SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea boasted of being a "proud nuclear power" and threatened Monday to harm the U.S. if attacked as tensions mounted over a possible crackdown on exports of suspected missile parts from the North.
President Barack Obama said the U.S. is ready to cope with "any contingencies" involving North Korea and vowed not to "reward belligerence and provocation."
South Korea's YTN news network reported Sunday that a U.S. Navy destroyer tailing a North Korean ship suspected of carrying missiles and related parts was headed toward Myanmar in what could be the first test of new U.N. sanctions against the North over its recent nuclear test.
The sanctions — punishment for an underground nuclear test North Korea conducted May 25 — firm up an earlier arms embargo against North Korea and authorize ship searches in an attempt to thwart the regime's nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.
On Monday, North Korea's main Rodong Sinmun newspaper called it "nonsense" to say the country is a threat to the U.S., and instead claimed Washington was the one threatening the North. The paper also warned in a commentary that the country is prepared to strike back if attacked.
"As long as our country has become a proud nuclear power, the U.S. should take a correct look at whom it is dealing with," the editorial said. "It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula."
The Rodong Sinmun also denounced Obama's recent pledge to defend and protect South Korea — even promising to keep Seoul "under the U.S. nuclear umbrella" — as an attempt to attack the North with atomic bombs. Obama made the commitment in a joint statement after a summit last week with South Korea's President Lee Myung-bak.
North Korea calls its nuclear program a deterrent against the U.S., which Pyongyang routinely accuses of plotting to topple the communist regime. The U.S., which has 28,500 troops in South Korea, has said it has no such intentions, and has no nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula.
Obama said the U.S. is prepared for any North Korean provocation, including the regime's reported threat to test-launch a long-range missile toward Hawaii.
Japanese media have reported that the North Koreans appear to be preparing for a long-range test planned sometime around July 4, the Independence Day holiday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protections for Hawaii as a precaution.
"This administration — and our military — is fully prepared for any contingencies," Obama said Friday during an interview with CBS News' "The Early Show" to be broadcast Monday.
"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."
A North Korean cargo ship, the Kang Nam, is expected to travel to Myanmar via Singapore, YTN said, citing an unidentified intelligence source in South Korea.
Myanmar's military government, which faces an arms embargo from the United States and the European Union, reportedly has bought weapons from the North in the past.
Two U.S. officials said Thursday that the U.S. military had begun tracking the ship, which left a North Korean port on Wednesday.
One official said it was uncertain what the Kang Nam was carrying but that it had been involved in weapons proliferation before. Both spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence.
A senior U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday that a Navy ship, the USS John S. McCain, is relatively close to the North Korean vessel but had no orders to intercept it under the Security Council resolution and had not requested that authority. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The U.S. ship, a guided missile destroyer, is named after the grandfather and father of former U.S. presidential candidate Sen. John McCain. Both were admirals.
McCain said Sunday that the U.S. should board the Kang Nam even without North Korean permission if hard evidence shows it is carrying missiles or other cargo in violation of U.N. resolutions.
"I think we should board it. It's going to contribute to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction to rogue nations that pose a direct threat to the United States," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: NKorea threatens to harm US if attacked!!!
SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea boasted of being a "proud nuclear power" and threatened Monday to harm the U.S. if attacked as tensions mounted over a possible crackdown on exports of suspected missile parts from the North.
President Barack Obama said the U.S. is ready to cope with "any contingencies" involving North Korea and vowed not to "reward belligerence and provocation."
South Korea's YTN news network reported Sunday that a U.S. Navy destroyer tailing a North Korean ship suspected of carrying missiles and related parts was headed toward Myanmar in what could be the first test of new U.N. sanctions against the North over its recent nuclear test.
The sanctions — punishment for an underground nuclear test North Korea conducted May 25 — firm up an earlier arms embargo against North Korea and authorize ship searches in an attempt to thwart the regime's nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.
On Monday, North Korea's main Rodong Sinmun newspaper called it "nonsense" to say the country is a threat to the U.S., and instead claimed Washington was the one threatening the North. The paper also warned in a commentary that the country is prepared to strike back if attacked.
"As long as our country has become a proud nuclear power, the U.S. should take a correct look at whom it is dealing with," the editorial said. "It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula."
The Rodong Sinmun also denounced Obama's recent pledge to defend and protect South Korea — even promising to keep Seoul "under the U.S. nuclear umbrella" — as an attempt to attack the North with atomic bombs. Obama made the commitment in a joint statement after a summit last week with South Korea's President Lee Myung-bak.
North Korea calls its nuclear program a deterrent against the U.S., which Pyongyang routinely accuses of plotting to topple the communist regime. The U.S., which has 28,500 troops in South Korea, has said it has no such intentions, and has no nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula.
Obama said the U.S. is prepared for any North Korean provocation, including the regime's reported threat to test-launch a long-range missile toward Hawaii.
Japanese media have reported that the North Koreans appear to be preparing for a long-range test planned sometime around July 4, the Independence Day holiday. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protections for Hawaii as a precaution.
"This administration — and our military — is fully prepared for any contingencies," Obama said Friday during an interview with CBS News' "The Early Show" to be broadcast Monday.
"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."
A North Korean cargo ship, the Kang Nam, is expected to travel to Myanmar via Singapore, YTN said, citing an unidentified intelligence source in South Korea.
Myanmar's military government, which faces an arms embargo from the United States and the European Union, reportedly has bought weapons from the North in the past.
Two U.S. officials said Thursday that the U.S. military had begun tracking the ship, which left a North Korean port on Wednesday.
One official said it was uncertain what the Kang Nam was carrying but that it had been involved in weapons proliferation before. Both spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss intelligence.
A senior U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday that a Navy ship, the USS John S. McCain, is relatively close to the North Korean vessel but had no orders to intercept it under the Security Council resolution and had not requested that authority. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The U.S. ship, a guided missile destroyer, is named after the grandfather and father of former U.S. presidential candidate Sen. John McCain. Both were admirals.
McCain said Sunday that the U.S. should board the Kang Nam even without North Korean permission if hard evidence shows it is carrying missiles or other cargo in violation of U.N. resolutions.
"I think we should board it. It's going to contribute to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction to rogue nations that pose a direct threat to the United States," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."
The UN is so pathetic. They are weak, corrupt, and a waste of time.
Posted by glassman on :
the UN is weak because you and i don't want the UN running OUR lives.
we can't use it to run others lives if we don't submit, and i do not want to submit, do you?
all political organisations are corrupt, and "conserviative theory" calls for a small ( you can substitute weak for small) government.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the UN is weak because you and i don't want the UN running OUR lives.
we can't use it to run others lives if we don't submit, and i do not want to submit, do you?
all political organisations are corrupt, and "conserviative theory" calls for a small ( you can substitute weak for small) government.
Submitting to the UN? HELL NO. It isnt for the people it should be for governments in a minimal sense. The UN wants a GLOBAL gun ban, dont think that will work too well in the states if you ask me.
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
The UN was set up by and for the New World Order organization and leaders...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Global citizenship, global currency, and global law.
disgusting.
