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Chart walker
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"A place to hang out and talk options" [Smile]

Going to jump in and see what becomes of this thread, making this for newbies, feel free to ask questions [Smile]

http://www.888options.com/
Go here for all the info you should need.

I don't believe people know that for basically the same amount of money they are useing on penny's they could be buying Options on the "Big Boy" stocks and making huge profits with only a FRACTION of the time and effort. As I progress in my trading I'm finding I don't like having to watch a computer screen all day with my finger on the sell button, even worse I hate scams and BS that Penny's are dipped in...

With that said, I like buying "extreme" tops or bottoms with Options. Example, on a weekly chart look for turn points, buy a CALL or PUT 6 months just out of the money. Sell with one month to go.
Those are the "rules." [Smile]
Simple ~

Today's buy, contracts are $3.00 so $3 x 10 = $300
I bought 10 so it was $3000. [contracts are sold in a group of 10]

Today's buy: (1-24-07)
.SFBRL SPY JUN 142 Put
-10 for $3.00
(my cost $3,000.00) 2.89 ($2,890.00)
gain of $110.00

One's I am in:
.SFBRI SPY JUN 139 Put
$143.43 -10 $2.90
(my cost $2,900.00) 2.15 ($2,150.00)
gain of $750.00

.QQQOO QQQQ MAR 2007 41 Put
$44.30 -10 $0.60
(my cost $600.00) 0.2 ($200.00)
gain of $400.00

.DAWOQ DIA MAR 2007 121 Put
$125.73 -1 $2.65
(my cost $265.00) 0.6 ($60.00)
Gain of $205.00

Chart ~

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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Repoman75
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I know all about options except how to make money on them... I hear they are profitably, although when I was 16, I lost $5K on Heating Oil futures...

But I'd be interested in getting back in the game (can't hold me down for long!)

--------------------
Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!

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Chart walker
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I'm about sick of having to baby sit Pennystocks.

The big main players like QQQQ, DIA or SPY are about all you need. That and the Gallery page at stockchart.com. You can watch MSFT, or GOOG with NO GAMES and BS and make great profits, safer IMO.

If the Naz is in a weekly uptrend go with CALLS, down trend showing in the weekly go with PUTS.

With "simple" charting skills and buying at extreme tops or bottoms (weekly charts) it's hard to lose when buying a 6 month contract and selling with 1 month to go.

I go with straight CALLS or PUTS, nothing fancy, no need if you know where the market is headed IMO. That's why I thought I would start documenting what I'm doing.

This is far more predictable and less time consuming then penny's ~

I may roll out of Penny's all together in 2007, takes to much time.

--------------------
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new2stocks
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chart~ are you paper trading these options?
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Chart walker
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Yes, opened a virtual account along side of my actual account, and can show everyone who PM's me how to do that FOR FREE at a top trading platform. The account will be "real" and can be funded at any time... Mine is, and there will be more moved there soon [Smile]
Majority of my accounts are in stocks yet, but...

Like I said, I'm thinking of rolling out of penny's in 2007 because these major stocks on a weekly chart with indicators are like shooting fish in a barrel and I intend to prove it right here. I've been doing this for awhile, backtesting, perfecting ~

So far I have a 100% picking system going and will talk about all that in detail as questions and pic's come up.

Charts and indicators with Large Cap stocks are a dream come true, read like a book IMO ~

I even have a way to set up and trade your account to "go for broke" the smart way, and race to retirement. -Divide your account into 5 "blocks" in otherwords trade 20% on everytrade, 100% gains are normal when buying in on "extreme" tops or bottoms...

"IF" one would lose (hasn't yet) 25% is taken from the other 4 to build up the 5th.

Here is the power of trading Options this way, besides being protected...
5 Blocks of $1000 (you can always work up to that amount) gaining an average of 100% after just 8 trades each and you'll have $256,000.00 in each, or $1,280,000.00.

After just 8 trades each, -and with options 100% gains are not hard to get. Notice my .SFBRI SPY JUN 139 Put, the stock price is $143.43 yet my gain is $750.00, -and I'm still $4.00 from where I "should" first be making money at $139.00...

