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Author Topic: Nuclear War??? NKorea threatens to harm US if attacked
Ace of Spades
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NKorea threatens to harm US if attacked!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea boasted of being a "proud nuclear power" and threatened Monday to harm the U.S. if attacked as tensions mounted over a possible crackdown on exports of suspected missile parts from the North.

President Barack Obama said the U.S. is ready to cope with "any contingencies" involving North Korea and vowed not to "reward belligerence and provocation."

South Korea's YTN news network reported Sunday that a U.S. Navy destroyer tailing a North Korean ship suspected of carrying missiles and related parts was headed toward Myanmar in what could be the first test of new U.N. sanctions against the North over its recent nuclear test.

The sanctions — punishment for an underground nuclear test North Korea conducted May 25 — firm up an earlier arms embargo against North Korea and authorize ship searches in an attempt to thwart the regime's nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.

On Monday, North Korea's main Rodong Sinmun newspaper called it "nonsense" to say the country is a threat to the U.S., and instead claimed Washington was the one threatening the North. The paper also warned in a commentary that the country is prepared to strike back if attacked.

"As long as our country has become a proud nuclear power, the U.S. should take a correct look at whom it is dealing with," the editorial said. "It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula."

The Rodong Sinmun also denounced Obama's recent pledge to defend and protect South Korea — even promising to keep Seoul "under the U.S. nuclear umbrella" — as an attempt to attack the North with atomic bombs. Obama made the commitment in a joint statement after a summit last week with South Korea's President Lee Myung-bak.

North Korea calls its nuclear program a deterrent against the U.S., which Pyongyang routinely accuses of plotting to topple the communist regime. The U.S., which has 28,500 troops in South Korea, has said it has no such intentions, and has no nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula.

Obama said the U.S. is prepared for any North Korean provocation, including the regime's reported threat to test-launch a long-range missile toward Hawaii.

Japanese media have reported that the North Koreans appear to be preparing for a long-range test planned sometime around July 4, the Independence Day holiday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protections for Hawaii as a precaution.

"This administration — and our military — is fully prepared for any contingencies," Obama said Friday during an interview with CBS News' "The Early Show" to be broadcast Monday.

"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."

A North Korean cargo ship, the Kang Nam, is expected to travel to Myanmar via Singapore, YTN said, citing an unidentified intelligence source in South Korea.

Myanmar's military government, which faces an arms embargo from the United States and the European Union, reportedly has bought weapons from the North in the past.

Two U.S. officials said Thursday that the U.S. military had begun tracking the ship, which left a North Korean port on Wednesday.

One official said it was uncertain what the Kang Nam was carrying but that it had been involved in weapons proliferation before. Both spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence.

A senior U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday that a Navy ship, the USS John S. McCain, is relatively close to the North Korean vessel but had no orders to intercept it under the Security Council resolution and had not requested that authority. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The U.S. ship, a guided missile destroyer, is named after the grandfather and father of former U.S. presidential candidate Sen. John McCain. Both were admirals.

McCain said Sunday that the U.S. should board the Kang Nam even without North Korean permission if hard evidence shows it is carrying missiles or other cargo in violation of U.N. resolutions.

"I think we should board it. It's going to contribute to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction to rogue nations that pose a direct threat to the United States," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
NKorea threatens to harm US if attacked!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea boasted of being a "proud nuclear power" and threatened Monday to harm the U.S. if attacked as tensions mounted over a possible crackdown on exports of suspected missile parts from the North.

President Barack Obama said the U.S. is ready to cope with "any contingencies" involving North Korea and vowed not to "reward belligerence and provocation."

South Korea's YTN news network reported Sunday that a U.S. Navy destroyer tailing a North Korean ship suspected of carrying missiles and related parts was headed toward Myanmar in what could be the first test of new U.N. sanctions against the North over its recent nuclear test.

The sanctions — punishment for an underground nuclear test North Korea conducted May 25 — firm up an earlier arms embargo against North Korea and authorize ship searches in an attempt to thwart the regime's nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.

