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Author Topic: Bush on $4 gas: 'I hadn't heard that'
bond006
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PM you are 1/2 witted
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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by bond006:
PM you are 1/2 witted

Now you're just being generous [Eek!]

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Propertymanager
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quote:
I'm not about to park my dough for 3 1/2 years for a measly double...
Thank you Tex, my point exactly. Big oil (as well as big pharma, Walmart, etc) is a popular target for the socialists, but the profits are not out of line with other businesses. That's why you aren't willing to invest your money there.

quote:
PM you are 1/2 witted
That may be true, but at least I'm not foolish enough to buy into the socialists constant whining about big oil making obscene profits!
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glassman
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That may be true, but at least I'm not foolish enough to buy into the socialists constant whining about big oil making obscene profits!

maybe you missed this:
Exxon Mobil's profits are 80 percent higher than those of General Electric, which used to be the largest U.S. company by market capitalization before Exxon left it in the dust in 2005. The new economy? Microsoft earns about a third as much money. And next to Exxon, the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart, looks like a quaint boutique, with annual profits of about $11 billion.

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Machiavelli
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He likes to ignore facts most of the time Glass when it doesn't suit his views... lol

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
you get *my* point, I'm sure...

I'm not about to park my dough for 3 1/2 years for a measly double...

who said anything about 3.5 years or investing? lol Your in and your out just like sex... [Razz]

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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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the "obscenity" here is that nobody ANYWHERE has run out of gas or oil...

there is no shortage, there hasn't been any real disruption in supply.

there HAS been a huge consolidation of the large oil co's . we now have five co's that are larger than the next twenty combined... as of '03:

The largest five oil companies operating in the United States (ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco,
ConocoPhillips, BP and Royal Dutch Shell) now control:
· 14.2% of global oil production (nearly as much as the entire Middle East members of the
OPEC cartel).
· 48% of the domestic oil production (which is significant given the fact that the U.S. is the
3rd largest oil producer in the world).
· 50.3% of domestic refinery capacity.
· 61.8% of the retail gasoline market.
· These same five companies also control 21.3% of domestic natural gas production.

These figures are in stark contrast to just a decade ago, when the top five oil companies
controlled only:
· 7.7% of global crude oil production.
· 33.7% of domestic crude oil production.
· 33.4% of domestic refinery capacity.
· 27.0% of the retail market

In 1993, the top five U.S. companies controlled only 12.7% of domestic
natural gas production.


that's the real problem... it's not environmental whackos and socialistas, it's anti-trust violations unchecked...

it would only take TWO months of profits for Exxon to build ONE more refinery and that includes the costs of all the envrinnmental impact statemnts too....

sure, more US drilling would help run down world market prices too.. but drilling in ANWAR would have no significant impact on world oil prices, it's too remote... if you want to make a difference? you need to drill on the Gulf side of FLA, AL, and MS.... there's lots of oil there... and FLA is a GOP state.... has been for years...

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
and FLA is a GOP state.... has been for years...

I always found that odd to tell you the truth... do not know why it is a GOP state with such a large hispanic population...

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Stupid
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Hey Glass,no shortage here in central Fl.There are usually 2 or 3 oil tankers sittin of our coast waiting to unload at the refinery we have at the port but the storage tanks are full of crude and I believe the other two are diesel and gas...

Mach,large hispanic population yes.Legal probably not.They are only heard from when they wanna protest something Fidel does.I believe they need to go back to Cuba to complain.They dont wanna try to vote,imigration might catch'em but what do I know.I have only lived here for 43 years and yes,I will leave soon and bring the flag with me.

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DDDDD

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Propertymanager
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quote:
that's the real problem... it's not environmental whackos and socialistas, it's anti-trust violations unchecked...
Ridiculous! This is a very simple supply and demand issue. If more oil were being pumped and there was a glut of oil on the world market, prices would come down. If there was less demand, even with the current level of oil supply, prices would come down.

