I think that a lot is going on in the church to take over the politics of America. The elections are going into a new era were the church has made it a moral issue and not a political one. They say all Republicans are moral and all Democrats are not. The use abortion and gay rights to justify there views. I would rather vote for a person on there morals then of leading us in the right direction on economic, health care, and tax issues. Instead we are becoming a nation ruled by the church. Many nations have fallen using this political path.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by keithsan on :
....the funny thing is when they broke down the so called moral vote in the states with the gay rights issue on the ballots, the majority of kerry supporters voted against gay marriage also....
they have broken the numbers down even further into woman, man, age, but across repubs and dem voters this year the marriage vote failed.
therefore, a lot of this "moral vote" is why we lost is hog wash, and excuse making... some of it is valid though. Its just not the big bomb being discussed.
Posted by Ric on :
That may be true but was only an example. I come from a very conservative family. Its vote republican or you will go to hell. I would rather vote for the better person be it republican or democrat.
Ric
Posted by keithsan on :
LOL- no i'm lying, of course its true. yes, i live in ma. and we always vote dem (not I) now we have a huge propt tax hike....right after election. idiots.
Posted by Ric on :
I mean they want to put us back into the stone age. Even though science has proved so much and can continue to find new things, we want to use christian morals to stop progress. Evolution couldn't happen even though it has been proven. We can't use stem cell research. I just don't want this country to end up like Bosnia were religion caused a country to fall into genocide.
Ric
Posted by glassman on :
Rove clearly stated that they campaigned thru the churches Keith....and he clearly stated teat he believes it made the difference....
many churche complained about the Bush/Cheney campaign requesting their membership registers for campaigning purposes...how many didn't complain?
the partial birth abortion issue is a perfect example of bait and switch... PBA is illegal, and constitutionally so, in many states...the bill passed by the US was unconstitutional, and it was DESIGNED that way to rally the voters...have you been able to find any statistics on how often it is actually performed????? and i mean from CDC or the AMA, not from the anti-abortion groups....
just as faith-based funding has been designed to promote campaigning from the pulpit....it works....
Posted by Art on :
Was it Shakespeare that said, in paraphrase, "God save us from the preachers and lawyers?"
Posted by glassman on :
i'm sure he did Art...
he was smarter than the average Bard...LOL
Posted by glassman on :
a very good example of how dangerous "religion" can be is the bubonic plague that decimatd Europe.
hunting witches...(probable lesbians and homosexuals) became a popular sport...
everybody knows witches keep a "portion" of their soul stored in cats...just in case...LOL
well it became dangerous to have cats around, and eventually the cats became scarce....
of course that allowed the rats and mice to become more numerous.....
the plague is carried and transmitted by rat fleas........
Posted by Ric on :
What gets me is those who argue that the founding fathers didn't want a seperation from the church. It is true that they were very religious men who envoked God in there thoughts. But they came from England were differences in religious views were punished by prison. They knew first hand how religion could effect politics and tried everything possible to protect freedom of religion. And the best way to protect freedom of religion is to leave it out of politics.
Ric
Posted by Kate on :
Like I've said before, true Christianity, isn't someone that votes, just because they are republican, but for the person who believes in the same moral values! It isn't someone who grumbles about another person, wearing slacks to church! (We wear whatever we want to, as long as it is decent. That means, covering adequately!)We have a choir, who has two tone deaf people singing in it, and it fills me with joy, because they are singing with their hearts, and you can tell it!
How many times do they have to do a partial-birth abortion, for it to be wrong Glass? I believe once! I would support stem cell research, if I knew they weren't using babies that had been aborted, but there isn't any way of knowing for sure, if that is the case!
Church isn't what gets you into heaven! Jesus as Savior, does! Nothing else! Being good doesn't cut it! I'd rather have a government, that stood up for the moral values of the Bible, than one that doesn't! People hate it though, because they want to be in control of their lives, and not give God control! The people who believe in moral values, are hated right now, by the left wing! Why? Because just as the people that hated Jesus, had him crucified, they hate anyone who lives their lives for Him, because it gives them an excuse to live their lives, exactly the way that they want to! It makes them not have to be accountable for their actions! Personally, I want to be accountable for my actions, when I stand in front of God someday!
