CMKX Cert Pull INSTRUCTIONS FOR FAXING YOUR CERTS WHEN THE TIME COMES TO DO SO. WE SHOULD HAVE THE FAX PROGRAMS IN PLACE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS CLOSELY.
It is very important that you follow these directions or you will cause us to waste much time and energy. Please help us help you.
This fax campaign is for certs only! Please do not fax brokerage statements. Fax only once per account. You will get an e-mail from us as we input your information which will be your confirmation of receipt. If you do not have an e-mail address, make sure you set your fax to acknowledge we received your transmission. Each and every fax has to be entered by an individual into the data base, so do not expect an acknowledgement for potentially several weeks. PLEASE do not call to see if we got your fax.
Do not fax to the Frizzell Law Firm, and do not fax to any other number other than the fax numbers we give you--otherwise your fax will not be counted. Do not e-mail a copy of your certs. (fax numbers to be announced in the next day or two) Faxing is going to be set up in an orderly, structured fashion (we learned our lesson the last time...) We would appreciate your help and understanding as we try to eliminate the bottleneck we experienced before. Once we have received faxes from all who have their certs already, we feel the rest of the process will go smoothly because the faxes will come in as you all receive your certs. If you get a busy signal, please, just re-fax at a later time A schedule will be posted in alphabetical order by last name for when we would like you to fax. If you all follow this plan, frustrations will be kept to a minimum for all shareholders. Of course the fax numbers will be working 24 hours a day, so odd hours will make it easier. We are going to request phone numbers and addresses along with your e-mail addresses to cut down on games that no doubt will be played by those attempting to undermine our process. Any faxes that are sent will be verified by a phone call if we suspect wrong-doing. This will eliminate the total from being skewed, as we will delete any fax that we cannot verify. The totals on the web site will not be automatically updated by the system. They will be updated manually to keep duplications and or illegitimate faxes from affecting the integrity of the displayed totals. We will also have lists from the Transfer Agent to verify your certificate. We will be providing a link on the Task Force web page to a fax cover sheet. That link will not be available until the fax numbers are announced. We have set it up so you can type in the information we have requested before printing, thus eliminating problems in reading the fax. Please do not include any other pages than just the fax cover and your certs. Please do not fax your certs without this fax cover sheet. If you do not have a way to type your info and print, be very careful with your printing (do not handwrite) as it is crucial that the information be transcribed correctly. Those of you who know shareholders that do not have computers or printers, please make copies of this instruction sheet as well as the fax cover sheet so they too can fax properly. If you are faxing multiple accounts, i.e. several family members or friends, each account must be faxed individually. Please do not fax multiple accounts in the same fax or they will be deleted and not counted.
The Task Forces wishes to thank all CMKX shareholders in advance for your cooperation and patience with this process. We will do our best to work alongside you to make the process go as smoothly and painlessly as possible.
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
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OK, After all the authentic Certs are all pulled… - and we find out which Brokers and MMs have shorted our CMKX stock - and we find out exactly how many shares are counterfeit…
…then, what??
I would expect these brokers and MMs to be out of reach of our judicial system – using off-shore hedge funds, Swiss bank accounts, etc. - so what leverage do we have to reel in these thieves? What kind of ‘squeeze’ can we expect? How do we bring justice for the shareholders left “holding the bag”?
-------------------- Pen Posts: 1 | From: East Coast | Registered: Nov 2005
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Also Street Wire (U-*SEC) U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission Also Street Wire (U-ETGMF) Entourage Mining Ltd
by Lee M. Webb
CMKM Diamonds Inc., Saskatchewan native Urban Casavant's recently revoked pink sheet promotion, has unveiled its dubious master plan for a liquidating distribution of assets consisting of 50 million shares of Vancouver-based Entourage Mining Ltd.
As previously reported by Stockwatch, virtually on the eve of CMKM's revocation, cash-strapped Entourage entered into three agreements to acquire the pink sheet promotion's Saskatchewan mining interests in exchange for 50 million shares.
Entourage, which trades on the OTC Bulletin Board, has not yet announced that the deals, only two of which were directly negotiated with CMKM, have been consummated.
Nonetheless, Mr. Casavant, CMKM's only officer and director, is already forging ahead with winding up the revoked penniless promotion and distributing the 50 million Entourage shares.
CMKM task force
The proposed liquidating distribution will reportedly be under the oversight of a "task force" comprised of CMKM's Nevada lawyer Donald Stoecklein, 87-year-old former co-chairman Robert Maheu and Texas lawyer Bill Frizzell.