On Monday, North Korea's main Rodong Sinmun newspaper called it "nonsense" to say the country is a threat to the U.S., and instead claimed Washington was the one threatening the North. The paper also warned in a commentary that the country is prepared to strike back if attacked.

"As long as our country has become a proud nuclear power, the U.S. should take a correct look at whom it is dealing with," the editorial said. "It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula."

The Rodong Sinmun also denounced Obama's recent pledge to defend and protect South Korea — even promising to keep Seoul "under the U.S. nuclear umbrella" — as an attempt to attack the North with atomic bombs. Obama made the commitment in a joint statement after a summit last week with South Korea's President Lee Myung-bak.

North Korea calls its nuclear program a deterrent against the U.S., which Pyongyang routinely accuses of plotting to topple the communist regime. The U.S., which has 28,500 troops in South Korea, has said it has no such intentions, and has no nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula.

Obama said the U.S. is prepared for any North Korean provocation, including the regime's reported threat to test-launch a long-range missile toward Hawaii.

Japanese media have reported that the North Koreans appear to be preparing for a long-range test planned sometime around July 4, the Independence Day holiday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protections for Hawaii as a precaution.

"This administration — and our military — is fully prepared for any contingencies," Obama said Friday during an interview with CBS News' "The Early Show" to be broadcast Monday.

"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."

A North Korean cargo ship, the Kang Nam, is expected to travel to Myanmar via Singapore, YTN said, citing an unidentified intelligence source in South Korea.

Myanmar's military government, which faces an arms embargo from the United States and the European Union, reportedly has bought weapons from the North in the past.

Two U.S. officials said Thursday that the U.S. military had begun tracking the ship, which left a North Korean port on Wednesday.

One official said it was uncertain what the Kang Nam was carrying but that it had been involved in weapons proliferation before. Both spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence.

A senior U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday that a Navy ship, the USS John S. McCain, is relatively close to the North Korean vessel but had no orders to intercept it under the Security Council resolution and had not requested that authority. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The U.S. ship, a guided missile destroyer, is named after the grandfather and father of former U.S. presidential candidate Sen. John McCain. Both were admirals.

McCain said Sunday that the U.S. should board the Kang Nam even without North Korean permission if hard evidence shows it is carrying missiles or other cargo in violation of U.N. resolutions.

"I think we should board it. It's going to contribute to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction to rogue nations that pose a direct threat to the United States," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

The UN is so pathetic. They are weak, corrupt, and a waste of time.
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glassman
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the UN is weak because you and i don't want the UN running OUR lives.

we can't use it to run others lives if we don't submit, and i do not want to submit, do you?

all political organisations are corrupt, and "conserviative theory" calls for a small ( you can substitute weak for small) government.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the UN is weak because you and i don't want the UN running OUR lives.

we can't use it to run others lives if we don't submit, and i do not want to submit, do you?

all political organisations are corrupt, and "conserviative theory" calls for a small ( you can substitute weak for small) government.

Submitting to the UN? HELL NO. It isnt for the people it should be for governments in a minimal sense. The UN wants a GLOBAL gun ban, dont think that will work too well in the states if you ask me.
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Ace of Spades
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The UN was set up by and for the New World Order organization and leaders...
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CashCowMoo
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Global citizenship, global currency, and global law.

disgusting.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Ace of Spades
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North Korea accuses the U.S. of provoking another war and warns it will wipe America off the map

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_nuclear

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_nuclear

N. Korea threatens US; world anticipates missile

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea accused Washington of seeking to "provoke a second Korean War" as the regime prepared to hold maritime military exercises off the eastern coast.

U.S. and regional authorities were watching closely for signs that North Korea might fire short- or mid-range missiles during the June 25 to July 10 timeframe cited in a no-sail ban for military drills sent to Japan's Coast Guard.

North Korea had warned previously it would fire a long-range missile as a response to U.N. Security Council condemnation of an April rocket launch seen as a cover for its ballistic missile technology.

An underground nuclear test last month drew more Security Council action: a resolution seeking to clamp down on North Korea's trading of banned arms and weapons-related material by requiring U.N. member states to request inspections of ships carrying suspected cargo.

In a first test of the new resolution, a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons was sailing off China's coast with a U.S. destroyer close behind.

