posted
You know, I'll grant you that these two guys are talented as far as the guitar goes. I'm still questioning if the first guy was really playing or just faking it. To me though, learn to play a wind or a string and bow instrument and that truly shows talent. You or I could take guitar lessons for a year or two and do exactly what they're doing. Try picking up a sax or a violin and become a maestro in a year, it doesn't happen. That takes a lifetime in my opinion.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Upside: You know, I'll grant you that these two guys are talented as far as the guitar goes. I'm still questioning if the first guy was really playing or just faking it. To me though, learn to play a wind or a string and bow instrument and that truly shows talent. You or I could take guitar lessons for a year or two and do exactly what they're doing. Try picking up a sax or a violin and become a maestro in a year, it doesn't happen. That takes a lifetime in my opinion.
I do play guitar since i was a teenager (im 35 now) and I can give my opinion on both these guys more so then you guys... the first one is a 16 yr old teenager if my memory serves me correct. I saw this video a year ago.The video clip was a hit on Youtube and the internet when it came out. He's not faking it, trust me i know. And what he does is not easy and no... 1 year of lessons will not having you play like that. Guitar is a very difficult instrument and metal guitarists (which essentially this kid is) are the best musicians overall in the world in terms of the guitar... they literally practice hours and hours a day...they can play any style of music or learn any style very fast... not only that but metal guitarists can transition to other instruments very easily including string instruments like the violin and instruments like the piano (iv'e known alot of such people in my lifetime who have including a best friend of mine from high school who picked up other instruments after mastering guitar and pretty much mastered those).
In this video he is using metal techniques such as arpeggios, hammer ons/pull offs, volume swells, tapping , modal scales etc. Things that are difficult to master and need just as much study as a violinist and their techniques if not more so. Not only that but the kid also improvised well executed solos because if you ever heard the original Canon in D by Pachelbel it doesn't have quite as many notes.
As for the 2nd guy.. his musical style is not metal but he uses a metal technique (tapping) as well as a Funk Bass technique on a guitar instead. The 2nd guy is good but not my style of music.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Upside: You know, I'll grant you that these two guys are talented as far as the guitar goes. I'm still questioning if the first guy was really playing or just faking it. To me though, learn to play a wind or a string and bow instrument and that truly shows talent. You or I could take guitar lessons for a year or two and do exactly what they're doing. Try picking up a sax or a violin and become a maestro in a year, it doesn't happen. That takes a lifetime in my opinion.
I do play guitar since i was a teenager (im 35 now) and I can give my opinion on both these guys more so then you guys... the first one is a 16 yr old teenager if my memory serves me correct. I saw this video a year ago.The video clip was a hit on Youtube and the internet when it came out. He's not faking it, trust me i know. And what he does is not easy and no... 1 year of lessons will not having you play like that. Guitar is a very difficult instrument and metal guitarists (which essentially this kid is) are the best musicians overall in the world in terms of the guitar... they literally practice hours and hours a day...they can play any style of music or learn any style very fast... not only that but metal guitarists can transition to other instruments very easily including string instruments like the violin and instruments like the piano (iv'e known alot of such people in my lifetime who have including a best friend of mine from high school who picked up other instruments after mastering guitar and pretty much mastered those).
In this video he is using metal techniques such as arpeggios, hammer ons/pull offs, volume swells, tapping , modal scales etc. Things that are difficult to master and need just as much study as a violinist and their techniques if not more so. Not only that but the kid also improvised well executed solos because if you ever heard the original Canon in D by Pachelbel it doesn't have quite as many notes.
As for the 2nd guy.. his musical style is not metal but he uses a metal technique (tapping) as well as a Funk Bass technique on a guitar instead. The 2nd guy is good but not my style of music.
Sorry Mach but I'm not buying it. My brother has played around with a guiter (Fender Strat) since he was 16. He's 45 now. He's never taken a lesson, just taught himself and he can do what that guy does. Ever see or hear Ric Emmett of the old band Triumph play "fingertalking?" He can mimick that to a "T". Some of Frank Zappas best guitar work can be copied by a 2nd year student.