Mr. Stoecklein, who was hired as CMKM's attorney in February, packs some regulatory baggage of his own in connection with a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) action unrelated to CMKM.
The Nevada lawyer was unsuccessful in his touted efforts to guide CMKM through its "regulatory compliance requirements." Indeed, even with the ballyhooed securities lawyer Mr. Stoecklein on its payroll, CMKM seemed to have little grasp of regulations or the company's obligations.
For example, in a March 24 news release commenting upon the SEC's administrative proceeding against the company, CMKM rather snootily remarked that even if the U.S. regulator revoked its registration, CMKM's stock would continue to trade on the pink sheets.
Contrary that incorrect and repeated suggestion in the March 24 news release, it is against the law for any broker to effect a trade in the securities of an issuer that has had its registration revoked, something that should now be abundantly clear to CMKM shareholders stuck with the revoked stock.
In another example of ignorance, if not blatant disregard for securities laws, CMKM provided a false corporate address in an SEC filing submitted by one of Mr. Stoecklein's associates.
Mr. Stoecklein was also unsuccessful in countering the SEC allegations of CMKM's securities violations in the administrative proceeding against the company.
On July 12, Chief Administrative Law Judge Brenda P. Murray decided that CMKM was an egregious, repeat securities violator and issued an initial decision ordering its stock registration revoked.
Mr. Stoecklein did manage to drag the process out for more than three months, during which time tens of billions of CMKM shares changed hands, by successfully petitioning for a review of Judge Murray's initial decision.
On Oct. 24, however, Mr. Stoecklein withdrew the company's petition for review. On Oct. 28, the SEC issued a final order revoking CMKM's stock registration.
Mr. Maheu, a former private gumshoe who spent about 10 years working for Howard Hughes before being fired more than three decades ago, signed on as CMKM's trophy co-chairman for $40,000 per month in January "to improve corporate compliance." (All amounts are in U.S. dollars.)
At a May 10 SEC evidentiary hearing, however, Mr. Maheu's testimony revealed that he did not have a clue about the company's operations or financial condition.
Hearkening back to a job he had half a century ago with the precursor to the Small Business Administration, Mr. Maheu remarked that he "became known as the man with the whip."
"And I still have that whip," Mr. Maheu added, going on to testify that he had used that whip in helping CMKM develop its periodic reports for filing with the SEC.
Alas, Mr. Maheu was evidently oblivious to the fact that his whip cracking had no effect.
Mr. Maheu, touted as the man brought on board to shape up the company, was ignorant of the fact that requested records and documentation had not been provided to the company's bookkeeper and that CMKM's auditor, despite repeated requests, had not received any documentation.
None of the periodic reports were ever filed and with the cashless company headed for revocation, the octogenarian pulled the plug as CMKM's co-chairman on Oct. 20.
Mr. Frizzell rounds out the vaunted CMKM task force.
The Texas lawyer, with no securities experience, is a CMKM shareholder and, like many of the company's cult-like followers, believes that the massively diluted pink sheet promotion's woes can be largely attributed to naked short selling.
Mr. Frizzell was hired last year to represent fellow Texan and CMKM shareholder John Martin in matters related to his flagging investment in the company.
When the SEC instituted administrative proceedings against the company in March, Mr. Frizzell offered to represent other CMKM shareholders at a cost of $25 per person. Approximately 5,000 shareholders originally signed on.
With the help of Mr. Martin, Mr. Frizzell devoted considerable effort and a significant amount of the money collected from the shareholders known as the Owners Group to attempting to establish proof of a massive short position in CMKM.
Notwithstanding Judge Murray's prehearing ruling that short selling was irrelevant to the matters in question, Mr. Frizzell pressed on with his quixotic project. The lawyer's purported evidence of a crippling CMKM short position was never presented for public scrutiny.
After tapping the Owners Group for another $25 per person, Mr. Frizzell moved on to a second phase of representation. Only 2,500 shareholders signed on for the second phase representation.
In spite of the fact that the SEC recently provided Mr. Frizzell with evidence that CMKM delivery failures amounted to a paltry three million shares worth a picayune $300 at the end of April of this year, the Texas lawyer is apparently still convinced that there is a massive short position in the stock.
That conviction, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary, is still shared by many of CMKM's cult-like followers.
