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Author Topic: Polar regions found warming fast, raising sea levels
bdgee
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090225/sc_nm/us_climate_polars_4


Hint: Ignore this and you are going to force new pressures on the world's various governments to provide some sort of rational response and one sure rational response will be for those governments to band together to provide all out and uniform respond to the seas encroachment on habitable land. In other words, if you insist on not doing anything about global warming, you are more than encouraging the inevitable development of a powerful "World Government", that perhaps wouldn't base its functions on the will of the people or on some acceptable Bill of Rights.

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CashCowMoo
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Have you ever heard of someone named Maurice Strong bdgee?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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bdgee
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yes
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Relentless.
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quote:
Hint: Ignore this and you are going to force new pressures on the world's various governments to provide some sort of rational response and one sure rational response will be for those governments to band together to provide all out and uniform respond to the seas encroachment on habitable land. In other words, if you insist on not doing anything about global warming, you are more than encouraging the inevitable development of a powerful "World Government", that perhaps wouldn't base its functions on the will of the people or on some acceptable Bill of Rights.
A noble call, but odds are all of this is nothing more than fear inducing hype aimed at the very goal you speak of.
Bdgee there is nothing we can do about it..
Even if turning off all the lights in the world and never driving a car again would instantly change forever the climatic cycle we're being told to fear... We couldn't.

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glassman
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you're right, we've already altered the climate permanently. i don't see how that justifies pretending we didn't and ignoring the problem indefinitley.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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It was us?
The graphs I've seen have the global temp trending up long before we were burning anything.

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glassman
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have you any idea why the large mammals of North America disappeared shortly after the Siberian-Alaskan migration?

it's a rhetorical question, i know nobody knows...

there are some who beleive that neolithic people hunted with fire... it would have been "expedient" [Wink]

it's just the way of things. the real question is can we actually become self-aware or not.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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Ridiculous Drivel! First of all, even the wacko leftists say that global warming is taking a 10 to 15 year break. So, if it's taking a break, sea levels are not rising. Furthermore, I haven't heard anything about sea levels washing away ocean front property. Has Myrtle Beach disappeared? Is Florida underwater? Give me a break, it's just b.s. propaganda intended to further the leftist nonsense.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Ridiculous Drivel! First of all, even the wacko leftists say that global warming is taking a 10 to 15 year break. So, if it's taking a break, sea levels are not rising. Furthermore, I haven't heard anything about sea levels washing away ocean front property. Has Myrtle Beach disappeared? Is Florida underwater? Give me a break, it's just b.s. propaganda intended to further the leftist nonsense.

there is quite a bit of evidence to back up the "hunting with fire" theories... it is suspected that very large fires were lit and of course they burnt themselves out eventually....

you are clueless, i know, but researchers have done more than guess...

the fact that we are in a 10 - 15 year (normal) down cycle does not mean CO2 levels are going down... there is no doubt that CO2 is a significant, (but not the most powerful) greenhouse gas. the temps are not dropping, they are just not going up as fast... they are still going up tho.

none of those facts are in question...


there is no doubt that we add to the CO2 every minute of evey day. there is no doubt that we need to come up with a long-term plan to control CO2 and execute that plan.

if "conservative" means fear of the future and fear of change? if conservaitve means you cannot adapt your lifestyle to the demands of the environment, then you can have conservatism and forget about any type of GOP recovery that involves conservatism go find another party to ruin.

i live in a place where most people consider themselves conservative and still hunt and fish all the time. these guys down here know that putting out the right ground cover makes their bucks big, and the antlers huge... they do that, they can figure out how to live with less CO2 emmissions too.. and still be happy. Conservative should mean being a conservitor, not ignoring established scientific fact because it's "expensive" or represents a threat to the "status quo"... there is no status quo... change is the only constant.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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it seems to me that conservative has recently come to mean stupid. what a shame it has come to this.

“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing”

Karl Rove

i guess this is the result of having an idiot for leader and a devious reptile for his chief advisor?