I admit I might be talking out of my ass here but at least in my opinion, the guitar with all it's nuances is relatively easy to learn when compared with what I consider the finer or true or real musical instruments.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
They were an amazing band in their heyday, remember Blinding Light Show? I can still (vaguely) remember the all Canada Jam at Alpine Valley in Wisconsin when they opened up for Rush. Two three man bands and one messed up Up. Those were the days.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Upside: You know, I'll grant you that these two guys are talented as far as the guitar goes. I'm still questioning if the first guy was really playing or just faking it. To me though, learn to play a wind or a string and bow instrument and that truly shows talent. You or I could take guitar lessons for a year or two and do exactly what they're doing. Try picking up a sax or a violin and become a maestro in a year, it doesn't happen. That takes a lifetime in my opinion.
I do play guitar since i was a teenager (im 35 now) and I can give my opinion on both these guys more so then you guys... the first one is a 16 yr old teenager if my memory serves me correct. I saw this video a year ago.The video clip was a hit on Youtube and the internet when it came out. He's not faking it, trust me i know. And what he does is not easy and no... 1 year of lessons will not having you play like that. Guitar is a very difficult instrument and metal guitarists (which essentially this kid is) are the best musicians overall in the world in terms of the guitar... they literally practice hours and hours a day...they can play any style of music or learn any style very fast... not only that but metal guitarists can transition to other instruments very easily including string instruments like the violin and instruments like the piano (iv'e known alot of such people in my lifetime who have including a best friend of mine from high school who picked up other instruments after mastering guitar and pretty much mastered those).
In this video he is using metal techniques such as arpeggios, hammer ons/pull offs, volume swells, tapping , modal scales etc. Things that are difficult to master and need just as much study as a violinist and their techniques if not more so. Not only that but the kid also improvised well executed solos because if you ever heard the original Canon in D by Pachelbel it doesn't have quite as many notes.
As for the 2nd guy.. his musical style is not metal but he uses a metal technique (tapping) as well as a Funk Bass technique on a guitar instead. The 2nd guy is good but not my style of music.
Sorry Mach but I'm not buying it. My brother has played around with a guiter (Fender Strat) since he was 16. He's 45 now. He's never taken a lesson, just taught himself and he can do what that guy does. Ever see or hear Ric Emmett of the old band Triumph play "fingertalking?" He can mimick that to a "T". Some of Frank Zappas best guitar work can be copied by a 2nd year student.
I admit I might be talking out of my ass here but at least in my opinion, the guitar with all it's nuances is relatively easy to learn when compared with what I consider the finer or true or real musical instruments.
No offense but you are talking out of your ass. As for fingertalking. I assume that is where you mean the "guitarist" makes the guitar sound like it's talking like it is a human voice. I agree that "fingertalking" is not that difficult to do. Steve Vai (david lee roth's old guitarist in his solo band, student of Joe Satriani played in Zappa's band at the age of 19 etc.) used to do that alot. And a guitarist from the 70's in the band Triumph before guitar got really "technical" in the 80's does not compare to any and i do mean any guitarist from nowadays. Anyone can play Triumph's guitar work blind folded. Guitar if you have not been paying attention has gotten very "technical" since Eddie Van Halen debuted in 1978 on VH's first album and made "tapping" famous.
What really makes you talking out of your ass is to say the Guitar (be it electrical or acoustic,classical or metal) isn't a real/finer/true instrument. Any student of violin and other instruments will tell you as well you are sadly mistaken because it is a very difficult instrument. You really are talking about something you know nothing about.Nicolo Paginini, widely considered the greatest violinist of all time regularly composed his violin music on a guitar including his 24 Caprices.Anyways Multiple finger tapping, sweeping arpeggios, playing in odd tunings, hammer ons/pull offs, playing 32nd notes and higher etc. are not easy at all and if you think they are your out of your mind. I bet you have no idea what I said when I just named these techniques.