The Kang Nam, which left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago, is believed bound for Myanmar, South Korean and U.S. officials said.

A senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was unable to discuss intelligence on the vessel, said Wednesday that the ship had already cleared the Taiwan Strait.

He said he didn't know how much range the Kang Nam has — that is, whether or when it may need to stop in some port to refuel — but that the Kang Nam has in the past stopped in Hong Kong's port.

North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war, and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to start another Korean War.

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," a dispatch from the official Korean Central News Agency said.

The warning came on the eve of the 59th anniversary of the outbreak of the Korean War. The brutal fighting ended after three years in a truce in 1953, not a peace treaty, leaving the peninsula divided and in a state of war. The U.S. has 28,500 troops in South Korea to protect against an outbreak of hostilities.

On Wednesday, the top U.S. commander in South Korea, Gen. Walter Sharp, praised soldiers from U.S.-led U.N. forces who died fighting the "tyranny" of communist North Korea decades ago.

"A North Korean victory in the Korean War would have brought the nightmare of tyranny to this great land, thrusting the citizens of the Republic of Korea into a darkness that their northern counterparts have yet to emerge from," he said a commemoration ceremony Wednesday, referring to South Korea by its official name, the Republic of Korea.

Reports about possible missile launches from the North highlighted the state of tension on the Korean peninsula.

A senior South Korean government official said the no-sail ban is believed connected to North Korean plans to fire short- or mid-range missiles. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing department policy.

Yonhap reported that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometers) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometers) during the no-sail period.

U.S. defense and counterproliferation officials in Washington said they also expected the North to launch short- to medium-range missiles. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.

South Korea will expedite the introduction of high-tech unmanned aerial surveillance systems and "bunker-buster" bombs in response to North Korea's provocations, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing lawmakers.

Meanwhile, a flurry of diplomatic efforts were under way to try getting North Korea to return to disarmament talks.

Russia's top nuclear envoy, Alexei Borodavkin, said after meeting with his South Korean counterpart that Moscow is open to other formats for discussion since Pyongyang has pulled out of formal six-nation negotiations.

In Beijing, top U.S. and Chinese defense officials also discussed North Korea. U.S. Defense Undersecretary Michele Flournoy was heading next to Tokyo and Seoul for talks.

South Korea has proposed high-level "consultations" to discuss North Korea with the U.S., Russia, China and Japan.

___

Associated Press writers Jae-soon Chang in Seoul, and Pauline Jelinek, Pamela Hess and Lolita Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.

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Ace of Spades
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More than 100,000 North Koreans gathered to protest against the U.S. and are rallying to Nuke us in retaliation...Uh Oh!!!
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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Global citizenship, global currency, and global law.

disgusting.

Oh you mean American Imperialism... disgusting indeed... [Wink]

now back to the topic of this thread... NK is just blowing smoke as usual to get what they want which is the lifting of embargoes and such... As much as they are crazy they are not stupid and know attacking us with nuclear weapons is a losing situation... so it's just a facade to get what they want like they did with all our presidents since Kim Jong became leader...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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CashCowMoo
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American imperialism? Now you are talking like Hugo, Kim Jong Il, and other dictators like Castro. You have Che glorified, and you just think nothing will ever happen with North Korea.

Well just what if they DID hit Hawaii with something? Would you still sit down to pee or would you find a pair and start flexing to put someone who is out of line back in line? Nations arent strong by weakness, and Kim Jong ill has nukes, chemo and bio weapons, and who knows what else. Now he is starting to get out of control, and people are passive as usual.

If we would have stopped this mess in the 90s we wouldnt be worrying about this crap. Clinton had your mentality and let them do their "business as usual" and not only that we hooked them up with aid if they promised to be good boys with nukes. Now look. That is what you get.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
American imperialism? Now you are talking like Hugo, Kim Jong Il, and other dictators like Castro. You have Che glorified, and you just think nothing will ever happen with North Korea.

Do you know what imperialism is? Here is a definition by Oxford Dictionary from 2007:

[Imperialism:] The belief in the desirability of the acquisition of colonies and dependencies, or the extension of a country's influence through trade, diplomacy, etc.