The fact is that China is growing rapidly and if their growth continues for the next 10 years, China will use all of the world's oil production (at today's rate). That means that over the next 10 years, either more pumping of oil needs to occur or prices will dramatically increase. The environmental wackos are preventing the US from drilling for oil in ANWR and off the continental shelf in many locations; have prevented us from adding nuclear power plants; have stopped windfarms off shore; complain that wind turbines kill too many birds, etc, etc, etc. They are directly responsible for many of the problems we have today.

quote:
it would only take TWO months of profits for Exxon to build ONE more refinery and that includes the costs of all the envrinnmental impact statemnts too....
If you think the oil companies are making such obscene profits, you should put your money where your mouth is and buy oil company stocks. Better yet, put together a group of investors and start your own oil company! If I believed that there were obscene profits to be made, that is exactly what I would do.
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glassman
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If more oil were being pumped and there was a glut of oil on the world market, prices would come down


"glut" of oil on the market? where would it sit? ever here of this new thing called "just in time delivery"? the oil co's have [Wink]

if you read? you'll find world demand is dropping right now.

pumped? yes, have you ever seen an oil pump? they operate at different speeds...

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glassman
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The fact is that China is growing rapidly and if their growth continues for the next 10 years, China will use all of the world's oil production (at today's rate).

yeah, and i have some magic beans for sale... only one cow.. interested? LOL where do you get this stuf from man? you need to switch your newswire service

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Lockman
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CITGO has the lowest prices in CT.

I believe that's a Venesula company.

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Let's Go METS!!!

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glassman
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In Riyadh Saudi Arabia? Gas is 65 cents a gallon
in Kuwait City Kuwait? 78 cents.
in cairo Egypt? 65 cents
in Lagos Nigeria? 38 cents
in Caracas Ven.? 12 cents.


maybe just in time delivery works? [Wink]

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Stupid
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Glass.You left out Cocoa,Fl at Hess $3.83

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DDDDD

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buckstalker
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Interesting video....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

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It's all in the timing...

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Stupid:

Mach,large hispanic population yes.Legal probably not.They are only heard from when they wanna protest something Fidel does.I believe they need to go back to Cuba to complain.They dont wanna try to vote,imigration might catch'em but what do I know.I have only lived here for 43 years and yes,I will leave soon and bring the flag with me.

Just thought I let you know I'm hispanic... and your statement is pretty much stereotypical and very bigoted... so I guess if you saw my parents somewhere like at the supermarket or wherever, you would think they are illegals?. Just to let you know they immigrated here legally in 1970 or 71 and gained their citizenship... but i guess to you all hispanics are illegals... and don't vote (note: me and my parents have been voting for years)...

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:


The environmental wackos are preventing the US from drilling for oil in ANWR and off the continental shelf in many locations; have prevented us from adding nuclear power plants; have stopped windfarms off shore; complain that wind turbines kill too many birds, etc, etc, etc. They are directly responsible for many of the problems we have today.

Seriously, you must be smoking some of the most potent Weed out there to be dreaming up these conspiracy theories... you make Mel Gibson's character in the movie Conspiracy Theory look like a choirboy lol

quote:
If you think the oil companies are making such obscene profits, you should put your money where your mouth is and buy oil company stocks. Better yet, put together a group of investors and start your own oil company! If I believed that there were obscene profits to be made, that is exactly what I would do.
I guess you would say the Getty's and Rockefellers made no money then? [Roll Eyes]

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The Bigfoot
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Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

There are plenty of people making money speculating on oil commodities right now, I could join them if I wanted to, but I am community minded enough to realize that these folks are basically holding the gasoline suppliers (and thereby the populous of America) hostage by running prices high while the numbers are tight.

(Note I said numbers...there is enough oil...they are using the reports to hijack trade)


I watched the run ups in oil stocks during the start of the war. I took part in the run up on these companies after Katrina. But when a small run up started based soley on a rumor that America was about to invade Iran I finally saw this for what it was...blood money. I made a vow then not to trade in another oil stock and so far I have stood by that pledge.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
Interesting video....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

yeah that is interesting, i'll do some followup dd.. it is quite possible theres much more oil there than has been "proven"...

i beleive the pumping of nat gas back into wells is to maintain pressure. there may not be as much to actually "haul off" after a short while, if they didn't keep pumping it back into the wells tho...

remember the "good old days when oil was "only" $75 per barrel?
Pipeline Closure Sends Oil Higher
BP to Halt Production of 400,000 Barrels a Day in Alaska

By Steven Mufson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 8, 2006; Page A01

After noticing an oil spill on a deserted stretch of frozen road in Alaska's North Slope in early March, workers needed three days to find the quarter-inch-wide hole in a pipeline, just where it dipped into a culvert to allow the caribou to pass.
News that BP would have to suspend production equal to 8 percent of U.S. petroleum output for an indefinite period helped push the price of crude oil up by 3 percent yesterday, to $76.98 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The price jump underlined the fragility of world oil markets, already anxious about the thin cushion between global supply and demand and potential threats to flows from Iran, Nigeria, Iraq and the hurricane-prone Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080700131. html

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
I finally saw this for what it was...blood money. I made a vow then not to trade in another oil stock and so far I have stood by that pledge.