Perhaps you know about trading stocks or know about political issues but this is one topic you know nothing of. If you think the guitar is so easy to learn with it's "nuances" then I challenge you to take it up for 1 year with lessons or self taught and try to do what that kid did or others do like below (btw I never said one needed to take lessons to learn the guitar, a very dedicated person can be self taught but it is by no means easy to learn the technical and more advance "nuances" of the instrument). Perhaps if you try to learn the instrument itself , lessons or self taught, and you realize that it is not "easy" then perhaps you will appreciate the instrument more and see it in a whole different light (some people can take it up more easily then others but nonetheless it is still not "easy" for them neither.. takes hours and hours of practice per day):
posted
Easy? I think not lol Now remember there are 6 strings on a guitar not 4 like a violin which makes it harder and the fretboard is wider and not as easy to reach certain notes when playing fast and some people play on 12 string guitars as well:
And if you think what Paco does (complex chord changes as well as the speed and do it all with precision and no mistakes) isn't difficult your in some other planet lol jk ... still think this instrument is not difficult and not a "real" instrument and you can learn it in one year what these people do? ... anyways if you need more examples let me know...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe you Machavelli...lol...and yes I do want to see more examples...
Upside...NO ONE can learn to play like these people in 1 or 2 years...in fact MOST people could NEVER learn to play like that...EVER! Only seriously dedicated, extremely talented people can play that well.
I've heard all of these guitarists except for Sharon Isbin...she is damn good! Show me some more...
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
my opinion only, since i dont play guitar...but i know many who do.
My bro, for one. he's 58.. been playing for 48 yrs...he doesnt give props to many guitarists, cept the classical and flamenco guys.. One guy he does appreciate alot is eddie van halen..he thinks he is one of the best. But, basically, he makes fun of most metal guys cuz of the tricks they use for showmanship. Scott(brother) plays flamenco and classical,,has been for 35 yrs, and he practices 6- 10 hours a day and still has a long ways to go. he is great but not as polished as a..say... Paco? Very difficult to master that style. I was on the road with the bro for 10 yrs..and while I would be out fishing..he would be in the room practicing,, everyday! and not the rock we were playing on stage, but his damn flamenco crap.( personally i dont like that style) .. those kids on the vid?...good..but I'd like to hear them play trumpet or the bone or some reed....after the same amount of practice.Bet they couldnt come close. I,ve been playing sax for 45 years and I'm not close to some of the guys in this area...it does seem that guitar is easier to learn than other instruments..but to master?..no. anything to master takes years and years of practice. I learned the harmonica in one day..30 years ago..still play everyday...but not as good as a charlie Musslewhite...I have yet to hear One guy play most anything, other than the guitar( or harp), as good as those kids at that age. but lots can play guitar that good....a good show can make up for a lot... BUT...those kids are really,really good.
in conclusion....imo....guitar is easier to get good at, but not easier to master ...
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
I managed one of the top cover bands in this area, beginning when they were still in their teens...the lead guitarist was one of the "hottest" kids i had -- and have -- ever seen. Using all "vintage" gear, such Fender Black- and Silverface amps, Strats, Tellies, Gibson...they could sound like Stones here, The Doors there (*without* a keyboard, yet), Led Zep next, and so on... and a lot had to do with the lead guitarist and the way he would manipulate whichever guitar he was playing *and* the amp...
But...jazz? Not so much... ie, lots of better jazz guitarists... He's with a successful country band, now, doing pretty well.
quote:Originally posted by T e x: well said, JR...
I managed one of the top cover bands in this area, beginning when they were still in their teens...the lead guitarist was one of the "hottest" kids i had -- and have -- ever seen. Using all "vintage" gear, such Fender Black- and Silverface amps, Strats, Tellies, Gibson...they could sound like Stones here, The Doors there (*without* a keyboard, yet), Led Zep next, and so on... and a lot had to do with the lead guitarist and the way he would manipulate whichever guitar he was playing *and* the amp...
But...jazz? Not so much... ie, lots of better jazz guitarists... He's with a successful country band, now, doing pretty well.
No offense Tex... but Doors, Zep, Stones etc. are not difficult to play.. and there really isn't any manipulation.. its just nothing to play lol
As for Jazz guitar.. yes its difficult to play... but my point is that metal guitarists are such good musicians they can play any style and they do (my friend started out as a rock/metal guitarist and got a bachelors in classical studies and teaches it now)... 3/4's or more of guitarists in college (berkeley out in Boston being the best along with Julliard) are metal guitarists and they just make the transition to study jazz and classical with ease because they already have the speed technique as well as music theory down among other things...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: my opinion only, since i dont play guitar...but i know many who do.
