posted
But the Jefferies letter had nothing to do with NSS except for what the OG has inferred it has. The letter clearly stated it was long sells and that they were covered. But the cult refuses to believe thats true. But just like all their theories, just because you want to believe a theory doesn't make it true.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart.
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Frizzell is saying he will issue an extensive and detailed update, tomorrow late or Tuesday morning. Then he will come into Sterlings PalTalk and take questions. Should be very interesting.
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If you look at the Jefferies letter and compare the sales to those on the master shareholders list you will find some interesting names that keep reappearing on those dates. I assume that other MM's were involved then Jeff. But here are a few that I found interesting and Grant Hodgings seems to have been a big player in this. Of course some I list may be innocent in this just a quick observation. Remember Certs maybe settled the next day.
Grant Hodging Eric Reid James Kinney Glen Emmens Wallace Hiebelhaus
Then theres these trust, holding co., and properties inc's. I know these have something to do with this because they were issued shares when Jefferies said someone contacted him. And they are involved in most of the dates on Jefferries letters. When they weren't Eric Reid and Grant Hodging sure was. Just look at 3/23/2004 and each of these were issued shares together and are all involved on different days that corrispond with the Jefferies letter.
71st Street Holdings Eton Properties Jon Di Properties GM Steel Trust PTI Trust Federal One Investments Consistorium Patrium S.A
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart.
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if you google that computer clearing services you see they are a middleman. if a company wants to put shares into the market & not thru 1 mm these are the kind of guys you call. you hand them shares & for a fee they dump them into the market through differant mm's. finding out who hired them would be a good peice of info. i'm betting UC never talked to the directly but he might have.
if this sting idea held water UC would not have cryed the 5th in court. UC would have had records of every dollar & shares. they would need them to prove the targets of the sting did as the cult believes. the cops would have an auditor standing by to go over those records. you wouldn't have 2 auditors doing as they did, 1 quit & 1 wanting to know why illegal things were done & both asking for records. to follow the stings so called paper trail you first need records of that trail. legal, your sting idea is the last desparate hope of a scammed group of ppl. martin knows pointing any finger at UC will kill the OG. he said so in a way in the letter when he mentioned the cults blindness towards UC........
"There are those of you who are so caught up in UC, that you can’t see what has happened (I know, because I was there);"
they are trying to tell you what probably happened & are smart enough to know as the line from the movie goes..."you can't handle the truth." this sting belief is proof of that fact.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place"
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Actually bill, taking the fifth in a civil hearing is perfectly logical if you are co-operating in a criminal investigation and prosecution.
You assume that he doesn't have the records. And of course "they" do need them for prosecution, and yes the investigators would have auditors going over them for presentation to the Grand Jury. They wouldn't want them getting "mucked up" by an auditor recommended by John Edwards especially, or any civilian auditor for that matter. Actually your comments go farther to showing that it is a sting, than not.
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WALLACE: I am surprised as you claimed to have read 14c. Did you miss the fact that if CMKX goes to receivership the 'SELLERS" get the claims ?
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Obviously you haven't read anything since March or you would realize this is a scam. This isn't rocket science, a ten year old could figure out what this stock is.
-------------------- Learn the hard way with pennies
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quote:Originally posted by TANGO42: WALLACE: I am surprised as you claimed to have read 14c. Did you miss the fact that if CMKX goes to receivership the 'SELLERS" get the claims ?
According to some, those claims are in the hands of a third party already. Besides, they have NO PROVEN VALUE anyway, so no big loss.
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lets see then...according to your idea legal its a sting & they do have records & a goverment auditor...ok then UC lied in a pr, stocklien lied in a pr & in court in fact they lied in a number of prs. they hired 2 auditors costing about $200K total. both auditors said there wasn't anything to audit. stockliens accounting arm lied in court. all this lying to fool ppl that if they didn't have the goods on by the time cmkx got to court they never would catch. remember the dilution ended about january.....1 question legal...does your eye twitch when you tell yourself this sting idea has merit??? i think the biggest lying going on is anyone thinking this is a sting, lying to themselves.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place"
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I do like the eye twitch. I don't know bill. As far out as this sting and the new post he made on PB called Common Sense Time, I am wondering if legal actually believes this stuff he's posting or is he having way to much fun making stuff up. I hope the latter for his sake.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart.
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Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 4,060 DOJ and UC: Out To Destroy Stockholder Value??? « Thread Started on Today at 7:03am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, let me get this clear regarding the STING THING hypothesis.
The DJ decides it wants to catch some bad guys, therefore, it tells UC and Company that they are not to continue to build CM shareholder value--the one and only purpose for a legit business--by doing all those things necessary to increase shareholder value via the stock price, i.e., enter into profitable new contracts, report positive exploration results to the market place, focus on business (rather than a staged SEC attack costing millions of dollars), etc., etc., etc. Therefore, CU is directed to cooperate with the DOJ but in the process run a publicly traded company, CMKM, into the ground.
