posted
I think that a lot is going on in the church to take over the politics of America. The elections are going into a new era were the church has made it a moral issue and not a political one. They say all Republicans are moral and all Democrats are not. The use abortion and gay rights to justify there views. I would rather vote for a person on there morals then of leading us in the right direction on economic, health care, and tax issues. Instead we are becoming a nation ruled by the church. Many nations have fallen using this political path.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
....the funny thing is when they broke down the so called moral vote in the states with the gay rights issue on the ballots, the majority of kerry supporters voted against gay marriage also....
they have broken the numbers down even further into woman, man, age, but across repubs and dem voters this year the marriage vote failed.
therefore, a lot of this "moral vote" is why we lost is hog wash, and excuse making... some of it is valid though. Its just not the big bomb being discussed.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That may be true but was only an example. I come from a very conservative family. Its vote republican or you will go to hell. I would rather vote for the better person be it republican or democrat.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL- no i'm lying, of course its true. yes, i live in ma. and we always vote dem (not I) now we have a huge propt tax hike....right after election. idiots.
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I mean they want to put us back into the stone age. Even though science has proved so much and can continue to find new things, we want to use christian morals to stop progress. Evolution couldn't happen even though it has been proven. We can't use stem cell research. I just don't want this country to end up like Bosnia were religion caused a country to fall into genocide.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rove clearly stated that they campaigned thru the churches Keith....and he clearly stated teat he believes it made the difference....
many churche complained about the Bush/Cheney campaign requesting their membership registers for campaigning purposes...how many didn't complain?
the partial birth abortion issue is a perfect example of bait and switch... PBA is illegal, and constitutionally so, in many states...the bill passed by the US was unconstitutional, and it was DESIGNED that way to rally the voters...have you been able to find any statistics on how often it is actually performed????? and i mean from CDC or the AMA, not from the anti-abortion groups....
just as faith-based funding has been designed to promote campaigning from the pulpit....it works....
posted
Was it Shakespeare that said, in paraphrase, "God save us from the preachers and lawyers?"
Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
What gets me is those who argue that the founding fathers didn't want a seperation from the church. It is true that they were very religious men who envoked God in there thoughts. But they came from England were differences in religious views were punished by prison. They knew first hand how religion could effect politics and tried everything possible to protect freedom of religion. And the best way to protect freedom of religion is to leave it out of politics.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like I've said before, true Christianity, isn't someone that votes, just because they are republican, but for the person who believes in the same moral values! It isn't someone who grumbles about another person, wearing slacks to church! (We wear whatever we want to, as long as it is decent. That means, covering adequately!)We have a choir, who has two tone deaf people singing in it, and it fills me with joy, because they are singing with their hearts, and you can tell it!
How many times do they have to do a partial-birth abortion, for it to be wrong Glass? I believe once! I would support stem cell research, if I knew they weren't using babies that had been aborted, but there isn't any way of knowing for sure, if that is the case!
Church isn't what gets you into heaven! Jesus as Savior, does! Nothing else! Being good doesn't cut it! I'd rather have a government, that stood up for the moral values of the Bible, than one that doesn't! People hate it though, because they want to be in control of their lives, and not give God control! The people who believe in moral values, are hated right now, by the left wing! Why? Because just as the people that hated Jesus, had him crucified, they hate anyone who lives their lives for Him, because it gives them an excuse to live their lives, exactly the way that they want to! It makes them not have to be accountable for their actions! Personally, I want to be accountable for my actions, when I stand in front of God someday!
Hunting witches and lesbians, isn't something that MY church would do! We would share the Bible with them, and let them know that we cared about them! One of my best friends, who is a woman, had an affair with a woman! What did I do? I was in agony for her! She was married, with a little boy, and left them, and everything she had ever known! I spent eight long months, praying for her, because I love her, and she is now back with her family! We are still friends! I didn't hang her! I accepted her for who she is, and shared God's love with her! She is a Christian!
My own pastor, has opened his doors for his Amish neighbors, to come in and use his phone, night and day, (which they do, and they also use a freezer in his garage, to keep their stuff in! He pays the electric bill! If you asked him, he would give you the shirt he has on! Like I keep saying, a true Christian, spends their life trying to be like Jesus, and sharing his love with others! That is the only point I am tryng to make! I'm not sitting there with you, trying to force you to read this thread!
posted
Kate.... stem cells come from IN VITRO fertilization at fertility clinics....by the time a woman knows she is pregenant? it's too late to be used for stem cells
that's MORE lies being told in Churches by ignorant people....
they HAVE to be from in vitro...stem cells are not viable after a couple of weeks....
the definition of a stem cell is that the cells have yet to differentiate into specific types of cells, they all still have the capability to become ANYTHING.... this is just another example of what i am trying to tell you about the POLITICS of religion....these politicians are going to RUIN religion if you all let them...
wait till churches start competing for limited grant funds...churhes will be smearing other churches in order to beat the competition...i see it all the time in SCIENCE...and i KNOW for a fact that the best scientists don't always get the dough...
even Nobel Prizes are awarded under clouds of contoversey....