Try learning it on your own or with a instructor as a experiment for 1 year. Then try what you saw in those video clips. To make it easy try the first clip with the kid and Canon in D.
quote:My bro, for one. he's 58.. been playing for 48 yrs...he doesnt give props to many guitarists, cept the classical and flamenco guys..
No offense but your brother is what's called Old School. Sort of like someone who listens to cassettes still even though CD's came in vogue and are more advanced. Hope you understand what I mean. But he is correct that classical and flamenco is very difficult but so is Metal of which he knows nothing about.
quote: One guy he does appreciate alot is eddie van halen..he thinks he is one of the best.
This is where your brother knows nothing about metal guitar. Though Eddie was a innovator with two hand tapping he really is nothing when it comes to technique. Any metal guitarist can play Eddie's songs/solos with eyes blinded but Eddie can't play their stuff. He's a innovator for is time but not a master no more. Satriani, Vai and others can two hand tap around Eddie any day of the week. You should rewatch the Satriani vid clip again. Eddie can't do that. Nor would your brother be able to. And it's not a trick it's a actual technique that Eddie, whom your brother respects, started but guys like Satriani took it further.
quote:But, basically, he makes fun of most metal guys cuz of the tricks they use for showmanship.
Again like I said he has no idea what he is talking about. Do me a favor and ask him what "tricks"? Tricks to me is like lip synching or faking it and what these guys do is real and not fake. And also tell him that I challenge him to try the most difficult metal pieces then give a opinion. As for showmanship. What Stevie Ray Vaughn does by playing guitar behind his back is showmanship it doesn't make it any less difficult to do. Ask your brother to do that without looking at the fretboard.
quote:Scott(brother) plays flamenco and classical,,has been for 35 yrs, and he practices 6- 10 hours a day and still has a long ways to go. he is great but not as polished as a..say... Paco? Very difficult to master that style. I was on the road with the bro for 10 yrs..and while I would be out fishing..he would be in the room practicing,, everyday! and not the rock we were playing on stage, but his damn flamenco crap.( personally i dont like that style) ..
Because he only plays two styles he is very biased and doesn't appreciate other styles nor how difficult it is to play them. Like I said, I challenge him to play metal.The lead stuff and not the rhythm. Your brother like I said is old school. He was in his 30's already when metal guitar progressed from the easy 70's stuff to the more advanced 80's stuff.Most guys in their 30's wouldn't get into metal so in that regards he is biased. On the other hand Metal Guitarists embrace all music styles including flamenco and classical guitar like my metalhead friend did and has. So like I said I challenge your brother to try to play the lead metal pieces before he makes a biased opinion.
quote: those kids on the vid?...good..but I'd like to hear them play trumpet or the bone or some reed....after the same amount of practice.Bet they couldnt come close.
Let's take trumpet for example. You put your foot in your mouth with this one. I've played both instruments (took trumpet lessons in school when I was younger) and play guitar (metal and rock and some classical). Guitar imo and this is someone whose experienced in both is the more difficult instrument to play. For one you only need three fingers on the trumpet because there is only three piston valves. Guitar there are 6 strings(some other guitars have 12 strings) with about 23 frets on a average electric guitar. For metal you use anywhere between 4 fingers and up to all 10 fingers depending on the technique and/or speed of a piece of music. So again if a Metal guitarist is as dedicated to guitar to practice for hours on end and play as good as they do, do you not think that if they put those same hours into trumpet that they would not be just as good with a instrument that only requires 3 fingers?
quote: I,ve been playing sax for 45 years and I'm not close to some of the guys in this area...it does seem that guitar is easier to learn than other instruments..but to master?..no.
It may seem it but it's not. Guitar has the same 12 note scales and music theory as any other instrument. Playing a instrument is not all technique, it is also music theory. And music theory in guitar is just as difficult. And I'll go a little further and say why metal guitar is also difficult if not more so then classical. Metal musicians compose their own pieces. Classical pretty much doesn't.They play pieces that were already composed 100's of years ago. So therefor improvisation is another reason metal guitar is more difficult. Classical people for the most part do not compose and have no creativity in that regard. There are some that do compose but for the most part you do not hear anything about them because what they compose does not measure up to the masters of the past.
quote: anything to master takes years and years of practice. I learned the harmonica in one day..30 years ago..still play everyday...but not as good as a charlie Musslewhite...
