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Author Topic: Why are you a Conservative?
Gordon Bennett
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A progressive.

quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Gordon- since it's pretty clear you don't consider yourself a conservative, what would you label yourself?



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Lockman
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Would you consider John F. Kennedy a conservative ?

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Let's Go METS!!!

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
bdgee...you have got to be the dumbest self proclaimed intellectual that I have ever come across...maybe you should have actually read what was written in this thread before bringing up citizenship...which, by the way, has nothing to do with the title of this thread either!

Oh, my. A fool that can't (or won't) read.

ENOUGH OF THAT INSULTING TRASH!

Imagine that...a moron calling me a fool...and then complaining about insults...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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Gordon Bennett
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Do you mean "conservative" as in "resistant to change?" If so, then yes; on some important issues, he was indeeed.

Looking at the big picture, however, he presented a fairly progressive outlook in my view.

quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Would you consider John F. Kennedy a conservative ?



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Gordon Bennett
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What has this got to do with being a Conservative?

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
Imagine that...a moron calling me a fool...and then complaining about insults...



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Lockman
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So you would say he was a moderate conservative?

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buckstalker
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About as much as Citizenship...


quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
What has this got to do with being a Conservative?

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
Imagine that...a moron calling me a fool...and then complaining about insults...




--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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Gordon Bennett
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He leaned left on some issues; right on others.

By today's standards, you could make the argument that he was a Libertarian.

Overall, he came across as a reasonable, free-thinking person.

quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
So you would say he was a moderate conservative?



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Gordon Bennett
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Reasonable arguments just aren't that important to you, are they...

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
About as much as Citizenship...



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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buckstalker
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Sure they are...answer the questions that I posed to you earlier in the thread...then I can respond.


quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
Reasonable arguments just aren't that important to you, are they...

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
About as much as Citizenship...




--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
bdgee...you have got to be the dumbest self proclaimed intellectual that I have ever come across...maybe you should have actually read what was written in this thread before bringing up citizenship...which, by the way, has nothing to do with the title of this thread either!

Oh, my. A fool that can't (or won't) read.

ENOUGH OF THAT INSULTING TRASH!

Imagine that...a moron calling me a fool...and then complaining about insults...
IT'S TIME YOU STOPPED THIS TRASH!

There is no excuse for your inclination to insult and name calling.

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Gordon Bennett
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I must have overlooked your questions directed to me. What are they?

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
...answer the questions that I posed to you earlier in the thread...



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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bdgee
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If he knows?????
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buckstalker
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No...I do not understand how you think...that is for sure.

You state that you don't believe that it is OK to kill babies...yet the party that you belong to ENDORSES it, and then hides behind it with statements like (we don't want the government to have a place in our bedrooms and family planning). The planning should start before conception...NOT after. Lets say that I have a 1 year old that just doesn't work with my family plan any longer...should I legally be allowed to murder that child?...should the government have a place in that decision? It all goes back to the accountability issue...

As far as the capital punishment issue...I have wrestled with that for many years now and am still rather torn on the issue...here's why.
If someone ATTEMPTED to injure or kill one of my children, friends, or family members I would have no qualms about killing that person in an instant and, I would have no regrets about doing so...therefore if someone DID kill one of my children, family members or friends I would probably feel the same way. How about you?

quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
I must have overlooked your questions directed to me. What are they?

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
...answer the questions that I posed to you earlier in the thread...




--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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bdgee
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First of all, that is a lie!

To my knowledge (which I will match with yours with one hand tied behind it to get a more nearly fair fight), no political party of any nation has stated that "it is alright to kill babies" and you claiming such is the case is disgusting and insulting..

That is a cheap disgusting assault on the integrity and morals of those you don't bother to listen to. They quite rightfully resent your ignorance and self serving arrogance.

Who gave you the childish notion it was necessary to "belong" to a political party in order to have ideas and make statements?

When you, by contorting some impossible moral situation, accuse, intend to accuse, or allow to be accused (which is one of your most common tactics to avoid actual consideration of a topic), others of that imorallity, you are insulting and you are intending it as an insult.

Again, no one, that is sane, is advocating killing babies. If you can't get over that purely auto-generated falacy you keep ranting, maybe you belong with those restricted, by clause, from inclusion with those referred to in the previous sentence.

When you equate killing in order to protect yours or another persons life to calculated killing of someone, however mean or evil, while they cannot harm another, you have intentionally defied reason and admitted you are not restricted by morals.

