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glassman
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this seems to be the main economic factor today..

world demand is about 1.5 million barrels above world supply...

that is also just about the difference in iraqi production since the war started..


iran may decide to reduce output as a result of the sanctions placed on them this week, or they may have no market...

how can the admin can place sanctions on anybody doing business with iran when we all know that we all need the oil?

doesn't taking one countries oil off the market just increase the value of the other countries oil?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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"how can the admin can place sanctions on anybody doing business with iran when we all know that we all need the oil?"

There you go again, assuming the administrations thinks.

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glassman
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it's a scam.

keep an eye on Kudlows interview of Cheney today...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Machiavelli
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use it to your advantage Glass by trading in the oil markets (stocks, futures etc.)...

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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LOL.. you don't see what's happening do you?

the government is continually publishing low inflation and good job growth numbers.

meanwhile? disposable income from consumers is not just disappearing, it's gone.

the figures are clear. we have a negative savings rate since '05, we have housing prices declining, and we have a larger spread between avg income earners and the top 10 percent earners than we have had since, well, the 1920's...

and if you look hard? you'll find all kinds of other commonalities in the US economy with the 1920's... you like charts right? compare them...

they called the 20's the roaring 20's because they threw caution to the wind and that's what's going on now.

Bush and Cheney's economic policies are setting US up for long-term problems. and they've done this intentionally. i am not predicting a depression here. what i am suggesting is a long drawn out economic crisis for America's middle class.

here's the Cheney interview:

this statement should make Dems happy, cuz the last time i heard an answer like this? it was Daddy Bush facing Bill in 92...

KUDLOW: You were talking before about the success of the tax cuts and so forth. On the campaign trail, many Democrats, Senator Clinton in particular, have said two things. Number one, middle class has not participated in this economic boom. She calls it a middle class trap door and says that wage inequality is the worst it's been since 1929. Do you have a response to those charges?

Mr. CHENEY: Yeah, I don't agree with it. I think that analysis is wrong. I think we've added well over 8 million jobs since the recovery took off some four years ago. We have seen a significant economic expansion underway now for 40 some months. It's been, I think, a very successful economic policy. And the suggestion that somehow there are hard times out there, I just--I just think is a misstatement.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/21492823/site/14081545/page/3/

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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The result of the depression was much greater governmental control of the economy.
Quite clear why the government would like to create another one.

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glassman
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when all that money just up an' disappeared during the 30's, where did it go? [Wink]

some DD about gross domestic product and how it is calculated now and how it has been calculated historically also bear witness to the flagrant manipulation of data this admin is participting in...

when they say we are spending less percentage of GDP on debt or energy? they are fictionalising

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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What a nice new word for lying.

"fictionalising"

I like that.

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glassman
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the IRS and the BEA (Bureau of Economic Analysis) never seem to agree on the figures anyway...

part of the "trick" is that they calculate how much more technology you get for your dollar...

so your 1000$ computer today was really worth the same as a DEC mini-vax in 1980.. (1/4 million or so [Big Grin] ) seriously, they do this and it sounds good, but i only paid 2500$ for my first 286 PC....

i was really happy to pay 3000 for my 486 with the COLOR monitor [Cool]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
LOL.. you don't see what's happening do you?


I'm not saying i disagree with you... just saying there is nothing we can do about it so you might as well take advantage of the oil prices and trade in the markets they are in (stocks, futures etc.) ...

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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glassman
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nothing we can do about it?

people say there's nothing we can do about this and that all the time, but "stuff" does get done all the time

mach, with all due respect? that sounds like a defeatist attitude.


alternative energy investment is where i'm working.

all the "experts" agree that right now there's a 15 to 30 dollar premium on oil becuase of trader speculation ....

the problem is that when they trade this high they set technical points that are used over and over again to justify making the same price a support price instead of a "premium price".

the market is being manipulated by the traders. not the the other way around.

the US represents 1/4 of the world economy and we consume 1/4 of the world oil supply...

our total economy has become based on oil due to scaling.

we have to drive 20 miles to go to work, we have to drive 20 mile to go shopping...

if the price of oil goes to 150$ barrel?
will people stop going to work? no...
will they stop shopping? no...
they will just give up what they have to...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Note: It is not necessary for the traders to know or intend be participating in manipulating the market that it be the case, nor is it necessary that they understand how it is being done.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Note: It is not necessary for the traders to know or intend be participating in manipulating the market that it be the case, nor is it necessary that they understand how it is being done.

i agree to a certain extent bdgee, however, i beleive the traders with the deepest pockets are the driving force. as they have always been...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Munchkin Man
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Greetings To All:

The Munchkin Man has one word to say:

URANIUM!