There's "The Plan"

-watch me go! [Big Grin]

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new2stocks
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GLTY Chart!
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Chart walker
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EOD Totals:

.DAWOQ DIA MAR 2007 121 Put
$126.05 -1 $2.65 ($265.00) 0.5 ($50.00)
Gain of $215.00

.QQQOO QQQQ MAR 2007 41 Put
$44.26 -10 $0.60 ($600.00) 0.22 ($220.00)
Gain of $380.00

.SFBRI SPY JUN 139 Put
$143.90 -10 $2.90 ($2,900.00) 1.95 ($1,950.00)
Gain of $950.00


.SFBRL SPY JUN 142 Put
-10 $3.00 ($3,000.00) 2.75 ($2,750.00)
Gain of $250.00

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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new2stocks
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Can you cash out at any time or do you have to wait?
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Chart walker
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Work's just like stocks New2 ~

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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new2stocks
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Interesting, I tried looking into options on my own, but I wasn't understanding it. LOL
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Repoman75
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Well I'm approved to do everything including selling naked calls... so keep me in the loop.

--------------------
Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!

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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by Repoman75:
Well I'm approved to do everything including selling naked calls... so keep me in the loop.

No kidding Repo....

Got a buddy that want's to just write the contracts, he said (not so surprisingly to me) that 80% of people who buy Options LOSE their money. -I bet it's HIGHER in Penny's! [Big Grin]

I told him that that sounded like an opportunity to make ALOT of Money! Think about it....

If you know how to snag extreme tops or bottoms [on a WEEKLY chart look at either Stochastic, MACD, RSI and CMoneyFlow and SEE how LOW or HIGH the positive/negative crosses are that produce an "extreme." In other words no buying in the middle.] then you can write CALLS at tops cause you know darn well whatever you sell you'll get to KEEP cause it's about to tank, or likewise on a extreme bottom sell all the PUTS you can cause it's about to cycle up, the price won't go that low so they expire worthless... again...

"You keep the cash!"

This way your percentage of "keepers" goes WAY up when writing them! You aren't playing around in the middle of the stock, but at an "extreme." -get it? [Big Grin]

I went into this in a little detail because CLEARLY someone who knows how to do this Repo could CLEAN HOUSE.....

-no if's, and's, or buts! ~

hmmmmmm.... -now you got me thinking....

How about I tell you what's going where and you write'em? [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Wonder how much a couple of us "hicks" could make in 6 mos.?? LMAO ~

I still like trading the contracts, the knowledge of which ones are about to turn could be used to write contracts out PAST extremes, otherwise this knowledge will go wasted, I have nothing to loose here, think about it ~

Chart

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NYSE Trader
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Question if the stock ends up trending against your predictions you can let it expire worthless and just pay the premium is that right?
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NYSE Trader
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By the way I am glad your here to help with options...ive started reading about them this past 2 months very interested.
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Repoman75
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quote:
Originally posted by NYSE Trader:
Question if the stock ends up trending against your predictions you can let it expire worthless and just pay the premium is that right?

Yes, but you're better to sell before they expire hopefully for some value.

Chart - I've had an idea about big boards, and that is REVERSE STRADDLES. Think about it. Find a big board that barely moves (up or down), and then sell naked puts and calls WAY out of the money.. you'd have to sell a lot and take a large risk, but it could be very profitable.

Ok, now I'm interested. Let's get some stocks on here and their options and let's try some paper trades.

--------------------
Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!

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milliam
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quote:
Originally posted by NYSE Trader:
Question if the stock ends up trending against your predictions you can let it expire worthless and just pay the premium is that right?

If it trends against you, your best to sell at a stop. Otherwise, they expire worthless (been there done that). You don't pay anything at that point...all of the cost is upfront.

I'm grabbing a seat here at the lounge. I'm ready to get back into options. Me and some buddies have been looking at a pay service for info, but I think we might go it on our own (with Chart's help) instead.

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milliam
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Repo...you're talking some serious risky stuff there. There are ways to take some risk out, but they limit your profits. I like to stick with the simple buying of calls or puts. The saddles, strangles, and such could be useful in some instances though.
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milliam
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Chart, which firm do you have your virtual account with? Also, I seem to remember some site where they had backtracking on strategies...can you point me to one that has that?

Thanks!

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Chart walker
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Extreme top/bottoms.

A look at the QQQQ's
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=W&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p06046282734

On a weekly chart the "cubes" produced 2 BUY points, MACD/PPO indicator hit a low of -2 and was matched with Stochastic going below it's 20% line, Aroon went negative as well, so this was an "extreme" bottom.