This decision by the DOJ (who by the way, within the DOJ, will eventually take the heat for the massive loss of money to present CMKM stockholders?....and how could UC, the CEO of a company, and with his primary responsibility to his shareholders first and not the DOJ, make such a decision to literally destroy stockholder value) allows some bad guys to run the price of CMKX stock into the ground via the massive selling of shares, to the tune of possibly $390 Million dollars--as per Frizzell's e-mail of last week--thus causing approximately 60,000 share holders to lose hundreds of millions of dollars of stock value, possibly causing thousands of CMKM stockholders to sell tens/hundreds of millions of dollars of CMKM stock at a steep financial loss, most likely never to be recovered.
Meanwhile, Edwards, et al are sipping pina coladas on some "exotic island" as hundreds, if not thousands of lives are damaged due to the investment and subsequent loss in CMKM stock....all because the DOJ wants to catch a few stock manipulators, and, the CEO of CMKM decides it is best to help the DOJ, and in the process cause massive financial loss to those who he, UC, is obligated to do everything in his power to work on the behalf of to create shareholder value.
Yeah, right...this has got to be a STING THING!
Ok, lets assume this is a sting. If so, can you imaging the heat and law suits the DOJ, UC, and all involved would eventually end up in from CMKM stockholders who have been financially damaged from all this?
Bottom line: I do not believe UC or any CEO in his/her right mind would enter into an agreement with the DOJ to run CMKM into the ground to catch a few bad guys...all IMO.
CDLIC
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart.
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Ric, since you want to bring CDLIC's post here, I thought in balance maybe we should have Noah's repsonses as well.
noahltl God of Diamonds
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Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 743 Re: DOJ and UC: Out To Destroy Stockholder Value?? « Reply #14 on Today at 8:17am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your counter-theory presupposes that UC has ceased building shareholder value and drove the company "into the ground".
The only people who have lost any money, are those who sold on such rumors.
There is no liability to the government if they are merely monitoring and gathering information of a business in which "some" are performing illegal acts already.
noahltl God of Diamonds
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Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 743 Re: DOJ and UC: Out To Destroy Stockholder Value?? « Reply #18 on Today at 8:38am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no doubt in my mind that criminal dilution and diversion of massive amounts of shares has occured.
The question is who and why at this point.
If there is no government investigation involved here, then you are accusing UC, RG and IBM of crminal intent, misfeasance, and theft.
If not directly, then by complicity.
Is that the point of your post?
noahltl God of Diamonds
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Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 743 Re: DOJ and UC: Out To Destroy Stockholder Value?? « Reply #23 on Today at 8:56am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CDLIC, you are probably right, no CEO would "cause" such a drain on his company. And especially wouldn't record it in the Corporate Minutes. (100-1 forward split).
But I think a responsible CEO, operating under extortionate manipulation (see John Martin letter) would allow the DOJ to record and monitor what was already occuring, in order to bring an end to it.
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if it was a sting UC could keep drilling & looking for whatever. the sting would not stop that. however allowing 703 billion into the o/s destroys any value UC might dig up. the sting idea has more holes then a collander. who will be buying the shares thaty were dumped into cmkx? the bad guys??? ya right. if the money isn't spent its hidden so deep nobody will find it. no money trail will open accounts in offshore banks. r/s this thing down to the couple hundred million it should be at and that toilet paper roll of certs will be down to its last sheet.
a few things are due...frizzys bad guy list & the brief for their appeal.that brief ought to be good for a laugh or 2.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place"
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1 would think that if cmkx sent the brief into the court today they would say something. its not like the stock is about to be revoked or anything but.....oh wait it is about to be revoked. ya think maybe the shareholders MIGHT HAVE SOME INTEREST IN THAT BRIEF?????....f'in morons
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place"
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After reading Frizzell's letter it is quite obvious that the unspoken and unspecified person who should be included as liable is Urban Casavant. Frzzell just left his name out, but left it open to be included at a later date. One has to only read between the lines in addition to the actual lines.
Frizzell has stated that Edwards and others got their shares directly through or from Urban Casavant. There appears to be no question that that was the case. Therefore, logic dictates that Urban Casavant is just as legally responsible as those identified may or may not be liable. How anyone can think otherwise is beyond belief.
Frizzell also made it clear the while all the above diluent issuances were being made, positive PRs were consistently being reported. We all know that as fact.
Didn't Frizzell suggest that Edward's having taken the 5th was indicative of wrong doing? What about Urban Casavant doing the same thing.
