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arsjones
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Hey guys,

I am new here and pretty new to any sort of investing. I am planning on tossing a few hundred dollars in an online trading account like Etrade. But after reading through these and other forums I have read that some of the online trading site don't allow certain trades.

What sites do you guys recommend using? I have been thinking about trying out short sales and penny stocks. I plan not really making any money, just learning how all these things work.

Thanks for your time!
-Jones

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I'm new be nice to me!

Posts: 3 | From: Omaha | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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First, forget about going short.

Second, you'll be better off to gather more capital.

Third, keep reading...then papertrade for a while, and continue to build up some real capital.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bob Frey
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http://www.allstocks.com/html/choicetrade_com.html
Posts: 3357 | From: Cleveland, Ohio | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Free Muney
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hey tex,

why the ki-bash on short selling?

I would love to hear a reason to only go long when
billions are being pulled from the markets.
(other than the max return on investment,99% vs inf.)

I have been following this site for awhile now
and few even comment on ss.

Bob, Mach, invest, juice, anyone. would love
to hear as many perspectives as possible.

also is ss treated different in taxes?

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Contrarian views always appreciated.... :p

Posts: 361 | From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
arsjones
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Thanks for the responses...

* TEX

Thanks for the advise, but my question was never answered. I am going in to this knowing that I will probably lose money... but I want to learn. Your never going to learn how to play soccer by reading how to play soccer in the internet... if you want to learn how to play and eventually get good you have to go out and play.

* Bob

Thanks! ill check it out.

--------------------
I'm new be nice to me!

Posts: 3 | From: Omaha | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
arsjones
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i was trying to pen a choicetrade account but they sdont seem to like NE...

--------------------
I'm new be nice to me!

Posts: 3 | From: Omaha | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by Free Muney:
hey tex,

why the ki-bash on short selling?

I would love to hear a reason to only go long when
billions are being pulled from the markets.
(other than the max return on investment,99% vs inf.)

I have been following this site for awhile now
and few even comment on ss.

Bob, Mach, invest, juice, anyone. would love
to hear as many perspectives as possible.

also is ss treated different in taxes?

why the ki-bash on short selling?

1. trader says he's new to all this: therefore is much easier (rather than try to go short) by some orders of magnitude to do one of these, depending upon one's risk-management "personality"--purposely presented in a list with no priority assigned:
  • position trade
  • swing trade
  • momentum/runner trade

2. trader says he's got limited funds: Hello?Margin requirements? Up-front requirements to short pennies?

If I'm missing something, jump in...

3. If you can't trade under limitations re: (2), THERE'S NO POINT discussing theoretical unlimited ceiling on losses for going short versus being able to budget a complete wipeout if ALL
long positions go south.

4. Even veteran investors and traders get caught by machinations of the real insiders: Witness --> "derivative swaps": there's no naked shorting; oh, wait, maybe there is; no, there's no problem; O--WAIT...shorting these stocks is temporarily forbidden; O, hell, o, damn...that ban on shorting was a mistake...


5. It's hard e-godang-nuff just learning to scalp a few bucks--you really wanna encourage a newbie to start going short?

that is, EVEN IF he could?

**********

Now, that being said, if you've been successful at going short--or even semi-successful--please explain how to get started, what to watch for, etc.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Free Muney
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tex,

first off LOVE the passionate, through response. And with that said I will address your response with my
mindset as i made the comment earlier today.

Ok. here goes. trying not to insult/infuriate anyone...and i would also like to preface this response that I've been following the markets for a much shorter time than tex [Smile]

As far as the extent of my response I took your
response to mean that you would advise a new blood to never short sell.

And although I would never even try to
play the penny stocks unless I had near a decade of trading experience. period. (ps. i tried to dabble earlier in my trading history and got burned... naturally.) I do believe that shorting stocks is often looked over because of the stigma of the commonly held outdated buy and hold strategy.

so jones and tex i completely agree that pennies
are not a good idea unless you are making short term momentum trades(and jones to do so you need minimum 25k in you account at all times to actively day trade) and I've never even tried
shorting pennies. to even find one that you could short would be a frustrating exercise in futility.
As well as the fact that you do need a margin account to short sell any stock i believe.


