posted
Glassman: you say liberals wanted to negotiate with terrorists: that's twisting the truth..
Art: How? Some here are suggesting we should understand and reason with them, correct the thigs we did to make them unhappy, etc. I have heard many liberals say this.
i have only heard people suggest that diplomacy would prevail. no-one has sugested negotiating with terrorists....you are misinterpreting...
the FACTS: NO WMD were in Iraq...right out of the Pentagon itself....PERIOD...it was a scam..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Glassman:...the strange part here Art, is that oil costs twice what it did before this war andour budget deficit was under control....
not exactly looking like we are gonna have a bull market this year is IT? but peace is breaking out and we are winning? LOL
Art: Oil would have headed up regardless as you well know (and have posted to this effect).
China, Russia, and Asia have recently been using increased oil, as have the US. Demand is exceeding production. Guess what happens as a result? I'll tell you. Liberals say, as you do, that the war in Iraq is to blame - they obviously don't understand supply and demand concepts.
Liberals won't let us drill in a tiny wasteland portion of Alaska. Again they don't understand what supply and demand means.
Glassman: China is the only pace where demand is up...you aren't keeping up with the markets...
Art: No, you are wrong and I am right, though I did leave out India's increased use of oil. Asian countries are the main increased users of oil - the US consumption has actually been relatively stable in recent years. World demand for oil has increased rapidly in the last five years. Has nothing to do with Iraq as you wrongly suggested, does it?[/B]
Glasman: there is plenty of oil, this price increase is due to a crashing dollar, which is being instigated in an economic war with China...which MAY or MAY NOT have anything to do with Iraq..
Art: Right, and Social Security is in fine shape. Let me get this straight - you are saying the current supply of gas is plentifull?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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What I propose is a spiritual revolution. -His Holiness the Dalai Lama -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And, that is what i feel is the answer - I said a higher level of consciousness. same thing- a spiritual revolution cam bring the masses to a higher level of consciousness....so there is an answer for the mess we have created.
How do we do it?
I am writing a book on the subject as my part on it...
Maybe, i will do more...but YES that is the answer...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Glassman: you say liberals wanted to negotiate with terrorists: that's twisting the truth..
Art: How? Some here are suggesting we should understand and reason with them, correct the thigs we did to make them unhappy, etc. I have heard many liberals say this.
i have only heard people suggest that diplomacy would prevail. no-one has sugested negotiating with terrorists....you are misinterpreting...
the FACTS: NO WMD were in Iraq...right out of the Pentagon itself....PERIOD...it was a scam..
What is the difference between diplomacy and negotiation in settling differnces?
I never said that WMD were found in Iraq after the invasion. I only said, as eveyone acknowledges, that Saddam had WMD, and used them, in the past.
All we know is that none have yet been found in Iraq - no one can say that we will never find them in Iraq, Syria, or Lebanon. What is your point in this?
Why didn't anyone question my saying that the Israelis killed Arafat?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: What I propose is a spiritual revolution. -His Holiness the Dalai Lama -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And, that is what i feel is the answer - I said a higher level of consciousness. same thing- a spiritual revolution cam bring the masses to a higher level of consciousness....so there is an answer for the mess we have created.
How do we do it?
I am writing a book on the subject as my part on it...
Maybe, i will do more...but YES that is the answer...
Maybe love is the answer? Or, at least more sex.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
ALBERT EINSTEIN: "A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Art: Right, and Social Security is in fine shape. Let me get this straight - you are saying the current supply of gas is plentifull?
gas and oil are two separate things Art...
crude supplies have been plentiful Art....
The recent upsurge of gas prices is directly a result of increaseed world market oil demand relative to supply. How is this false?
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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A spiritual revolution brings awareness, awareness that is astronomical.
Each being is as is due to conditioning as conditioned by genetics or by environment. In that mybrid, there is a god essence that wants to break free. We are all in chains and to break free is beyond words. As we raise our consciousness, reality is transparent versus the rosy colored glasses reflection.
Maybe, I should quit my full time job and speed this book up.
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quote:Originally posted by Lucy Lastic: ALBERT EINSTEIN: "A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
Maybe love is the answer. Or, at least more sex.
Actually, love bonding seems to be accompanied by greater quantum unity or entanglement. One result is empathic unity. Greater ESP and other psychic phenomena seem more likely between loved kin and loved non-kin.