As the reality of the Peak Oil Hypothesis becomes increasingly apparent to more people of intelligence, they will begin to realize that a new and dominant source of energy will take over and remain supreme.

As the Age of Petroleum comes to an end, a major battle royal will ensue between each of the alternative energy sources.

You will have the following contestants:

Ethanol Man!

Fuel Cell Man!

Wind Power Man!

Solar Power Man!

Algae Man!

Clean Coal Man!

Water Power Man!

Fertilizer Man!

Uranium Man!

And a host of others.

And the winner is..................

URANIUM MAN!

The Munchkin Man will go on record right and state that Uranium as an energy investment is "the place to be" for the remainder of 2007 and for at least through all of 2008.

Good luck to all.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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jordanreed
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apply "DWE" manuever

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jordan

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
apply "DWE" manuever

Yep.....
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The Bigfoot
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Can we put the byproducts in your backyard Munchie? Until that problem is solved acceptance will be difficult.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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bdgee
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glass....

Yes, I agree with that. And, I point out that that sort you speak of never have thought of themselves as American or any other nationality. They seem to think they are a Nation unto themselves, responsible only to those of similar funding and wealth, to which they seem to assume membership is a right bestowed by God at birth.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
nothing we can do about it?

people say there's nothing we can do about this and that all the time, but "stuff" does get done all the time

mach, with all due respect? that sounds like a defeatist attitude.


alternative energy investment is where i'm working.

all the "experts" agree that right now there's a 15 to 30 dollar premium on oil becuase of trader speculation ....

the problem is that when they trade this high they set technical points that are used over and over again to justify making the same price a support price instead of a "premium price".

the market is being manipulated by the traders. not the the other way around.

the US represents 1/4 of the world economy and we consume 1/4 of the world oil supply...

our total economy has become based on oil due to scaling.

we have to drive 20 miles to go to work, we have to drive 20 mile to go shopping...

if the price of oil goes to 150$ barrel?
will people stop going to work? no...
will they stop shopping? no...
they will just give up what they have to...

Not a defeatist attitude. Just a realist attitude. Can you change what is going on? Can i or anyone else? no. Only Gov't's can and we all know that it is more profitable to not change our reliance on oil by special interests with deep pockets including politicians who profit directly or indirectly from the surge in price.

It is in the politicians self interest not to change such a thing. Like you pointed out we are not going to stop buying oil. Not now nor ever. Will there be a alternative to oil in the future? Perhaps but only if our politicians allow it and we all know how politicians and our Gov't are in this country regardless of party affiliation. The almighty buck first whether we like to admit it or not.

So, again regardless of manipulation or not I still ask why we as "traders" should not ride the trend and profit from it by taking advantage of it. Btw, I work in the jewelry industry and if you want to take another advantage then trade in markets (stocks, futures, etc.) in gold, platinum, silver, copper etc. and even Palladium which will be a "alternative" metal to these other high flying metals. Look for refining companies, retailers, wholesalers etc. that are traded on the stock market as well as gold/platinum/silver etc. future contracts. Do your own DD of course but I know this from the inside because I see the metal prices rising in the jewelry i handle. I didn't check the price of Gold today but it was $787 a ounce on Friday and people are predicting it will hit $800 a ounce this week. Just giving ya a tidbit. I attended a jewelry convention yesterday and I saw the wholesale prices and how high they are now.

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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T e x
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I see it simply doing electrical work: what was a $50 roll of MC (12-2), is now $150.

On the other hand? oil is over $90, yet gasoline not going along...