Indeed, the so-called "true longs" are heralding the proposed Entourage distribution as a master plan to trap short sellers.
The master plan
Under the proposed plan for winding up the massively diluted company, CMKM shareholders with shares in street name, which account for the majority of the staggering 703.5 billion shares outstanding, will have to obtain certificated CMKM shares in order to participate in the Entourage distribution.
"In order to be considered a bona fide stockholder of CMKM, a physical stock certificate issued in the shareholder's name will need to be presented to the distribution task force for confirmation on or before Dec. 31, 2005, or as extended at the sole discretion of the task force," the company advised in a Nov. 4 news release.
"Electronic and/or other forms of ownership (such as brokerage statements) will not be accepted by the task force as evidence of ownership," the news release continued. "Therefore, CMKM stockholders who hold their shares in 'street name' will need to demand physical certificates from their broker in order to be considered a bona fide CMKM stockholder and be entitled to their proportionate share of the Entourage common stock and any other assets of CMKM to be distributed to its bona fide stockholders."
CMKM shareholders who want to participate in the Entourage distribution under the terms set out by the company will have to ante up the cost of obtaining certificates. The cost, which varies from brokerage to brokerage, could range from approximately $50 to several hundred dollars.
Assuming the distribution of Entourage shares is eventually completed, Canadian shareholders may face further obstacles. Many Canadian brokerages will not accept deposits of share certificates of OTC-BB companies, which will leave Canadian investors scrambling for a place to park their Entourage shares.
While the distribution plan seems simple enough on its face, some veteran market observers suggest that it will turn into a quagmire and the process, if it is ever completed, will drag on for many months.
Critics also question whether Nevada-incorporated CMKM's plan for winding up the company and distributing its assets complies with Nevada statutes and other laws.
Barring intervention from some regulatory or law enforcement agency, however, CMKM, which has never been a paragon of compliance, seems determined to proceed.
Notwithstanding the many unanswered questions and unresolved issues, CMKM's excitable cult-like followers are in yet another tizzy over what they consider to be a brilliant master plan engineered by Mr. Casavant and the company's brain trust.
The Casavant manoeuvre
Some of CMKM's followers are also impressed by another snippet served up in the company's Nov. 4 corporate update.
Among the cockamamie fantasies previously embraced by many of the company's devoted Internet followers, and perhaps still faithfully held by some, was a so-called theory dubbed "the Casavant manoeuvre" that many believed would make them fabulously rich.
A perhaps far less entertaining, but more concrete, Casavant manoeuvre was outlined in the Nov. 4 news release.
"Urban Casavant, CMKM's sole officer and director, has informed the distribution task force that neither he nor his immediate family members will receive any of the Entourage shares in the distribution," the news release reported.
A great deal was made of this arguably largely empty gesture. Indeed, it was given several mentions in the Nov. 4 announcement, including some gushing comments from task force member Mr. Maheu.
"I want to commend Urban and his immediate family for deciding not to share in the distribution of the Entourage shares," Mr. Maheu remarked. "This goes a long way towards showing the Casavant family's continued commitment to the CMKM stockholders."
According to some reports, Mr. Maheu has quite a sense of humour, but there is nothing to indicate that his comments were offered tongue-in-cheek.
Nonetheless, more than a few observers arched an eyebrow over the former co-chairman's characterization of the Casavant family's abstention from the Entourage distribution as a demonstration of continued commitment to CMKM shareholders.
While it is not known exactly how many CMKM shares are presently held by Mr. Casavant and members of his immediate family, if any, it is known that they received and promptly dumped into the market many of the hundreds of billions of shares Mr. Casavant issued, all without so much as a peep to shareholders.
Indeed, by the time the SEC stepped in with its administrative proceeding against the company, Mr. Casavant and members of his family had unloaded the majority of their CMKM shares.
Apparently the task force's greybeard, Mr. Maheu, believes that CMKM shareholders should not be concerned with such trifling bygones.
"This is a time for the CMKM stockholders to look forward towards the future and forget the past," Mr. Maheu remarked after serving up his assessment of the Casavant family's commitment to shareholders.
Many of CMKM's cult-like followers evidently agree with Mr. Maheu and are already polishing their crystal balls and refashioning their fantasies of future riches.
With the help of fodder for febrile imaginations presented on the task force's website, CMKM's faithful followers are particularly reviving fantasies of a massive naked short position and astronomical settlements running to hundreds of billions of dollars.