However, love is balanced by hate, in fluctuating parity over time, as a natural strange attractor of the universe. This is associated with the separateness of particles - repulsion - just like attraction between things is asscoited with love. Love will never conquer hate, and hate will never snuff out love - both are essential processes in the universe - ultimately, both are equally good. Godmand the devil are partners - part of the same universal process.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: actually, Art, the market is much more coplicated..
you see, the dollar dropped in value...and this made oil drop in value to the sellers...so they raised the price...
the reason the dollar dropped is because people don't freakin like US anymore...
True, but the rise in oil prices has been at a greater rate than the rate of devaluation of the dollar and increased supply of oil would compensate for any devalution of the dollar
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
Art: However, love is balanced by hate Lucy: no, love is balanced by fear. hate is ignorance and unnecessary. (you love me, right?) more sex is good.
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quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: A spiritual revolution brings awareness, awareness that is astronomical.
Each being is as is due to conditioning as conditioned by genetics or by environment. In that mybrid, there is a god essence that wants to break free. We are all in chains and to break free is beyond words. As we raise our consciousness, reality is transparent versus the rosy colored glasses reflection.
Maybe, I should quit my full time job and speed this book up.
Very poetic expression - you should continue to write.
What you are saying is true, but it is overgeneralized and abstract. It needs to be fleshed out with more specific ideas, and this is very difficult. You can only go so far with vague abstract generalizations.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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thinkmoney: hate is delusional. It is manifested here on this earth plane so that beings can experience growth. Our essence is god and god is all good. Earth is bipolar.
Art: So we have God, who is the source of love and morality, as separate from the earth or material expression, and hate is only in the domain of the material.
How does love and morality, outside the material, interact with the separate hate and evil, intrinsic to the material? And how does causality work to meld the duality of existence, and does this not then make the duality a unity, so that God is hate and evil as well as love and morality?
No way.
The universe, material as well as non-material, is unifed but this unity is also divided into separate events occurring along bipolar dimensions.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Amazing..I actually apprecaite your input regarding..I need specifics. I agree.
Art..do you love anyone, really love? Love changes perspective deeply.
I love my kids and I fear for their security but as I grow I fear less.. all on this earthplane know fear or we wouldnt be here. But to accept fear as real is delusional. I chhose to grow and expand in love and not be constrcted by fear. fear has many forms, of which hate, anger are some.
What is real is the love I feel for my kids and to a lesser degree for my husband and others . All else is irrelevant ot who I am..
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God is love. Morality is man-made.. Hate is delusional because it is self created by our genetics and enviroment. When we hate, thatt fear is inside us. So, thats why a spiritual revolution is the answer.
hate is internal and needs expression by turning inwards ( self abuse, addiction, etc.) or by turning outwards (war, violence, abuse of others, etc).
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we need duality to experience the earth plane and grow as spiritual beings. This earht plane provides us that opportunity. It seems real but ultimately only god - love- energy is real. There is no good or bad, only our judgment. we are imperfect beings so our experiences create this duality for us to grow.
this earth plane is our collective consciousness. When we change our perception, we change our reality.
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TM: Keep in mind, that whatever is focused on, given attention expands.
Art: Whatever is focused on involves a restriction of everyting else - rather than expanding, focusing isolates and constricts.
TM: Thats why we here o nthis earth plane to learn love.
Art: No, we learn hate equally - both are important and both yield wisdom, which is our true purpose in incarnation.
TM: The question I have is when we all reach this god consciousness, what happens?
Art: We grow closer to God in accruing wisdom over many incarantions. God is quantum computation or causality, and in wisdom we particiapte more in tune with such data processing.
TM: Big bang again?
Art: Not tonight. I have a headache.
We participate eternally - we are at once separate and growing ever closer to God while being in unity as God. Think of it as us being a neuron in the brain of God, with a separate function while also being in tune with the activity of the whole brain - this is just an analogy.
TM: And the opposite of love is FEAR, not hate. In fear we display hate, anger, etc.......