Just coming off of a extreme top it looks like too, Stochastic going below it's 80% line, MACD/PPO is high and crossing negative, momentum bars shrinking to the negative also.

So, 2 times we would've bought into "the cubes" one CALL and one PUT.

Looks like the cubes will be taking a dump, the false sense some "experts" are trying to push that the BULL market will keep going I don't buy...

I think this explains the current market myself...
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/januaryeffect.asp

Also, something to keep in mind, Clinton used the FED, if interest rates don't raise, the market stays fine... -Remember that.

Again, that is why I look for the extreme lows or highs, safer.

I still like a straight CALL or PUT Option. Yes you can buy all different kinds of spreads, neutral or bullish/bearish but your profits are effected. For instance you could be Delta Neutral on a stock and win no matter what happens.

In otherwords, buy a Call and a PUT, you win if it goes up or down, but one will lose some before you can sell. Again, when playing extremes you get around that.

my 2 cents ~

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by milliam:
Chart, which firm do you have your virtual account with? Also, I seem to remember some site where they had backtracking on strategies...can you point me to one that has that?

Thanks!

I love Optionsxpress . com
Backtesting can be done by simply looking back at a chart...

Otherwise Tradestation . com has what you are talking about. Top notch site and $5000 min to open an account.

https://www.tradestation.com/support/books/default.aspx

Click online Tutorials.
(love Radar screen!)

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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Mantux
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Chart thanks for all the info. This is a great thread. I have a few questions about using charts. Do you use a sma or ema? On the RSI and CMoneyFlow what periods do you use? Also, for the MACD any suggestions on the fast, slow and smoothing settings? Thanks
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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by Mantux:
Chart thanks for all the info. This is a great thread. I have a few questions about using charts. Do you use a sma or ema? On the RSI and CMoneyFlow what periods do you use? Also, for the MACD any suggestions on the fast, slow and smoothing settings? Thanks

Moving averages I don't use much, not "quick" enough, or if you quicken them up you loose "where" you are in the "flow..." like free falling in space, but I know of some who love them and seem to do well... More then one way to skin a cat ~

MACD takes care of that for me, not only does it cross positive or negative but also WHERE it crosses (below/above centerline) so I know where it's at in it's trend.

RSI and Money Flow I use on Weekly, daily and even on a daily intraday charts. Keep in mind that weekly charts AVERAGE in their data at the EOW.

I like useing default settings on MACD, and having a "quick" setting to below it, try 4,8,8

That setting does wonders on a weekly chart as well [Smile] --gets you in and out BEFORE the crowd ~

On intraday charts, use a default setting MACD to see the MAJOR trend of the day, and the "quick" MACD setting (4,8,8) MACD for exact buy in and out points. Those two with a Stochastic indicator and you should be able to rule flips intraday ~

Those are a powerful 3 some!

Hope that helps [Smile]

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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Mantux
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Thanks Chart, that helps a lot.
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Chart walker
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http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p38616514271

"The cube's" are at the bottom of the Stochastic indicator so after what should be a run in the next couple of days I'll be looking to snag a
June PUT at a cheaper price because of the run~

-my .02 cents ~

Later Board!
Chart ~

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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littleman
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chart walker, i own halliburton as a value play. should i have bought a just out of the money call instead. thanks
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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by littleman:
chart walker, i own halliburton as a value play. should i have bought a just out of the money call instead. thanks

"Halliburton"....?????
Not familier with that one.
What's the symbol so I can look it up?

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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by Chart walker:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p38616514271

"The cube's" are at the bottom of the Stochastic indicator so after what should be a run in the next couple of days I'll be looking to snag a
June PUT at a cheaper price because of the run~

-my .02 cents ~

Later Board!
Chart ~

BUMP, -everything going according to plan [Smile]

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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littleman
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chart, it's HAL
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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by littleman:
chart walker, i own halliburton as a value play. should i have bought a just out of the money call instead. thanks

Only you can answer your question, it's a matter of probability. As you walk away from the price the odds start to go against you, but that is why I play "extreme" tops and bottoms and not the middle's.

I, myself, don't mind going slightly out of the money for a little discount on the price when I see a turning point in a WEEKLY chart.