Do you think dictators are the only ones who call America a Imperialist nation Mooman? Because there not. Wherever we throw our weight we are called that and for good reason. We don't know how to mind our own business sometimes. Iraq is a perfect example as is the recent Iran election problem.

As for Che, I don't glorify him but I do admire some of his thoughts. I just didn't like his actions on how he put those thoughts into practice.

quote:
Well just what if they DID hit Hawaii with something? Would you still sit down to pee or would you find a pair and start flexing to put someone who is out of line back in line? Nations arent strong by weakness, and Kim Jong ill has nukes, chemo and bio weapons, and who knows what else. Now he is starting to get out of control, and people are passive as usual.

If we would have stopped this mess in the 90s we wouldnt be worrying about this crap. Clinton had your mentality and let them do their "business as usual" and not only that we hooked them up with aid if they promised to be good boys with nukes. Now look. That is what you get.

Know your history because since the 1948 or the end or stalemate of the Korean War, Kim Jong and his father have been blowing smoke to get what they want. That is pretty much a fact. So stop blaming Clinton because this has been going on for decades with NK and if memory serves me right about 6 Republican Presidents up to the present time have been in office and have done nothing about NK.

So other then South Korea don't you think NK would of attacked another nation outside of Korea by now in all those decades if they were serious? They afterall have the 4th largest standing army in the world.

Nukes? That is nothing new. They have had them for a long time. Other countries having Nukes as well is what keeps NK in check not to use theirs.This Nuke thing they had done before if you forgot already during the Bush years as well.The threat of Nukes etc.

Perhaps they do not attack other countries because Russia and China will no longer back them up militarily anymore? Like I said Kim Jung/NK are crazy but not stupid. They do not have the economic power to go to war that is a fact. They are blowing smoke as usual as well as you are as always.

Stop Mooing.

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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Nukes? That is nothing new. They have had them for a long time. Other countries having Nukes as well is what keeps NK in check not to use theirs.This Nuke thing they had done before if you forgot already during the Bush years as well.The threat of Nukes etc.

they set off an underground device.

that's not a weapon. there is absolutley no evidence they have any form of wepaonised nuclear device.

setting off an underground nuclear device is worlds away from being able to deliver one even by train.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Redeployment of US nuclear weapons in S. Korea?

Some conservatives argue the government should ask the U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) to re-deploy its tactical nuclear weapons to deter nuclear-armed North Korea.

Tactical nuclear weapons (TNWs) typically refer to short-range weapons, including land-based missiles with a range of up to 500 kilometers and air- and sea-launched weapons with a range of around 600 kilometers.

The USFK removed its TNWs in 1991. Prompted by mounting concerns about the security of nuclear weapons in the former Soviet Union, then U.S. President George Bush announced in September 1991 that the United States would eliminate its entire worldwide inventory of ground-launched TNWs and would remove all nuclear weapons from surface ships and attack submarines.

Jeon Seong-hoon at the Korea Institute for National Unification said, ``As North Korea's nuclear capability increases, the effectiveness of the U.S. nuclear umbrella could decrease. In that context, I believe, the redeployment of USFK's tactical nuclear weapons, at least on a temporary basis, could be the best option.''

A military official concurred. The official, who requested to remain anonymous, said the USFK should deploy tactical nuclear weapons again as long as it is not violating the 1991 Washington-Moscow arms control agreement.

``Redeployment of air-launched tactical nuclear weapons do not violate the 1991 agreement,'' the official said. ``If there were 10 tactical nuclear weapons in the South, North Korea's nuclear threat could be easily neutralized.''


we do not recognise N Korea as a nuclear power.

they do not have nuclear weapons.

the 2006 device they set off was so weak that there have been conventional US explosions that matched it.

it is even possible that N Korea faked the nuclear explosion by packing a non-critical mass of non-weapons grade plutonium within a very large conventional device.

in other words? this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

should we refuse to take the situation seriously? no, that would be worse than taking it too seriously. but only a little worse.

the 2009 device was only a little stronger than the 2006 device:

The senior U.S. military official said the seismic data indicated a "relatively small" bomb of around 1.5 kilotons, larger than North Korea's first underground nuclear test, in 2006, which exploded with a force of less than one kiloton. The first nuclear device tested by the U.S., in July 1945, amounted to 20 kilotons

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glassman
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North Korea has been a major supplier of missile technologies to Iran, Syria and Pakistan, and has been accused of selling nuclear technology to Syria and cooperating in developing Iran's ballistic missile program, according to U.S. officials. North Korea is believed to have expanded its weapons program slowly and steadily over the years, with assistance from the Soviet Union, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan, and Japanese and European electronics firms that knowingly or unwittingly sold necessary equipment to Pyongyang.