I will take your word for it that it takes one day to learn the harmonica. I don't think I could learn it in one day. I think every individual has a different learning curve with regards to all instruments.But you are correct that it takes years and years of practice to master any instrument. Metal guitar is a very technical and fast style with alot of improvisation that has to be executed just as perfectly as a classical piece. It's not respected and appreciated because of people's ignorance of it. People do not explore it enough to appreciate the time and effort and difficulty it is to play it.
quote:I have yet to hear One guy play most anything, other than the guitar( or harp), as good as those kids at that age. but lots can play guitar that good....a good show can make up for a lot...
It has been said that Brian Jones when he was alive and in the Rolling Stones could pick up any instrument and pretty much master it within hours. In fact the more complex things & other instruments not guitar you hear in the Stones recordings in the early years were in fact Jones and not Keith Richards. Also Prince is said to be a multi instrumentalist. Both these guys are not metal guitarists but they are guitarists who have a good sense of music (think of music theory subconciously)that they can pick up any instrument and master it it's intricancies(i probably spelled this wrong lol). But i know metal guitarists who can play more then one instrument. Most can play piano as well since their fingers are so well trained.
quote:BUT...those kids are really,really good.
Yes but why do you think they are? Because they live, eat and breathe guitar. They have no lives pretty much. All they do is practice. Back in the day it was difficult for me to get my "guitar" friends to come out and hang out. They were always practicing. It is because of this dedication that these "kids" get very good and then there is a misconception from people who do not play the instrument that it must be easy to play. But it's not. I'ts just that they practice ALOT. I'll equate them to a skateboarder. If you have seen the skateboard kids out in the street in your neighborhood. They all have no lives. All they do is skate. You rarely see girls with them. Yet some if not most are good at skating with their "tricks". Tony Hawk didn't become the greatest skater of all time because he sat on his ass. But I am sure it is safe to say that none of us would think that skateboarding is easy just because these kids master it at such a young age. I would just say that young people can master things alot easier then us older folks. But that doesn't make any instrument etc. any less difficult overall. Languages is another field. Kids seem to master languages alot easier then us adults can. See a pattern and how I compare this to guitar. Metal guitar is not easy at all and it's not "tricks" as your brother thinks. So ask your bro to try to play it and I think you should learn to play guitar as well for 1 year at least. Then perhaps you might appreciate these kids more but more importantly you might respect the guitar more and can give a better opinion then you are now.
quote: in conclusion....imo....guitar is easier to get good at, but not easier to master ...
"Easier to get good at" if you play the Rolling stones but not so if you play stuff by Satriani, Vai, Malsteen, Rhoads, MacAlpine, Becker,Friedman,Moore etc. Most of us can't play like them and probably never will play like them, they are just that advanced.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
this is a stupid arguement...sorry..i stand by everything i said...trumpet requires only 3 fingers,yes BUT?...thats to play every note in every scale...very,very,very difficult.your embouchure affects everything.... with guitar you can play a blues song in 10 minutes..never having played before..try that with sax.. cant play chords with sax, only progressions..again,much more difficult and takes longer to accomplish. not disparaging you at all.. but your experience is limited...and thats ok..time will heal that...
as for my bro?...he can play metal in his sleep,,did it for as long as you have been alive.
i wont try to learn guitar..why should I?.. everyone plays that...you try to play sax..now that would be something... I do play keys, however... I think everyone who plays should understand chords and learning on the piano is the way to go..
by the way,, my nephew went to Berkeley , one brother plays trumpet, one other plays guitar and piano,another trombone,a sister plays sax and piano, another plays piano and trombone, I play clarinet,alto and tenor sax and harp and keys, and my mother played piano...my dad couldnt even play the radio
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I believe you Machavelli...lol...and yes I do want to see more examples...
Upside...NO ONE can learn to play like these people in 1 or 2 years...in fact MOST people could NEVER learn to play like that...EVER! Only seriously dedicated, extremely talented people can play that well.
I've heard all of these guitarists except for Sharon Isbin...she is damn good! Show me some more...