What I was referring to when i posted, was what I have had great success in the past 6 months after
trying going long, finding the undervalued, growth
stocks and getting burned; since my trading is mostly short term(and leveraged), I decided to instead find big board stocks(NYSE,NASDAQ, ETC.) that suck. and sell them down the river.

Jones, information on these big board stocks are much more reliable, easily accessible, and audited! = safe. although no investing is 100% safe!!!!!!

Using a combination of market trends, technical analysis, and my own personal knowledge of industries that are getting thrashed(i.e. most premium brands, circuit city was getting killed by best buy for near a decade before they went bankrupt, housing is getting killed, banking was getting killed so I made a lot of earnings plays selling banks short after all were following suit releasing terrible numbers. Big box retail chains as well.)

My response was to assert that until you are VERY comfortable doing extensive research to find undervalued stocks, or you really understand an industry that is experiencing 20% growth. In this ENORMOUS recession, it MAY be easier to find companies to that are struggling to stay alive and sell them short. Thats all. And my experiences are proof that although in a bull market going long is by far the way to go... When the majority of stocks momentum is DOWN, swings up are smaller and tougher to time, and assuming that a newer trader would not be devoting a fraction of the time that an experienced swing trader would be spending finding runners, I humbly feel that short selling with momentum in your favor should not be ruled out.

Fair? [Big Grin]

Jones as far as advice for you i would recommend paper trading for a year(short and long). And saving your money until you could invest a few thousand, I tried first hand to use only 1k and with a 10$ a trade each way you need a 50% gain to actually make any money which is much tougher to do than a 10% swing which can happen in a day after earnings or a news release.

Part of what you'll be gaining from the practice is controlling impulse(greed) testing theories, learning where to find decent information/research, that is actually presented logically. I hope this helps. And this board is a fantastic resource with very few idiots.... good luck and happy learning! [BadOne]

--------------------
Contrarian views always appreciated.... :p

Posts: 361 | From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by arsjones:
Thanks for the responses...

* TEX

Thanks for the advise, but my question was never answered. I am going in to this knowing that I will probably lose money... but I want to learn. Your never going to learn how to play soccer by reading how to play soccer in the internet... if you want to learn how to play and eventually get good you have to go out and play.

* Bob

Thanks! ill check it out.

You're asking for a broker recommendation?

I don't know any that open an account for a few hundred...maybe Zecco.

Good luck.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beechwood
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Personally, I don't think today's market is
any place for a newbie to wet yer whistle.
That goes even moreso for the penny boards
where price manipulation is running more
rampant than it ever has.
If you wanna throw a few bills into the batter
to jump into pennies thats as much as I would risk for a newbie just jumping in.
As such, DON'T play the pennies with any more
than you can afford to lose.

Think of the penny market as a night at a
Vegas casino right now.
Enter with the premise that you're just going
to have some fun for awhile and, when you lose
you wad, at least you had a good time.
Advanced plays require seasoned trading
experience - especially these days.
As volatile as the market is today you need to
to babysit the boards and be ready to pull the
trigger the instant you wanna place a trade.
Most people work day jobs and don't have this option at hand.
And I certainly wouldn't trust a broker unless
you have some big bucks to throw his way.

Like the above poster said, I would first open
a paper trade account and see how well you do.
DO NOT bet any real $$$ based on what you read
in these boards.
There are several paid pumpers in here hyping
stocks that are poised to fall (thereby making
$$$ for their brokers,MM's,etc. and not you).
Watch repeated picks and you'll see what I mean.
I tune into these boards to find out which picks
to AVOID! -- and for the most part I'm not
disappointed.

Watch the action for awhile before you throw
your hat in the ring for real.
I've seen to many people sock everything they
had into the penny boards only to get burned.
Oh, well.
Coulda said I told you so.
With all that said, bon appetite'
and have a good time...

Posts: 669 | From: Gouldsboro, Pa. | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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