Hunting witches and lesbians, isn't something that MY church would do! We would share the Bible with them, and let them know that we cared about them! One of my best friends, who is a woman, had an affair with a woman! What did I do? I was in agony for her! She was married, with a little boy, and left them, and everything she had ever known! I spent eight long months, praying for her, because I love her, and she is now back with her family! We are still friends! I didn't hang her! I accepted her for who she is, and shared God's love with her! She is a Christian!
My own pastor, has opened his doors for his Amish neighbors, to come in and use his phone, night and day, (which they do, and they also use a freezer in his garage, to keep their stuff in! He pays the electric bill! If you asked him, he would give you the shirt he has on! Like I keep saying, a true Christian, spends their life trying to be like Jesus, and sharing his love with others! That is the only point I am tryng to make! I'm not sitting there with you, trying to force you to read this thread!
Posted by glassman on :
most of the original settlers were in fact escaping religious persecution...
most of them were from sects MUCH stricter than the churches they were leaving...
Posted by glassman on :
Kate.... stem cells come from IN VITRO fertilization at fertility clinics....by the time a woman knows she is pregenant? it's too late to be used for stem cells
that's MORE lies being told in Churches by ignorant people....
they HAVE to be from in vitro...stem cells are not viable after a couple of weeks....
the definition of a stem cell is that the cells have yet to differentiate into specific types of cells, they all still have the capability to become ANYTHING.... this is just another example of what i am trying to tell you about the POLITICS of religion....these politicians are going to RUIN religion if you all let them...
wait till churches start competing for limited grant funds...churhes will be smearing other churches in order to beat the competition...i see it all the time in SCIENCE...and i KNOW for a fact that the best scientists don't always get the dough...
even Nobel Prizes are awarded under clouds of contoversey....
Arafat got a Nobel Peace Prize???????
pandora's box is open
Kate, i don't know your church, or your pastor.... i do know what you profess... i have deduced from your posts that you have the best of intentions, and i BELIEVE that you have been taken advantage of(along with several MILLION others)...that's all...
many people are now feeling like this is the time to start FORCING their religion on the rest of the world....and that IS holy war...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by Dardadog on :
As I stated on other threads. Georgie got voted in to run a country that bases it's values on FREEDOM. He did so by supporting and mandating issues that take freedoms away. I believe in freedom of choice on all issues. If it is hurting no one else, I feel that it is absolutely nobodies concern what I do. Making abortion illegal is rediculous. If a teenager gets pregnant in this day and age, they have destined themselves to a life of poverty in most cases. A teen out of high school cannot possibly make enough money to live on and pay childcare expenses. I worry that the next step is the outlawing of birth control. It is in a sense, the same as abortion. I firmly believe in welfare, but if a woman is on aid, she should mandatorily have to take the birth control shot. I have seen women get pregnant on welfare just to get more money. The whole situation really chaps my ass.
[This message has been edited by Dardadog (edited November 12, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Dardadog (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by keithsan on :
did the repubs go after the religous vote yes,
what i stated where the facts, the majority in the country, dems included do not favor gay marriage, not taking anyones rights away...
just not giving new ones out dog, what you are talking about is the "slippery slope" argument on both sides, if bush is elected a womans right will be taken away, WON"T happen! other side.... if Kerry is elected, We will become Socialist....that WONT happen either.
I am NOT a big fan of religion (sorry kate, in an organized sense) I currently see them attempting to exert influence...its too early to know the outcome but lets hope they don't get their way.
[This message has been edited by keithsan (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by Kate on :
I agree everyone should have a choice, it is called free will! If you choose to kill an unborn child, because that is what it is; it is alive, that is your choice, but since I believe it is murder, I choose not to! For me, birth control is wrong, if it kills the egg after it has been fertilized! Aren't you guys glad your own mothers didn't abort YOU guys!