Yeah Sharon Isbin is amazing. She's been playing since the age of 9 or 11. I read a interview of hers years ago. At one point when he was alive she was in Andres Segovia's master classes. Anyways more clips below:
posted
"No offense Tex... but Doors, Zep, Stones etc. are not difficult to play.. and there really isn't any manipulation.. its just nothing to play lol "
no offense taken... will point out tho' that thousands of guitarists can hit the same notes in the same rythym, and the dummer is keeping time, etc...but they don't still don't do the song justice. For instance, I've seen "tribute bands" doing Beatles, Stones, Zep, Doors, AC/DC, etc. Have seen only one Beatles tribute better than my guys do Beatles, and none of the others... It's one thing to be able to tell what song they're playing, another thing to play, say, the "famous lead" note for note...quite another thing to "capture" the feel total sound...
Speaking of multi-instrumentalists...part of the success was also the frontman's three-octave vocal range, piano training, rhythm guitar, alto and tenor sax and harps...
and, no offense, Mach, but a lot of metal is pretty boring... You mentioned Stevie (who of course got the behind-the-back stuff from Hendix)...a lot of what makes Stevie's stuff is as much the notes he *doesn't* hit as those he does... in other words, the spaces and room to breathe...
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: this is a stupid arguement...sorry..i stand by everything i said...trumpet requires only 3 fingers,yes BUT?...thats to play every note in every scale...very,very,very difficult.your embouchure affects everything.... with guitar you can play a blues song in 10 minutes..never having played before..try that with sax.. cant play chords with sax, only progressions..again,much more difficult and takes longer to accomplish. not disparaging you at all.. but your experience is limited...and thats ok..time will heal that...
I'm passionate about arguments when I think someone is wrong... and I guess you miss the part about me playing guitar, trumpet and some piano since I was a kid... so I would say my experience is not very limited (I'm 35)... and as for blues... well I never recall saying that playing blues rhythm is difficult... but if you think doing what Stevie Ray Vaughn does lead wise (excluding the showmanship) is easy... your sadly mistaken... if such things were easy then anyone can or would be a star or considered a guitar god... and contrary to belief very few are for a reason... because it's not easy and not everyone can create such music that is considered "good" or "great" much less have others think your playing is good/great... Playing other people's songs is one thing... playing your own and be a genius is another thing....
quote:as for my bro?...he can play metal in his sleep,,did it for as long as you have been alive.
What did he play that you consider metal? Black Sabbath? anyone can play that.. i doubt very much so he can play Paul Gilbert, Tony MacAlpine, Yngwie Malsteen,Marty Friedman, David T.Chastain,Steve Vai, Satriani etc. much less playing Di Meola etc. For some reason (and i would say it's because of lack of "experience" from you) you seem to think that guitar is just holding down a note and picking the note... when the styles these people play require a whole lot more then that... like sweep picking arpeggios in 32nd notes and higher, two handed tapping with multiple fingers ala Satriani, etc. not "tricks" but actual technique that is very difficult...
quote:i wont try to learn guitar..why should I?.. everyone plays that...you try to play sax..now that would be something... I do play keys, however... I think everyone who plays should understand chords and learning on the piano is the way to go..
Why won't you try? it is after all easier to play/learn then the Sax correct? You should be able to do all those metal "tricks" with ease and be playing like that kid in the Canon in D vid clip at the very least.... Anyways the reason I suggest you try to learn guitar is to see for yourself if it's actually easy to learn on... because if you don't then you really don't know what you are talking about any more then I would know what I'm talking about sax since I do not play the instrument... I easily could say the same thing about the sax that you do about the guitar... but I won't because I'm big enough to admit that playing the sax is difficult and only for the reason because my opinion is all instruments are equally difficult to play and master... for the most part it depends on the individual... like i said earlier... everyone has different learning curves... some can learn a technique in one week... others take a year...
