little record of. But what? God’s judgment and destruction of the earth and heavens before the re-creation of earth and the creation of man. When God decided to recreate, this time with humans, He choose planet Earth because it was best suited for mankind. A new creation for a new beginning (Genesis 1:3+). The purpose of the creation of the human race was so they should rule the earth under God.


[This message has been edited by Kate (edited November 17, 2004).]


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glassman
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Kate, you got sore fingers from all that typing?...LOL

Babel...another good one...let's see?? tower of Babel: to reach the heavens? God doesn't want us to reach the heavens? hmmm maybe it was a rocket ship....they would look like a tower......is this prophecy or is it something else....

no matter how you translate it Kate, it can be translated in multiple ways....self righteousness is the problem here


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Ric
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tower of Babel: to reach the heavens?

I think this is a perfect example on why you can't take the bible literally. I am not saying the bible dosen't teach us lessons but to take it as fact? It was written in a time when there were no scientist and they tried to explain the logic of the universe in the only way they could. Its like folk tells passed down through generations. It changes a little each time and becomes a grand event long before it is ever written down. The scriptures in the bible were written by scholers of the times to give the people a sense of direction and laws of god. Fables are used to teach lessons on what will happen if you disobey these laws. Of course you can't see God. If that wasn't told to the people then they would wonder why God doesn't appear to them. Put what always gets me is those who said they were healed by God while there are so many that suffer and pray for help and never recieve it. Yet God says in the bible that he has no respect of person. But the worst thing is there is so much proof out there on how the earth took shape but since its not in the Bible its untrue. Come on. God will punish a group of people trying to build a tower to the heavens but not a man that goes to the moon in a spaceship. God destroyed the earth by a flood yet there has been no evidence of a mass flood in fossil records. And many have tried to prove it with no luck. Evolution is a proven fact, they have the fossil records. Yet we can't have evolved because the bible says so. Man wrote the sciptures for the masses. You can claim that God gave them the message but there is no evidence of this except our own belief. And the ones that wrote it made themself more superior then other races. You know believing in God dosen't mean you have to take the bible literally. It means living your life by example and love your neighbors as yourself and excepting god in your life.

Ric

[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 18, 2004).]


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Kate
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Skip this one, and go to the next. It is a repeat. Don't know why it did that. Maybe God wanted you to read it twice!

You could'nt of even read what I painstakenly copied, for you to read! Why won't God heal some, while he heals others? My mother died of cancer, but my Dad didn't. Is one of them better than the other? Does God love one of them more than the other? Why did God answer the prayers for one, and not the other? Because there is a time for everything! My mother went to live with God, and that is the ultimate healing! Her time on this earth was done! She is in the best place she could ever be! My Dad was healed in his earthy body, to be a witness to others, for the time he has left on this earth, before he goes to be with the Lord too! To share with others, how God has healed him, and to give them hope. He can be of comfort to someone, who is going through what he went through! It isn't all for nothing! We all have one life to live! If we choose to have Jesus as Savior, we will live eternally with him in heaven someday! Do you realize what eternity is? This life is NOTHING, except what we do for Jesus! Pfhhhhhhht, it's gone, and where will be be after? What will be have to tell God, that we can be accountable for?

[This message has been edited by Kate (edited November 18, 2004).]


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Kate
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You could'nt of even read what I painstakenly copied, for you to read! Why won't God heal some, while he heals others? My mother died of cancer, but my Dad didn't. Is one of them better than the other? No, God is no respector of persons! Does God love one of them more than the other? No, God is no respector of persons! Why did God answer the prayers for one, and not the other? Because there is a time for everything! My mother went to live with God, and that is the ultimate healing! Her time on this earth was done! She is in the best place she could ever be! My Dad was healed in his earthy body, to be a witness to others, for the time he has left on this earth, before he goes to be with the Lord too! To share with others, how God has healed him, and to give them hope. He can be of comfort to someone, who is going through what he went through! It isn't all for nothing! We all have one life to live! If we choose to have Jesus as Savior, we will live eternally with him in heaven someday! Do you realize what eternity is? This life is NOTHING, except what we do for Jesus! Pfhhhhhhht, it's gone, and where will be be after? What will be have to tell God, that we can be accountable for? Being a "good" person?
If you read what I posted in the above post, it completely blows away the evolution theory! I didn't want to get into it before, because it is very deep, but you asked me!