Art: Not quite true. The sequence is: Failure (loss, frustration, etc.) -> Hurt (depression, pain, etc) -> Anxiety (unconscious fear of future Failure) -> processing to achieve fulfillment (failure avoidance or succes attainment) -> plans which can vary to include escape, avoidance, attack, approach, love display, working harder, you name it -> prediction of success from plan devised -> excitement -> goal diredted effort -> evaluation of progress -> success or failure.
TM: some fear is nested in survival, but most is inappropriate and unhealthy.
Art: Any motivation/emotion is maladaptive when activated by invalid evaluations or by abnormal biology or when it leads to maladaptive expressions. Fear is not unhealthy per se.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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quote:Originally posted by Lucy Lastic: Art: However, love is balanced by hate Lucy: no, love is balanced by fear. hate is ignorance and unnecessary. (you love me, right?) more sex is good.
See my post to TM on this.
Fear is balanced by excitement, not love.
Either can give rise to aggression - we may attack out of fear of being harmed, or we may attack out of excitement over sadistic pleasure afforded by attack success.
Hate is as necesary as love.
A world of perpetual love and happiness for all is found only in La La land.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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posted
How many folks have fear instilled and as a result abuse others or themselves as a result? As a nation, we go to war, etc........
How many folks feel worthless? Is this fear real? Or is this fear instilled in them by unhealty folks/dna? Is it healthy to live fear each day? When we fear, we lose focus on who we are. why is the human psyche so warped as to experience this delusion? so , much more to say but not in this discourse.
Waht we focus on, expands. next tiem, you get a headache, keep in mind, this headache is painful and dwell on that thought constantly, and see if your headache goes away.
Or, you can choose to say. Go away and know you are ok. I bet it will go away sooner.
Or, whine all day tomorrow about all, and to all you come across, and bitch and see how many folks are affected by your whining.
Or, maybe be real positive to all..bring forth alot of positive compliments and see hopw many others are put in a good mood.
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thinkmoney: I actually appreciate your input..
Art: You must immediately stop reading my posts - your mind is in danger of ttoal corruption. If you insist on going down this path of disaster, I can send you Chapter One if you send me a PM with your e-mail.
TM: Art..do you love anyone, really love? Love changes perspective deeply.
Art: Myself. Then my family. Then my country. As most eveyone else loves. We are all narcisitic at birth, and remain so, at a basic level, all our lives. We develop on this base in different ways - some become serial killers, others become missionaries,and eveything in between.
TM: But to accept fear as real is delusional.
Art: True only when you look beyond the material - otherwise reality will bite you in the rear.
TM: What is real is the love I feel for my kids and to a lesser degree for my husband and others.
Art: Love is genetically based - see Sociobiology by Edwin O. Wilson.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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Art: Then God exists only as an abstract concept and should not be reified beyond that. Love is not a property of the universe - it is a property of living things and is the basis of moral evaluations.
However, disincarnate beings (spirits) can love and hate, and on extremely rare occasions can influence us as in apparitional manifestations.
How can they do this if there is no love or morality outside the material? They do this from processing based on past memories of their incarnate material existence only.
Spirits are all around us, coexisting with us actually, at non-material levels. They compute in personality processing like we do but the results usually do have any material manifestation - it remains in the non-material multiverse.
TM : hate is internal and needs expression by turning inwards ( self abuse, addiction, etc.) or by turning outwards (war, violence, abuse of others, etc).
Art: It can be redirected morally also - Freud's sublimation. The mother grabs, and slaps the child's behind, when the child starts to run out into the street traffic - in a sequence of love of child -> anxiety over child's failure in being hurt by a car -> blame of the child for predicted failure, running out into the road is the child's fault so that injury would be caused by the child's action -> hate as aggression directed by blame where aggression is channeled by love to protect the child -> expression of hate (based in love) in grabbing and slapping the child to instil future caution in the child to prevent running out into traffic in the future. [/QB][/QUOTE]
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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thinkmoney: we need duality to experience the earth plane and grow as spiritual beings. This earht plane provides us that opportunity. It seems real but ultimately only god - love- energy is real. There is no good or bad, only our judgment. we are imperfect beings so our experiences create this duality for us to grow.
Art: We do need duality as you say - the material as separate and the non-material in unity - Plato's duality.
TM: this earth plane is our collective consciousness. When we change our perception, we change our reality.