quote: by the way,, my nephew went to Berkeley , one brother plays trumpet, one other plays guitar and piano,another trombone,a sister plays sax and piano, another plays piano and trombone, I play clarinet,alto and tenor sax and harp and keys, and my mother played piano...my dad couldnt even play the radio
And your point being with this list of your family other then they play instruments? I don't know them nor have I heard them play any instrument to form a opinion that they know what they are doing much less you with your sax playing. Anyone can say they play a instrument for X amount of years. Doesn't mean they are good or know what they are doing after all those years. My father has been playing guitar for probably 50 or 60 years (has all your family beat in years) but I would say he is average at best and can't read notes. He asked me to teach him sometime of which I haven't had the time to teach him but will when he gets back from vacation. And as for the instruments that all your family play... with the exception of classical guitar... if you/your family members cannot create your own music with those instruments and can only play songs already created by other people then you are just playing a song note by note and doesn't make you good at the instrument (me as well).... just because a painter can make a exact copy of a Monet painting doesn't make him a painter per say... ... the true great musicians/instrumentalists can create as well as perform... with the exception of classical instrumentalists... they perform great and no one really creates great works anymore....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by T e x: no offense taken... will point out tho' that thousands of guitarists can hit the same notes in the same rythym, and the dummer is keeping time, etc...but they don't still don't do the song justice. For instance, I've seen "tribute bands" doing Beatles, Stones, Zep, Doors, AC/DC, etc. Have seen only one Beatles tribute better than my guys do Beatles, and none of the others... It's one thing to be able to tell what song they're playing, another thing to play, say, the "famous lead" note for note...quite another thing to "capture" the feel total sound...
I know it's more then just technique Tex.. i know it's the "feel" as well...but in this thread I'm focusing on the technique since that is what is the real issue to this discussion... with the exception of me and one other person... everyone thinks the "technique" in guitar regardless of style is easy to learn... in the words of one person... in 1 year or less... my argument is.. it's not easy and you are pressed to think that you can do what some of these guys do in 1 year or less when they themselves took years to learn what they do...
quote:Speaking of multi-instrumentalists...part of the success was also the frontman's three-octave vocal range, piano training, rhythm guitar, alto and tenor sax and harps...
Not sure where you are going with this... I know guitarists who play sax,guitar and piano... like i said guitarists tend to be multi instrumentalist then let's say a primary sax player being a multi instrumentalist.. guitarists (especially metal ones) have the natural tendency to learn more then one instrument or make the transition easier... then other way around...
quote:and, no offense, Mach, but a lot of metal is pretty boring...
Perhaps you just haven't listened to the right sub genre of metal (there are different styles of it) to call it all boring... this is just my guess but I would say you have a pre conceived stereo type of what metal is and sounds like... Give me some examples of what you think metal is... some bands you heard i mean... perhaps I can steer you in the right direction... I been listening to metal since 1983 so I would know more about it... and not for nothing but Metalheads have the most open mind when it comes to music... you would be surprised at some of the other music they listen to that is not metal or rock related... anyone can say any musical genre is boring... but that just shows that the person is not willing to give that style of music a try and are close minded about it... I used to be a total die hard metalhead but you know what? As i grew older I broaden my horizons and tried other musical styles and appreciate alot of music and listen to it (blues, classical, dixie jazz, new age, gypsy, punk, classic rock, latin etc.. etc.)... Like I said us metalheads are more open minded to other music... and if you listened to some metal you can hear jazz, classical, middle eastern etc. influences in their songs especially in the lead guitars...
quote: You mentioned Stevie (who of course got the behind-the-back stuff from Hendix)...
We'll I never said Stevie invented playing behind the back... any Stevie fan knows he worshipped Hendrix... What I did say was playing behind the back, while it is showmanship is also difficult to do.
quote:a lot of what makes Stevie's stuff is as much the notes he *doesn't* hit as those he does... in other words, the spaces and room to breathe...
Metal guitarists do the same... "spaces" as you call them... your just not paying much attention and I suspect you do not listen or watch the whole vid clips of Metal Guitarists... were not talking about songwriting or structure but about technique... because I can name the best guitarist in terms of "spaces": David Gilmour.. but thats not what this thread is about... but I do understand what you mean... sort of like being in cash instead of a stock position or folding a bad starting hand and waiting for a good starting hand in poker... yo comprendo... but were talking about technique and it's execution and whether guitar is a "real" instrument or not as compared to other instruments.. and whether if it's easy to learn/master or not as compared to other instruments.. etc.. etc...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I played the saxophone for about 3-4 years. It is hard to play, hell its even hard to get a good sound out if it sometimes. I've also played the electric guitar for about 5 years now and it sure isn't easy. I've never taken lessons so I don't know any advanced techniques but if you watch the first video and go to 2:28 to 2:30 you will notice a technique called sweeping and it is one of the hardest but coolest things to learn on the guitar. Well I guess my point is the guitar is not easy at all and I don't think any instrument worth while is.