U.S. officials say North Korea now has six to 12 nuclear devices, and Pyongyang says it will begin reprocessing plutonium to produce more, after freezing such activities last year as part of an initial disarmament agreement with the U.S.

North Korea is seen as still needing to take some crucial steps to be able to use its nuclear devices as strategic weapons. The multistage, long-range missile tested in April, which landed in the Pacific Ocean, represented an advance, but the North Korean missiles are seen as erratic and not yet capable of hitting North America. The U.S. military says it believes North Korea hasn't mastered the technology to miniaturize a nuclear bomb to place it on a long-range missile. Officials also say the U.S. has little knowledge on how far the regime, sealed off from outsiders, has progressed to that goal.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124322074782250897.html

South Korea and China are N Korea's largest AID providers.
this really is their problem.

N Korea is only able to pursue this weaponisation of their devices BECAUSE of the AID they get from China and S Korea.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:

in other words? this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.


ahh so you agree with me that they are blowing smoke... to ruffle everyones' feathers to get what they want...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:

South Korea and China are N Korea's largest AID providers.
this really is their problem.

N Korea is only able to pursue this weaponisation of their devices BECAUSE of the AID they get from China and S Korea.

I really don't believe South Korea aids them in that regards...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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rounder1
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Since I have come to this board I have found myself in agreement with "Glassman" more often than not.....However, on this issue I think that we are going to part company.

N. Korea is a threat....if not today then they will be tomorrow.....we can argue about "when" tomorrow is but concede this:

There leader sees military might as a means to a financial end.....we should all recognize that there is no other motivation to equal it (excepting religion; in some sects). N. Korea will continue down this path until their bluff ceases to be a bluff. Act now!!! while it is still a bluff.

I was not alive for any of it; but, from what I have read......this could be the "Cuban Missile Crisis" for my generation......"No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).

You should never appease or coddle an agressor....and before anyone says that "the U.S. has been an agressor"; save your fingers.....cause I think that is horse ****! There have been "causes" that I agree with and "causes" that I did not; but, through out the history of this country.......I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by rounder1:
Since I have come to this board I have found myself in agreement with "Glassman" more often than not.....However, on this issue I think that we are going to part company.

You forgot me ... on this issue at least...

quote:
I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......
Some of us would beg to differ with you on the Iraq issue.
quote:
If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."
It is not our job nor our business to spank every azzhole in this world...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote Rounder1:

......."I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."

_________________________________________________

Yeah, lets get um all.

You be first in, I will talk to Glassman and Bond and a few others to see if they will follow.

I'll stay home and watch on my bigscreen and eat a little popcorn and see how it turns out.

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jordanreed
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peace at all costs...

war is death...

pacify the aggressor with reasonable, sane methods..

dont stick your nose up someone elses azz..

we are not the world police..

--------------------
jordan

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glassman
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No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).

OK, maybe you missed the part of my "article" where i said that the nuke devices they have set off, (iffffff they were even nukes) were not weaponised, or that they do not likely have a "deliverable" nuke..

Kim Jong Ill would have to nuke the South using a train [Wink] to deliver what they do have.

there is a diplomatic theory (as opposed to a miltiary theory) that becoming someones mortal enemy elevates you to their status and vice versa.

it's why, for instance, Bush would not have face to face talks with Iran...

he did not want to elevate them to the status of our level for (what that's worth).

that's what Kim Jong wants


Peace at all costs is how people become slaves JR,

while i recognise the truly immense power of Peaceful means to winning wars, you have no choice but o be prepared to die for something to own it.