Posted by glassman on :
Keith, they are already running the show...
the real question is this.... is Bush sincere in his professed religious attitudes? or is he just winning votes with innuendo...
Posted by Ric on :
Well George Carlin said it best when it came to abortion. What next, we go to jail for masterbat***, Because we killed a potential egg donor. Hate going there but it would be next to follow by some hard core pro life. I don't believe in Abortion myself. But I also don't believe that I have the right to dictate to a women what her rights are. And why should I judge her fate, that is gods duty. Do I want more crack addict babies running around, no. The population of the world is also getting out of hand. At some point in the near future, at current population rates, the world will have more people then we can produce food for. What will we do then?
Ric
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Kate: I agree everyone should have a choice, it is called free will! If you choose to kill an unborn child, because that is what it is; it is alive, that is your choice, but since I believe it is murder, I choose not to! For me, birth control is wrong, if it kills the egg after it has been fertilized! Aren't you guys glad your own mothers didn't abort YOU guys!
isn't the SOUL what matters? don't you think God is capable of making all things correct?
Posted by Ric on :
I hope he was pandering to them by being the atmost politician. Since he can't run again, thank god, maybe he will do the right thing and not what they want.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Keith, they are already running the show...
the real question is this.... is Bush sincere in his professed religious attitudes? or is he just winning votes with innuendo...
Posted by Kate on :
I understand what you are saying, Keithsan! But I don't want to separate them in my own mind! If the people in our government, who called themselves "Christians" were totally sincere, I'd be behind them 100 percent, but as it is, there are a lot of people out there, who say they are, and don't really know what that word means! They are the ones that have caused problems, down through the centuries! And I don't count the President as one of those people, Glass! Posted by Kate on :
Yes, the soul is what matters, but God also told us, He knew us, even before we were in our mothers wombs! Jeramiah! I imagine He is talking about the babies souls! Since none of us know when the soul enters the baby, which I believe is at the moment of conception, then what right do I have, to take that childs life? That is just how I believe! I am accountable for my own actions!
Posted by glassman on :
Kate, i pointed out to you over and over again that Bush never commits openly, and he REFUSES to admit ANY mistakes.....
when asked if he would appoint a judge to overturn Roe-v-Wade. he REFUSED to answer....
Posted by Kate on :
If Kerry would of won, would you guys think that your beliefs were being forced on ME?
[This message has been edited by Kate (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by keithsan on :
you guys are WAY into the hype....
george has been in town 4 years and i haven't had his religion FORCED upon me yet.....
where is the religion running the show? changing the law?
yes they have a voice, we all do, its democracy, or as ric says its capitalism.
if so, he would never have gotten my vote. I'm very against that partial birth abortion and there is no religion on my brain!!!!!!
Posted by timberman on :
OH NO the christians are coming the christians are coming! You guys are going to force us to live right! OH NOooo, we can't be forced to live right. I'm melting I'm melting!
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Posted by glassman on :
LOL Timber, it's not that simple.... what happens when the Satanist Church applies for funding?
Posted by Ric on :
I never said he has forced religion on us. He just used it for his political gain. Not that I blame him. That was the only way he would win is to get the church pastors to tell there congregations to vote Bush. Which is against the law but the church is above the law isn't it. He made the constitutional issue of gay marriage the fore front. He used the republican moral card to the max. I'm moral he isn't.
Posted by Kate on :
Don't watch these videos, if you don't believe in abortion! If you do believe it's ok, maybe you will see why I don't believe in them, after watching them! Don't get mad at me, I'm just the messenger! http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htm Posted by timberman on :
Fact is glass they already do. What do ya think planned parenthood and many other orgs are. Its not like they are out to do the good for mankind. Making money by killing the unborn. These people or orgs are promoting their beliefs by means of government funding and have been for years.
Posted by Ric on :
By the way, I consider myself a christian. I just don't like the church. I been to many trying to find one in the past. I just can't believe in this, "you have to be a (insert denomination) or you won't go to heaven". I think you must live a good life, you know love they nieghbor sort of thing.