What mental state allows someone to condemn the very tactics which everyone knowsthey pioneered and spent years exploiting?

does conservatism mean that you'll wait till you've lost power to represent moral policies

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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it's not just climatologists observing ice changes either:

this is last season.

Regionally, the biomass of mature male red king crab has been declining since 2001 and is currently at its
second lowest level in fifteen years. The department’s stock assessment survey detected no significant
recruitment to the mature male segment of the population or to the population as a whole. All of the nine
survey areas exhibited poor stock health in this year’s stock assessment survey. Stock status will be reevaluated
during the department’s 2009 stock assessment survey. Blue king crabs are an insignificant
bycatch of the red king crab fishery, and therefore are closed at the same time as red king


http://documents.cf1.adfg.state.ak.us/AdfgDocument.po?DOCUMENT=18937

Northern golden crab closes in couple of days... they got in an expected 145,000 pounds...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Yes, as education increases, adherence to claimed conservative principles declines. Personally, I do not think it is because the smarter people become the less they approve of actual conservatism. I personally think that once a person accepts the benefits of science and the scientific method and other intellectual realities, it becomes insulting to be fed the lies and crap as a justification for following what is being claimed is conservative. In other words, I think it is not a rejection of conservative principles, but a rejection of being sold rotten fish painted over and claimed to be conservativeness.....the smell of the rot is there even if the rotten fish is desguised to look ok.
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Relentless.
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I don't think anyone... with a brain... thinks there is no such thing as temperature changes here on earth... I just don't buy that we had any impact upon it.
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Relentless.
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 -

Been hotter.. been cooler...
We'll be fine

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Relentless.
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Global Ice Mass... over the last 6 million years.. and then 1 million years
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As you can see the trend is upward... calm down...

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glassman
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i am calm. i'm also quite reasonable. ever had a fish tank of your own to take care of?

 -

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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have you ever just watched kids?

kids do things for no reason. sometimes? i'll ask them, "Why ya doin' that?" answer: "i dunno"

at age 9 or ten you have start telling them that if they don't know why they are doing something? they probably shouldn't do it. some people never learn that.

do i beleive the world is ending? no. do i beleive that a vast majority of the resources we use every day are absolutely wasted? hell yes. is waste a sin?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i am calm. i'm also quite reasonable. ever had a fish tank of your own to take care of?

 -

Yes I have.. And everytime I tried to get proactive the tank suffered.. So everyone needs to calm down.. world.. ok
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glassman
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"proactive"? [Big Grin] i never did that to a fish tank..

i was going to build a greenhouse this spring but we decided to wait a year...

we're doing a really small ornamental pond instead... so i started reading up on KOI? some of those fish cost 2500$ they are carp for crying out loud.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
there is no status quo... change is the only constant.
You got that right. The only constant is change. We just came out of the last mini-ice age in the mid 1800's and the temperature is of course warmer. I'm almost positive that the warming at the end of the little ice age wasn't due to people driving their cars! LOL!!!

The climate is ALWAYS changing. What temperature do you lefties think is the right temperature for the earth? Since you seem to think the wacko environmentalists should be in charge of the climate, what temperature are they shooting for? Obviously, if sea level is rising and we're soon to be underwater, we need it to be colder! How much colder? C'mon - share your grand plan with us.

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jordanreed
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lol

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jordan

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glassman
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What temperature do you lefties think is the right temperature for the earth

yawn... is there an echo in here?

PM, the correct question is how much CO2 can we have in the atmosphere and survive...

if you are planning on God saving our butts? don't. God helps those who help....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
PM, the correct question is how much CO2 can we have in the atmosphere and survive...
Survive? Are we on the verge of extinction (from the climate, not Obama's assinine socialist policies)? You lefties say sea levels are rising, but Myrtle Beach, Florida, and even coastal California seem to still be there. You lefties say that temperatures are rising, but they haven't been rising recently. You say that humans are to blame for this crises (that apparently doesn't even exist) and yet you can't tell me what worldwide temperature you're shooting for.

I don't think you have a clue!