The website
The CMKM Task Force website is registered to Securities Law Institute, which is owned by Mr. Stoecklein and his close business associate, Anthony DeMint.
Mr. DeMint, who is listed as the administrative and technical contact for the website, controls dozens of blank cheque companies and has been involved with a number of issuers that have had their stock registration revoked by the SEC.
The website, which was registered on Nov. 3, is still under development, but it already offers some fantasy inspiring content, with the promise of more to come.
"We are diligently working on providing additional content to this Website so that it serves as the source of all information for the CMKX Cert Pull demand outlined by the Task Force in the recent Press Release," the task force website home page advises.
A "cert pull" is undoubtedly a phrase that is familiar to many of CMKM's Internet followers. Indeed, it is a rather common refrain on many chat sites hosting discussions of penny stocks, particularly when the wheels start to come off a promotion and the price collapses.
Investors caught when a penny stock promotion collapses frequently place the blame on short sellers. Since shares held in certificate form cannot be borrowed to facilitate a short sale, it is not unusual for investors to raise a hue and cry for a "cert pull," encouraging shareholders to take physical delivery of their shares to combat short selling.
It is not clear that the tactic has ever worked.
Moreover, according to some market observers, gullible investors left holding the bag and loath to accept responsibility for a poor investment decision are far too quick to point the finger at the short selling bogeyman when a promotion collapses. The real reason for the collapse, they argue, almost invariably lies elsewhere, often with the company, its insiders and promoters.
Interestingly, in a Jan. 7, 2003, news release, Mr. Casavant raised the notion of naked short selling, which occurs when shares are not borrowed to effect the transaction, and urged shareholders to take delivery of their certificates.
After suggestively waving at naked short sellers, Mr. Casavant went on to issue hundreds of billions of shares, many of them to friends and family members, without bothering to tell regulators or investors about the staggering dilution.
The spectre of naked short selling is repeatedly raised in the frequently asked questions section of the CMKM task force website.
After declaring that only shareholders who have physical possession of CMKM share certificates will be able to participate in the Entourage distribution, the task force website goes on to claim that a second reason for demanding a certificate pull "is to determine the actual number of CMKX shares held by all shareholders, worldwide."
"If the total number of CMKX shares exceeds CMKX's outstanding share count, this may be due to the existence of Naked Short Shares in the Market," the vaunted task force suggests.
A more explicit claim about purported naked short selling is made in a subsequent section.
"Credible information indicates the number of naked short shares is potentially as high as 2 trillion shares," the task force claims, offering no details regarding the source or exact nature of this incredible "credible information."
"However, these numbers must be legally confirmed and validated before any action can be taken," the greybeard and two lawyer task force continues. "That said, the time has arrived for all CMKX shareholders to flex our considerable collective power in this united campaign to achieve justice for friends, families and ourselves.
"It is our belief that CMKX shareholders have been handed, on a silver platter, the opportunity to become the most formidable force the naked short sale perpetrators have ever faced."
While the stated belief of CMKM's vaunted task force resonates well among the company's cult-like followers, some market-savvy critics claim that CMKM shareholders are being shovelled another bill of goods that diverts attention from the massive dilution, mismanagement, misrepresentations and ultimate gutting of the company.
"Please note that everyone who does pull certificates will be helping to right a monumental wrong that permeates our entire market system," the task force goes on to state. "This is an opportunity to participate in a history-making event.
"Our success may very well hinge on the shareholder community's perseverance in obtaining this proof of bona-fide share ownership."
Just when this history-making event or the Entourage share distribution, for that matter, will be realized remains an open question.
The saga continues.
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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OK, After all the authentic Certs are all pulled… - and we find out which Brokers and MMs have shorted our CMKX stock - and we find out exactly how many shares are counterfeit…
…then, what??
I would expect these brokers and MMs to be out of reach of our judicial system – using off-shore hedge funds, Swiss bank accounts, etc. - so what leverage do we have to reel in these thieves? What kind of ‘squeeze’ can we expect? How do we bring justice for the shareholders left “holding the bag”?
Then what? Then nothing, that's what. This project is doomed to faliure and I think this crock of a "task force" knows it. Put the naked short issue aside for a minute and just think about how large a number 700 BILLION really is. How on earth are you going to get that many shares accounted for in a month and a half? It's not possible. Three guys with a fax machine are going to collect and collate 700 billion shares from some 60,000 individuals? Then there's the distribution to consider. Is it legal for a company to distribute a dividend only to those who managed to hear about this "cert pull" or will it be held up for years and years because they don't have every share accounted for yet? Mahue will be 136 years old, buried under a mountain of certs, and this will still be going on.