I don't read where God punished the people, at the Tower of Babel! He just separated them, all over the world! If he is powerful enough to create the universe, why wouldn't he be able to do this? You guys contradict yourselves, when you say you believe in a God, but that he can't do this or do that! It all comes down to faith!

2Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: for we walk by faith, not by sight: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we my be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new!

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and not have works? can faith save him?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not work, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Just read my post, THEN we can discuss!


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glassman
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Kate, the answer to your question? i already told you that Art explained it.
re-read his statements...


...energy can not be lost or gained, only transformed...

if you need to call on Jesus to invoke your power, that's fine.....
but when you start trying to tell everybody else that it's Jesus doing it for you and we must worship him as you do, well, you are gonna get some greif girl.....


the lessons are all in the bible, the guys that are making money off it by controlling and manipulating your life with it are not nice people......

pastors and ministers, i'm not talking about....but millionaires and multi's that are trying to gain political favor???????


you do not have the corner on interpreting the bible...

and some of the references you made to to Satans home being destroyed have scientific merit, and some don't....
ice ages didn't destroy the world...
but 65 million years ago it ALMOST got destroyed....and Mars may very well have gotten peeled like an orange by an NEO.....
and i am more than a little ticked off that we can spend hundreds of billions to fight over the name of God, but we can't get our act together long enough to set up a defense system to protect ourselves from the next big rock to come along...

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 18, 2004).]


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Ric
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Kate, I did read it. Thats why I said what I did. There are proven facts that the church is brainwashing people into believing isn't true. And on the healing note. My wife nearly died before we were married. Her father, a paster, says that god saved her life and healed her of the disease that was killing her. At one point, the doctor started to pronouce her dead when she started breathing again. Yet she lives in so much pain now. She just lost a transplant she had to have after the disease damaged her kidneys beyond repair. She back on dialysis after being in the hospital for over 180 days with complications. Why did god save her life only to let her live in pain? Well I degress. The point is that the bible was written by priest commissioned by King James so he could read it and not have to take the work of the priest. The scripts that were translated were sometimes misquoted because of the difficulty of translating latin to english. The original scripts were not even in latin, they were translated. And it still comes down to the fact that old Jews wrote those old scripts. After all that not all were translated, only the ones that the priest wanted to translate were.

But yet some take it as the literal word of god and refuse to except facts that a modern era has proven. Oh well, no one is changing here. Just stating not all believe blindly in something. Yet because we don't believe blindly in it, dosen't make us less of a believer in god.

Ric


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Kate
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I don't agree with Art, Glass, and I don't agree with you either about this issue! I have been posting what I believe, for the last month. That is part of free will! I never said you had to worship Jesus like I do, I'm only sharing my own faith! As far as the Bible being literal, try reading some modern day books, on what computers have discovered about the Bible! Read a book called, The Mysterious Bible Codes, by Grant Jeffrey. This book shows where there are words and sentences, running through the Bible, that only a computer could find! He's got several more out, that support the Bibles history, and you can read them if you are so inclined. He wasn't a Christian either, before he started looking for the truth! I can't see you guys doing it though, because you think I'm a nut case, and you want to believe what you want to believe! Like I 've said before, if you want to believe your family came from apes, that is ok, but I believe mine came from Adam!

Ric, I'm sorry your wife is in pain! Nothing about that, is easy to live with! All I can say, is there is a reason for God to allow things like this, not because he is mean, but because He sees the larger picture, and knows that this life is but an instant! What people has she affected around her, during her life? Who has gained strength, from her strength. I don't know the answer here, as I don't know why my friend who prayed with me, to have the burns go away on my arm, is steadily declining with MS, and praising God, because she knows Him, and wants to be used by Him, to help others! Why did Joni Eriksen Tada, become totally paralyzed from the neck down, to spend the rest of her life Praising God, and sharing her lifes story? Only God knows these things! We are only to accept them on faith! If you read the chapter of Job, it has a remarkably good example of putting God first, no matter what happens to you, and having God make it all up to you, whether in this life, or the next. It's ok that you guys feel different than I do, I just want us all to be sure that we are right, so no one ends up in the wrong place! I think I've hit a nerve with Glass, so I'm going to stop discussing this now! God bless!


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Kate
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Oh, and one of the gifts of the Spirit, is interpretation!
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