You need to stop declaring what your hate targets (that is anyone not getting their ideas from the RNC directly or from one of their organs, like the New York Post or Fox News or Fat Rush, the Doper and Hypocrit) think, as you are mostly wrong and always out of line.

It just ain't polite and mannerly, you see.

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Gordon Bennett
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Hi retiredat49,

I have weeded the only three questions you asked me out of your longer post. The answers are below...

quote:
Lets say that I have a 1 year old that just doesn't work with my family plan any longer...should I legally be allowed to murder that child?
No.

quote:
...should the government have a place in that decision?
I doubt you would even tell the government you had decided to kill your one-year old in the first place. So... no.

quote:
If someone ATTEMPTED to injure or kill one of my children, friends, or family members I would have no qualms about killing that person in an instant and, I would have no regrets about doing so...therefore if someone DID kill one of my children, family members or friends I would probably feel the same way. How about you?
If someone killed my family would I want to murder the person that did it? Absolutely! In fact, that would be probably be my first thought. Then I would come to terms with the fact that the lengthy prison time I would have to serve for premeditated murder wouldn't bring my family back. (It's called logic and reason.)

I wouldn't want the State to kill them for me either. "A murder for a murder" doesn't work.

On the other hand, if I was at the scene of the crime and had to kill the perpetrator in self-defense, I would not hesitate to do so. But that wouldn't be murder.

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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buckstalker
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Gordon

Well I guess that we agree for the most part...but abortion to me is still nothing short of murder and I for one will never vote for a candidate that is pro-abortion. As far as capital punishment goes, I'm not sure what I would do if someone murdered one of my children or family members and I hope and pray that I never do. My reaction would probably be the same as yours, but I would hope that the perpetrator would at the very least serve HARD time...not receive a college education, comfy prison cell, full medical benefits, a gym to work out in, and the freedom of civil rights. IMO the prison system is way too lenient on hardened criminals and the judicial system is not consistent enough...life in prison should mean...life in prison!

bdgee...I live near Detroit and I would rather walk through the east side of downtown, alone at night, unarmed, than to listen to your self serving blithering bullsh*t...it would be far more educational, and much less dangerous...
You are on ignore from now on, because I can no longer tolerate your ignorance and your hatred towards anyone here who disagrees with you...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:

bdgee...I live near Detroit and I would rather walk through the east side of downtown, alone at night, unarmed, than to listen to your self serving blithering bullsh*t...it would be far more educational, and much less dangerous...
You are on ignore from now on, because I can no longer tolerate your ignorance and your hatred towards anyone here who disagrees with you...

Many thanks Mr. insensate and obtuse....

You can only imagine how much I'll appreciate that, not having to put up with your hatred and immature obsenaties and name calling and rudeness.

If ever there comes the day when you gain enough sophistication, intellect, and decent manners to talk meaningfully and respectfully to a high school drop-out, come again (though I can't imagine you will ever reach such lofty goals).

'Til then (and only then), cest la vie.

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Gordon Bennett
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If every person who was against a woman's right to choose was required to adopt twenty of the resulting children, would you sign up, RA49?

No candidate is pro-abortion. However, some thankfully respect women as human beings with the same exclusive right to govern their own bodies as men have in a so-called "free country."

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
Well I guess that we agree for the most part...but abortion to me is still nothing short of murder and I for one will never vote for a candidate that is pro-abortion.



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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bdgee
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Gord....,

He isn't able to think or speak rationally on the subject. You are wasting your time. Feeding pearls to swine, as they say.

Pose too many serious and difficult quandries and he breaks down and starts name calling and cussin.

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Lockman
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Is suicide against the law?
If a person wants to take their own life should they be allowed to do so?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Lockman
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Gorden I'll direct this to you because you started this thread.

Is your definition of conservate biased by a dislike of George Bush, much the same as the group that disliked Clinton?

I myself distrust government. It's a necessary evil though. I agree that the less government in my life the better, the sooner people realize that all politicans are about being re-elected the sooner we can change our political landscape
and make people realize they are responsible for themselves and not rely on some government lacky.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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bdgee
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Do you "want" suicide to be against the law?

In either case, why?

Is your stance based on practicality, religion, what?

If it is a matter of religion, then maybe you should be minding your own business, unless the religion of the person wanting or contemplating suicide is the exact same as yours.

It could be quite financially benificial to a family for a person to choose suicide and is not at all out of line with natural social practices (check out E.O.Wilson's Sociobiology and learn about aunts and uncles and gene protection).

I don't, personally, think that I can know the particulars of any particular case to make a decision about suicide for some other person. I certainly don't think some agency of the Government can do that reasonably or fairly.