If a company has a legitimate reason for it's shareholders to obtain their certs, there's avenues of communication available to them through brokers and mailings. Somewhere, there exists a current master shareholder list, how do you suppose other companys send out proxies, statements, etc.? That brings up another question, there IS a master list that should reside with the transfer agent. Why then this need to gather everyones certificates? Obtain the information from the t/a, send out the dividend and boom, it's done. This is another attempt by Casavant to put off the inevitable slew of lawsuits that will eventually come his way.
quote:If a company has a legitimate reason for it's shareholders to obtain their certs, there's avenues of communication available to them through brokers and mailings. Somewhere, there exists a current master shareholder list, how do you suppose other companys send out proxies, statements, etc.? That brings up another question, there IS a master list that should reside with the transfer agent. Why then this need to gather everyones certificates? Obtain the information from the t/a, send out the dividend and boom, it's done. This is another attempt by Casavant to put off the inevitable slew of lawsuits that will eventually come his way.
Whew, I'm done for now. That felt pretty good. [/QB]
I've posed this same question a few times in different places, but never got an answer. Why can't they get that info the same way other companies do when they distribute divies? Maybe not T/A, although they should, but what about DTCC? Somewhere someone knows who owns how many shares and where they are.
Posts: 81 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Thats what they tend to be over looking here. Who are they going to sue. They keep saying it is the brokers fault but thats not true. And they have legal standing behind them. Brokers do not make market in the pinksheets period. Market is made through the MM's (market makers) in the pinksheet and no broker makes market for that exchange. So who do you sue, the MM who would file bankruptcy in a heartbeat, the DTCC which has more money then the US government and will fight you tooth and nail, or the offshore hedge funds that you can't touch. Good luck but no one has ever won against them and they differently won;t care about CMKX.
But saying that, what NSS? It hasn't been proven and other then a few cases with customer service reps that don't know there jobs, there hasn't been any problems pulling certs. And the ones that won't pull because they have 401's (real problem with pulling certs there) and those that hold very little shares, will cover the small short at revocation closing.
There is no settlement and there won't be one. The powers that be are laughing at this broken company that is going out of business.
quote:Originally posted by PenDancer: Then What??
OK, After all the authentic Certs are all pulled… - and we find out which Brokers and MMs have shorted our CMKX stock - and we find out exactly how many shares are counterfeit…
…then, what??
I would expect these brokers and MMs to be out of reach of our judicial system – using off-shore hedge funds, Swiss bank accounts, etc. - so what leverage do we have to reel in these thieves? What kind of ‘squeeze’ can we expect? How do we bring justice for the shareholders left “holding the bag”?
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Well, Up, first it isn't a divy, it's a "liquidation of assets" and the company has a right to demand proof of ownership if anyone wants to participate in the liquidation.
And it isn't three guys and a fax. I spoke to Bill yesterday and his staff has spent all of their time revamping their mechanical systems to accomodate the crush.
And 700 billion isn't hard to count when certs are coming in for 200 million, 500 million, a billion, etc.
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I've posed this same question a few times in different places, but never got an answer. Why can't they get that info the same way other companies do when they distribute divies? Maybe not T/A, although they should, but what about DTCC? Somewhere someone knows who owns how many shares and where they are.
I'm sure it wouldn't be as simple as I've made it out to be because, well, there's still 700 billion shares to be accounted for but the burden of identifying those shareholders should fall on the company. The shareholder shouldn't have to identify him/herself as a shareholder. In addition, the shareholder should in no way be required to foot the bill for what is in effect a 1 for 14,000 reverse split. Think about that for a minute, what company has the balls to say "we're going to reduce your holdings by a factor of 14,000 and guess what, you're going to pay for it". Casavant, Maheu, etc. have to be shaking their heads and laughing hysterically that they're actually pulling this farce off.
How many times do some people have to get walloped over the head with a board before they've finally had enough?
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ok, can SOMEONE please tell me what the purpose of pulling certs is? 1. It won't prove NSS, if there is any, because not everyone will pull certs. And, anyway, they can easily find out the o/s in people's accts. the same way other companies find out to distribute divies. 2. If the stock is in my acct., then I'm a bona fide shareholder. If electronic shares work for every other pos pink sheet, why is this one different?