Ric
Posted by Kate on :
Our pastors, told us to vote for the person that we believed would fulfill the moral issues a Christian believes in, there were no names mentioned!
Posted by Kate on :
That is why I belong to a non-denominational Bible Church Ric! Posted by timberman on :
Kerry courted the church vote too. He did it from the pulpit. Its just that many didn't buy it. Why? Because the Dems threatened churches with lawsuits if they did any political activity in the church, and then turned around and did it themselves. And thats just one reason of many.
Posted by Ric on :
Thats how alot thought they got around the law. But being a christian they should know the difference. Just because they didn't say Bush by name they did. Of course Bush made it out that Kerry was for abortion and he said he wasn't. He just said he wouldn't overturn the law protecting womens rights. But when I pastor says you must vote for the one thats for this and against this knowing which was for and against what. In his message he told you who to vote for.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Our pastors, told us to vote for the person that we believed would fulfill the moral issues a Christian believes in, there were no names mentioned!
Posted by Ric on :
It still come down to what this election really was about. A war. Afganistan was a have to case. Thats were the terrorist leader was from that attached us. But Iraq was a "might of" war. They might still have weapons, they might give them to terrorist, they might restart there programs, they might do this or do that so we must attack them. When in fact Pakistan was selling WMD's, most of the terrorist in the attack was from Saudi and there is more terrorist training camps in Iran then Iraq ever had and they are trying to build WMD's. Africa has the biggest genocide in history but no oil so who cares.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by Kate on :
Not if he tells you to use the Word of God as your guide Ric!
Posted by Kate on :
We have a family that belongs to our church, that live in Africa, as missionaries! I'm sure that they care, and so do we!
Posted by keithsan on :
whats better hmmmm....
church lobby... medical lobby.... lawyers lobby.... pharmaceutical lobby....
thems the big ones, depending on who gets elected its their lobbies help.
LOL-I'm a union teacher, vote dem vote dem be robot vote dem.
Posted by Ric on :
None, they all should be lined up and shot. I too was in the teachers union. Never agreed with them either. After Service got my BSEd in Math and Biology. I think that I had less of a chance of being killed in service, lol. Just retired now.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by keithsan: whats better hmmmm....
church lobby... medical lobby.... lawyers lobby.... pharmaceutical lobby....
thems the big ones, depending on who gets elected its their lobbies help.
LOL-I'm a union teacher, vote dem vote dem be robot vote dem.
Posted by timberman on :
I know how ya feel Keithsan. I'm a union member too. It would be ok by me if lobbying would be illegal. Other than individuals of course.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by Ric on :
Well I say line them all up and shoot them but they do have there place. I think though it should be done in a public forum. That no lobbist should be able to lobby a indiviual government agent. I think they should be on the floor and televised on C-Span so the nation knows what is being said.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 12, 2004).]
Posted by Nanny on :
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Our pastors, told us to vote for the person that we believed would fulfill the moral issues a Christian believes in, there were no names mentioned!
I am a Christian, and I certainly do not believe in killing innocent people. Now you know Bush should have made sure there were WMD's in Iraq before he bombed Bagdad. What do you think is moral about a man that has caused more people to loose jobs since the Herbert Hoover era? What do you think is moral about a man that cares more about the rich, is as so much that just the tax breaks they are given might buy our Soldiers some good equipment to fight his power war? What is moral about a man that just plain lies and stumbles so bad as he lies. You have no idea of what men with power can do. He has the power for 4 more years. But please don't ever say he has morels. He loves money and power too much to have morels.
Posted by Kate on :
President Bush, has accepted Christ as his Savior! He prays every morning, for guidance from God! That is a Christian! How do I know this? Besides reading his testimony, and seeing a documentary on him, where he openly states his beliefs, I worked with the republican headquarters, helping with the campaign, and the woman is charge, worked with him four years ago in his first campaign, one on one, and knows him and his family personally! She says that he is just as he seems, and says what he means, and means what he says! And yes, Glass, he is a human too, and makes mistakes like the rest of us, so don't start saying, "Well, dah hah, dah hah, he said there were weapons of mass destruction, where are they? He lied!"
