quote:Originally posted by Persia: Special treatment? Why? For oil?
Cultural and religious (Wahabist) Saudia Arabia were the pilar of Al Qaeda, don't forget that.
Oil, the fact that Saudia Arabia is the Islamic holy land, and the fact that while the leadership of Saudia Arabia is our ally, they still have to deal with their internal religious leaders.
The Saudia crown has to tread lightly, and we should recognize that and give special treatment or we are going to end up with a religious anti-american zellot in charge over there.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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The only Saudi's that are "pro-USA" are the Saudi Crown and the oil and business part of the Saudi's. All the rest of the people want the Americans out. And the rest of the people count for a vast majority.
What do you think will happen when this king dies? Saudi Arabia will be a chaos.
I think it's time for the US to find other new reliable allies in the Middle East.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Supper time......bye yaw'll......
"I don't know the details, NR, I wouldn't start out with preconcieved goals."
...And that pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it Bdgee? You are so quick to claim Bush is doing it all wrong, yet you admit you wouldn't even know where to begin.
I didn't say I wouldn't know where to begin, doofus, I said I wouldn't start out with preconcieved notions and refuse to consider others.
Don't misquote me again!
... The point is, you don't have the information Bush has, and thus, you are nothing but an arm-chair quarterback screaming at the top of your lungs that "nazi Bush" is always doing it all wrong.
No one has the information Bush has because he hasn't had Cheney and Rumsfield make it up yet.
Why don't you get off the damned cheer leading game for the American NAZI PARTY and grow up.
You can't resist calling people anti-american anytime they don't kiss A$$ like you do to the lies of the White House. Speaking freely IS NOT un-american and speaking to control speach, as you and your handlers from the Party want is un-american.
Read and pay attention to the Constitution, not the idiocy spewing from Fat Rush the Doper and our own leader by Court order, The Great Prevaricator.
Are you simple too ignorant and lame brained to not realize you are constantly labeling and name calling anyone not goose stepping to these thugs and draft dodger's demands?
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one must ask oneself if osamabinalivetoolong wasn't given preferential treatemet (i.e. not hunted down like arabid dog) PRIOR to 9-11 for two reasons,,
a) he was a member of the Saudi Royal family....
b) he was (historically) our agent in the Afghan Russian war...
it will be a shame for the millions of innocent and decent people in Iran if the Iranian govt doesn't cease and desist on
uranium ENRICHMENT...
we cannot allow more nuclear proliferation... we already have too much...
it doesn't matter if you are for peace or war...
it can't be allowed...
there is no question about INTEL here... the Iranians say they are doing it and "peaceful enrichment" is not an option... enrichment is enrichment
they want nuclear fuel for electricity generating reactors? they can get it from Russia... and ship it back when it's spent... good business for everybody....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I think it is time for the world to put the nukes in the trash can and that includes us. I know that is not a very profound statement. Since all rational people feel that way . The profound statement is someone with a way to do it. I am sure that Iranians feel that there only protection in this world is to have a bomb to. When you think the whole thing over it is sad
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Yeah bond006... I'm sure if the big bad boogie man America gave up all it's nukes that the nations of Earth would one by one give up theirs too.... Sheesh, you people are unreal.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: one must ask oneself if osamabinalivetoolong wasn't given preferential treatemet (i.e. not hunted down like arabid dog) PRIOR to 9-11 for two reasons,,
a) he was a member of the Saudi Royal family....
b) he was (historically) our agent in the Afghan Russian war...
it will be a shame for the millions of innocent and decent people in Iran if the Iranian govt doesn't cease and desist on
uranium ENRICHMENT...
we cannot allow more nuclear proliferation... we already have too much...
it doesn't matter if you are for peace or war...
it can't be allowed...
there is no question about INTEL here... the Iranians say they are doing it and "peaceful enrichment" is not an option... enrichment is enrichment
they want nuclear fuel for electricity generating reactors? they can get it from Russia... and ship it back when it's spent... good business for everybody....
Glass, I agree, enrichment is not an option.
The problem with the whole Russia deal is that it was already proposed from the beginning, and all we did was waste time. Iran was just stalling then, and they are doing the same thing now, by bringing up that as an option. Nuclear weapons were the intention from the very beginning.
