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didn't see any of that about protestors in Boston on the news i guess the news is all liberal...LOL
seriously.. i do have a problem with this party Faithful thing.....
it was not lost on me that they chose the Battle Hymn of the Republic at the services held right after 9-11. Afghanistan was a correct war.... if we are going to war we need to know why....and the 9-11 commission was pretty clear that we were wrong on Iraq.... Bush won't admit it...
here's the real scary part...we may need to do something about Iran real soon....
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On the oil thing--the Saudi Oil Minister admitted that they had a plan in place to lower oil prices going into the election on one of the Sunday morning TV talk shows..no surprise there... i guess the thing that surprises me is how well all the BS'ing these guys do WORKS...
like my dad used to say...its all fun and games 'till somebody loses an eye...(or in this case their life)
quote:Originally posted by glassman: what am i missing here??? i heard it CLEARLY-- he said it.... look in the transcripts....i didn't expect him to say he screwed up--but God wants us to invade other countries??????
even the republican back patters on Fox acknowledged it..help from beyond the stars.....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 02, 2004).]
Here is a cut and paste of the part of the text posted by The Associated Press in question:
The progress we and our friends and allies seek in the broader Middle East will not come easily, or all at once. Yet Americans, of all people, should never be surprised by the power of liberty to transform lives and nations. That power brought settlers on perilous journeys, inspired colonies to rebellion, ended the sin of slavery, and set our Nation against the tyrannies of the 20th century. We were honored to aid the rise of democracy in Germany and Japan and Nicaragua and Central Europe and the Baltics — and that noble story goes on. I believe that America is called to lead the cause of freedom in a new century. I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man. I believe all these things because freedom is not America's gift to the world, it is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited September 03, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited September 03, 2004).]
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g- man, i'm not a party hard-liner and feel we did the right thing by going in Iraq, (very worried about WMD)(my belief is they are somewhere). too many countries intelligence is my reasoning....
iran is not scary, its about time to take that country seriously.
keep watching to see how those meetings go with NK, we have both koreas us china and couple other countries talking together...
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thank you timberman. that is in fact what i heard.
there were a few other allusions as well, but that does say that he believes he has been pursuing war as an agent of God. in the past i have read numerous conservative commentators claiming him to be a democratic evangelist but that is the first time i have heard it directly from him. i do not like to discuss religion. but i do not believe the Creator wants us to carry the Terrble Swift Sword to third world nations that can't defend themselves. and Iraq didn't and couldn't defend itself as PROVEN by the resistance they offered when we invaded. we have been attacked and we must respond and plan for the future. but we are not winnining over our enemies minds and hearts...we are creating more... and i clearly heard numerous world leaders warn of that PRIOR to invading Iraq.
by the way---i was only looking for a sign that he has remorse in him ..instead he comes out like this....
quote:Originally posted by keithsan: g- man, i'm not a party hard-liner and feel we did the right thing by going in Iraq, (very worried about WMD)(my belief is they are somewhere). too many countries intelligence is my reasoning....
iran is not scary, its about time to take that country seriously.
keep watching to see how those meetings go with NK, we have both koreas us china and couple other countries talking together...
they have nukes already,
you watching this russian disaster.....
yeah Keith and S Korea just admitted they have purified uranium ILLEGALLY.... Pakistan made them already and they are BARELY legit (as far as being an ally)......
i want to support them in their pursuit of LIFE, LIBERTY, AND HAPPINESS.....
the political debates, and the direction they have taken are making it more difficult.... i see the direction being chosen by the president's supporters
as i said in the spring there are no American's in the Senate, the House or the White House that are soft on terrorism --
it's BS rhetoric and i angry at MY PARTY for even insinuating it.....
and yes i will keep my party because i still believe in fiscal responsibility.... but the Iraq war is going to be big bill, and SOMEDAY we are going to have to pay more taxes because of it....
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paying more taxes may come real soon. missed that S.Korea thing, but I like the route of all countries getting together to shut down that crazy little man with the wild hair.
step one pre-bombing.
Fiscal responsibility is currently out the window, but, these terrorists are nuts. Attack on our soil gotta fix everything thats been going to hell for years.
The spending sucks but currently acceptable for me.