Posts: 166 | From: RI | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bazooka: I played the saxophone for about 3-4 years. It is hard to play, hell its even hard to get a good sound out if it sometimes. I've also played the electric guitar for about 5 years now and it sure isn't easy. I've never taken lessons so I don't know any advanced techniques but if you watch the first video and go to 2:28 to 2:30 you will notice a technique called sweeping and it is one of the hardest but coolest things to learn on the guitar. Well I guess my point is the guitar is not easy at all and I don't think any instrument worth while is.
Thank you very much Mr. Bazooka... you said it quite well.. wish i could make my posts shorter but i get carried away sometimes lol... anyways Jordan, there is your person who plays both and can give a better opinion then you or me.. since you play sax only and i play guitar only... and he plays both... and yes "sweeping" arpeggios are hard as hell... watch the other clips for crazy guitar playing...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
i'll take my experience and my families and the dozens of great players i've played professionally with over the years, and put them up against most anything offered around this thread here(there are exceptions, you know who you are)..bazookas limited(3-5 yrs?),albiet nice, doesnt begin to scratch the surface of my knowledge in this area...please...I've played pro for 30 years...you?...again i'll say, great guitar playing is as difficult as anything done greatly...I've sat in with Lamont Cranston, Willie Murphy, Joe Juliano, Big Walter, Percy Struthers, Delbert McClinton, Buddy Guy, Free and easy, Gatemouth Brown, Bruce Macabe, Larry Hayes, Bronco, Cheater Slick, and many more..and not just sat in, but played with..studied for 10 yrs with sax great Jimmy Johnson..so come on... how can I argue about what is more difficult to play? I wont..playing an instrument is not easy..but some of us make it look easy. I will not disparage anyone who has the talent.
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
that's all I am trying to say... just because some people make it look easy doesn't make so... to say you can learn the guitar and play like these guys in 1 year or less is not realistic and that is my point... the guitar alone is like it's own little orchestra that can do many things... it is without a doubt imo the most played instrument but because of that people think it's easy to learn... I equate it to poker... because everyone plays Texas Hold Em doesn't mean they all know what they are doing or are good...
As for Bazooka's experience.. even if it is less then your years... he can give a informed opinion about a novice learning both instruments based on his experiences with both... and his opinion is both are difficult to play/learn/master... and my point with that is that you only play one instrument and not both so how can you give a opinion on one you know nothing about? ... But I can see why you brought up blues since you played with blues players... blues is a simple form of music compared to classical,flamenco ,jazz and yes Metal. It's not difficult to learn or master but it is difficult to be great like the legends.
But anyways the guitar, and any instrument for that matter, is not easy to learn just because a 16 yr old makes it look easy... and if you think so for those who claim they can do the same in a year or less... go ahead and try then get back to us... I think your opinion will change...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Now this girl is insane lol is there anything asians cannot do better then us? ... to play a paginnini piece (violin piece for those who don't know) on a guitar with such a wide fretboard and with such little hands she has at those speeds and for almost 8 minutes long with no mistakes is pretty incredible.... I think she is only 16 or so.. she certainly didn't learn this in 1 year:
I liked it.. 3/4's of the way.. never heard of him but then again he died early no? .. anyways didn't like the ending when they were playing nonsense.. but before that when he was on the sax..was very good... was in the 60's no? so i wouldn't be surprised if he learned breathing techniques from yoga or something... lungs of steel thats for sure... sax for some reason never does it for me... but I can appreciate his talent...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
he gets pretty out there..thats fo dam sure...
he was in a car accident and lost the use of one of his arms..not sure which..that was after these videos...but he kept on playin..some say better than before..those live shows werent his best...his albums do him justice..
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: sax for some reason never does it for me...says mach
aye, and theres the rub
I'll clarify.. it doesn't do it for me like guitar, piano, violin etc.. do it for me.. I guess I like string and keyboard instruments more.. but that's not to say I don't like sax at all.. there's some sax i like like Charlie Parker, the sax playing on floyd albums, sax playing on Eddie and the Cruisers soundtrack etc...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Triumph blast from the past! Rock and roll machine faster than you ever seen Rock and Roll Machine All those eyes just lookin' at you ....
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