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
North Korea accuses the U.S. of provoking another war and warns it will wipe America off the map
SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea accused Washington of seeking to "provoke a second Korean War" as the regime prepared to hold maritime military exercises off the eastern coast.
U.S. and regional authorities were watching closely for signs that North Korea might fire short- or mid-range missiles during the June 25 to July 10 timeframe cited in a no-sail ban for military drills sent to Japan's Coast Guard.
North Korea had warned previously it would fire a long-range missile as a response to U.N. Security Council condemnation of an April rocket launch seen as a cover for its ballistic missile technology.
An underground nuclear test last month drew more Security Council action: a resolution seeking to clamp down on North Korea's trading of banned arms and weapons-related material by requiring U.N. member states to request inspections of ships carrying suspected cargo.
In a first test of the new resolution, a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons was sailing off China's coast with a U.S. destroyer close behind.
The Kang Nam, which left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago, is believed bound for Myanmar, South Korean and U.S. officials said.
A senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was unable to discuss intelligence on the vessel, said Wednesday that the ship had already cleared the Taiwan Strait.
He said he didn't know how much range the Kang Nam has — that is, whether or when it may need to stop in some port to refuel — but that the Kang Nam has in the past stopped in Hong Kong's port.
North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war, and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to start another Korean War.
"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," a dispatch from the official Korean Central News Agency said.
The warning came on the eve of the 59th anniversary of the outbreak of the Korean War. The brutal fighting ended after three years in a truce in 1953, not a peace treaty, leaving the peninsula divided and in a state of war. The U.S. has 28,500 troops in South Korea to protect against an outbreak of hostilities.
On Wednesday, the top U.S. commander in South Korea, Gen. Walter Sharp, praised soldiers from U.S.-led U.N. forces who died fighting the "tyranny" of communist North Korea decades ago.
"A North Korean victory in the Korean War would have brought the nightmare of tyranny to this great land, thrusting the citizens of the Republic of Korea into a darkness that their northern counterparts have yet to emerge from," he said a commemoration ceremony Wednesday, referring to South Korea by its official name, the Republic of Korea.
Reports about possible missile launches from the North highlighted the state of tension on the Korean peninsula.
A senior South Korean government official said the no-sail ban is believed connected to North Korean plans to fire short- or mid-range missiles. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing department policy.
Yonhap reported that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometers) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometers) during the no-sail period.
U.S. defense and counterproliferation officials in Washington said they also expected the North to launch short- to medium-range missiles. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.
South Korea will expedite the introduction of high-tech unmanned aerial surveillance systems and "bunker-buster" bombs in response to North Korea's provocations, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing lawmakers.
Meanwhile, a flurry of diplomatic efforts were under way to try getting North Korea to return to disarmament talks.
Russia's top nuclear envoy, Alexei Borodavkin, said after meeting with his South Korean counterpart that Moscow is open to other formats for discussion since Pyongyang has pulled out of formal six-nation negotiations.
In Beijing, top U.S. and Chinese defense officials also discussed North Korea. U.S. Defense Undersecretary Michele Flournoy was heading next to Tokyo and Seoul for talks.
South Korea has proposed high-level "consultations" to discuss North Korea with the U.S., Russia, China and Japan.
___
Associated Press writers Jae-soon Chang in Seoul, and Pauline Jelinek, Pamela Hess and Lolita Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
More than 100,000 North Koreans gathered to protest against the U.S. and are rallying to Nuke us in retaliation...Uh Oh!!!
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Global citizenship, global currency, and global law.
disgusting.
Oh you mean American Imperialism... disgusting indeed...
now back to the topic of this thread... NK is just blowing smoke as usual to get what they want which is the lifting of embargoes and such... As much as they are crazy they are not stupid and know attacking us with nuclear weapons is a losing situation... so it's just a facade to get what they want like they did with all our presidents since Kim Jong became leader...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
American imperialism? Now you are talking like Hugo, Kim Jong Il, and other dictators like Castro. You have Che glorified, and you just think nothing will ever happen with North Korea.
Well just what if they DID hit Hawaii with something? Would you still sit down to pee or would you find a pair and start flexing to put someone who is out of line back in line? Nations arent strong by weakness, and Kim Jong ill has nukes, chemo and bio weapons, and who knows what else. Now he is starting to get out of control, and people are passive as usual.
If we would have stopped this mess in the 90s we wouldnt be worrying about this crap. Clinton had your mentality and let them do their "business as usual" and not only that we hooked them up with aid if they promised to be good boys with nukes. Now look. That is what you get.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: American imperialism? Now you are talking like Hugo, Kim Jong Il, and other dictators like Castro. You have Che glorified, and you just think nothing will ever happen with North Korea.
Do you know what imperialism is? Here is a definition by Oxford Dictionary from 2007:
[Imperialism:] The belief in the desirability of the acquisition of colonies and dependencies, or the extension of a country's influence through trade, diplomacy, etc.
Do you think dictators are the only ones who call America a Imperialist nation Mooman? Because there not. Wherever we throw our weight we are called that and for good reason. We don't know how to mind our own business sometimes. Iraq is a perfect example as is the recent Iran election problem.
As for Che, I don't glorify him but I do admire some of his thoughts. I just didn't like his actions on how he put those thoughts into practice.
quote:Well just what if they DID hit Hawaii with something? Would you still sit down to pee or would you find a pair and start flexing to put someone who is out of line back in line? Nations arent strong by weakness, and Kim Jong ill has nukes, chemo and bio weapons, and who knows what else. Now he is starting to get out of control, and people are passive as usual.
If we would have stopped this mess in the 90s we wouldnt be worrying about this crap. Clinton had your mentality and let them do their "business as usual" and not only that we hooked them up with aid if they promised to be good boys with nukes. Now look. That is what you get.
Know your history because since the 1948 or the end or stalemate of the Korean War, Kim Jong and his father have been blowing smoke to get what they want. That is pretty much a fact. So stop blaming Clinton because this has been going on for decades with NK and if memory serves me right about 6 Republican Presidents up to the present time have been in office and have done nothing about NK.
So other then South Korea don't you think NK would of attacked another nation outside of Korea by now in all those decades if they were serious? They afterall have the 4th largest standing army in the world.
Nukes? That is nothing new. They have had them for a long time. Other countries having Nukes as well is what keeps NK in check not to use theirs.This Nuke thing they had done before if you forgot already during the Bush years as well.The threat of Nukes etc.
Perhaps they do not attack other countries because Russia and China will no longer back them up militarily anymore? Like I said Kim Jung/NK are crazy but not stupid. They do not have the economic power to go to war that is a fact. They are blowing smoke as usual as well as you are as always.
Stop Mooing.
Posted by glassman on :
Nukes? That is nothing new. They have had them for a long time. Other countries having Nukes as well is what keeps NK in check not to use theirs.This Nuke thing they had done before if you forgot already during the Bush years as well.The threat of Nukes etc.
they set off an underground device.
that's not a weapon. there is absolutley no evidence they have any form of wepaonised nuclear device.
setting off an underground nuclear device is worlds away from being able to deliver one even by train.