Alot of stocks and their industries other then oil can be construed as "blood money"... does that mean we will not participate in our system of Free Market? ...

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glassman
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The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) recently completed a new assessment of undiscovered oil and gas resources of the central part of the Alaska North Slope and the adjacent offshore area. Using a geology-based assessment methodology, the USGS estimates that there are undiscovered, technically recoverable mean resources of 4.0 billion barrels of oil, 37.5 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and 478 million barrels of natural gas liquids

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3043/

Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil-US DOE
Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:52pm GMT


WASHINGTON, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Oil and natural gas production at Alaska's North Slope has been declining since 1988 but the region holds promise if energy prices stay high and Congress opens key areas to exploration, the U.S. Energy Department said in a report released on Tuesday.

Through 2050, the North Slope could yield up to 36 billion barrels of oil and 137 trillion cubic feet of natural gas under optimistic assumptions, the Energy Department said.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN2922284120080129

that's 38 billion MORE than the already proven reserves.

the Saudi's have 260 billion barrels...

ANWR holds about 6 billion barrels... ANWR is only a drop in the bucket...

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glassman
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as of last year Russia passed Saudi Arabia as the world leading oil producer...

8.8 million barrels per day (SA)
versus Russias 9.5 million per day.

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buckstalker
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This guy claims we could have as much as the Saudi's

I don't know if it's true...but I am 100% sure that I don't trust any level or branch of our government OR any media organization...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
This guy claims we could have as much as the Saudi's

I don't know if it's true...but I am 100% sure that I don't trust any level or branch of our government OR any media organization...

agreed, i'm just starting with the basic claims...

ANWR has been a political diversion IMO. it's never been economically important it's just been something to squabble over...

this came out last year:

'Big Five' Oil Companies Limit Exploration

ScienceDaily (Nov. 13, 2007) — A study released by Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy finds that the "Big Five" international oil companies (IOCs) are spending less money on oil exploration in real terms despite a four-fold increase in operating cash flow since the early 1990s. On the flip side, the study, "The International Oil Companies," finds that second-tier oil companies are spending more in exploration, positioning themselves to be in better shape when it comes to future oil reserves.
The study found that the Big Five (ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Chevron and ConocoPhillips), used 56 percent of their increasing cash flow on share repurchases and dividends, which were good for investors in the short term but put at risk the companies long-term oil reserves.

"The handwriting is on the wall. The oil majors are not replacing reserves," said Amy Myers Jaffe, co-author of the report and the Wallace S. Wilson fellow for Energy Studies at the Baker Institute.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071112140720.htm


the big five probably expect to acquire or finance the smaller co's as they develop their finds.... that would be my plan if i were them...

less risk this way... buy your own shares back so you can use shares to purchase and or fund the smaller ones once they begin to develop their new finds

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Propertymanager
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quote:
Seriously, you must be smoking some of the most potent Weed out there to be dreaming up these conspiracy theories... you make Mel Gibson's character in the movie Conspiracy Theory look like a choirboy lol
C'mon Mach, are you REALLY claiming that the environmental wackos haven't prevented us from building nuclear power plants; drilling for oil in ANWR and off the continental shelf; from putting a wind farm off of Cape Code (aka Ted Kennedy's sailing grounds); etc? That's not even credible!
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The Bigfoot
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Once again PM.

Where you gonna put the waste?

Answer that ONE question and you can build all the nuclear reactors you want.

(But if you do...be prepared for more countries like Iran to point to you as justification for doing the same thing. Is that what you want?)

You wind farm example is one instance of an abuse of power. Show me more to prove to me that wind farms (brought to you courtesy of environmental wackos) are actively fighting wind farm expansion.