Consumers *could* affect this chit...a nice, solid 1-to-2 week boycott on Exxon would do wonders.

Do I expect that?

no

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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thinkmoney
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am i the only one that has smarts?

Oil is not the answer and never will be...

Shame on all who supported oil and who continue...
solar is answer..some fight fer alternative or nuclear but solar is the way not anything else...

Oil has harmed earth in ways uninmaginable and still the evil says we contiue oil...what part of **** is hard to understand?//

Oil polluted the earth...given cancer asthma..alergies combined with all other chemicals///yet the few good let the many ugly continue...

Oil has harmed my child and yours and is responsible fer golbal warming..you can argue all ya want but global warming is real and in several years it will be more pronunced...oil harmed human health and earth and yet we tolerate it....

Politically, it has gotten us in war fer greed.

bush and cheyney and crew should be hung fer the crimes they committed in name of greed...fer oil greed...

so, oil in NO NO NO No ......fer the wars and fer the health of humanity and our future on earth....

so, solar is the answer....


so, why da fuxk are we still in limbo?//

where the **** is any leadership???

none...all fer the few fer their greed...but they cant escape cancer nor asthma nor glaobal warming nor jhell in afterlife..fer the wrongs...fer their greed...

so, how solar? more investments?

and..lessen dependency on oil...more telecommute ...we have the technology...got to lessen consumption and we can but the greed will not per mit it....I say telecommute could leesen oil consumption by a 1/3 and leesen traffic congrestion....then...**** the oil and use it sparingly until solar...

why why whwy why do we let the oil greed of those evil cronies dictate the shape of our destiny? **** tehm..demand telecommute..demand investmentin solar..as a citizen do all u can to lessen oil consumption....

a brighter future fer usa..solar energy..innovation..no dependency and **** the evil...soalr innovation will create jobs that our govt has given to other nations at the expense of americans...where are the americans fighting for their interests?

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bdgee
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I agree with almost everything you say, think....

What I can't agree with is where you say, "solar is the way not anything else...".

Solar can certainly be a huge percentage of life without fossil "fuel" (we will still need coal and oil to make all the plastics and resins and chemicals that make this a modern world), but there is no reason to not have other large percentages come from wind, ocean currents, thermal differences in surface and subsurface temperatures, and many other non polluting technologies (and on the way to a purely nonpolluting energy policy, we can begin weening ourselves from dependence on burning fossil fuels to make energy by temporarily adopting other fuels like ethanol, methane, and filtered cooking oil).

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glassman
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It is in the politicians self interest not to change such a thing. Like you pointed out we are not going to stop buying oil. Not now nor ever. Will there be a alternative to oil in the future? Perhaps but only if our politicians allow it and we all know how politicians and our Gov't are in this country regardless of party affiliation. The almighty buck first whether we like to admit it or not.

hence my interest in politics..

as long as people keep electing people that put themselves first? this pattern will continue..

America was based on the principle of Government FOR the people and BY the people..

today? we have a govt for the corporations and by the corporations. and hillary represents that pattern as much as any neo-con.

here's an Edwards quote from last night:

The question is: Will America be fine? And will we ensure -- and I think this is the great moral test of our generation -- will we ensure that our children have a better life than we have had? That's the responsibility we have.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528787/page/9/

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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here's Biden's take on the price of oil, and this is what i meant when i said the high price of oil is a scam:

Biden: A big piece of that cost is risk. People are betting on things getting worse. That old joke, you know: When you're in a hole, you should stop digging.

Why do we continue to cause the price of oil to rise by continuing to rattle the saber with Iran? Why do we continue to cause the price of oil to rise by a foreign policy that is absolutely moribund of any center?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528787/page/14/


while i do beleive that Iran represents a true threat to US? i also believe the geo-diplomatic policies of Bush and Rice ( remember Rice was on the BOD of Chevron, Schwab and Rand ) are deliberate in their attempt to run the price of oil as high as they possibly can...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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thinkmoney
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I do think that in the interim there will be other alternative energy souces before solar adaptation, or any natural energy source that is benevolent to the environment...and us as a species...