How to do that.
MARK indicator HIGH and LOWS, to find your target buy in and out points. For instance look at a gallery page of HAL...

http://stockcharts.com/charts/gallery.html?hal

If you are doing short plays notice that when the PPO indicator on the DAILY chart hits certain highs or lows with that indicator that they are excellent times to buy in. Like the start of Oct. when it was -4, and right around January 16th it was -3.

For longer plays use a Weekly chart, but ALWAYS LOOK AT THE WEEKLY CHART TO FIND THE MAIN TREND, NEVER GO AGAINST THE TREND.

Pull up a 1 or 2 year daily chart and backtest your thinking now and see how many times when this indicator was that low (-3 or below) was it a good time to buy in? Chances are it will be. So this stock has just "taught YOU" how to play it when buying a CALL.

The same goes for PUTS. Mark which HIGH point on a indicator is "extreme" and then wait for it ~

Pick several stocks and let "the stock" tell YOU WHAT and WHEN to buy it...

Some indicators I use for finding extreme turn points are:
Full Stochastic
MACD
RSI
PPO

Again, everything you need to know about the stock will come to light in BACKTESTING these indicators and seeing which one/s give the best "read."

I know it may sound like alot, but once you walk through this system you'll use it everytime because just like a book you'll KNOW where you are, beginning, middle or end...

HAL looks like a nice stock!
Nice "predictable" swings up and down, this is also what you want to look for, NOT one that isn't predictable....

-that's my .02 cents, hope it helps bud [Big Grin]

Later Littleman!

Chart ~

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Chart walker
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http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p38616514271

Still waiting for the Stochastic indicator to run it's course... When it gets to the top of it's indiactor and starts to bend down again we'll place our trade!!! [Big Grin]

Looks like by the EOW IMO ~

Chart ~

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The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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Repoman75
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Still radaring this whole idea... when I get some funds, I'm jumping in.

--------------------
Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM!

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Chart walker
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quote:
Originally posted by Chart walker:
quote:
Originally posted by Chart walker:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p38616514271

"The cube's" are at the bottom of the Stochastic indicator so after what should be a run in the next couple of days I'll be looking to snag a
June PUT at a cheaper price because of the run~

-my .02 cents ~

Later Board!
Chart ~

BUMP, -everything going according to plan [Smile]
Re-BUMP!
Indicators reading this like a book!!! lol ~
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p38616514271

--------------------
The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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SherriT
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OK Chart, we are getting close to EOW - have you placed your trade yet? [Wink]

I'm still trying to muddle through my options book, but I am definately getting more interested.

I know we slightly covered this above, but you pay the premium, and you can choose to let the option expire worthless, or you can exercise it and/or sell/cover the stock...does the latter usually save you money over just letting it expire?

Also, I'm still learning the stochastic...you said the QQQQs are at the bottom of the stochastic...it looks to me like the Full Stochastic is at the top of its range - why do you call that a bottom? (sorry if that was a dumb question)

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Study before you buy, Sell before you think about it....

Posts: 3903 | From: Gulf Coast | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by SherriT:
OK Chart, we are getting close to EOW - have you placed your trade yet? [Wink]

I'm still trying to muddle through my options book, but I am definately getting more interested.

I know we slightly covered this above, but you pay the premium, and you can choose to let the option expire worthless, or you can exercise it and/or sell/cover the stock...does the latter usually save you money over just letting it expire?

Also, I'm still learning the stochastic...you said the QQQQs are at the bottom of the stochastic...it looks to me like the Full Stochastic is at the top of its range - why do you call that a bottom? (sorry if that was a dumb question)

"WAS" at the bottom of the Stochastic indicator [Smile]

Now first would be a good time to go short IMO...
After the drop, the PPS may go up some, wait, then place your paper trades today.

I'll be back on later with what I'm going with...

Notice how nice the RSI Stochastic follows the cubes! Everytime it was low it went high for a profit.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=QQQQ&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=p91598165353

And options are just like stocks, you can sell at anytime...
GL Board!
Chart ~

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The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

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.QQQRQ QQQQ JUN 43 Put

10 bought at $1.22
(about $1235.00 w/ commissions my cost)

NOTE: 1 contract of 10 would have cost you around $123.50 (I bought 10 of them) FYI.

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The "BIG PICTURE" http://www.businessjive.com/nss/darkside.html

Posts: 5449 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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