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well, i don't know if i have anybodies attention or not...... but this might make a few things more clear to you if you are still here..... Christian Zionists, an Evangelical subset whose ranks are estimated at 20 million in the US, have in the past two decades poured millions of dollars of donations into Israel, formed a tight alliance with the Likud and other Israeli politicians seeking an expanded "Greater Israel," and mobilized grass-roots efforts to get the US to adopt a similar policy.
Christian Zionist leaders today have access to the White House and strong support within Congress, including the backing of the two most recent majority leaders in the House of Representatives.
this isn't from some left-wing liberal group either...... this is BRAGGING...from a powerful religious magazine.....
To this end, Christian groups have sponsored the migration of thousands of Jews from Russia, Ethiopia, and other countries. They've funneled resources into social programs for Israeli communities, and they encourage churches in the US to support Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 04, 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by glassman: well, i guess we aren't going to see an admission of error.....i can't support somebody who thinks they are perfect and on a mission from God....
back to the swift boat ads..... let's see, Kerry was testifiying about the horrors of war on TV and in front of congress........ Vets feelings are hurt.... hmmmmmmm
what was George Bush doing then???? i would like to see some film of him being given a sobriety test.......too bad they didn't have cameras in cop cars back then....
Glass I used to think you were only 12% commie, but now I am convinced you are atleast 75%. Kerry was not testifying he was telling a story, a story he now says wasn't true. He has now said he never once saw war crimes committed. What you fail to understand is that his words after his safe return to the states helped our enemy. Do you understand that. He single handedly gave the enemy their best weapon against us. To top it all off, his words were absolute bullsh!t. He never once witnessed or talked to anyone who did witness war crimes. He made it up. Namm was a crucial battle in the cold war and John Effin Kerry did everything in his power to make us lose it. How the hell can anyone support someone who has done so much to kill this country. Please review his voting record. Please note he has voted against every major weapon system our millitary now uses. Were it up to John Effin Kerry our millitary would be armed with sling shots. We would not be the only global super power. We would have lost the cold war. In esscence we would be France. Is that what you really want? Is that what the majority of Americans want?
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hi DQR, i was wondering what you were up to...glad to see you are OK...
commie?? LOL... the RNC was whitewash to try to make Royalty of the republican party look centrist and you know it.... i am a true Son of the American Revolution--ON BOTH SIDES of my family. i hate imperialism....
matter of fact, i qualify on all 4 of my grandparents...LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 04, 2004).]
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Previous quotes I sort of question, not to start a war or anything, but,,,
I never said we didn't create Saddam. Glass on the WMD part, let me ask you a question. You have a neighbor, you know he isn't all there, He is a known killer. The neighbor on your other side says "Hey glassman, I hear the guy next door has a few guns in his house and plans to kill your wife and kids." Then another neighbor comes over and say he definatly has guns and planning on using them on your family. Would you sit around and wait for your family to get attacked? Just curious.
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glassman Member posted September 01, 2004 13:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [QUOTE Then another neighbor comes over and say he definatly has guns and planning on using them on your family. Would you sit around and wait for your family to get attacked? Just curious. [/B][/QUOTE] of course not..... but i also know better than to take out my own gun and blow his head off cuz i WILL go to jail(in most states) unless he has brought a gun INSIDE MY HOUSE....front porch doesn't even count in most states(i'm not sure about Texas)....
Glass, don't you consider 9/11, on our front porch, or inside our house? Or are you thinking only of YOUR house? I know you don't want to shoot someone, because your neighbor might of said it is true, but the terrorists WERE HERE! We watched it, some of us LIVE, on TV! The criminals CAME! They threatened our families, and friends, and neighbors, and killed a lot of loved ones!
Also,since you mentioned the Christian Zionist article, and God, and what they were doing, if you are interested, here are the scriptures that I'm sure they are trying to follow. God commands us all, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem in Psalm 122:6. He talks about the gathering of Jews to Israel, and returning to the homeland, in Isaiah 43:1-6, and Isaiah 60:1/22. He talks about the danger of harming Israel in Obadiah 10-15, and He explains that Israel is "The Apple of His Eye" in Zechariah 2:8.
Personally, I prefer having a President, who tries to do what the scripture asks of us to do, and supports Israel! Only the Lord God knows what he would do to us, if we didn't!! I can't tell anyone what to believe, but since I believe in God, and his Word, I take it at face value!
As it says in Matthew 22:37to 40, We are to love God first, and then our neighbors as ourselves. It is God's greatest commandments. Just who do YOU think, GOD considers our neighbors?