The S Koreans are our true friends. I've known quite a few and still count some as personal friends. We should not fail them. What do they think we should do?

there are many S Koreans with families in the north.

in either Iran or N Korea? say we cut loose a couple hundred conventional (non-nuke) tomahawks and a couple hundred thousand tons of JDAMS to take out their whole economic infrastructure to stop them from becoming nukular ?

we'd kill alot people like the ones that we admire for standing up against Amadinejad in Iran.

it's not easy doing it correctly,

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Ace of Spades
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).

OK, maybe you missed the part of my "article" where i said that the nuke devices they have set off, (iffffff they were even nukes) were not weaponised, or that they do not likely have a "deliverable" nuke..

Kim Jong Ill would have to nuke the South using a train [Wink] to deliver what they do have.

there is a diplomatic theory (as opposed to a miltiary theory) that becoming someones mortal enemy elevates you to their status and vice versa.

it's why, for instance, Bush would not have face to face talks with Iran...

he did not want to elevate them to the status of our level for (what that's worth).

that's what Kim Jong wants


Peace at all costs is how people become slaves JR,

while i recognise the truly immense power of Peaceful means to winning wars, you have no choice but o be prepared to die for something to own it.

The S Koreans are our true friends. I've known quite a few and still count some as personal friends. We should not fail them. What do they think we should do?

there are many S Koreans with families in the north.

in either Iran or N Korea? say we cut loose a couple hundred conventional (non-nuke) tomahawks and a couple hundred thousand tons of JDAMS to take out their whole economic infrastructure to stop them from becoming nukular ?

we'd kill alot people like the ones that we admire for standing up against Amadinejad in Iran.

it's not easy doing it correctly,

From what I understand....North Korea has Nuclear weapons bought from other countries.....it doesn't matter if they have the technology to build one by themselfs.
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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
The S Koreans are our true friends.

I don't know about that. South Koreans have protested our military being there, our beef imports, our free trade policies etc.. etc... Imo no country is a friend of another country... we all need each other for one reason or another and call each other "friends" but were not...

I think the U.S. presence in S Korea is a necessary evil to them so they put up with us... Not saying were evil but you know what I mean... if they didn't need us because of the North Korean threat I think South Korea's attitude would be different towards us and we would have diplomacy problems with them... of course we would still be their "friend" but they would make issues difficult on us like trade, military etc..

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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From what I understand....North Korea has Nuclear weapons bought from other countries.....it doesn't matter if they have the technology to build one by themselfs.

got any references on that?

they bought knowledge from AQ Kahn (pakistan) but i've never heard anywhere that they have nuke weapons.

only that they have set off a pair of devices underground that are PROBABLY nuke devices.
we know they are very inefficient and are most likely cumbersome devices.

the first one was definitley a failure if it was even a real nuke.

it is possible to fake a nuke test, their test could have been a fake.

we officially removed all of our tactical nukes from the region becuase we do not recognise that thy have any nuke wepaons.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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I guess I should of said.peace at all costs until it is no longer feasable

--------------------
jordan

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jordanreed
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...and I dont think slavery is condusive to much peace..

--------------------
jordan

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rounder1
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All you have made very good points concernin my post.......I just feel like a fight with N. Korea is in the future, and I would rather it be sooner than later.

--------------------
"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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thinkmoney
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My question is - who will support us in ww3? it may off started but as it continues??

And, who are the players?

I say china is winning - economically - and, our foolish leaders - are spend until there is no USA- you cant spend a country to progress-

USSR will side with anyone against us -

The Muslims will fight til the end at their fullest while USA deliberates whether ok to waterboard while they spew hate at us and continue beheading and war ?

The muslims are recruting the prison population and hence inroads to black america to side with ISlam -

So, who will be on our side? The west europeans are unstable - countries rocked by their muslim population -
demanding foot baths but no christian crosses as in USA -

I finally found who may support us - eastern europe and australia and possibly canada - maybe japan -

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rounder1
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quote:
Originally posted by thinkmoney:
My question is - who will support us in ww3? it may off started but as it continues??

And, who are the players?