Mach,

depends on your def of Blood Money. I would guess you are thinking of diamonds. Yes...to my mind I would be sure a company does not use unsafe labor practices such as can be found in Africa before investing.

My point on oil is that traders are jumping on board to profit from bloodshed and war. In that sense they are promoting violence for the sake of money. I personally believe that a self-respecting community minded trader should stay away from this destabilizing scenario. Don't feed the beast.

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The Bigfoot
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P.S. CNN reporting that Ted Kennedy has just been rushed to the hospital with stroke-like symptoms.

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glassman
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C'mon Mach, are you REALLY claiming that the environmental wackos haven't prevented us from building nuclear power plants; drilling for oil in ANWR and off the continental shelf; from putting a wind farm off of Cape Code (aka Ted Kennedy's sailing grounds); etc? That's not even credible!

forget the wind farm for now.

Nuke powerplants have not been been blocked by any whackos. none of this stuff has been...

we currently have no place to dispose of spent fuel. nobody wants to have their water being pumped out of an aquifer that runs thru a spent nuke fuel depot... there's nothing whacko about wanting to drink and bathe in clean water...


the fact is that everybody becomes an "environmental whacko" as you put it, when actually confronted with the real costs...

want some cheap rental properties? have you been to Chernobyl recently?


if drilling in ANWR was really profitable? it would already be happening. it's marginally profitable at todays prices. always has been.

it isn't environmental whackos that have blocked all efforts to set up a bigger system, it is everybody. build a nuke reactor in my neighborhood? no thank you i want to sell MY house at a PROFIT someday...

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glassman
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the wind Farm on Nantucket was also opposed by Mitt Romney... i bet rush forgot to mention that,

or the Fact that Republican Senator Ted Stevens tried to insert an amendment into the Coast Guard funding bill in '06 that would prohibit the Coast Guard from approving the wind-farm project if a "governor of an adjacent coastal State makes a written determination" opposing the proposed site.

or that Congressmember Don Young (R-Alaska) unsuccessfully tried to attach an amendment to the House version of the bill that would have required a mile-and-a-half buffer zone between the turbines and shipping and ferry routes.

or that in October 2004, Virginia Senator John Warner of Virginia (R) introduced an amendment to a defense spending bill that would have authorized a moratorium on all offshore wind projects in federally controlled waters....

these guys aren't environmental whackos. they are TOOLS....

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The Bigfoot
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Wow Glass.

Good DD!

What the hell is it about this wind farm that has everyone so riled up?

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glassman
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some people don't want it to spoil the view from their oceanside "cottages"...

others are competitors (in some way or another) to the company that wants to build the project...


the Alaska reps are representing oil interests...

alot of the lobbying moneys come from places no one can see...

Trent Lott just quit his US Senate seat in MS cuz he has over a million$ in his campaign fund. He cannot legally spend that money on himself unless he runs again. New laws go into effect requiring him to dispose of that money soon, so instead of losing the money? he just abandoned his state and his Senate seat so he could take that money and use it to lobby.
His lobbying co. can direct that money to other campaigns. His lobby company gets PAID to decide which candidates get that money...

even tho the money was donated to his campaigns, he now uses it to fund other campaigns and gets paid to "influence" the recipients... neat gig huh?

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bond006
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Nuclear power plants I would put my money on the coal minig lobbist have looked into it yt but we are one of the largest coal producer and user in the world. If we went nuclear who would be the big looser.

I have heard through a good source a friend of mine that researchs this stuff and he says that since we have stopped nuclear we have built 215 coal power plants.

Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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here's a link to the co that wants put the wind project in:

http://www.capewind.org/

and here's the rather large group including Kennedy that opposes it:

http://www.saveoursound.org/site/PageServer

they have objections to the wiring to carry the energy back to shore, and how it could harm birds etc...

but?

the opposition is not very strong in fundamentals. they just don't want it in their back yard. same story everywhere. it's not whacko. it's simply people looking out for their individual interests...

people that buy homes in west FLA with a Gulf view get real pissed when somebody blocks that view with a beach-front condo. then the condo people don't want to see an oil rig on their horizon...

they use rational EPA rules in ways that they were NOT designed to be used to block progress...

whackos? left wingers? not at all..it's capitalism and free-markets working hard...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
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Looks like Kennedy just had a stroke..
So you can take him off that list.

Posts: 2963 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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