Posted by glassman on :
Redeployment of US nuclear weapons in S. Korea?
Some conservatives argue the government should ask the U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) to re-deploy its tactical nuclear weapons to deter nuclear-armed North Korea.
Tactical nuclear weapons (TNWs) typically refer to short-range weapons, including land-based missiles with a range of up to 500 kilometers and air- and sea-launched weapons with a range of around 600 kilometers.
The USFK removed its TNWs in 1991. Prompted by mounting concerns about the security of nuclear weapons in the former Soviet Union, then U.S. President George Bush announced in September 1991 that the United States would eliminate its entire worldwide inventory of ground-launched TNWs and would remove all nuclear weapons from surface ships and attack submarines.
Jeon Seong-hoon at the Korea Institute for National Unification said, ``As North Korea's nuclear capability increases, the effectiveness of the U.S. nuclear umbrella could decrease. In that context, I believe, the redeployment of USFK's tactical nuclear weapons, at least on a temporary basis, could be the best option.''
A military official concurred. The official, who requested to remain anonymous, said the USFK should deploy tactical nuclear weapons again as long as it is not violating the 1991 Washington-Moscow arms control agreement.
``Redeployment of air-launched tactical nuclear weapons do not violate the 1991 agreement,'' the official said. ``If there were 10 tactical nuclear weapons in the South, North Korea's nuclear threat could be easily neutralized.''
we do not recognise N Korea as a nuclear power.
they do not have nuclear weapons.
the 2006 device they set off was so weak that there have been conventional US explosions that matched it.
it is even possible that N Korea faked the nuclear explosion by packing a non-critical mass of non-weapons grade plutonium within a very large conventional device.
in other words? this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.
should we refuse to take the situation seriously? no, that would be worse than taking it too seriously. but only a little worse.
the 2009 device was only a little stronger than the 2006 device:
The senior U.S. military official said the seismic data indicated a "relatively small" bomb of around 1.5 kilotons, larger than North Korea's first underground nuclear test, in 2006, which exploded with a force of less than one kiloton. The first nuclear device tested by the U.S., in July 1945, amounted to 20 kilotons Posted by glassman on :
North Korea has been a major supplier of missile technologies to Iran, Syria and Pakistan, and has been accused of selling nuclear technology to Syria and cooperating in developing Iran's ballistic missile program, according to U.S. officials. North Korea is believed to have expanded its weapons program slowly and steadily over the years, with assistance from the Soviet Union, Pakistan's top nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan, and Japanese and European electronics firms that knowingly or unwittingly sold necessary equipment to Pyongyang.
U.S. officials say North Korea now has six to 12 nuclear devices, and Pyongyang says it will begin reprocessing plutonium to produce more, after freezing such activities last year as part of an initial disarmament agreement with the U.S.
North Korea is seen as still needing to take some crucial steps to be able to use its nuclear devices as strategic weapons. The multistage, long-range missile tested in April, which landed in the Pacific Ocean, represented an advance, but the North Korean missiles are seen as erratic and not yet capable of hitting North America. The U.S. military says it believes North Korea hasn't mastered the technology to miniaturize a nuclear bomb to place it on a long-range missile. Officials also say the U.S. has little knowledge on how far the regime, sealed off from outsiders, has progressed to that goal.
South Korea and China are N Korea's largest AID providers. this really is their problem.
N Korea is only able to pursue this weaponisation of their devices BECAUSE of the AID they get from China and S Korea.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: in other words? this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.
ahh so you agree with me that they are blowing smoke... to ruffle everyones' feathers to get what they want...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: South Korea and China are N Korea's largest AID providers. this really is their problem.
N Korea is only able to pursue this weaponisation of their devices BECAUSE of the AID they get from China and S Korea.
I really don't believe South Korea aids them in that regards...
Posted by rounder1 on :
Since I have come to this board I have found myself in agreement with "Glassman" more often than not.....However, on this issue I think that we are going to part company.
N. Korea is a threat....if not today then they will be tomorrow.....we can argue about "when" tomorrow is but concede this:
There leader sees military might as a means to a financial end.....we should all recognize that there is no other motivation to equal it (excepting religion; in some sects). N. Korea will continue down this path until their bluff ceases to be a bluff. Act now!!! while it is still a bluff.
I was not alive for any of it; but, from what I have read......this could be the "Cuban Missile Crisis" for my generation......"No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).
You should never appease or coddle an agressor....and before anyone says that "the U.S. has been an agressor"; save your fingers.....cause I think that is horse ****! There have been "causes" that I agree with and "causes" that I did not; but, through out the history of this country.......I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Since I have come to this board I have found myself in agreement with "Glassman" more often than not.....However, on this issue I think that we are going to part company.
You forgot me ... on this issue at least...
quote:I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......
Some of us would beg to differ with you on the Iraq issue.
quote: If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."
It is not our job nor our business to spank every azzhole in this world...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Rounder1:
......."I feel that choices of military action were made correctly based on the information of the time......If a nutjob wants to "act" like a bad ass; ......I say "treat him like he is right."
_________________________________________________
Yeah, lets get um all.
You be first in, I will talk to Glassman and Bond and a few others to see if they will follow.
I'll stay home and watch on my bigscreen and eat a little popcorn and see how it turns out.
Posted by jordanreed on :
peace at all costs...
war is death...
pacify the aggressor with reasonable, sane methods..
dont stick your nose up someone elses azz..
we are not the world police..
Posted by glassman on :
No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).
OK, maybe you missed the part of my "article" where i said that the nuke devices they have set off, (iffffff they were even nukes) were not weaponised, or that they do not likely have a "deliverable" nuke..
Kim Jong Ill would have to nuke the South using a train to deliver what they do have.
there is a diplomatic theory (as opposed to a miltiary theory) that becoming someones mortal enemy elevates you to their status and vice versa.
it's why, for instance, Bush would not have face to face talks with Iran...
he did not want to elevate them to the status of our level for (what that's worth).
that's what Kim Jong wants
Peace at all costs is how people become slaves JR,
while i recognise the truly immense power of Peaceful means to winning wars, you have no choice but o be prepared to die for something to own it.
The S Koreans are our true friends. I've known quite a few and still count some as personal friends. We should not fail them. What do they think we should do?
there are many S Koreans with families in the north.
in either Iran or N Korea? say we cut loose a couple hundred conventional (non-nuke) tomahawks and a couple hundred thousand tons of JDAMS to take out their whole economic infrastructure to stop them from becoming nukular ?
we'd kill alot people like the ones that we admire for standing up against Amadinejad in Iran.
it's not easy doing it correctly,
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: No" I do not think they will be able to hit the U.S. anytime soon; but, for all any of us know........they could hit S. Korea tomorrow and kill 29,000 Americans (of the finest type).
OK, maybe you missed the part of my "article" where i said that the nuke devices they have set off, (iffffff they were even nukes) were not weaponised, or that they do not likely have a "deliverable" nuke..