Dreaming up scenarios where suicide may be horrible or wonderful won't answer the question. It is simply best to ignore some questions, because there is no possible definitive answer.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Is suicide against the law?
If a person wants to take their own life should they be allowed to do so?

I believe at the present time attempting suicide is against the laws of the USA.

I didn't quite understand your answer to the second part of the question. Did you answer yes or no?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Gordon Bennett
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My definition of "conservative" today is anyone that supports the radical warmongering agendas of "The Project for a New American Century."

These "evildoers" are the "conservatives" that are setting the fearful tone and policy of this country (and beyond).

Thus, they are the true enemies of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; a greater long-term threat to this country and the world than any foreign "terrorist" will ever be:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz


quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Gorden I'll direct this to you because you started this thread.

Is your definition of conservate biased by a dislike of George Bush, much the same as the group that disliked Clinton?

I myself distrust government. It's a necessary evil though. I agree that the less government in my life the better, the sooner people realize that all politicans are about being re-elected the sooner we can change our political landscape
and make people realize they are responsible for themselves and not rely on some government lacky.



--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Lockman
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I didn't see Sen. Liebermans name on that list?

Any reason he's not there?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Gordon Bennett
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Lieberman's not a signer (go to the page and see for yourself).

You'll also notice George W. Bush isn't one either. (Jeb is, however.)

I DID however forget to include William Kristol, the PNAC Chairman.

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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Lockman
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Oh I'm sorry the list is from the website New American Century.

Why isn't Lieberman a member?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Gordon Bennett
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There are many strong supporters that aren't stated "members," probably in order to appear neutral for political reasons. (GWB and Rove are good examples of that.)

Did you notice Scooter Libby is still on the list? Perhaps he can vote from prison. LOL

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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bdgee
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I think you are wrong about suicide being illegal in the U.S. I think there is no Federal lw on the subject and only a few states have considered the possibility of making suicide a crime.

I didn't answer your question, but presented the possibility that it doesn't need to be considered and probably shouldn't.

It is always possible to pose questions like. "Should suicide be illegal?", but that doesn't mean they need an answer.

How about the question, "Should it be against the law to have sexual relations with a person of a different race?" Isn't that a request to dictate social and racial norms by using the law?

All too often, people want the law to make criminal anything they disapproave of and they disapprove because of religion or habit or whatever and not because it would be a benifit to the Country or the society.

Who would benifit from a law making suicide illegal?

Anyway, exactly what would be the punishment you would met out to the perpetrators who break your law against suicide?

There is an old "rule" about criminal statutes that usually holds true. It isn't the statute that declares a thing an offense that matters, it is the description in the statutes that lays out the punishments for the offense that is the actual instrument of law. Make it a crime to commit suicide and, even with detailed descriptions for the punishment, there is no one to punish.

It's like f-rting in the wind or p-ssing in the ocean......it doesn't amount to much.

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Hannibull
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yeah you wouldn't want the cops to come and arrest your dead body lol
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Gordon Bennett
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Welcome to America, where there are so many laws, everyone's a criminal!

[Big Grin]

--------------------
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a
little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
If every person who was against a woman's right to choose was required to adopt twenty of the resulting children, would you sign up, RA49?

"Here's a new concept...hold people accountable for their own decisions and teach them to raise their own children...or give them up for adoption...the last time I checked, the waiting list to adopt a child from this country was 5 years".

No candidate is pro-abortion. However, some thankfully respect women as human beings with the same exclusive right to govern their own bodies as men have in a so-called "free country."

"Do those same candidates respect babies as human beings with the same exclusive right to govern their own bodies"?

quote:
Originally posted by retiredat49:
Well I guess that we agree for the most part...but abortion to me is still nothing short of murder and I for one will never vote for a candidate that is pro-abortion.




--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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ruthie
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I agree with retiredat49 and others, The phrase "a woman's right to choose" sounds like such a simple thing, but it is no such thing. No one is against a woman's right to choose when it comes to things that doesn't harm another human being. But, when a woman's right to choose ends with an innocent life being taken, then there is a whole new element involved here. If more people understood the whole concept of abortion and all that is involved with this (supposed) simple procedure, I think fewer would condone it. So many women who make that decision out of fear or poverty or a number of reasons (and my heart hurts for them), then later in life have children, and wish they could go back and undo that choice, will suffer undue pain from that earlier decision. Most who dissagree with abortion do not do so because of an arrogant attitude against women but bacause they realize the amazing value of prescious innocent lives.
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buckstalker
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Well said ruthie...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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