Its a monumental task and I would really like to know the purpose. Unless, ok, I'm just dumb and I don't see what everyone else sees. So explain it to me.
Even if the amazing happens and its about some pie-in-the-sky settlement, why can't they go through regular channels to find out who is holding what, where?
Or, I have an idea. They are using this cert pull to let the statute of limitations run out on their criminal activity. That's as good as any other reason.
Posts: 81 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by legaleagle: Well, Up, first it isn't a divy, it's a "liquidation of assets" and the company has a right to demand proof of ownership if anyone wants to participate in the liquidation.
And it isn't three guys and a fax. I spoke to Bill yesterday and his staff has spent all of their time revamping their mechanical systems to accomodate the crush.
And 700 billion isn't hard to count when certs are coming in for 200 million, 500 million, a billion, etc.
And that proof of ownership exists somewhere or at least it certainly should. Three guys and a fax, 5 guys or 20 guys, it's still a Herculean effort to accomplish in a months time when you're talking about 60,000 people. And aside from a p/r and a web site, what effort is the company and its vaunted "task force" taking to insure every shareholder is identified? None.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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1st reason is to stay off lawsuits against UC by covering up his mismanagement and probable embezzlement. If they can make the shareholders believe this failure is due to NSS and not UC then he gets away scott free.
2nd reason which is also needed to fulfill first, is the fact that I am not sure that you can give dividends to a revoked company because the SEC says that:
No member of a national securities exchange, broker, or dealer shall make use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce to effect any transaction in a revoked security.
Now reading that, I don't see how you can issue a divy to a revoked stock held by a broker. Now if you hold the cert then the above does not apply. But the reason the company doesn't use this excuse is it wouldn't benefit them too. They need to blame this disaster on someone and saying it's to findd NSS places the blame somewhere else.
quote:Originally posted by viqutorious: Ok, can SOMEONE please tell me what the purpose of pulling certs is? 1. It won't prove NSS, if there is any, because not everyone will pull certs. And, anyway, they can easily find out the o/s in people's accts. the same way other companies find out to distribute divies. 2. If the stock is in my acct., then I'm a bona fide shareholder. If electronic shares work for every other pos pink sheet, why is this one different?
Its a monumental task and I would really like to know the purpose. Unless, ok, I'm just dumb and I don't see what everyone else sees. So explain it to me.
Even if the amazing happens and its about some pie-in-the-sky settlement, why can't they go through regular channels to find out who is holding what, where?
Or, I have an idea. They are using this cert pull to let the statute of limitations run out on their criminal activity. That's as good as any other reason.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Havent seen this mentioned yet, so I'll do it. Unless my brain cells are fried, this maneuver will accomplish absolutely nothing as regards any short positions. For that to happen, EVERY VALID SHAREHOLDER would have to pull their certs and make the fax call. If even ONE does not do this, the numbers have to come out wrong. You cannot get a total share count if one guy with 100,000 shares doesnt pull and fax. So the count can only be used for the division of shares from ETGMF, nothing else, and anyone who doesnt pull and fax will receive ZILCH!!! Anybody got an argument with that??
-------------------- If I give you bad information, please feel free to sue me. I have nothing left anyway. Ed Posts: 1772 | From: Oxford, PA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Excuse my ignorance, but when your broker settles a transaction, and your shares are listed with your broker, in your account, this IS proof of ownership. What the UC scam is doing, is continuing the scam, by limiting the number of people who are willing to participate, by forcing them to get physical certs and IMO, doing this to think they can "save face" AND limit the number of " divvy shares " distributed. I think Ric and Upside are right, this probably is illegal. (Consult an attorney for verification). With that, I also think he is doing this, to liquidate EVERY asset that CMKM has, so all the debt defaults are screwed....I smell MANY civil lawsuits coming....JMHO.....GL....
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Something is better than nothing. ETGMF may or may not go up, CMKX will stay where it's at.
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ed19363: Havent seen this mentioned yet, so I'll do it. Unless my brain cells are fried, this maneuver will accomplish absolutely nothing as regards any short positions. For that to happen, EVERY VALID SHAREHOLDER would have to pull their certs and make the fax call. If even ONE does not do this, the numbers have to come out wrong. You cannot get a total share count if one guy with 100,000 shares doesnt pull and fax. So the count can only be used for the division of shares from ETGMF, nothing else, and anyone who doesnt pull and fax will receive ZILCH!!! Anybody got an argument with that??