The President, listened to everyone else, and gave the incompetent UN, six months to literally let the Iraqi terrorists, have time to move them out, sell them to France, bury them, whatever! If Saddam used them on his own people, HE USED TO HAVE THEM! Since you can't trust Saddam, you have to go look for them, before they are used again! The President believed they were there!!!! I believe they were there! Lots of people, believe they were there! The dead Iraqis that got bombed with them, saw they were there!
Posted by keithsan on :
congrats on retirement ric,
been teaching middle school gangsters (no joke) for a while now, not close to retirement yet though.....
lobbyists and lobbies have their place its just that when one side wins they complain about the groups the others pandered to...
Posted by futuresobjective on :
I see no problem with the state/gov. funding church run organizations, so long as they only service those who seek them out. If these people want to be aided in some way by these organizations, there is nothing wrong with them being state/giv funded.
Posted by Ric on :
I taught 7th grade math and science. When I got out of the service and went to college, I started out as a computer science major. But I seemed to be in the lab helping other students all the time. So I figured, teaching is the way to go. What a delusion that was. They blame the schools problem on taking the bible out of school. Thats not the problem. The problem is the parents have no interest in their child unless you try to punish them. Then they will come down on you like a brick. The principles are scared to support the teachers, the teachers are left alone in a sense to be these kids teacher, parent, and role model. But thats hard when the classroom is stuff with 30 kids. You listen to the kids talk about both parents working and they stay mostly with there grandparents. How gangs have become there family or they are alone. Our quest for the almighty dollar in this country is leaving our children behind to take care of themself. It's not the teachers place to be there parent, pastor, and counselor. We can try to teach them and try to help them as much as possible but we are not there parents.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 13, 2004).]
Posted by Ric on :
Kate
A honest, moral politician is a oxymoron. You don't become president anymore with those values. This was the dirtiest election every on both sides. The President pulled out all the stops to lie, mis-inform and distort his fellow competitor. Not that the other side did no less. They both went to far. And he did lie to the American people on the war and refuses to admit mistakes. Now hows that a christian?
Just because you stand up and say your christian doesn't make you one. Just because you pray doesn't make you a christian. Just because you go to church doesn't make you a christian.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 13, 2004).]
Posted by Nanny on :
quote:Originally posted by Kate: President Bush, has accepted Christ as his Savior! He prays every morning, for guidance from God! That is a Christian! How do I know this? Besides reading his testimony, and seeing a documentary on him, where he openly states his beliefs, I worked with the republican headquarters, helping with the campaign, and the woman is charge, worked with him four years ago in his first campaign, one on one, and knows him and his family personally! She says that he is just as he seems, and says what he means, and means what he says! And yes, Glass, he is a human too, and makes mistakes like the rest of us, so don't start saying, "Well, dah hah, dah hah, he said there were weapons of mass destruction, where are they? He lied!"
The President, listened to everyone else, and gave the incompetent UN, six months to literally let the Iraqi terrorists, have time to move them out, sell them to France, bury them, whatever! If Saddam used them on his own people, HE USED TO HAVE THEM! Since you can't trust Saddam, you have to go look for them, before they are used again! The President believed they were there!!!! I believe they were there! Lots of people, believe they were there! The dead Iraqis that got bombed with them, saw they were there!
Well Kate, if you know him personally, why don't you call him and ask him to help the middle class working as well as the rich and Halliburton and the Lauden family.
Posted by Ric on :
This is why Bush is so danagerous IMO. This country was set up with checks and balances so we wouldn't have a leader that could takeover our country in a dictatorship.
MSNBC Article:
Ashcroft denounces judges who question Bush
WASHINGTON - Federal judges are jeopardizing national security by issuing rulings contradictory to President Bush’s decisions on America’s obligations under international treaties and agreements, Attorney General John Ashcroft said Friday.