I say china is winning - economically - and, our foolish leaders - are spend until there is no USA- you cant spend a country to progress-

USSR will side with anyone against us -

The Muslims will fight til the end at their fullest while USA deliberates whether ok to waterboard while they spew hate at us and continue beheading and war ?

The muslims are recruting the prison population and hence inroads to black america to side with ISlam -

So, who will be on our side? The west europeans are unstable - countries rocked by their muslim population -
demanding foot baths but no christian crosses as in USA -

I finally found who may support us - eastern europe and australia and possibly canada - maybe japan -

you have raised a valid point; and that is part of the reason why I "think" that I am in favor of confronting certain nations "today".....so that they do get the opportunity to accumumate allies.


The world is much different today....even moreso than when I was a kid (which was not that long ago).

I think that everyone commenting is a "patriot"....we just disagree with what "way" is in the best interest of our country.

Perhaps we should look at the question as if we "hated America." If we were America's enemy......what course would be playing into our hands?
[Confused]

I do not usually like to quote famous people (whether they were brilliant or not).....I think that is better to "smith" your own words. However I can not resist.....

With regards to your curiosity about WW3......Einstein had this to say (loose paraphrase; but, giving credit any way)

"I have no idea what weapons will be used in WW3; but, I am pretty sure that WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

Most persons hold Einstein as genius.....not sure that I do; but, I do love that quote.

--------------------
"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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CashCowMoo
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HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer.


http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10610182


Air Force tests missile in launch from Calif coast

Associated Press - June 29, 2009 8:24 AM ET

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - The Air Force has successfully launched an unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile from the California coast to an area in the Pacific Ocean some 4,200 miles away.

Lt. Raymond Geoffroy says the ICBM was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base at 3:01 a.m. Monday and carried three unarmed re-entry vehicles to their targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

The missile, configured with a National Nuclear Security Administration Test Assembly, was launched under the direction of the 576th Flight Test Squadron.

The Air Force says the launch was an operational test to check the weapon system's reliability and accuracy, and the data will be used by United States Strategic Command planners and Department of Energy laboratories.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote CashCooMoo:

"HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer."

_________________________________________________


But the big question is, would you want to be in it again from just what you have read about the situation.

Any time we start flexing muscles we better be prepared to enter into another war.

I know you did not care for war the last time.

The one thing i always think when suggesting war is that, would i be willing to be first to sign up in front of others to fight for this country, for what i believe is right.

Do you think in this case right now you would want to do that?

You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.

We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Quote CashCooMoo:

"HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer."

_________________________________________________


But the big question is, would you want to be in it again from just what you have read about the situation.

Any time we start flexing muscles we better be prepared to enter into another war.

I know you did not care for war the last time.

The one thing i always think when suggesting war is that, would i be willing to be first to sign up in front of others to fight for this country, for what i believe is right.

Do you think in this case right now you would want to do that?

You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.

We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.

Sooner or later North Korea will be linked to a disaster directly or indirectly against the US. I just dont like the utopian attitude that everything is ok as long as we are nice to people who threaten us.

Some people live in this bubble world, and thats just part of growing up in certain parts of America where life is easy.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote CashCooMoo;

"Sooner or later North Korea will be linked to a disaster directly or indirectly against the US. I just dont like the utopian attitude that everything is ok as long as we are nice to people who threaten us.

Some people live in this bubble world, and thats just part of growing up in certain parts of America where life is easy."

_________________________________________________

Not what i asked.

So by what you have said i can assume you would want to go and fight again as an infantryman.

Bring some summer and winter clothing, because from what i have heard it probably makes Iraq and Vietnam seem mild, because of the extremes of weather at each end.

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CashCowMoo
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If I had to be called back then yes I would. Not many really understand what that means or the willingness to go if they have never done it. Would I prefer to sit on a beach? Of course.

I've been to Korea before, the summers are not as hot as Iraq, but it does get warm. The winters can be terribly cold. There is a monsoon season in summer as well.

I really doubt its going to be like 1950.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote CashCooMoo;

"I've been to Korea before, the summers are not as hot as Iraq, but it does get warm."

_________________________________________________

Isn't it a LOT more humid there than Iraq?

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