Kim Jong Ill would have to nuke the South using a train to deliver what they do have.
there is a diplomatic theory (as opposed to a miltiary theory) that becoming someones mortal enemy elevates you to their status and vice versa.
it's why, for instance, Bush would not have face to face talks with Iran...
he did not want to elevate them to the status of our level for (what that's worth).
that's what Kim Jong wants
Peace at all costs is how people become slaves JR,
while i recognise the truly immense power of Peaceful means to winning wars, you have no choice but o be prepared to die for something to own it.
The S Koreans are our true friends. I've known quite a few and still count some as personal friends. We should not fail them. What do they think we should do?
there are many S Koreans with families in the north.
in either Iran or N Korea? say we cut loose a couple hundred conventional (non-nuke) tomahawks and a couple hundred thousand tons of JDAMS to take out their whole economic infrastructure to stop them from becoming nukular ?
we'd kill alot people like the ones that we admire for standing up against Amadinejad in Iran.
it's not easy doing it correctly,
From what I understand....North Korea has Nuclear weapons bought from other countries.....it doesn't matter if they have the technology to build one by themselfs.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: The S Koreans are our true friends.
I don't know about that. South Koreans have protested our military being there, our beef imports, our free trade policies etc.. etc... Imo no country is a friend of another country... we all need each other for one reason or another and call each other "friends" but were not...
I think the U.S. presence in S Korea is a necessary evil to them so they put up with us... Not saying were evil but you know what I mean... if they didn't need us because of the North Korean threat I think South Korea's attitude would be different towards us and we would have diplomacy problems with them... of course we would still be their "friend" but they would make issues difficult on us like trade, military etc..
Posted by glassman on :
From what I understand....North Korea has Nuclear weapons bought from other countries.....it doesn't matter if they have the technology to build one by themselfs.
got any references on that?
they bought knowledge from AQ Kahn (pakistan) but i've never heard anywhere that they have nuke weapons.
only that they have set off a pair of devices underground that are PROBABLY nuke devices. we know they are very inefficient and are most likely cumbersome devices.
the first one was definitley a failure if it was even a real nuke.
it is possible to fake a nuke test, their test could have been a fake.
we officially removed all of our tactical nukes from the region becuase we do not recognise that thy have any nuke wepaons.
Posted by jordanreed on :
I guess I should of said.peace at all costs until it is no longer feasable
Posted by jordanreed on :
...and I dont think slavery is condusive to much peace..
Posted by rounder1 on :
All you have made very good points concernin my post.......I just feel like a fight with N. Korea is in the future, and I would rather it be sooner than later.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
My question is - who will support us in ww3? it may off started but as it continues??
And, who are the players?
I say china is winning - economically - and, our foolish leaders - are spend until there is no USA- you cant spend a country to progress-
USSR will side with anyone against us -
The Muslims will fight til the end at their fullest while USA deliberates whether ok to waterboard while they spew hate at us and continue beheading and war ?
The muslims are recruting the prison population and hence inroads to black america to side with ISlam -
So, who will be on our side? The west europeans are unstable - countries rocked by their muslim population - demanding foot baths but no christian crosses as in USA -
I finally found who may support us - eastern europe and australia and possibly canada - maybe japan -
Posted by rounder1 on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: My question is - who will support us in ww3? it may off started but as it continues??
And, who are the players?
I say china is winning - economically - and, our foolish leaders - are spend until there is no USA- you cant spend a country to progress-
USSR will side with anyone against us -
The Muslims will fight til the end at their fullest while USA deliberates whether ok to waterboard while they spew hate at us and continue beheading and war ?
The muslims are recruting the prison population and hence inroads to black america to side with ISlam -
So, who will be on our side? The west europeans are unstable - countries rocked by their muslim population - demanding foot baths but no christian crosses as in USA -
I finally found who may support us - eastern europe and australia and possibly canada - maybe japan -
you have raised a valid point; and that is part of the reason why I "think" that I am in favor of confronting certain nations "today".....so that they do get the opportunity to accumumate allies.
The world is much different today....even moreso than when I was a kid (which was not that long ago).
I think that everyone commenting is a "patriot"....we just disagree with what "way" is in the best interest of our country.
Perhaps we should look at the question as if we "hated America." If we were America's enemy......what course would be playing into our hands?
I do not usually like to quote famous people (whether they were brilliant or not).....I think that is better to "smith" your own words. However I can not resist.....
With regards to your curiosity about WW3......Einstein had this to say (loose paraphrase; but, giving credit any way)
"I have no idea what weapons will be used in WW3; but, I am pretty sure that WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
Most persons hold Einstein as genius.....not sure that I do; but, I do love that quote.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer.
Air Force tests missile in launch from Calif coast
Associated Press - June 29, 2009 8:24 AM ET
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - The Air Force has successfully launched an unarmed Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missile from the California coast to an area in the Pacific Ocean some 4,200 miles away.
Lt. Raymond Geoffroy says the ICBM was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base at 3:01 a.m. Monday and carried three unarmed re-entry vehicles to their targets near the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.
The missile, configured with a National Nuclear Security Administration Test Assembly, was launched under the direction of the 576th Flight Test Squadron.
The Air Force says the launch was an operational test to check the weapon system's reliability and accuracy, and the data will be used by United States Strategic Command planners and Department of Energy laboratories.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote CashCooMoo:
"HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer."
_________________________________________________
But the big question is, would you want to be in it again from just what you have read about the situation.
Any time we start flexing muscles we better be prepared to enter into another war.
I know you did not care for war the last time.
The one thing i always think when suggesting war is that, would i be willing to be first to sign up in front of others to fight for this country, for what i believe is right.
Do you think in this case right now you would want to do that?
You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.
We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Quote CashCooMoo:
"HELL YES. This is what I am talking about ....we need to start flexing OUR muscle. North Korea doesnt want any Minutemen 3 ICBMs flying their direction. They said they do these a couple times a year and it takes a while to get them ready, so this was already planned. However, we should shoot a few more this summer."
_________________________________________________
But the big question is, would you want to be in it again from just what you have read about the situation.
Any time we start flexing muscles we better be prepared to enter into another war.
I know you did not care for war the last time.
The one thing i always think when suggesting war is that, would i be willing to be first to sign up in front of others to fight for this country, for what i believe is right.
Do you think in this case right now you would want to do that?
You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.
We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.
Sooner or later North Korea will be linked to a disaster directly or indirectly against the US. I just dont like the utopian attitude that everything is ok as long as we are nice to people who threaten us.
Some people live in this bubble world, and thats just part of growing up in certain parts of America where life is easy.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote CashCooMoo;
"Sooner or later North Korea will be linked to a disaster directly or indirectly against the US. I just dont like the utopian attitude that everything is ok as long as we are nice to people who threaten us.
Some people live in this bubble world, and thats just part of growing up in certain parts of America where life is easy."
_________________________________________________
Not what i asked.
So by what you have said i can assume you would want to go and fight again as an infantryman.
Bring some summer and winter clothing, because from what i have heard it probably makes Iraq and Vietnam seem mild, because of the extremes of weather at each end.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
If I had to be called back then yes I would. Not many really understand what that means or the willingness to go if they have never done it. Would I prefer to sit on a beach? Of course.