I do. I believe you own a business, right Ed? Let's say you owned it with 2 other guys, you hold 50% of the stock and the other two own 25% each. You being the majority stock holder decide to liquidate by a certain date. You say that the other 2 guys have to turn in their stock to you by a given date. For whatever reason one of the two can't do it, illness, out of town, whatever. Can you legally say screw him and split the assests 50/50 with the other guy thereby giving him 25% more than what he's entitled to and cutting the other guy out? Of course not. Same principal applies here. If you own 1% of CMKX but only 50% of the shares are faxed in, you're not entitled to 2%, your cut would still be 1%. In my opinion, these shares will never be distributed because they will never get 100% participation. They'll claim they're holding them in escrow or some other cockamamie excuse until all shares are accounted for which will never happen. There are other proper and professional avenues to follow if this truly is the plan of the company. As it is, it's just a stalling tactic to keep shareholders at bay.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Up, I see your point. They will never get 100%, but what is to keep them from issuing the shares to those who DO fax their certs? And maybe hold the rest in escrow?? I dont know, I'm still grasping at straws, trying to get something back in return for waiting several years. I mean, WTF? I could have smoked a lot more cigarettes if I didnt have this money tied up...LOL
-------------------- If I give you bad information, please feel free to sue me. I have nothing left anyway. Ed Posts: 1772 | From: Oxford, PA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Oh, and by the way, they still wont be able to prove NSS with this move, either.
-------------------- If I give you bad information, please feel free to sue me. I have nothing left anyway. Ed Posts: 1772 | From: Oxford, PA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
That's plausible Up. I just hope it gets some publicity. If say 800 billion come up before 2006. It may be all in the NHRA...(lol) UC will want to keep them hotrods going, so he'll need some kind of avenue.
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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Here's some funny chit for you guys: http://cmkxdiamond.pro boards 66.com/index.cgi?board=general1
Replace the spaces.....
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I think what keeps any of this from getting publicity is the fact this company dumped 703 billion shares. Legal tries to sugar coat that but everyone that looks at this sees the o/s and wants nothing to do with it and laughs at anyone that tries to say it is legit. No one that is big in the investment world is going to take a pinksheet with 703 billion shares seriously.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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57 is funnier, But I can't go there anymore. It has got so out of hand it is scary to read their posts. They lost all sense of reality on that board.
[ November 09, 2005, 20:39: Message edited by: Ric ]
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ed19363: Up, I see your point. They will never get 100%, but what is to keep them from issuing the shares to those who DO fax their certs? And maybe hold the rest in escrow?? I dont know, I'm still grasping at straws, trying to get something back in return for waiting several years. I mean, WTF? I could have smoked a lot more cigarettes if I didnt have this money tied up...LOL
There's probably nothing to hold up the distribution to the ones who do report in but they'll come up with something. Maybe the fact that the shares are going to be restricted and they can't be given out with differing dates? Who knows, like I said, they'll find a reason, and everyone will praise them for it too.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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If you're in you win. If you doubt........ Oh yeah that's right.
Those of you with shares should pull your certs if you want a piece of whatever action is coming. If you don't want it, don't pull your certs. It's that simple.
If 703 billion in certed shares are pulled and the distribution is made and announced, there is going to be a lot of electronic holders surrounding the DTCC with torches and pitchforks. That's when the NS will be obvious.
But don't worry, IMO, the final holdouts will settle. The SEC and DTCC are already being pressured by forces national and international.
As for the naysayers, what's the point? Nobody can get in or out. All of the negativity in the world won't change that.
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by legaleagle: If you're in you win. If you doubt........ Oh yeah that's right.
Those of you with shares should pull your certs if you want a piece of whatever action is coming. If you don't want it, don't pull your certs. It's that simple.
If 703 billion in certed shares are pulled and the distribution is made and announced, there is going to be a lot of electronic holders surrounding the DTCC with torches and pitchforks. That's when the NS will be obvious.
But don't worry, IMO, the final holdouts will settle. The SEC and DTCC are already being pressured by forces national and international.
As for the naysayers, what's the point? Nobody can get in or out. All of the negativity in the world won't change that.