From my own observations, what I get from what the President is saying, is that freedom is a gift from God. When I read what the President said in one of the other posts, I didn't see anywhere, where he said that God told him to attack Irac! Where did you see that? Not trying to start a war here, just have to add my 2 cents!
quote:Originally posted by DiQuiRiesco: Glass I used to think you were only 12% commie, but now I am convinced you are atleast 75%. Kerry was not testifying he was telling a story, a story he now says wasn't true. He has now said he never once saw war crimes committed. What you fail to understand is that his words after his safe return to the states helped our enemy. Do you understand that. He single handedly gave the enemy their best weapon against us. To top it all off, his words were absolute bullsh!t. He never once witnessed or talked to anyone who did witness war crimes. He made it up. Namm was a crucial battle in the cold war and John Effin Kerry did everything in his power to make us lose it. How the hell can anyone support someone who has done so much to kill this country. Please review his voting record. Please note he has voted against every major weapon system our millitary now uses. Were it up to John Effin Kerry our millitary would be armed with sling shots. We would not be the only global super power. We would have lost the cold war. In esscence we would be France. Is that what you really want? Is that what the majority of Americans want?
ISSUES....OK I saw the same RNC speeches.... they were all about HATE. Ronald Reagan was a great leader, he represented conservative values, when he was running and in office, i was a conservative. I have not changed. The conservative view has broadened, and left me MUCH closer to the middle.
I am not even close to being a true liberal, as 99% of the people i have associated with on Univ. campuses around the country would tell you. I have been X'ed off of a lot of invitiation lists.
Kerry: He told what was told to him, and presented it that way when he testified, he DID NOT LIE. I have been told the same stories (by people who really did it).They are TRUE. the swift boat LIARS are the ones that are making up stories.
I find it interesting that Nam was entered by Dems and ended by Repubs. Kerry DID NOT lose the war for US, we (the politicians) never spent the energy to win it........
and saying Nam was critical to the cold war??? we won the cold war even tho WE LOST NAM, remember?
We haven't won the war in IRAQ either despite Bush's declaration. BUSH isn't spending the energy we need to win it either. The war in Iraq is a farce....Why? because we are not likely to end up with a friendly government there. WHY? because we are in a holy war with Iranian Islam, and Iranian Islam is well on the way to ending up with control there. Freedom(religious) is what is going to lose that war for us in the end. They will have elections, and they will elect RELIGIOUS LEADERS..and Bush is acting like one now TOOO......
I am no turn the other cheek wimp. But i am a FISCAL conservative and we are not spending our money wisely. We have empowered Islam--whether or not they are fundamentalists or moderates in the end is a GAMBLE and i don't like to GAMBLE......
this isn't a checkers game.... the pitbull mentality is running wild and pitbulls (when they go mad) get put down in the end......
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Glass, don't you consider 9/11, on our front porch, or inside our house? Or are you thinking only of YOUR house? I know you don't want to shoot someone, because your neighbor might of said it is true, but the terrorists WERE HERE! We watched it, some of us LIVE, on TV! The criminals CAME! They threatened our families, and friends, and neighbors, and killed a lot of loved ones!
Also,since you mentioned the Christian Zionist article, and God, and what they were doing, if you are interested, here are the scriptures that I'm sure they are trying to follow. God commands us all, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem in Psalm 122:6. He talks about the gathering of Jews to Israel, and returning to the homeland, in Isaiah 43:1-6, and Isaiah 60:1/22. He talks about the danger of harming Israel in Obadiah 10-15, and He explains that Israel is "The Apple of His Eye" in Zechariah 2:8.
Personally, I prefer having a President, who tries to do what the scripture asks of us to do, and supports Israel! Only the Lord God knows what he would do to us, if we didn't!! I can't tell anyone what to believe, but since I believe in God, and his Word, I take it at face value!
As it says in Matthew 22:37to 40, We are to love God first, and then our neighbors as ourselves. It is God's greatest commandments. Just who do YOU think, GOD considers our neighbors?
From my own observations, what I get from what the President is saying, is that freedom is a gift from God. When I read what the President said in one of the other posts, I didn't see anywhere, where he said that God told him to attack Irac! Where did you see that? Not trying to start a war here, just have to add my 2 cents!
first: 9/11 was Osama Bin alive too long...NOT SADDAM....there is NO QUESTION OF IT..Cheney and BUSH BOTH said we have PROOF.. they did not say MAYBE we suspect them they said we have PROOF.....they sent my and your HEROES to Iraq for their own personal battle.....they blamed the CIA for their mistake...not very Christian....
think back to watching the invasion..we all believed Bush then....now he changes his story and you accept it? why do you accept such a big mistake???