I've been to Korea before, the summers are not as hot as Iraq, but it does get warm. The winters can be terribly cold. There is a monsoon season in summer as well.
I really doubt its going to be like 1950.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote CashCooMoo;
"I've been to Korea before, the summers are not as hot as Iraq, but it does get warm."
_________________________________________________
Isn't it a LOT more humid there than Iraq?
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.
We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.
Exactly. Mooman seems to forget there are consequences for acting irrationally and prematurely. He is always willing to go for the gun first and think later. Iraq was a mistake and he knows it and it cost alot of american lives that didn't need to be there in the first place. So could it be the same if we go gungho on NK as well.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
THE URGENT NEED TO RECONSIDER PREVAILING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT RUSSIA AND CHINA (1)In the Political arena:
The failure of US Policymakers to comprehend the veiled aggressiveness and hostility towards the United States inherent in Sino-Russian strategy and the belief that the political and economic reforms in Russia and the partial introduction of capitalism in China have foreshadowed these countries' development into real democracies, have eroded the effectiveness of US policies in the foreign affairs, defence, intelligence and counter-intelligence fields. US Policymakers have recklessly accepted the premise the Russia and China are no longer their enemies, but are rather potential allies and partners fully deserving of US support. Only countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea - which (ironically, in this context) work secretly with Russia and China - are still considered potential adversaries.
A particularly alarming indication of the extent to which US foreign policy has become degraded is Washington's willingness to consider the admission of Russia and other former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO - an alliance which provided the United States and its allies with effective protection from these countries for many years. This policy jeopardizes the security of the United States, gravely threatens the security of Western Europe, and undermines the United States' role as the leader of the developed world.
US Policymakers should urgently re-examine their assumptions about the 'progress' of Russia and China 'towards democracy'. They should take account of Sino-Russian strategy and should recognize that the long-term strategic, political and economic threat comes from a Sino-Russian axis and associated participants like North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Syria. The Russian and Chinese leaders are still committed to their objective of world domination and believe that, disguised as 'democrats', in accordance with Leninist teaching, they will be able to achieve it.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
You know if we flex our muscles and end up going to war again, we better send a lot of body bags.
We have to be real careful when we flex our muscles a lot, they can get over strained.
Exactly. Mooman seems to forget there are consequences for acting irrationally and prematurely. He is always willing to go for the gun first and think later. Iraq was a mistake and he knows it and it cost alot of american lives that didn't need to be there in the first place. So could it be the same if we go gungho on NK as well.
Oh geez Mach, NK is much more dangerous than Iraq. Iraq wasnt detonating nukes, shooting missles, threatening nuclear annihilation, on and on and on.
None of you get what im saying. With you its either or. Either we become pacifists, or nothing at all. I do know this, if I ruled a country, and YOU ruled a country I would pick on you all day long and threaten you....because you wouldnt do a damn thing about it. Then, when you thought my threats were another falsehood id strike you when you would least expect it.
Thats how the globe operates. Always has, always will. Hippie dream worlds of peace will never happen as good as that sounds. Its just the way it is. Dont believe me? Go to Congo, Somalia, the Korean DMZ, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Colombia, Honduras, Cuba, Angola, Burma, the west bank and Palestine, Chechnya, Uganda, Mexican border towns on the other side of Texas and Arizona, and a whole list not yet covered.
We arent even talking about the conflicts that will erupt in the future. You think Obama will wave his magic wand and cure all? It's a cut throat world out there, and even in some places within our own nation such as urban ghettos and inner city projects.
Well you are right in me believing Iraq was a mistake. Then again, I dont feel as bad as you do about it. There was some sick shi* going on over there under Saddam....some really sick shi*. I did realize how much we need to focus on American oil and not oil from that way.
There is ANOTHER leftist either or situation. They want clean energy now, but dont want oil at all. You have to have oil for another generation. This transfer to solar and wind takes a long time and a lot of money. While we do that lets open up land for production and get off the Saudi crack. The Venezuelan crack, and others.
Posted by jordanreed on :
geez, cow...stop living in the past...there are no hippies anymore!
you seem to think you're the only one who has been in a war...
many of us, here, have fought in nam...lets not name names...it was not a good situation..anyway you look at it!we flexed our muscle there and in Iraq!..wow, we really showed them, huh?...we want to avoid war again..and so does N.K. its the last thing they want. and make no mistake..obama is not sitting idly by twiddling his thumbs!..at this point, diplomacy is the answer (of course)...we dont need to "flex our muscle"..as you advocate. Thats insane. speaking of insane,,why not post that insane pic of you caressing your gun?..I need a good laugh...
Posted by thinkmoney on :
We may want to avoid war and Obama is prolly working behind the scenes. However, I am not as sure that NK wants to avoid war.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: geez, cow...stop living in the past...there are no hippies anymore!
you seem to think you're the only one who has been in a war...
many of us, here, have fought in nam...lets not name names...it was not a good situation..anyway you look at it!we flexed our muscle there and in Iraq!..wow, we really showed them, huh?...we want to avoid war again..and so does N.K. its the last thing they want. and make no mistake..obama is not sitting idly by twiddling his thumbs!..at this point, diplomacy is the answer (of course)...we dont need to "flex our muscle"..as you advocate. Thats insane. speaking of insane,,why not post that insane pic of you caressing your gun?..I need a good laugh...
Time will tell who was right and who wasnt. By the way, speaking of Obama, has anyone seen Tony Rezko around lately? lmao
I know im not the only one thats been bent over by Uncle Sam, and I have no idea what picture you are talking about "caressing" my weapon. I did find a picture with some Allstocks OT forum members!
it might work with you, too!..even tho you love war and want to flex your muscle(lol), I bet obama could talk, even you, down.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: it might work with you, too!..even tho you love war and want to flex your muscle(lol), I bet obama could talk, even you, down.
I dont love war, where do you come up with this stuff. If we were all animals, natural selection would have you two very early on.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Oh geez Mach, NK is much more dangerous than Iraq. Iraq wasnt detonating nukes, shooting missles, threatening nuclear annihilation, on and on and on.
Geez, isn't that what Bush said about Iraq pretty much? WMD's? But anyways you haven't read or listened to Glass about NK. This is no proof NK has such weapons and were not going to attack hastingly like we did Iraq without such proof.
quote:I do know this, if I ruled a country, and YOU ruled a country I would pick on you all day long and threaten you....because you wouldnt do a damn thing about it. Then, when you thought my threats were another falsehood id strike you when you would least expect it.
Scary thought you ruling a country But that is where you would lose because that is no strategy at all and is how you would lose. Military strategy obviously is not your forte. NK's army may be the 4th largest standing army in the world but they know they cannot take us on. Our military is much much better then in the 1950's and Kim Jong knows it. All we would have to do is cut off NK's food and other supplies and his army would collapse from starvation etc. like the rest of the country already is.
quote:Go to Congo, Somalia, the Korean DMZ, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Colombia, Honduras, Cuba, Angola, Burma, the west bank and Palestine, Chechnya, Uganda, Mexican border towns on the other side of Texas and Arizona, and a whole list not yet covered.
