posted
if president Bush doesn't renounce the swift boat adds, he risks losing a significant numbers of veteran/military supporters.
the ads are of the same ilk as Moore's "documentary" only worse cuz they aren't even done under the "guise" of commerce or "art"--they are one of the most repulsive campaign tactics in US history....
posted
i don't think so.... i'm a republican.... i have several good friends that were on the ground, and in the water there.... i was a gunners mate in the USN.... i was NOT in the NAM....(too young) the REAL issue here is not about Kerry.....
it's about the integrity of my party
at least one of these people is DEFINITELY in steering committees for the GOP.....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited August 21, 2004).]
posted
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant.
i have a friend who was marine recon....he will talk on rare occaions...(can you say Jaegermeister?)--war is hell- anybody who says different is a liar....
the guy on the front page of the web-site?? Ken Cordier?? GOP party old boy... holds political appointments in the VA???
we face a war on terror.... whoever wins needs to be able to lead.... this kind of stuff hurts the whole country....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited August 21, 2004).]
posted
Glass, Glass, Glass... Where should I begin? The mere fact that Kerry has more than one version of this story should tell you one thing. The fact that Kerry wrote his own recomendation should tell you another. The reality of that day as far as I can tell is that one of the boats hit a mine at which point all boats but Kerry's rushed to their aid. Kerry in true French tradition turned tale and ran... so abruptly infact that one of his crew members fell overboard. And in an act of true bravery Kerry turned around and pulled his man out of the water. Kerry is the only one who states he was under fire during the ordeal. Every other boat member in the area says it was a mine... Why the discrepency? Kerry heard something and his first thought was "run". Everyone else heard something and their first thought was "I must help my brother" Granted the last part was somewhat of an adlib but you get the point. Next question is why do you insist on watching CNN/ MSNBC? Why not give fox a try? Next question is, what is wrong with having an offence during a presidential election? Yet another question is, how will Bush lose veterans if he does nothing to stop these ads? Kerry is the one calling them baby killers, not bush. Kerry is the reason they were spit on when they returned. Kerry aided and abetted the enemy during a critical battle of the cold war and somehow Bush should shy away from that realization? Nah man Bush should allow even want these veterans to come forward. All veterans of that war and others should come forward and talk about Kerry's actions after returning to the states.
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and god bless america's fighting troops over seas! 'dem brown people gotta learn not to mess with amerr-ica's milli-tarry power, to fight da terrarists and their dubbaya-M-ds!
Q the rest of the world:
(even though they're just dying in an oil war unbehalf of profiteering gluttons, while ignorant people clap their hands in support like the obedient little bitches that they are)
posted
Hey DQR i was wondering how long it would take you to find this... as you know, i'm a "liberal" republican, yes, we exist and are not nearly as rare as some would like you to believe....
KEVIN- do me a favor... stick to Canada on this one OK, we have an election to decide and if you go to FLA you can probably find a way vote in it....LOL
DQR my issue is simple....if Bush starts running a scorched earth campaign, we are all shafted...no more, no less.. i started humming this tune in the spring, and this is scorched earth if ever there was.....war is hell, nobody has film of what happened and people are gonna believe what they want to..... a lot of guys i served with, and know, had problems with what they did in the nam...and i'll say no more about that.. a lot of guys had no problems with what they did...... Bush didn't even go...... that's why this is happening and i think it will hurt him, much more than it will hurt Kerry.....
my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with picking a winner or loser--its about US and especially our troops in harms way...think about how they will be affected by all of this... whoever wins will be the CIC....
posted
I'm sorry i cant see these adds from greece, this anit-bush/american country. was anti-clinton also but they liked his sexual attitude.
I know Kerrys side has been tooting his own horn on that war record......
Therefore in my book attacking back is fair game especially with veterans against kerry.
This is politics no free rides, if bush does take it to far, he will feel it in the polls, this is early enough that he will be forgiven if he pulls them. But, it may also put some doubt on kerry in voters eyes.
obviously he has 3 stories for everything, i find that amusing though.
posted
G-man, as usuall you have peaked my interest so I went looking around. I dont like Dole personally but like the fact that kerry should release all war records....
that may clear up some of the crap also like some of his other comments.
I dislike smear campaigns, so i thought id read up.
Dole, who has a disabled right arm from war wounds, said Kerry received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds." He called on the nominee to release all of his Vietnam service records.
Dole told CNN's "Late Edition" that he warned Kerry months ago about going "too far" and that the Democrat may have himself to blame for the current situation, in which polls show him losing support among veterans.
"One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said. "The next day he's standing there, `I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam veteran.' Maybe he should apologize to all the other 2.5 million veterans who served. He wasn't the only one in Vietnam."
Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out."
posted
hi keith.... LOL let's get the records out... you know what--my DD214 has mistakes on it..... almost every document i ever got in the service had flaws on it--ask anybody in... none of this is gonna get any clearer...belive me..... that is what will be the real sad part of the story...
CATCH 22-----one of the truest pieces of fiction ever written
posted
I don't think either one of them are worthy of being president....but what keeps going through my mind is, if we want to elevate our international standing Bush should go. I am an independent voter, fortunately I don't claim either party...but it also goes to show we can't "waste" any votes.
posted
actually glassman, there was this article the other day about the amount of Canadians voting in the US election.
800,000 Canadians have dual citizenship and are residing in Canada, all of which have the right to vote. Their is a lot of effort going in to getting those people to vote, and you can pretty much garuntee 80-90% of those votes will be going to Kerry.
posted
g-man, i agree, but if the facts cant tell us the truth let them attack each other. On Heller- wasnt much impressed actually its one of the top 25 ever and, well, i was disappointed i guess. not bad but not top 25.
bob also agree and sarah you too.
i did not vote for bush, i will never vote for kerry (sorry I'm from Mass.) just check out his lies and senate voting record.
kevin, canada wont be happy with kerry either, they havent liked a pres since kennedy.