The facilities are completed and the process is beginning. It is no longer a question of if Iran will have nukes. It is only a matter of when and whether or not the world is going to DO something about it.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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It remains a fact...they lied about WMDs in Iraq.
I don't care what you think you found in Iraq, the only "proof" we have of any WMDs is the word of the White house. Atomic radiation can be found in armor piercing ammo and that is NOT just US ammo. Such a finding IS NOT evidence of WMDs.
There were no WMDs in Iraq and we have proof of that.
Member Rated: posted 07-02-2006 21:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah bond006... I'm sure if the big bad boogie man America gave up all it's nukes that the nations of Earth would one by one give up theirs too.... Sheesh, you people are unreal.
So you don't think it would be a better world with out nukes?
If I had my way we would settle things with swords again. That was real killing the blood got on you and you knew you did it better that than than a wimp desk killer that thinks he has the ansewer and trying to be macho with his pencile. And everybody would go and do there time like a draft and we would see just who the real Americans were and who the un committed were. This is exactly why I don't talk war in a bar most people anymore have never been but they all know about it. lol
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The usa has nukes ,, near my house trident subs cary 146 warheads ready to float up to anyones front door. The usa has poison gasses and biological poisons... stored in hermiston oregon. The same type given to sadam to kill his (own) people the Kurds. donald rumsfields visit to sadam in 82 was to peddle pison gasses from phamisutical comanysthat he was working for.. at the request of the regan admin. US troops on the ground in Iraq in 82 83 worked for sadam gassing the Iranian soldiers. Iran must want nukes to
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A newspaper in Iran says it's holding a competition for cartoons about the Holocaust. The Iranian newspaper says it wants to test whether the West will apply the same principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it has to the caricatures of Muhammad. The paper calls the contest a reaction to European newspapers' publication of Danish cartoons of Muhammad -- drawings that have triggered violent protests across the Islamic world. Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said in a speech aired on state radio Tuesday that the cartoons were part of a "conspiracy by Zionists who were angry because of the victory of Hamas" in Palestinian elections. [AP]
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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The people of religiously dominated governments have no concept of government propaganda not being religious and sacred and therefore correct beyond question. To Moslems, what is said here and in Denmark must be government propaganda.
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: Posted buy natural resources
Member Rated: posted 07-02-2006 21:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah bond006... I'm sure if the big bad boogie man America gave up all it's nukes that the nations of Earth would one by one give up theirs too.... Sheesh, you people are unreal.
So you don't think it would be a better world with out nukes?
If I had my way we would settle things with swords again. That was real killing the blood got on you and you knew you did it better that than than a wimp desk killer that thinks he has the ansewer and trying to be macho with his pencile. And everybody would go and do there time like a draft and we would see just who the real Americans were and who the un committed were. This is exactly why I don't talk war in a bar most people anymore have never been but they all know about it. lol
The world would be a better place without nukes but it is naive to think that somehow if America would just give up it's nukes first, the rest of the world would follow suit.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: Posted buy natural resources
Member Rated: posted 07-02-2006 21:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah bond006... I'm sure if the big bad boogie man America gave up all it's nukes that the nations of Earth would one by one give up theirs too.... Sheesh, you people are unreal.
So you don't think it would be a better world with out nukes?
If I had my way we would settle things with swords again. That was real killing the blood got on you and you knew you did it better that than than a wimp desk killer that thinks he has the ansewer and trying to be macho with his pencile. And everybody would go and do there time like a draft and we would see just who the real Americans were and who the un committed were. This is exactly why I don't talk war in a bar most people anymore have never been but they all know about it. lol
The world would be a better place without nukes but it is naive to think that somehow if America would just give up it's nukes first, the rest of the world would follow suit.
I think "naive" is what someone would have to be that hasn't noticed that certain people here NEVER waver from attacking and calling "naive" (and unamerican and traitors and etc.) anyone that questions whatever is the latest lie out of the White House or any of the simple minded he-man approaches to diplomacy that the Party fosters..
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Natural Resourses, Where in my post did I ever say we should give up ours first? I said that we should be willing to give them up. So far any attempt by all the super powers is I will keep mine and you give up yours that will not work, and you know it. And so far every sham program has been on those lines. I hate to say this but in reality nukes are hear and are not going away,I can wish but as long as people want control there will be people that want the superior weapon and people willing to use it. Like Pat Robinson and those of his ilk.