Arafat got a Nobel Peace Prize???????
pandora's box is open
Kate, i don't know your church, or your pastor.... i do know what you profess... i have deduced from your posts that you have the best of intentions, and i BELIEVE that you have been taken advantage of(along with several MILLION others)...that's all...
many people are now feeling like this is the time to start FORCING their religion on the rest of the world....and that IS holy war...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 12, 2004).]
posted
As I stated on other threads. Georgie got voted in to run a country that bases it's values on FREEDOM. He did so by supporting and mandating issues that take freedoms away. I believe in freedom of choice on all issues. If it is hurting no one else, I feel that it is absolutely nobodies concern what I do. Making abortion illegal is rediculous. If a teenager gets pregnant in this day and age, they have destined themselves to a life of poverty in most cases. A teen out of high school cannot possibly make enough money to live on and pay childcare expenses. I worry that the next step is the outlawing of birth control. It is in a sense, the same as abortion. I firmly believe in welfare, but if a woman is on aid, she should mandatorily have to take the birth control shot. I have seen women get pregnant on welfare just to get more money. The whole situation really chaps my ass.
[This message has been edited by Dardadog (edited November 12, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Dardadog (edited November 12, 2004).]
posted
did the repubs go after the religous vote yes,
what i stated where the facts, the majority in the country, dems included do not favor gay marriage, not taking anyones rights away...
just not giving new ones out dog, what you are talking about is the "slippery slope" argument on both sides, if bush is elected a womans right will be taken away, WON"T happen! other side.... if Kerry is elected, We will become Socialist....that WONT happen either.
I am NOT a big fan of religion (sorry kate, in an organized sense) I currently see them attempting to exert influence...its too early to know the outcome but lets hope they don't get their way.
[This message has been edited by keithsan (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posts: 9110 | From: boston, ma | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree everyone should have a choice, it is called free will! If you choose to kill an unborn child, because that is what it is; it is alive, that is your choice, but since I believe it is murder, I choose not to! For me, birth control is wrong, if it kills the egg after it has been fertilized! Aren't you guys glad your own mothers didn't abort YOU guys!
posted
Well George Carlin said it best when it came to abortion. What next, we go to jail for masterbat***, Because we killed a potential egg donor. Hate going there but it would be next to follow by some hard core pro life. I don't believe in Abortion myself. But I also don't believe that I have the right to dictate to a women what her rights are. And why should I judge her fate, that is gods duty. Do I want more crack addict babies running around, no. The population of the world is also getting out of hand. At some point in the near future, at current population rates, the world will have more people then we can produce food for. What will we do then?
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kate: I agree everyone should have a choice, it is called free will! If you choose to kill an unborn child, because that is what it is; it is alive, that is your choice, but since I believe it is murder, I choose not to! For me, birth control is wrong, if it kills the egg after it has been fertilized! Aren't you guys glad your own mothers didn't abort YOU guys!
isn't the SOUL what matters? don't you think God is capable of making all things correct?
posted
I hope he was pandering to them by being the atmost politician. Since he can't run again, thank god, maybe he will do the right thing and not what they want.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Keith, they are already running the show...
the real question is this.... is Bush sincere in his professed religious attitudes? or is he just winning votes with innuendo...
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I understand what you are saying, Keithsan! But I don't want to separate them in my own mind! If the people in our government, who called themselves "Christians" were totally sincere, I'd be behind them 100 percent, but as it is, there are a lot of people out there, who say they are, and don't really know what that word means! They are the ones that have caused problems, down through the centuries! And I don't count the President as one of those people, Glass! Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, the soul is what matters, but God also told us, He knew us, even before we were in our mothers wombs! Jeramiah! I imagine He is talking about the babies souls! Since none of us know when the soul enters the baby, which I believe is at the moment of conception, then what right do I have, to take that childs life? That is just how I believe! I am accountable for my own actions!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
OH NO the christians are coming the christians are coming! You guys are going to force us to live right! OH NOooo, we can't be forced to live right. I'm melting I'm melting!
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL Timber, it's not that simple.... what happens when the Satanist Church applies for funding?
Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I never said he has forced religion on us. He just used it for his political gain. Not that I blame him. That was the only way he would win is to get the church pastors to tell there congregations to vote Bush. Which is against the law but the church is above the law isn't it. He made the constitutional issue of gay marriage the fore front. He used the republican moral card to the max. I'm moral he isn't.
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't watch these videos, if you don't believe in abortion! If you do believe it's ok, maybe you will see why I don't believe in them, after watching them! Don't get mad at me, I'm just the messenger! http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htmPosts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Fact is glass they already do. What do ya think planned parenthood and many other orgs are. Its not like they are out to do the good for mankind. Making money by killing the unborn. These people or orgs are promoting their beliefs by means of government funding and have been for years.
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
By the way, I consider myself a christian. I just don't like the church. I been to many trying to find one in the past. I just can't believe in this, "you have to be a (insert denomination) or you won't go to heaven". I think you must live a good life, you know love they nieghbor sort of thing.
Ric
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Our pastors, told us to vote for the person that we believed would fulfill the moral issues a Christian believes in, there were no names mentioned!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kerry courted the church vote too. He did it from the pulpit. Its just that many didn't buy it. Why? Because the Dems threatened churches with lawsuits if they did any political activity in the church, and then turned around and did it themselves. And thats just one reason of many.
Posts: 474 | From: Central PA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thats how alot thought they got around the law. But being a christian they should know the difference. Just because they didn't say Bush by name they did. Of course Bush made it out that Kerry was for abortion and he said he wasn't. He just said he wouldn't overturn the law protecting womens rights. But when I pastor says you must vote for the one thats for this and against this knowing which was for and against what. In his message he told you who to vote for.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Our pastors, told us to vote for the person that we believed would fulfill the moral issues a Christian believes in, there were no names mentioned!
Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
I accepted her for who she is, and shared God's love with her! She is a Christian! 