"The danger I see here is that intrusive judicial oversight and second-guessing of presidential determinations in these critical areas can put at risk the very security of our nation in a time of war,” Ashcroft said in a speech to the Federalist Society, a conservative lawyers’ group.
Posted by Ric on :
I honestly believe if Bush could get a 60 seat Senate that he would try to have the 22 Amendment overturned. Because we are at war, you have to re-elect me to another term.
By the way, the 22 Amendment limits the President to 2 elected terms in office.
Posted by glassman on :
Kate, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad....
Half of Bush's supporters want to nuke the whole mideast, the other half think he is some evangelical democrat.....
half his supporters claim he just pretends to be dumb, to appeal to the common man, the other half claim he is a "what you see is what you get" guy......
somehow he managed to win the election with "leadership" qualities that are different depending on whom you ask.... i see him as the guy in the front of a very powerful, very astute political team, and they have no agenda other than to make a lot of money for themselves... you don't matter to them until they need your vote.....and they don't need tyour vote anymore....
Posted by keithsan on :
lets talk in 4 years. I dont expect big changes on the "social Issues" the middle east is a different story, we either quit or continue to try and stop terrorism by being on the offensive....
honestly i can see bush not taking on another country and letting them get nukes and continue to train terrorists....
i can also see him taking on this country and being called hitler for doing so...
Posted by Kate on :
I never said I knew him personally, I said my Christian friend Anne knows him personally! We all will go round and round on this subject, so I will make a suggestion! If we believe in prayer, why don't we all pray for the President to do God's will for our nation, and that he makes the right decisions for all of us! How can we go wrong there?
Ric, I agree with you on the issue of teacher, They shouldn't have to raise our kids, but not about the President! We just have different opinions that's all! I guess we shall all see what the next four years brings!
And Nanny, my husband works in a very large factory, that has been threatening to shut down, but I don't blame the President for something that the corporation is responsible for! The union has a lot to do with it! Greedy people at the top, don't want to give up any of their own money, to keep the factorys going, so that people can keep their jobs! My husband had to take a pay cut, and loose retirement, because of their last fiasco, but it isn't the Presidents fault, but the greedy bosses at the top! We've had several large factories close down here, but it isn't the Presidents fault, that the services they render, have so much competition they can't compete anymore, and have to shut down! I don't understand why you guys always want to blame him for things he doesn't have any control over!
Posted by Nanny on :
quote:Originally posted by Kate: I never said I knew him personally, I said my Christian friend Anne knows him personally! We all will go round and round on this subject, so I will make a suggestion! If we believe in prayer, why don't we all pray for the President to do God's will for our nation, and that he makes the right decisions for all of us! How can we go wrong there?
Ric, I agree with you on the issue of teacher, They shouldn't have to raise our kids, but not about the President! We just have different opinions that's all! I guess we shall all see what the next four years brings!
And Nanny, my husband works in a very large factory, that has been threatening to shut down, but I don't blame the President for something that the corporation is responsible for! The union has a lot to do with it! Greedy people at the top, don't want to give up any of their own money, to keep the factorys going, so that people can keep their jobs! My husband had to take a pay cut, and loose retirement, because of their last fiasco, but it isn't the Presidents fault, but the greedy bosses at the top! We've had several large factories close down here, but it isn't the Presidents fault, that the services they render, have so much competition they can't compete anymore, and have to shut down! I don't understand why you guys always want to blame him for things he doesn't have any control over!
My husband retired with the Teamsters Union and thank God this Union takes care of him. Otherwise, there's no way we could ever afford private health care. Now you know if Bush wasn't in bed with the big drug companies, Prescriptions would not costs so very much. The elderly can barely make ends meet because of their prescription costs. What about these people? You are saying he has no control over this???