Isnt there more fossil fuel used to make ethanoyl then its output? I think any energy that harms the earth will in the future be politically unacceptable and geneticlly for the health of our race. I dont get why we have use energy sources that not only polluted this earth but also harmed the health of us and our kids.

Yes, greed is the reason why....but the thinking to think that money can only be amde on oil, etc is shortsighted. I tell you that solar energy could transform life as we know it. It can be the next revolution...beyond anyone's belief..

Hopefuuly, it will come sooner then later cause the earth is warming and catastrophe will give no other choice.

What does it say for democracy when the national interests of this country is threatened tremendously by oil greed? I dont think we have the caliber of politicians to lead the way....

But, I place hope on americans to engage and make wise choices at all levels of society..

And, each moment presents opportnity...soon it may be profitable for more solar research and use....and, I disagree with glassman...

the politicians will not lead but other factors will lead the way....such as money to be made, survival....higher level of awareness and thinking ...

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thinkmoney
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And, there are folks who are leading us...
Gore, gincgrich, Laura Ingrahm, many others probablly...Some we respect and others not....some bring partial truth but there are voices out there who are not cowards on this issue like our politicians..and many more will join...

Thin what you want of Gore but he has made the earth climate in the forefrunt of discussion which in of itself influences others...where there is focus , that happens...

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glassman
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I tell you that solar energy could transform life as we know it. It can be the next revolution...beyond anyone's belief..

i agree, but we are still a few (short) steps away from solar being inexpensive enough to replace oil..

the state of the art involves growing (nearly) pure silicon crystals and cutting them into wafers.. it's simply an expensive process.. cheaper coating technologies are being developed, but they are less efficient at producing electricity...

if oil goes above 150$ solar will be cheaper WITHOUT having to be more efficient...

so, in some ways the high price of oil is a good thing..

it's just going to be a difficult transition for most people...
esp if they heat with oil this winter...

it took about 7 years to install enough fiber optic cable around the country to satisfy the large scale broadband system we have in place now...

if a strong push to install solar panels on every south facing roof in the US was initiated? we would see a surge in job growth of all types realted tot eh industry (construction, sales etc), and increased value in our homes, not to mention the income possibilities from small solar "farms" that could be set up on relatively little land...

more decentralised electricity production is actually better...

transmision of electric power costs US as much as 70% of what we actually produce..

by decentralising production we could (thoeretically) be more efficient...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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I agree. Decentralizing energy is a major improvement and a major cog in the wheel of progress.
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Munchkin Man
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Just you watch!

URANIUM MAN is going to win!

Just you watch!

Munchkin Man

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T e x
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uranium sucks, munchie.

looks good on paper, till you factor in all the costs

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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here's where the ultimate future is IMO and it will use solar electricity to run it...
it's not a joke, there is some significant extra energy coming from this "project" somewhere: about double the input [Eek!] ....

 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

and here:

The Enhanced Cold Fusion Reactor v3.0
created on May 8, 2003 - JLN Labs - Last update May 28, 2003

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/html/cfr30.htm

strong plasma electrolysis underwater

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/html/cfrnewps.htm


Further evidence of nuclear reactions in the Pd/D lattice:
emission of charged particles
Stanislaw Szpak & Pamela A. Mosier-Boss &
Frank E. Gordon

The density of tracks registered by a
CR-39 detector was found to be of a magnitude that
provides undisputable evidence of their nuclear origin. The
experiments were reproducible...

...In the search for additional
evidence we examined the production of tritium, which
was found to be sporadic and often at low rates. Nevertheless,
active periods persisting for days, were observed with
the tritium production rates of approximately 6×103 atoms/s
(Szpak et al. 1998). Recently, we reported that by placing an
operating cell in an external electrostatic field, “new
elements” are produced, among them Al, Si, and Mg (Szpak
et al. 2005a,b). In this report, we present a reproducible and,
what we believe to be, direct and undisputable evidence of
low-energy nuclear reactions in the Pd lattice, namely, the
emission of charged particles in amounts far greater than
that provided by the background.


http://www.newenergytimes.com/Library/2007SzpakS-FurtherEvidence-Naturwissenscha ften.pdf

if Fearless Leader wasn't so damn anti-"scientific progress"? we could be alot further along than we already are... something about the whole "program" the neo-cons have been pushing stinks to high heaven....