Most of those countries you named are revolutions and such and not countries attacking other countries.
Afghanistan - Taliban and currrent Afghanis in power fighting each other Honduras - right and left fighting each other Colombia - Their gov't is fighting FARC and other rebel groups Mexican border towns - Gov't vs Drug Traffickers etc. etc.
quote:You think Obama will wave his magic wand and cure all?
Do you think military action cures all?
quote:Well you are right in me believing Iraq was a mistake. Then again, I dont feel as bad as you do about it.
You should. I am sure you lost buddies who didn't deserve to die or be there to begin with because of Bush.
quote:There was some sick shi* going on over there under Saddam....some really sick shi*.
There is s*ck sh*t all over the world it still isn't our job to get involved in those places. If anything we should of been involved in places like Rwanda, Darfur, African conflicts more so then Iraq if we really cared about "s*ck sh*t".
quote: I did realize how much we need to focus on American oil and not oil from that way.
I agree with you if done right and not hazardly.
quote:There is ANOTHER leftist either or situation. They want clean energy now, but dont want oil at all.
Don't you think that is a good idea?No Oil so we would never ever have to rely on the Middle East ever again should oil become a shortage on our lands in the future? We stop relying on Oil and you will see the Middle East lose it's riches and power they hold over the rest of the world as well as Russia and their oil.
quote:You have to have oil for another generation.
Who says?
quote:This transfer to solar and wind takes a long time and a lot of money. While we do that lets open up land for production and get off the Saudi crack. The Venezuelan crack, and others.
Agreed for once.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I dont love war, where do you come up with this stuff. If we were all animals, natural selection would have you two very early on.
The fact that your solution to everything is always military first. As for natural selection, it doesn't necessarily mean brawn. The one with the better brain who can outwit his opponent would have my vote in who wins something much like a game of chess.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote CashCooMoo:
"I dont love war, where do you come up with this stuff. If we were all animals, natural selection would have you two very early on."
_________________________________________________
You didn't like it at all from what i remember, of course i am not sure how many would.
In fact i think you were ticked that they were sending your unit back, if i remember correctly.
That's why i am surprised you suggest going to war so easily.
I still think we will be on the ground in North Korea if we flex very much.
Not sure where we get more troops or the money.
Maybe that's the real plan by getting us involved in wars all over the world.
Haven't seen one yet that we don't end up on the ground (infantry) one way or the other.
-
Posted by raybond on :
A quote from one of America's greatest warriors
General William T. Sherman
War is Hell. This quote originates from his address to the graduating class of the Michigan Military Academy (19 June 1879); but slightly varying accounts of this speech have been published: I’ve been where you are now and I know just how you feel. It’s entirely natural that there should beat in the breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the skill you have acquired here. Suppress it! You don’t know the horrible aspects of war. I’ve been through two wars and I know. I’ve seen cities and homes in ashes. I’ve seen thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the skies. I tell you, war is Hell! As quoted from accounts by Dr. Charles O. Brown in the Battle Creek Enquirer and News (18 November 1933)
Posted by raybond on :
quote from cashcow
I dont love war, where do you come up with this stuff. If we were all animals, natural selection would have you two very early on. -------------------------------------------------
How dare you compare us to animals and asume that we are afraid to fight and protect ourselves. History has shown time and time again that the best soldiers come frome people that seek peace as the first option don't sound off from the kool-aide that the right has gave you to drink.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
lmao
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Four more missles fired. Keep being passive im sure one day North Korea will "accept the olive branch" lmao
North Korea ups tension with short-range missiles 02 Jul 2009 14:57:59 GMT Source: Reuters (For complete coverage click [ID:nSP88208]
* North Korea test fires four short-range missiles
* Japan PM says "provocative act" not helpful
* Pentagon says North Korea move "not unexpected"
* U.S. cracks down on North Korea's arms trade
* China's North Korea envoy to visit key partners
By Jack Kim and Miyoung Kim
SEOUL, July 2 (Reuters) - North Korea test-fired four short-range missiles on Thursday, further stoking tension in the region that was already high due to Pyongyang's nuclear test and threats to boost its nuclear arsenal in response to UN sanctions.
The North, which often fires short-range missiles as part of military drills and usually times the launches for periods of diplomatic friction, was hit with UN sanctions following its May 25 nuclear test.
The salvo began with two surface-to-ship missiles fired off North Korea's east coast between 5:20 p.m and 6 p.m. (0820-0900 GMT) that flew about 100 km (60 miles) and splashed into the sea, a South Korean defence official said.
A third short-range missile was fired around two hours later, the defence ministry said, and South Korea's Yonhap news agency, citing officials in Seoul, later said a fourth had been fired.
North Korea last month warned shipping to keep away from a maritime zone extending 110 km off its east coast between June 25 and July 10, saying it was conducting a military drill.
"This activity is not unexpected," said U.S. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman.
"North Korea continues to develop and pursue missile technologies and the United States continues to remain concerned about not only their missile activities but their proliferation activities and their nuclear programme."
A South Korean daily said that the secretive North may also test fire mid-range missiles, viewed by the South, the United States and others as a more serious act, in a matter of days.
Japan, a party to currently suspended six-nation talks aimed at coaxing the isolated North to give up its nuclear programme in return for aid and greater diplomatic recognition, was quick to condemn Pyongyang's latest action.
"We have often warned that such a provocative act is not beneficial for North Korea's national interest," Kyodo News Agency quoted Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso as telling reporters.
The short-range missile launches came after regional markets had closed for the day, but East Asian investors have grown used to North Korea's sabre-rattling and tend not to be fazed.
Analysts say they would likely panic only if there was military conflict on a peninsula, where 2 million troops face each other across one of the world's most heavily armed borders.
TIGHTENING SANCTIONS
Washington said this week it had tightened its crackdown on firms linked to the North's lucrative proliferation of missiles, a major source of cash for the destitute state, and has sent the U.S. point man for sanctions to Asia for discussions. [ID:nN30456056]
Enforcement of the sanctions, aimed at halting its trade in arms, would depend heavily on China, the North's biggest benefactor and trade partner, analysts said.
China said on Thursday it was sending its envoy to the six-party talks to South Korea, Japan, Russia and the United States. North Korea, the sixth party, was not on the itinerary.
"China has consistently advocated dialogue and consultation, and achieving denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula through the six-party talks process," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told a news briefing.
Earlier the JoongAng Ilbo daily quoted an intelligence source as saying the North was likely to fire medium or short range missiles from its east coast in early July that could include Scuds with a range of about 340 km (210 miles) or Rodong missiles with a range of up to 1,000 km (620 miles).
North Korea fired a barrage of short-range missiles following its May nuclear test, which experts said put the state closer to having a working nuclear bomb.
It launched a rocket in April in what was widely seen as a disguised long-range missile test that violated U.N. resolutions banning it from ballistic missile launches.
Philip Goldberg, the U.S. envoy who coordinates sanctions against the North, has been in China to enlist Beijing's help in getting tough with North Korea and said he had had "good discussions" with his Chinese counterparts.