Posted by Kate on :
From what I've heard him say, he has been working on it, Nanny! It is the drug companies, that keep putting up the costs, because they are in so much competition! Look at the cholesterol drugs! There is Pravachol, Zocor, Lipitor, and now a new one, that is supposed to work the best of all, called Crestor! I imagine the cost of it will be a lot! I know my husband is on Lipitor, and we have to buy it is three month supplies, online, to keep down the cost! My son has to use a drug called Elidel on his face! It is a nonsteroidal cream for exema, and it is over 100.00 dollars a tube! Why? Because the drug company knows it works, when most everything else has failed, and has hiked up the prices! Even with our prescription plan, it is still 25 dollars! Problem is, my husbands company only supports your college child with the prescription plan, until they hit 23, even though they still live at home when not at college. It is because of the companys contract, not because of the President! The only way we can get the prices down, is for the President to go after the drug companies! He is working on it, but it is a gargantuan task! He also wants us to have our social security, and help for the elderly! What can I say? We will have to watch and see what happens, over the next four years! If Senate and Congress, allows him to pass some things, it should get better! We need to pray for him, to do what is best for the Country! Posted by timberman on :
quote:Originally posted by Nanny: My husband retired with the Teamsters Union and thank God this Union takes care of him. Otherwise, there's no way we could ever afford private health care. Now you know if Bush wasn't in bed with the big drug companies, Prescriptions would not costs so very much. The elderly can barely make ends meet because of their prescription costs. What about these people? You are saying he has no control over this???
Well I'm glad your union is working for your family nanny. I doubt though, unless of course your husband worked directly for the union that they provide much of anything. It was most likely negotiated with the company or corporation that he worked with before retirement. The union I belong to doesn't give a darn about us until its dues time. I could tell you all a story that would make your heads spin about a union. I see alot of what unions do to companys and to people's work habits. Having held a position in the union I had first hand experience with these issues. Everything is a game on both sides. Our union is stuck in the 1950s or 60s and for it to survive it needs to learn to be a more modern union. Enough of that though. Its not the Presidents fault for these things it is greedy people. Yes thats right all people. People have gotten to the point that vary few care about each other anymore. People at the top are forced to perform for their boss and for themselves just like people at the bottom are. They (Corp. People) want those big bonuses and pay and don't care how they get it and there is nothing any President can do about it. Did you ever check how much corp. salaries rose during the Clinton years? The sad fact is both parties are sponsored by big corporations and people. Its kind of silly for the dems to point at the repubs and say you are for the rich when the most of them (higher ups that is) are rich too.
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by Ric on :
Kate
You are reading the Democrat platform not Bush's there, lol. Bush isn't going to help prescription drug price. Matter of fact he is keeping Medicare from even negotiating a better price. Bush is for Big Business not you or me. He thinks if you give Big Business enough breaks they will help the little people. Yea they will help us, they will take my money and give it to themselves.
And, don't you know marketing 101. Competition leads to lower prices not higher. Too many drug companies putting out similar products drive down price not up. The problem isn't competition, it is lack there of. Patent laws for drug company. They get to patent a drug even after the first patent expires so no generic drugs can be made. Government has done nothing but bend over backwards to keep Drug lobbist in business.
Ric
Posted by timberman on :
Ric if you think the Democratic party was going to give you anything I have some swamp land to sell. When was the last time the Dems did anything for anyone except raise you taxes.
Posted by Kate on :
Yeah, but my son's meds, don't have any competition! That's why they are so high! Look up Elidel online, and find me some better prices! I need them! Posted by Ric on :
No I didn't. Was just pointing out the facts. Rich white men run for office to stay rich white men.
quote:Originally posted by timberman: Ric if you think the Democratic party was going to give you anything I have some swamp land to sell. When was the last time the Dems did anything for anyone except raise you taxes.
But also on tax cuts, What a myth that is, lol. I didn't see a tax cut I saw a tax hike. Because the state said they weren't getting as much they raised sales tax. But since that wasn't enough to cover everthing they had to cut county money. Now the county says that since they aren't getting as much from the state they have to raise property taxes. Weres my tax cut. I pay more then before now. Repulicans make you think they will give you a tax cut but have raised deficit in the last 3 Republican presidents to unnatural levels. Democrats promise social welfare and raise taxes to pay for them. Who is better. Neither. If Republican were for smaller government, since they are in power, why don't they decrease it? Because other rich white men would be out of a job. They don't care about the government employee losing there job but the department head was a friend appointed to the post.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by timberman on :
Ya I know Ric. But until you and I and the rest do something about the two party system we're stuck with it.