Second: The Christian Zions are attempting to satisfy the prophecies to bring about the final days. Read up on it..I have. this from their site http://www.israelmybeloved.com/
The Bible tells us that the end of this wicked age will not come until God has restored the Jews to the land of Israel, the city of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, and until He has restored them in their relationship to Himself
Third: Bush is saying very CLEARLY that GOD is on his side and that he is right. If you believe in God then vote for ME. This is his REVISED justification attacking a sovereign nation. He is using OUR religion to justify his actions. If you don't see the connection i am pointing to it's because you dont want to see it.....
i believe that he made a big mistake on his own, now he shoud stand up and take the consequences......
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Well, Glass, I never heard him say that God is on his side! Where is that quote? I may need to read up on the Zionists, that's for sure, but I was stating what I believe as a Christian, with the scriptures I posted! The Jews won't return, until it is in God's time, and if the Zionists are a part of that timing, who are we to say? God has allowed other people, Christians, and non Christians down through the ages, to bring about our history, to fulfill the scriptures. Personally, I'd love for Jesus to come, and rescue me out of this place, but that isn't for me to say when He will come, so I just keep plodding on!
As for President Bush, I believe for myself, as a Christian, as it says in the Word, when we receive Jesus as Savior, we are given one or more gifts to use, for the body of Christ. Since President Bush says HE has accepted Jesus as Savior, I would rather believe that he has the best interests at heart, for everyone. He is asking the Lord for wisdom in making his decisions, and believing in faith, that he is doing what is right. He may have been given the gift of wisdom or knowledge, only God knows! I never heard him say that God told him to attack Irac! The scripture also commands us to support our government! Not to support what we feel is wrong, but to pray for our leaders, so that they make the right decisions! Maybe if more of us would do this, things would be a whole lot better, and I wouldn't be making people uncomfortable with my beliefs!
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Kate, you are not making me uncomfortable with your beliefs. If our founding fathers had followed the directions of the bible concerning our Governors, we would still be part of England, and we would still be slaveowners...i am a Christian that is very uncomfortable with the OBVIOUS manipulation of our FAITH for political gains...
I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man.
this statement is clear to ME that he is JUSTIFYING his use of military force to do GODs work....i don't think it can be interpreted ANY other way.....this attitude has been used to start more wars than end them...
two wrongs don't make a right.....
i would also like to point out you that this is a LONG-TERM plan and the war was NOT something these guys just cooked up on 9-11....... try some of this on for size and be sure to read the NAMES and the DATES..... http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
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[ I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man.
this statement is clear to ME that he is JUSTIFYING his use of military force to do GODs work....i don't think it can be interpreted ANY other way.....this attitude has been used to start more wars than end them...
thats not how i read it. what a surprise eh.... i cannot connect the god thing to liberating people, i think its great to liberate folks who want it ( not saying they do) really dont get the god connection. I'm pretty simple in my ways and educated in some of other peoples ways. Liberating the oppressed is a good thing, keeping them from being oppressed again MAY keep them from becoming terrorists....
I still get chills looking at that disaster in Russia what a mess. the eu called putin for explanation and he said that was blasfamous (sp.) I thought his army and the chechans behavior was a disgrace on both sides dont know if god fits in their somewhere. Just disgusted with people and ignorances.
P.S. The DNC was very negative also read kennedy and the Reverand Sharpton speaches. whats fair is fair.
Bush got a big bump of this in first poll taken before his speach (time) Kerry only got a burp from DNC. that doesnt bold well for him.
Again, as i stated last year, picking kerry was one of the dumbest moves the Dems could make besides picking kennedy. picking Edwards was smart. he gets some southern votes. but kerry isnt a middle of the road option to bush and that will hurt him.
plus he says he would have attacked iraq too. so if thats the problem, there is not an alternative.
i'll post some stocks later on, been busy this week.
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I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man. I believe all these things because freedom is not America's gift to the world, it is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world.
i guess you have to read the next sentence too.... and listen to the whole speech--he made several references and i am not the only one who heard it..like i said even the republicans on FOX commented on it...