"We want all the various aspects of the resolution to work", he told reporters after a day of meetings, adding that this included financial sanctions.
He will be in Malaysia on Sunday before heading back to Washington on Monday.
It was not immediately clear why he was visiting Malaysia, although earlier this week Japanese media reported police in Japan had arrested three people on suspicion of attempting to export equipment that could be used in weapons production to Myanmar via Malaysia and suspected a link to North Korea.
South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said he was seeking a meeting of the foreign ministers of the six countries, including the North, on the sidelines of a regional security forum on July 23 in Thailand.
Officials said the North's military grandstanding is likely related to moves by its leadership to begin readying leader Kim Jong-il's youngest son as a future heir by consolidating the 67-year-old leader's power base. (Additional reporting by Chris Buckley and Emma Graham-Harrison in Beijing, Kim Yeon-hee and Jon Herskovitz in Seoul, Yoko Kubota in Tokyo and Andrew Gray in Washington; Editing by Jeremy Laurence and Alex Richardson)
Posted by glassman on :
here's how to shut them down completely:
Washington said this week it had tightened its crackdown on firms linked to the North's lucrative proliferation of missiles, a major source of cash for the destitute state, and has sent the U.S. point man for sanctions to Asia for discussions
i think we all know they aren't making most of the components. shut off their supply, and then block their sales of product
Posted by NaturalResources on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: here's how to shut them down completely:
Washington said this week it had tightened its crackdown on firms linked to the North's lucrative proliferation of missiles, a major source of cash for the destitute state, and has sent the U.S. point man for sanctions to Asia for discussions
i think we all know they aren't making most of the components. shut off their supply, and then block their sales of product
Glass,
IMO, without help from China, an open NK-China border will undo the effects of any embargo the UN, or US attempt to enact. China is the key to NK and IMO they are not cooperating.
Machiavelli,
You mentioned earlier that causeing NK to collapse was as easy as cutting off the food supply and letting NK's armies starve. While this sounds easy and would probably work, I would like to know just exactly how you would propose we seal off the border between NK and China, where most of NK's food comes from?
NR.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Machiavelli,
You mentioned earlier that causeing NK to collapse was as easy as cutting off the food supply and letting NK's armies starve. While this sounds easy and would probably work, I would like to know just exactly how you would propose we seal off the border between NK and China, where most of NK's food comes from?
NR.
What proof is there that China supplies NK with food? If they did then NK's citizens wouldn't be starving as reports say and NK wouldn't care about our embargoes or anyone else's. But I'll humor and assume you are correct. The way to stop China from supplying NK is to pressure China economically and politically. We are China's #1 customer and they need us as much as we need them. But we have to play tough love with them but as Glass has pointed out in the past we do not have the ballz to do so. But if we did then I think China would cooperate more with us simply because they stand to lose more with us then with NK.
Posted by glassman on :
seems to me that China likes to loan us money. maybe they'd like us to spend alot of money going after N Korea too? money they can loan us?
Posted by NaturalResources on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
What proof is there that China supplies NK with food? If they did then NK's citizens wouldn't be starving as reports say and NK wouldn't care about our embargoes or anyone else's. But I'll humor and assume you are correct.
There is plenty of proof. For example, from the CIA World Factbook:
quote:External food aid now comes primarily from China and South Korea in the form of grants and long-term concessional loans. In May 2008, the US agreed to give 500,000 metric tons of food to North Korea via the World Food Program and US nongovernmental organizations; Pyongyang began receiving these shipments in mid-2008.
The way to stop China from supplying NK is to pressure China economically and politically. We are China's #1 customer and they need us as much as we need them. But we have to play tough love with them but as Glass has pointed out in the past we do not have the ballz to do so. But if we did then I think China would cooperate more with us simply because they stand to lose more with us then with NK.
Perhaps... But, if they need us and we need them, where is the leverage?
Personally? If we end up having to "deal" with NK, I hope it will be as easy as everyone seems to think it will be.
NR.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: Machiavelli,
You mentioned earlier that causeing NK to collapse was as easy as cutting off the food supply and letting NK's armies starve. While this sounds easy and would probably work, I would like to know just exactly how you would propose we seal off the border between NK and China, where most of NK's food comes from?
NR.
What proof is there that China supplies NK with food? If they did then NK's citizens wouldn't be starving as reports say and NK wouldn't care about our embargoes or anyone else's. But I'll humor and assume you are correct. The way to stop China from supplying NK is to pressure China economically and politically. We are China's #1 customer and they need us as much as we need them. But we have to play tough love with them but as Glass has pointed out in the past we do not have the ballz to do so. But if we did then I think China would cooperate more with us simply because they stand to lose more with us then with NK.
Actually Mach China DOES supply North Korea with food. 70-80% of North Koreas food imports come from China. Stop mooing.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
More missles!
North Korea Fires 2 Mid-Range Missiles Off Coast
SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea fired two missiles off it eastern coast Saturday, South Korea said, in yet another provocative move after U.N. sanctions were imposed on the communist regime for its May nuclear test.
The missiles were fired between 8 a.m. and 8:30 a.m., South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a statement. It did not say the range of the missiles.
"Our military is fully ready to counter any North Korean threats and provocations based on strong South Korea-U.S. combined defense posture," the statement said.
A Yonhap news agency report said North Korea fired two short-range missiles that appeared to be Scud missiles. The agency quoted a South Korean government official it did not identify. Yonhap originally reported the missiles were mid-range.
North Korea fired four short-range missiles off the east coast on Thursday.
Speculation had been high that the communist country might launch more missiles in coming days. North Korea had warned shipping to stay away from its east coast effective through July 10.
South Korea's military said Friday it was closely monitoring North Korean military sites, believing more missile launches were likely.
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Actually Mach China DOES supply North Korea with food. 70-80% of North Koreas food imports come from China. Stop mooing.
Did you read Natural Resources post? :
"External food aid now comes primarily from China and South Korea in the form of grants and long-term concessional loans. "
Loans and Grants. I interpret that to mean money and such but even if it is food you better believe that Kim Jong is not giving it to the common people.
So your not only Mooing now your NOT reading.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: More missles!
North Korea Fires 2 Mid-Range Missiles Off Coast
SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea fired two missiles off it eastern coast Saturday, South Korea said, in yet another provocative move after U.N. sanctions were imposed on the communist regime for its May nuclear test.
The missiles were fired between 8 a.m. and 8:30 a.m., South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a statement. It did not say the range of the missiles.
"Our military is fully ready to counter any North Korean threats and provocations based on strong South Korea-U.S. combined defense posture," the statement said.
A Yonhap news agency report said North Korea fired two short-range missiles that appeared to be Scud missiles. The agency quoted a South Korean government official it did not identify. Yonhap originally reported the missiles were mid-range.
North Korea fired four short-range missiles off the east coast on Thursday.
Speculation had been high that the communist country might launch more missiles in coming days. North Korea had warned shipping to stay away from its east coast effective through July 10.
South Korea's military said Friday it was closely monitoring North Korean military sites, believing more missile launches were likely.
Fox news... gee what a surprise lol now we know your a Fox news addict... anyways nothing says those missiles were Nuclear or any proof they were...