ON a side not- went to see track and field olympics last night (afternoon for you folks) twas incredible. I had never been, the greek gold medal ceremony and winning the silver in triple jump was great to see. 3 americans winning the 400 meter was great and got a great round of applause for the achivment. although their medal ceremony was the last thing and place had pretty much cleared out.
also- irish woman 500k race was so hurt she was passed, she fininshed anyways and was cheered around the track on last lap, was very nice. i dont know what american or canadian t.v captures but being there was a pleasure.
sorry for the digression.
keith
[This message has been edited by keithsan (edited August 24, 2004).]
posted
heres what i really dont like, this is the 2nd "supposed documentary" to come out during this campaign. moore even admits his was blatantly biased and if it helps remove the pres. thats great......
now this.
i would rather see the politicians doing there hatred thing than fake media....
Documentary Highlights Kerry's Heroics Monday, August 23, 2004
PHOTOS VIDEO OTHER
Click image to enlarge STORIES LINKS •Transcript: Debating Kerry's Vietnam Record•Dole Hits Kerry for War Comments•Debate Rages on Kerry War Record•Bush Campaign Volunteer in Swift Boat Ad Steps Down•Chicago Tribune Editor Backs Kerry's Story•Group's Flier Found in Bush Camp Office•Kerry Urges Bush to Demand Attacks Stop•Gen. Merrill McPeak Tapes Ad for Kerry•Kerry Camp, Opponents Release Dueling Ads•Kerry Strikes Back Against Vietnam Criticism•Anti-Kerry Vietnam Ads a Hit •New Ads Reignite Vietnam Debate•Kerry Cambodia Visit Scrutinized WASHINGTON — John Kerry's (search) former crew mates vouch for his Vietnam war heroics in a documentary being released in the midst of a campaign debate about his actions as a swift boat skipper.
posted
i'm all for free speech..... i'm not for messing with natl. security...
by the way DQR i was watching Fox News (i randomly switch to them all) when Bush gave his live PR.... did you see it live???? His little black dog made a donation to the DNC right on the lawn before the cameraman figured out what was going on and tightened the field of view...LOL
quote:Originally posted by glassman: hi keith.... LOL let's get the records out... you know what--my DD214 has mistakes on it..... almost every document i ever got in the service had flaws on it--ask anybody in... none of this is gonna get any clearer...belive me..... that is what will be the real sad part of the story...
CATCH 22-----one of the truest pieces of fiction ever written
posted
I'm sure I won't be popular after posting this, but since you guys are on the subject of the truth about Vietnam.... I don't even remember the actual events, but my brother (who is 14 yrs older than me) was in Vietnam. Years later as a teen, I met several people who told me some horror stories and even showed me pictures, 100's of them, that had been smuggled out of Vietnam by an amateur photographer of dead civilians, babies, etc. These various stories of mutilation and sometimes rape, were told to me by Vietnam vets. At that time most people I met who had fought readily admitted it was an unwinnable war.They also admitted they didn't want to be there, but had to fight for a country that asked. When you don't know your enemy, because he looks like the people you are fighting for, it makes it difficult. I was told there were many atrocities from the Vietnamese as well. Like one story I heard about a village sending out a baby with a grenade, because they knew the Americans would approach a baby and give it food, or some treat. Or sending women to shield the Vietnamese fighters, because they thought Americans wouldn't kill women. It is not hard for me to understand that atrocities took place on BOTH sides. I do know though, that pictures don't lie. At least not pics from the 60's.
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i am surprised that Bush even thought about running again after the Iraq thing..... nobody in recent history has made such a big mistake.....
the CIA is falling on their sword over this and, the CIA is paying for Bush political ambitions.....
from my perspective, there is no reason or accountability apparent in society anymore....
remeber the farmer in the dell??? the cheese stands alone????? want a burger with your cheese? both of them cost twice what they did( at the grocery store) when Bush came into office....
i have seen data indicating that more people have left the State Dept (in frustration) in the last 3 years than ever before....
US citizens are afraid to speak against the governmnet...
some CIA operatives have even been exposed by this administration for political reasons....
i don't see one shred of evidence that we are safer as a result of any of this...
we have enemies that we need to destroy---how many more years will it take?????
this is not a political statement--just an observation of the FACTS as i see them.... Kerry won't do any better IMO
posted
another note on ARROGANCE... yes, some arrogance is required to reach the pinnacle.... however, i don't think we have ever seen a more arrogant group of people in sport than the american olympic basketball team....
i am embarrassed to be represented by alan iverson on the world stage..... look into his history..i was living in VA when he was pardonned.....
the lesson here is easy to see.... teamwork wins.....
posted
I find it rather peculiar that all this outcry didn't come when Moore's 9/11 movie came out. They waved the free speech banners then. Now all of a sudden its "Hey these 527 guys should keep out of it". And on another note its going to take a long time to clean 8 years of the Clintoons out of our government.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited August 29, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited August 29, 2004).]
posted
mike moore is a slob..... i didn't go see his movie..he's not a politician.... i checked his book Stupid White Men out of the library(not paid for it)
his bowling for columbine is a pice of crap too
mike is making a buck.....(but not mine)
fighting fire with fire just lowers the bar....
we are in a bad way-- people see the boogeyman everywhere.... we are fighting a very small group of people.. they are trying to destroy our freedom, and they are winning---i HATE it....
divide to conquer is the oldest and most reliable military concept....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited August 29, 2004).]
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