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as you look around in the site see if you can find some policy advice on Al-Queda/Afghanistan PRIOR to 9-11--i can't, but i might have missed it...
you can plainly see that this Iraq war was insisted upon YEARS in advance and these guys took advantage of our FEAR to implement it.....and they WERE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I've read those articles, and I still don't see it quite the same way that you do. I believe the Bible is literal. There are so many places in there, if you look, where it tells you that it is inspired by God. Man wrote it, but God gave him the words. I tend to believe that a God who can create a universe, won't have things in there, that he doesn't want in there. There are a few translation errors, but that has happened after the origional transcripts were made. There are a lot of people, that don't believe this, so they can continue living in the sins of their choosing! It isn't as though God hasn't called others to war in His Word! Just read the chapter on Joshua! God also destroyed cities, because people were evil, and he also flooded the earth, to destroy evil people! Do you realize, that if every single person on this planet, would do what is in God's Word, we wouldn't have any problems at all, anywhere, because we would be like Jesus, which is all any one of us, can strive for, our entire lives! That doesn't make any of us perfect! All we can do, is try! Look, I'm not trying to argue, I just had to take a stand for what I believe! I can see that we will have to agree to disagree!
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i think it is also important to point out that Bush claims to have "inherited" a bad economy from clinton (i don't like clinton), he may have, but then you also have to admit that he inherited clinton's military too don't you..... i am proud of our, military. they are doing, and have been doing a great job...ALL BY THEMSELVES......
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Yes, I also am very proud of our military! My brother was in desert storm! I have a son that is draft age! I get really angry with people, who say negative things about our soldiers, when THEY believe in what they are doing! Can you imagine being over there, with all of the stress, and hearing a lot of negative stuff on the internet, or in the news, from our people over here? I'm not talking about you, I'm glad you support them too! For a thought to ponder, just how do people feel back here in the USA, when their own friends and family say negative things about them, when they are doing the best that they can? Not very good I'd bet! Would get you down in the dumps, and not thinking as clearly as you should, which is something our soldiers need to do, to stay alert and safe? Again, only making a point! I believe in war, when it is necessary, but I am also a peace maker! Sometimes we have to have war first, to reach peace, not just for us, but for others! Again, my two cents!
As far as the economy goes, they said today on the news, that the unemployment is much lower than it was, and considering the effects of 9/11, I think we are doing pretty well! Neither Clinton, or the first George Bush, had to deal with that issue in their presidency! I hate to think about how the devastation in Florida will affect things, but we can't help that except by praying, and support! I just keep watching the storm on the news, and praying it moves the other way!
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We can't pull out of Iraq now... that' why i started this thread....nobody in their right mind thinks pulling out now would do anything but hand the Iranians a victory. As deeply divided as this country is, we can't afford to have these terribly negative campaign tactics..... That is why i am more than a little angry at my party. if we were not in war, i would thouroughly enjoy the spectacle. i am not anti-war, i am anti-stupidity....
peole keep saying mike moore started it...but he's not a politician...he's lot of other nasty, creepy things, but not a politician....
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I agree with you on the Michael Moore thing! I also saw President Bush, speaking the other day, and he said that he didn't support the swift boat adds, and that he was glad that John Kerry had served his country! I think he was speaking in Pa, not sure, I was listening to the news as I worked. I don't know as I believe that some of our party started all of this, I believe the swift boat veterans did, but I know that some of them are probably pushing it along, which I don't agree with, unless they have proof that it is the absolute truth!
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i heard it it too and i responded by saying thank you, i think it's on the first page of this thread. since then tho, the campaign has been very negative(IMO)and it seems to be an effective campaign tool, which is disturbing me even more.....
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Kate-Based on your statements i have to assume that President Bush's convention speech did in fact appeal to you as a Christian. This concerns me. It is not my intent to question the Faith of anybody. Not even the president. However, i want you to think and PRAY on how YOU would feel if the shoes were on the other feet. That is the job of the State Dept. I am not trying to justify any terrorist act. I want you to use your own beliefs to work through the concepts and the desparation that could lead someone to send their child out into the world with a backpack full of explosives instead of BOOKS. People are doing it in the middle east. They have lost hope. They have lost hope because people like Rumsfeld, Cheney and Jeb Bush have been pushing for their destrucion(in their opinion) for a long time. Evil thrives on the failed hopes of peoples. We are feeding it. Since we invaded Iraq, the number of terror attacks WORLWIDE has increased dramatically. Sure, we have been OK since9-11, but, the rest of the world HAS NOT. That's one of the reasons we are hated. It's not because we are the best. Most of the world has no intention of becoming 2 income households.They see life very differently from us. They do not feel the need for more THINGS and SERVICES. We have no RIGHT or responsibility to impose our way of life on people. We have a responsibility to offer them the chance to adopt it and we offer that chance thru LEGAL immigration. As far as the Bible, i am praying for you (and all of the Zionists) to focus a little more on the NEW testament particularly the WORDS of JESUS.