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As far as Iran goes it is very simple. They do not like us and we do not like them. We have nukes and they want them. They are willing to die to have them how many of us are willing to die to stop them? They are committed to god and country and have proved it and gave there lives very freely to that end. 70% of this country are flag wavers committed to fast food and television,that want somebody to do there fighting for them and for there sons. If it is one thing this president has brought out in this country, is all his supporters that think like him,I will stay home and make money and you can due the dirty work. If somebody catches on to me I will back stab them and discredit them until they are not a threat to me any more.
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What a really dumb and out of place statement you are making.
First, I don't see anyone but you saying of anyone that they don't give a ----.
And, second, contrary to your claims (though I have to disagree with any hope of practicality in some of the proposed "solutions"), I sure don't note any lack of suggestions or ideas or honest sincerity.
Now for that absured failure at logic you think is so cute, "Who are we then to criticize this government? Maybe they just know what's best for us." - - -
We are the the people who OWN this government, It is ours. We do not exist to serve the Government, it exists by our will and at our whim and it serves us. THAT'S WHO WE ARE TO CRITICIZE!
Perhaps you are from the mid-east and the concept of a free people who form a government to serve them is foreign to your notions of societal structure. I don't know. Where ever you are, where ever you came from, and however you came to be posting opinions about this society, you need to learn something. WE hold far far far deeper in our souls the fact that government is there solely to serve the people (and NEVER the people to serve the government, except by choice) than most religious people do their faith in their God.
So how about not trying cheap attempts to use falacious arguments to belittle the people who have honorably and thoughtfully tried to participate in a serious subject of discussion.
Learn to appreciate the fruit that falls from our tree of free and open debate and stop abusing the process to reach a goal you want through skewed techniques we don't accept. Carefully constructed logical arguments are not that difficult if you only half try.
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More proof Iran is another religion-of-peace i.e. Muslim nation:
(ASSIST News Service) - An Iranian newspaper said Tuesday it would hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West extends the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide as it did to the caricatures of Muhammad. Reuters reported that the Brussels-based Conference of European Rabbis (CER) denounced the idea and urged the Muslim world to do likewise.
Hamshahri's Davoud Kazemi, who is in charge of the contest, told Reuters that each of the 12 winners would have their cartoons published and receive two gold coins (worth about $140 each) as a prize. Associated Press (AP) reported that Hamshahri, which is one of Iran's largest newspapers, said the contest is a reaction to European newspapers' publication of Danish cartoons of Muhammad, which have led to demonstrations, boycotts, and attacks on European embassies across the Islamic world. Several people have been killed.
AP reported the newspaper said the contest would be launched Monday and co-sponsored by the House of Caricatures, a Tehran exhibition center for cartoons. The paper and the cartoon center are owned by the Tehran Municipality, which is dominated by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, well-known for his opposition to Israel.
Ahmadinejad, who was Tehran's mayor until being elected president in June, provoked outcries last year when he said on separate occasions, the AP reported, that Israel should be "wiped off the map" and the Holocaust was a "myth."
Iran said last month it would sponsor a conference to examine the scientific evidence supporting the Holocaust, an apparent attempt to give voice to Holocaust deniers.
Hamshahri invited foreign cartoonists to enter the competition.
"Does the West extend freedom of expression to the crimes committed by the United States and Israel, or an event such as the Holocaust? Or is its freedom only for insulting religious sanctities?" the AP reported Hamshahri wrote, referring to the cartoons depicting Muhammad.
In Paris, CER president Joseph Sitruk, who is also Chief Rabbi of France, told Reuters, "The Iranian regime has plummeted to new depths if it regards the deaths of six million Jews as a matter for humor or to score cheap political points.
"Sadly, we are not surprised by this action," he said, recalling Ahmadinejad's comments last year.
In a statement issued by the CER, which represents chief rabbis from over 40 European countries, Reuters reported Sitruk said the Iranian government menaced Jews and the whole international community. Sitruk noted that European religious leaders had condemned the publication of images likely to offend believers' feelings.
"This is a test for the Muslim world to react immediately to condemn their own co-religionists in Iran for such obscene behavior as we condemned those who sought to insult them," he said.
The cartoons were first published by a Danish newspaper in September. As Muslim protests mounted, numerous European newspapers have reprinted them in recent days in the name of free expression, provoking wider and angrier protests.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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