Art: The material is the collective present expression of God's quantum computation of the past and future in association. Our (and everything else down to the smallest particle) participation in this computation (by our personality computation or processing, and its ecxpression) is our participation in God. Our perceptions (based on innate, conditioned, creative or imaginary, non-verbal/symbol cognition, and verabl/symbol cognition process ing levels) define our reality and expressions to change that reality.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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When a mom slaps a childs butt, it is because of fear and love intermingled. She fears harm and reacts to alot of her own fears to child and also does love the child.
I would grab the child and tell in a frim voice..do not ever do that because it is danger. Mom loves you, etc.. so, not all slap, thise that do have love and fear intermingled.
For that mom to use an expression of aggression on child even in good intent, only shows her inadequacy.
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hmmmm...TM, i have two children, one NEVER got spanked at all.... no need,
the other gitted spanked a good bit.. because this one were hardahearin'....
they are both well-behaved, but when a child is running away from you in the eparking lot (giggling?)? a swat on the butt (NOT A SLAP in the face) is required sometimes..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I did not say no morality a outside of the earth plane. That is an interesting thesis.
I said morality belongs to earthplane. Is it elsewhere? Honestly, i got to search regarding that. I think there may be many planes, worlds of existence..all serve its purpose.
When i cease to exist, what happens? does al my morality fade away? I may see with clarity where I been judgmental and realize my unawareness.
Have you ever talked with anyone that speaks like...
why did you get blinds for the kitchen. shades are better. You got to have china for a formal dinner., etc... I find it unpleasant when in presence of a judgmental person.
anyways, in its own state, energy is energy .. pure but in the many worlds where it expresses itself it takes on many forms and shapes.
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I would Grab the child and assure we all safe. I have no thought to punish this child but to teach. teach the child to avoid danger.
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I dont let small children walk alone in parking lot. Too dangerous. I hold them or hold their hand at all times. I remember seeing 2 small boys running away from dad..i thought to myself..why is dad screaming at them? He should of been the adult and not let it happen in the first place.
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quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: I dont let small children walk alone in parking lot. Too dangerous. I hold them or hold their hand at all times. I remember seeing 2 small boys running away from dad..i thought to myself..why is dad screaming at them? He should of been the adult and not let it happen in the first place.
each person is different...some inherit stubbornness from their mothers..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
thinkmoney: How many folks have fear instilled and as a result abuse others or themselves as a result? As a nation, we go to war, etc........
Art: Usually fear motivates withdrawal - motivates peaceful submission and conformance. Fear only motivates aggression in desperation for survival. Fear motivates planning, and some of this plans may be attack plans to eliminate the threat (retaliation of pre-emptive attack), but these plans are enacted only when ecciytement steps in by ecvalutions of plan success These process are outside of our awareness, though at times we become aware of completed steps in these processes.
So fear motivates planning which can motivate excitement, where it is excitement that actually motivates aggression.
Now most aggression is motvated by excitement over sadistic pleasure, or instrumental gain contingent on aggressive expression (robery at gunpoint, etc.). Much abuse is sadistic, and many absued children carry the sadistic genes of their sadistic parents, and become sadsitic as adults, not so much from modeling, but from sadisitc instinct.
TM: How many folks feel worthless? Is this fear real? Or is this fear instilled in them by unhealty folks/dna?
Art: All the above. Some people are worthless. Some are born that way, some learn to be that way perhaps just from bad luck, some are not worthless but have ideas that they are - sometimes from the input of verbally abusive others but even at times because they were born with a self-deprecating tendency (inherited).
TM: Is it healthy to live fear each day? When we fear, we lose focus on who we are.
Art: All negative emotions are somatically destructive over time. I tell fearful people to carry a gun. If they are also aggressive I tell them to shoot someone every day but don't get caught. Restores their sense of self and helps solve overpopulation problems.
Look, this is the best of all possible worlds and all the bad things are necessary. Some of us live high and some live absolutely wretched lives. It all comes out in the wash if you look at the big picture.
Its like having a baby. You wish you could die during, and then say it was glorious after. We are now in the during stage.
If we understand in a wise manner, we can dispel thoughts that hurt us, and we can frequently reach contentment. It takes much wisdom and understanding.
Our valid analysis of causality and blame assessemnt is the key to happiness - this is where understanding and wisdom come in. This why we are here and is a goal for all of us. We are in school.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness.
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