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And what words of Jesus, would you be referring to Glassman? I sort of wonder where you are coming from, especially since I belong to a non-denominational Bible Church, that lives by the Word of God, Old AND new testaments, and the whole church pretty much feels the way that I do! I work at the election polls, and we live,there are around ninety percent Republicans, and for the most part, they ALL voted for Bush, and most of our Democrats did also! I am glad that people pray for me, I will never turn that down, but I would like to know to what you are referring to in the scriptures! The ones that I go by, are in the New Testament, Matthew 22: 37 to 40, the words of Jesus,"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.
I consider anyone that isn't me, my neighbor! Anyone that is oppressed, starving, being tortured, bombed, raped, forced into slavery, these are my neighbors! Jesus commands us to love thy neighbor! How do we do this, by sitting by, and doing nothing, allowing them to live on in their ignorance,(I don't mean that offensively, but when people are tyrants and oppress you, you can't vote, you can't go to school,you don't have the opportunity to be educated, especially about the love of Jesus! How will they ever know? The Lord wants us to share the news of his love, grace, and salvation, with all four corners of the earth! Not just the ones on our small hunk of the earth, the USA! It isn't just about freeing the Iraqi people, it is also about showing them that there are people out there, that actually care about them. I believe that President Bush is trying to do this! As I said before, we will have to agree to disagree!
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Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.
I consider anyone that isn't me, my neighbor! Anyone that is oppressed, starving, being tortured, bombed, raped, forced into slavery, these are my neighbors! Jesus commands us to love thy neighbor! How do we do this, by sitting by, and doing nothing, allowing them to live on in their ignorance,(I don't mean that offensively, but when people are tyrants and oppress you, you can't vote, you can't go to school,you don't have the opportunity to be educated, especially about the love of Jesus! How will they ever know? The Lord wants us to share the news of his love, grace, and salvation, with all four corners of the earth! Not just the ones on our small hunk of the earth, the USA! It isn't just about freeing the Iraqi people, it is also about showing them that there are people out there, that actually care about them. I believe that President Bush is trying to do this! As I said before, we will have to agree to disagree! [/QUOTE]
The WHOLE CHURCH- once again you make my point Kate. Bush and Cheney have been campaigning thru the churches..SHAME on them. They have been using Church rosters to solicit funds..this is fact.Many churches have complained about it. They have used our religion for their own political gains. They are using the churches to convince you to commit crimes against humanity. The whole world is watching us. Those BOMBS we tried to kill Saddam with? How many children got murdered? Saddam didn't.....we did it for their own good??? as i said earlier in the thread WAR=HELL and these politicians are making more of it not less.
I am not going to get into scriptural debates with you...why? it's a waste of time we don't have...
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i don't know how any Christian could watch the Republican National Convention and ignore the PURE hatred expressed by the republicans and Zell Miller toward John Kerry. This was not a normal convention. Bush was the ONLY one who did not act like a hate-filled person. His speech writers did a good job of portraying him as a kindly father figure SURROUNDED by and compared to his fellows.
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I don't know where you saw that I was talking about the "whole church" Glassman. I am talking about what I believe we should do, as our "Christian" duty. A christian, isn't someone that is Catholic, Protestant, Buddist, Jewish, etc! It is someone, that has acknowledged that God came to earth, in the form of a man, his son Jesus, who lived to show us by example, how we are to live our lives! He then died on the cross, to take away the sins of the world, and if we accept who he was, is, and will be, and that he died for each of us, we are saved by grace, and promised eternal life! Then, the form of the Holy Spirit, who is the power of the Trinity, comes to dwell within us. That is MY definition of a Christian! I understand that you don't want a debate, and that is fine, I never want to fight about the scripture, but this is how I believe! I care about you, and what you think though, so I will end this as always! I will agree to disagree!
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but,,, 