Posted by timberman on :
I live in a Democratic state and they raised the taxes here too. Mostly to build football stadiums and slot machines. What a brilliant idea those were.
Posted by Ric on :
Really what we need to do is boot all the congress and senate reps and but new ones in and tell them, start doing it my way or the highway. But we won't. We keep sending back the same losers over and over again. We are so hung up on Republican or Democrat that we won't even elect the best man or a good man to office.
Ric
Posted by keithsan on :
my crappy dem state raises the taxes when economy is good, raises taxes when fed cuts them....
any excuse, to many unwatched gov't programs. can't blame the fed cuts, not every state raised em...
Posted by Ric on :
Yea but I live in a deep red state and they raised my taxes and did blame it on the Fed's cut. It doesn't matter. Its the excuses. It really don't matter, red or blue, they all want my money, lol.
Doesn't matter. One lies half dozen one way the other lies half dozen the other. We all get it in the end, no matter who you vote for.
Ric
[This message has been edited by Ric (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by glassman on :
and don't forget that the states are ALSO hiring contractors in India to handle whatever jobs can be done on the internet and the phone too.....in order to cut costs...
Posted by timberman on :
Could all move the the northwest territories and start over. Second though we can't agree on this board it would be chaos. lol
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by Ric on :
Shoot we are India's economy. If we are not given them jobs in India. We are given them tax breaks and SBA loans here in the US to buy up all the convenience stores and hotels.
Ric
quote:Originally posted by glassman: and don't forget that the states are ALSO hiring contractors in India to handle whatever jobs can be done on the internet and the phone too.....in order to cut costs...
Posted by Ric on :
Now thats funny, lol.
quote:Originally posted by timberman: Second though we can't agree on this board it would be chaos. lol
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by glassman on :
LOL..... Timber, if you had really read all my posts during the campaign, you would have noticed that my focus was on the UNTRUTH's (as i saw them) from the Bush campaign. i never said that i thought Kerry was a solution, only that i am so sick and tired of being lied to, taken advantage of, and just plain ripped off at every turn, that i just wanted to say YOU'RE FIRED...
as a WASP male, i am a member of the only category in America that still get's to hear that without a lawyer getting interested...LOL
one of my predictions (if Bush was re-elected) was MAJOR turmoil within the CIA.....it's starting...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Ric: Shoot we are India's economy. If we are not given them jobs in India. We are given them tax breaks and SBA loans here in the US to buy up all the convenience stores and hotels.
Ric
don't forget Mexico...dollars sent home from laborers here is their 2nd biggest income ...
is Israel still on a dollar-based economy?
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by Kate on :
We got tax money back, and we aren't rich!
Glass, my son gets the 30 quantity tube, twice a year! VERY expensive!
[This message has been edited by timberman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by glassman on :
Kate, whatever you pay here, they pay less for THE SAME THING in other countries.... it's been that way for a while.... i assume there are some exceptions, but not many... the AMA and the pharmaceutical companies are better than the rest of US, that's all....
i am glad that your son has found something that works.....
no doubt some godless liberal commie scientist discovered it..LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 14, 2004).]
Posted by Kate on :
I don't know who developed it, but you can buy the generic from Mexico, under the name Pimecrolimus, without a prescription! I'm still trying to find it for the least amount of money, I've gotten it down to 51.25, but not sure if you need a prescription yet, so I've emailed! You guys find a better deal, from lack of boredom, let me know! Also, without a prescription would be great, because he is in college, and it is difficult to get his doctor on the phone, when he needs it refilled.
Posted by glassman on :
careful on the Mexican stuff...they don't always label the tubes honestly...Canadians are much safer onthat (so i hear) good luck...
I accepted her for who she is, and shared God's love with her! She is a Christian!