Stop Double Mooing...
Btw I really don't think South Korea is helping NK with food now do you? Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: External food aid now comes primarily from China and South Korea in the form of grants and long-term concessional loans. In May 2008, the US agreed to give 500,000 metric tons of food to North Korea via the World Food Program and US nongovernmental organizations; Pyongyang began receiving these shipments in mid-2008.
This article is about 2 years old but I think it's still true:
"Outside aid has all but ceased because foreign donors — even the regime’s ally China — have used food shortages to put pressure on its leadership."
I can assume SK and the U.S. are not giving them food aid currently.
quote:Perhaps... But, if they need us and we need them, where is the leverage?
Money. China wants our money whether from collecting the money they lent us or from selling us their products. We are their #1 customer and i doubt NK even comes close to being so.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by NaturalResources: External food aid now comes primarily from China and South Korea in the form of grants and long-term concessional loans. In May 2008, the US agreed to give 500,000 metric tons of food to North Korea via the World Food Program and US nongovernmental organizations; Pyongyang began receiving these shipments in mid-2008.
This article is about 2 years old but I think it's still true:
"Outside aid has all but ceased because foreign donors — even the regime’s ally China — have used food shortages to put pressure on its leadership."
I can assume SK and the U.S. are not giving them food aid currently.
quote:Perhaps... But, if they need us and we need them, where is the leverage?
Money. China wants our money whether from collecting the money they lent us or from selling us their products. We are their #1 customer and i doubt NK even comes close to being so.
Ok, so I think I can see the point you and Glass are trying to make. The US and China are in a love-hate relationship and it is in both of our mutual interests to cooperate economically. We need them and they need us, neither can walk away, so in a sense it creates a type of type of "dependant" based relationship that could be used for leverage on the NK issue.
However, IMO that is based on the assumption that the Chinese leadership values economic relationships with the US over Military and Strategic relationships with NK. Geopolitically, NK provides a very important "buffer-zone" between Communist China and Western Forces in SK and Japan. SK is essentially an "American Foothold" on the Asian continent and right at China's doorstep. IMO it seems foolish to assume that the Chinese leadership would abandon NK in such a way that it created a situation where US/Western forces and Chinese forces shared a common border.
Also, the Chinese economy does not operate in a vacume and with a few strategic economic deals with Europe, Russia and India, IMO it would be a lot easier for China to walk away from the US economically, than for the US to walk away from China, assuming it were to ever come to that point. (I agree, we don't have the cahones.)
JMO anyway, NR.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I said CHINA not South Korea MACH...always twistin the words. So what if I read Fox News articles. You make it sound like there is a difference between them and MSNBC being Obamas poster child.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I said CHINA not South Korea MACH...always twistin the words. So what if I read Fox News articles. You make it sound like there is a difference between them and MSNBC being Obamas poster child.
You didn't dispute others saying SK so you agree with them... but anyways China gives them loans/grants and they could also be holding back on NK lately in that regards...
As for MSNBC, they may be Left and biased that way but imo they are little more truthful if not completely truthful compared to Fox...
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Ran across this Opinion piece, figured I would post it.
"US officials eye North Korea in cyber attack Officials eye North Korea as origin of cyber attack that showed US agencies unevenly prepared By Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press Writer On Wednesday July 8, 2009, 6:19 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. authorities say they are eyeing North Korea as the origin of the cyber attack that overwhelmed government Web sites in the United States and South Korea. They warned it will be difficult to identify the attackers quickly.
Internet addresses have been traced to North Korea, three officials said, but they added that does not suggest the attack involved the government in Pyongyang. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.
The Internet attack, which stretched on for days beginning during the July 4 Independence Day holiday weekend, targeted dozens of government and private sites and underscored how unevenly prepared the U.S. government is to block such assaults."
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
The Last time this story came up we had a Financial Crisis months later.....Now the story has come up again????
Is History going to repeat itself???
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Ask wikileaks.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
breaking news....South Korea has begun live fire drills near the border. Not sure if anyone saw Russia calling for a UN meeting over it.
The United Nations Security Council's emergency talks on easing Korean tensions have ended without an agreement, just hours before South Korea was due to begin an artillery exercise on the border island that North Korean guns attacked last month.
North Korea has warned there could be "catastrophic" effects if the South Korean military goes ahead with its plans in the disputed area around Yeonpyeong Island.
As preparations went ahead Monday for the live-fire drill - a military exercise using live ammunition - the South Korean military ordered everyone on Yeonpyeong and adjacent islands into air-raid shelters.
There were unconfirmed reports that the artillery exercise would be delayed several hours, until the afternoon, due to foggy weather.
The focus of the crisis shifted to the Korean peninsula after diplomatic efforts collapsed at U.N. headquarters in New York.
Russian U.N. envoy Vitaly Churkin emerged from hours of talks late Sunday and told reporters that Security Council members could not agree on wording of a statement urging the two Koreas to exercise "extreme restraint." Churkin said it would be better if South Korea did not hold military drills at this time, but at that moment journalists and others on the islands were already being ordered to take shelter.
The U.S. ambassador at the U.N., Susan Rice, said most Security Council members wanted a strongly worded condemnation of North Korea's two attacks on the South this year. However, Rice said several nations - presumably including China, North Korea's closest ally - would not agree.
The U.S. envoy, speaking separately after the Security Council session ended, also reiterated Washington's view that South Korea has the right to conduct military drills in the Yellow Sea, and has done so without any deception.
Seoul says hostile action by North Korea has killed at least 50 of its citizens this year.
North Korea's November 23 attack on Yeonpyeong Island killed four people, including two civilians, and an explosion on March 26 that sank a South Korean warship in the same area killed 46 sailors. An international investigation concluded the ship was sunk by a North Korean torpedo, but Pyongyang has vehemently denied any role in the sinking.
During the emergency talks at the U.N. Sunday, Churkin said Security Council members discussed appointing an international envoy to begin diplomatic talks with both sides. The Russian diplomat said the talks started too late to pursue that goal, and that too many members were unable to act without consulting their governments about the wording of any statement.
Rice said she would not expect the Council to agree on a joint statement regardless how long the meeting lasted.
No one would name the countries to which they were referring.
Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Bill Richardson has been in North Korea trying to resolve the tense situation, and he told a reporter (for CNN) Sunday that his talks in Pyongyang had made "some progress." Specifically, Richardson, said a North Korean general was receptive to his proposal for setting up a hotline between North and South Korean forces.
Richardson's four-day trip to North Korea was due to end Monday.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
to deliver what they do have.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
But anyways you haven't read or listened to Glass about NK. This is no proof NK has such weapons and were not going to attack hastingly like we did Iraq without such proof. ![[Were Down]](graemlins/weredown.gif)
But that is where you would lose because that is no strategy at all and is how you would lose. Military strategy obviously is not your forte. NK's army may be the 4th largest standing army in the world but they know they cannot take us on. Our military is much much better then in the 1950's and Kim Jong knows it. All we would have to do is cut off NK's food and other supplies and his army would collapse from starvation etc. like the rest of the country already is.