In addition to taking the 5th, Urban grossly failed the legal dictates and requirements of his fiduciary duties. He kept no proper records, and, as President of CMKX, it was his responsibility to be sure such records were kept and remained current. He outright lied about the progression of financial documents and their publication. He outright lied about the company's address. He outright lied about information on the company's Form 15. He misled shareholders and potential shareholders in public releases. He appears to have misued and misappropriated company funds. I am sure there are other specific incidents or lack thereof.
The only reason I can think of as to why Frizzell has not included Urban Casavant's name is because Martin is his original/first OG client and that he has been directed not to include Urban Casavant. There is no question in my mind that Martin will be the main plaintiff if any action is taken in a class action or any other form. However, if Urban Casavant is not included, it will be a disservice to ALL present and past shareholders.
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Well, as I said earlier. If Frizzell states UC's name now then he would not receive another dime from the die hard UC supporters. But by naming others the funds will increase and UC's name will come out in the suit. Because all those listed are not going to take the heat for UC.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart.
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If it is UC he should go to jail, if it is not UC then lots of people owe him an apology. I am fine either way. If it is him i hope he goes to jail in jersey, i got friends there who can make all nice and cozy.
-------------------- I don't play well with others, and have a problem with authority. I love to see the big guy fall to the under-dog.
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ya beat me to it wallace....old but quick, i'll give ya that...lol. he did everything but name UC & notice he put the reporting & hiring of stocklien on mahoo, not UC. he also asked both see this letter, maybe hoping something wakes up the only guy older then wallace in this soap opera, or at least as old as wallace...lol. notice he did say checks from edwards went to the company along with other accounts. i got a feeling it was killing him not to put UC's name on the top of the list.
as for stockliens brief...that was boring. he should have just said "hey, i'm the company lawyer, i'm paid to disagree with the judge. give me a break. notice, no mention that its almost 5 months past due & no records to even start auditing. unless of course your hooked on the sting thing, then the DOJ already has audited records but they are classified top secret, national security & all.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place"
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"maybe hoping something wakes up the only guy older then wallace in this soap opera, or at least as old as wallace...lol"
He's older smartass. LOL Good point about the checks too. I left that out. Stocklein seems to have repeated the same things as before.
Bed time for this old fart now. Good night.
PS: I think the one good person involved just might be Frizzell, but his hands are really tied. Too bad. He should have more freedom to be open.
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Yesterday at 11:59pm, phxgold wrote:I believe we will discover the toxic financing was well before the shell was bought from cybermark. it is my opinion the financing came from chancery corporate services out of the bahamas. chancey corporate services represented 2 trusts 1 tinto inc 1 dungavel inc. dungavel has a sub called duval inc. look into pedros document you will find them both. look at the days they are issued shares. look into the days those shares are surrendered. add up the share totas surrendered. then take a gander at the share totals issued on the same days to edwards companies listed by frizzell at the known maildrops. i believe you can find the company names under some neat pictures on the og site. notice on those days that tinto or dungavel surrender theyre shares en mass none or very few are issued to cede. that shows they were not put into street name but transferred from one entity to another. add up the totals. dont go on a witch hunt. sort that pdf by date. everyday tells an interresting story. ~Phx
phxgold Diamondologist
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Joined: Dec 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 434 Re: PHX GOLD COMMENT PLEASE « Reply #3 on Today at 12:49am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12/15/2003 how many shares were surrendered in total? 5,255,463,712 how many were issued to cede and company? 430,207,000 so who were the shares surrendered to? if it wasnt cede they werent dumped. just sort by date youll find alot of this. also i find it interresting how many certs are missing from the register but all the shares are apparently accounted for according to this document pedro posted. ~Phx
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look at tinto and duval on 1/6/04 each surrenders a total of 2.5b shares a piece but eace are issued 2.5b a piece cede is issues 1,000,038,437 shares 5,000,000,000 out 5,000,000,000 in= no change
although cede and co surrendered 58,437 and ib 2000 surrendered 1,000,000,000
so 5,000,000,000 shares surrendered by chancery(tinto and duval) 1,000,000,000 shares surrendered by ib 2000 58,437 shares surrendered by cede ------------------------ 6,000,058,437 shares surrendered looks like dumping huh? well no
5,000,000,000 shares issued to chancery(tinto and duval) 1,000,038,437 shares to cede 20,000 shares to some schmuk named robert h ------------------- 6,000,058,437
thats the wash plus 5billion shares issued. but as you see what appears to be a dump isnt in alot of cases if you do the math you see surrendered dosent necessarily mean sold. as shares surrendered on any given day(if sold) onto the market should reflect in the shares issued to CEDE. jmo ~Phx
1/8/04 same thing chancery surrenders 5b total issued 5b total 1/8/04 total surrendered 7,350,000,000 total issued to cede 1,350,000,000 how can that be dumping? if the shares never went to cede to dump? again 5bill of it was a wash
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