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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*Mag*
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glass is that a flux capacitor?

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^..^

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bdgee
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"if Fearless Leader wasn't so damn anti-"scientific progress", he might be at least half educated.

But then, to be at least half educated, you need to be at least half smart. So he (and each of his kind) is doomed to believe that he can interpret to suit his simple minded preferences, without ever even learning the rudiments of their art, and reach direct contradiction to what really smart people conclude via the culmination of several generations of dedicated hard work by thousands of scientist. It isn't arrogance, actually, because he is too ignorant to have any hope of understanding what genuine thinking amounts to.

Having proved he is the worst and least honorable president ever, he is also establishing that he reached such lofty rewards not through achievement or hard work, but because he is both the dumbest and most self centered president ever. This jerk has no love of our Nation. Indeed, those most fundamental precepts that precipitate our unique society and, thus, are the underlying heart and sole of the Constitution are things he despises and seeks to eliminate.

He is too ignorant to reach a level such as simple minded.

Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by *Mag*:
glass is that a flux capacitor?

comeon MAG, this is serious..

the basics are as follows..

if you can get two hydrogen molecules close enough together? they will overcome their repulsion caused by the friction of the elctrons and combine to make one molecule helium, which from Einsteins equations tells us we get a lot of energy too, (theoretically)including some ionizing radiation..

the hard part is getting the two H atoms to "mate"...
they seem to be able to get real close when they are "packed" into certain metals like palladium, platinum and it also appears that, to much lesser degree, they "pack tighter" in stainless steel..

the electrolyte gets messy and contaminated if you use "plain steel" (cheap wire mesh), i tried it too to see what happens...

in the expeirements i linked? the process is a very low fusion activity process (if iti s actually fusion), which is a good thing cuz we don't really want super high energy out puts.. we want something safe and simple that could be used to run a small boiler in your garage or house to heat your home...

i've played around with some parts of it and found that potassium carbonate does in fact make water split into hydrogen and oxygen using less elecricity, when you use tungsten rods and stainless... (tungsten rods are TIG welding rods and the stainless is just high quaility windo screen)

i have yet to put the real power to it to create a plasma arc...
plamsa arcs are like what is in neon signs or the bright light you see when you arc weld... the aurora borealis is like a plasma effect from the suns radation acting on the earth atmospheric gases... plasma is created when you "knock off" the outer electrons, and Hydrogen only has one to knock off...

i have yet to do the arc cuz i don't have a geiger counter and i don't trust it ...

all of the things you see used in the JNlabs expirement are available on ebay at one time or another, and if you're in hurry? radio shack even has some of the parts.....

it's not even rocket science... since i blow glass? i can make up the glass parts in my studio...

i even saw 100% platinum wire on ebay today which is better than stainless. but alot more expensive... i use platinum and palladium in some of glass work, but it's in very very very thin leaves, and won't give me good results...


i actually do alot of welding, but i don't want to risk radiation sickness if this actually worked...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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*Mag*
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Glass I read the links and what you posted; seriously, I have a science backround which means nothing, but I want to say that I have had some of my best laughs with science (Physics)professors. Dont want to upset any vets here... If you are afraid of radiation sickness perhaps you can get a couple of these (see link below) to ease your mind if you decide to proceed with your testing and always keep some potassium iodide handy to protect your thyroid just in case...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Radiation-Detection-Badge-Dosimeter-NEW-ISSUE_W0QQitemZ33018 0108875QQihZ014QQcategoryZ73365QQcmdZViewItem

FWIW I pulled this... Flux is commonly used in electronics and electromagnetic theory and application, but rarely in the context of a capacitor. In general terms, flux simply means the rate at which some quantity (such as electric charge or magnetic field) changes through a conductor (e.g. charge flux).
While they are not generally called flux capacitors, the common inductor is an electrical component whose function in many contexts could be thought of as a flux capacitor - it consists of a coil of wire that converts and stores electrical energy as a magnetic field where it can be retrieved when the magnetic lines of flux collapse.


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^..^

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