Good post Legal. Agree 100%. All this BS about the cert pull and divys not being legal, and lawsuits and of course the bashers favorite, the ole Securities Exchange Act of 1936, while it's already started and going on all around them but they just can't see it. The blind leading the blind, or more like the cert-less leading the cert-less. I'd be bitter to if I was too weak to hold out to the end and missed out on what could be a golden opportunity. Oh well, you rolls the dice you takes your chances. Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong, and nothing said on this board or anywhere else means squat. So have your fun bashing away for the next few months boys, then we can come back and talk about who came out on top, the bashers or the koolaid drinkers. Till then.
Posts: 170 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Talk about the blind leading the blind. Making up settlement stories and the blind following it like its the truth. Now thats funny. But will you be back here when this settlement fails and NSS falls to the wayside to apologize.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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::STAMP!!:: certified koolaid for everyone (you must be bona fide....sounds like a fu**** to me)! Oh, and there's a new flavor from our koolaid friend....ssshhhh ETGMF....Hey Kool-Aid!!!! LOL
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ric: Talk about the blind leading the blind. Making up settlement stories and the blind following it like its the truth. Now thats funny. But will you be back here when this settlement fails and NSS falls to the wayside to apologize.
I would, but I'm neither pumping nor bashing the "settlement" and NSS issues. That's wishful thinking IMO, and a bonus if it happens. But I do believe that cert holders will get their divys in Entourage with no legal problems or other issues and live to trade another day with the company that now controls the bulk of the former CMKX property. That's where the true potential lies, IMO, and not with the idea of getting rich off of some settlement with the MMs. If cert-holders don't get their divys as promised and this all falls through, I'll be the first one in line here to eat my share of crow pie. But I wouldn't start makng that pie just yet.
Posts: 170 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I believe they will get divy's in ETGMF too. But the CEO already said they would be restricted. The legal concern is whether CMKX needs to notify everyone in writing about the cert pull. I don't think it's legal to be selective. Not under SEC rules but under Corporate law. I am a partner in a LLC. I must be notified in writing about any financial or legal company business under incorporation laws. But not to say that divy's won't be given, I am sure they will at some point, a huge r/s basically though. I don't think your getting much of anything else though.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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And I still think it was a way for insiders to make money off CMKX shareholders while making it look like they gave you something in return. They bought up shares long before this deal was let out. Thats the other legal issue of whether insider trading is going on and whether they are making even more money off this deal. That still isn't CMKX shareholders problem but could be UC's. The only way it may be the shareholders problem is if there was a plan with the company before hand and the SEC gets involved.
But you will still get your restricted ETGMF shares no matter if what I say is true or not.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ric, you're getting crazy again. I know they can make you argue with yourself. RELAX !
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Now as far as pulling certs, that up to the shareholder too. Lets say you have 5 Million share and if your getting 72 shares for every million CMKX that would mean you get 360 shares of ETGMF. So if the cost of certs is $40 then ETGMF would have to be .12 to break even. The CEO said that he was scared that CMKX shareholders would take over the company thats why they are restricted so by the time they unrestrict it you would have to assume they will raise o/s to keep themselves in charge. Thats dilution and dilution drives down price per share. Also the certs to CMKX shareholders as divys is dilution so the .46 that it is at right now would probably decrease before restriction is lifted.
So If you feel you might come out at least a little ahead, remember commission and transfer cost to turn restricted to unrestricted shares. What iss it worth to you to pull. If it is worth it then you better pull your certs and get your divy's.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by will: Ric, you're getting crazy again. I know they can make you argue with yourself. RELAX !
It is a better conversation with myself, lol.
Besides, I have been in a waiting room at the doctors office all day today with a 5 year old while waiting for my wifes check-up to get on the transplant list. They took forever and my daughter was bored to death. Nice to relax and relieve the tension, lol.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Heres a helpful advise for all that get ETGMF shares. Do not deposit the certs of ETGMF into a brokerage account until after you can get them unrestricted. If you do it yourself then the cost is cut tremendously. And if the company is for the shareholders then they won't charge you at all. It will be work because you will need to contact the company and have them send you an opinion letter stating that you can unrestrict your shares then you would mail in your certs with the letter to get new certs that are unrestricted. Then you can deposit them in your brokerage account so you can trade them.
If you deposit the cert in the brokerage right away then have them unrestrict the shares for you, it will cost between $150 to $250 dollars depending on who you have as a broker. Because as you see above it is work to unrestrict shares even after 2 years when an opinion letter isn't needed they will charge you this much. The TA charges them a fee to but as I said if you do it yourself, you may be able to get the company to pay the TA fees for you to unrestrict if the company is worth a grain of salt.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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