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jordanreed
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lol

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jordan

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
PM, the correct question is how much CO2 can we have in the atmosphere and survive...
Survive? Are we on the verge of extinction (from the climate, not Obama's assinine socialist policies)?

I don't think you have a clue!

you have the mental attitude of a child.

"i think i'll wait til next Tuesday to do my report cuz it's not due til Wednesday"...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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" Only after the last tree has been cut down..

Only after the last river has been poisoned..

Only after the last fish has been caught...

Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

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jordan

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bdgee
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No, Jordan, even then he won't find out crap. Instead, he'll be blaming his hunger on socialism, wacko leftist, and birth control.
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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
What temperature do you lefties think is the right temperature for the earth

yawn... is there an echo in here?

PM, the correct question is how much CO2 can we have in the atmosphere and survive...

if you are planning on God saving our butts? don't. God helps those who help....

What is the temperature were shooting for?

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Let's Go METS!!!

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Propertymanager
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quote:
Only after the last tree has been cut down..

Only after the last river has been poisoned..

Only after the last fish has been caught...

Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten

Don't worry Jordan, we're no where near cutting down the last tree. There are more trees now than at the turn of the 20th century! There are 12 million more acres of forest in the United States just since 1987!!! Here's a link or you can find your own:

http://www.abundantforests.org/

Rivers and lakes in the United States have been cleaned up and are better now than in the past.

There are plenty of fish to catch.

Money already can't be eaten, but without money it's hard to buy groceries (unless you're a deadbeat that gets food stamps or goes to the food bank for food. I just cleaned out the refrigerator and cabinets from a deadbeat a couple of days ago, that apparently had so much food that she left it all when she left!!! Of course, since YOU paid for it, she didn't care - she can always get more!

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T e x
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Plenty of fish "to catch"...

ya, but eating?

Scroll through the Advisory Table, here:

http://web.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/fishadvisory/limitmeals.html

...and that's just for Ohio

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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we're no where near cutting down the last tree. There are more trees now than at the turn of the 20th century! There are 12 million more acres of forest in the United States just since 1987!!! Here's a link or you can find your own:


yeah and that's because people like Rachael Carson stood up and spoke loudly about how screwed up what we were doing was.

there were plenty of asses like you back then saying she was FOS too.

you don't get it, that's obvious. you are afraid of economic progress, that's quite clear.

you beleive you are for free markets when in fact you support the opposite. you support corporate governance.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Yes, corporate governance is what the lame brained like PM are actually advocating and they do so thinking how it will pump up their egotistical desire for power, not governmental stability, all the while ignoring the fact that corporate governance is just a sanitized way of saying fascism.
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Propertymanager
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quote:
you beleive you are for free markets when in fact you support the opposite. you support corporate governance
Ridiculous! You guys have absolutely no understanding of how business works - as you've shown time after time. I am a small businessman and I certainly don't favor corporate governance. I favor opportunity for all and I favor the government getting out of the way.

If you go back and really watch that Rush speech, you might learn something. In fact, if you watch only the first 10 minutes of the speech, you would understand what conservatives (including me) believe.

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bdgee
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"You guys have absolutely no understanding of how business works"

I dare say that with more than one profitable and successful swim into the wild seas of company ownership, not to mention a considerable experience in administration of pretty large commercial private business for profit (some of which included real estate property management), I stand a hell of a lot closer to understanding how business works than you do ecology, or science, or economics or whatever , PM. What's more, I can assure you that I am not the only person posting here that can make similar statements.

Your ignorance is exceeded by your foolish and ignorance arrogance.

Oh, Yeah......I already knew what conservatives, including you believe.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
you beleive you are for free markets when in fact you support the opposite. you support corporate governance
Ridiculous! You guys have absolutely no understanding of how business works - as you've shown time after time. I am a small businessman and I certainly don't favor corporate governance. I favor opportunity for all and I favor the government getting out of the way.

If you go back and really watch that Rush speech, you might learn something. In fact, if you watch only the first 10 minutes of the speech, you would understand what conservatives (including me) believe.

LOL.. go back to the real estate boards if they'll have you.

you've proven you don't belong here...

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