quote:Originally posted by wallymac: It's no different than if a bank was to deposit money in your account that didn't belong to you. If you spend it you are responsible to replace it.
Cause and Effect doesn't work there.
I hope the brokers have to pay but I doubt it.
How can TDA NOT be responsible for PAIV shares they gave traders that have yet to be given to them? That is exactly what they did, and they are 100% responsible.
Restricted shares or not, these shares should not have been given to traders!!!
Just as the bank should not have put the money in your account to begin with. I have read and even known people that had this happen. A big sum of money was put in their account by mistake and they spent. They ended up going to court and the Judge ruled in favor of the bank.
Believe me I don't want to see anyone get hurt but I could see the same scenario play out here.
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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Repo... that's good news. I just hope it doesn't end up in the blackhole somewhere, where they can't find it. I learned a valuable lesson about emails though after Arbitration. And I learned that if I go to talk to a broker, record it.
-------------------- "As long as there are dreamers, there are dreams that will come true." Posts: 862 | From: CT Yankee..... in FLA | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote: If you read through this post you'd see that I did in fact cal;l the broker, probably more times than you did. And I'm very proud of you that you didn't sell, but you're being a prick about this if you think everyone else should have watched the stock fall like a stone and say "I bet I can have an answer in 15 phone calls and 4 hours! I won't sell because I don't thikn I'm supposed to be able to"
I just want to say that it doesn't matter what you think you are able to sell or not. You were not supposed to sell is a fact. Because you still had the ability doesn't make it Ameritrade's fault. The PR's clearly stated the shares were restricted. If you weren't 100% clear if whether or not you could sell then you probably shouldn't sell or at least do some more research till you know for sure. And on the fact of waiting, even if the stock falls 90% the shares still were restricted and yes you did have to wait because they are restricted. The law is still the law and if you break it there will be consequences. Hopefully this will help investors in the future not to make the same mistake.
-------------------- "The greatest risk is to take no risk at all" Posts: 54 | Registered: Apr 2006
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PCola77 Nothing taken personally and I did not intentionally mean to hurt those who are in this perdicament. I was just getting tired of those who were complaining so much. I hope it works out the best for eveyone but I know some traders are not going to be happy no matter what.
Posts: 78 | From: Spanaway | Registered: Apr 2006
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Stockman, what about my case? I called and said I don't understand why I can't sell my shares. THEY TOLD ME I COULD. THEY PUT THE ORDER IN TO SELL.
-------------------- "As long as there are dreamers, there are dreams that will come true." Posts: 862 | From: CT Yankee..... in FLA | Registered: Aug 2005
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what is all the mis interpetation about here? sorry can someone bring me up to speed about this stock and the issue of selling?
Posts: 1088 | From: Dallas, Texas | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by stocks1984: what is all the mis interpetation about here? sorry can someone bring me up to speed about this stock and the issue of selling?
The market was flooded by restricted PAIV stock by TD Waterhouse/Ameritrade.
Posts: 159 | From: San Diego, CA, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Repoman75: You may have a case Superbee... if you called and a LICENSED broker told you that you can sell, you may have a case.
Repo, I just called the same person again at Ameritrade. He did say that all phonecalls are kept for years, which is good! And it's on their screen that a broker DID put the trade in for me, BUT, he still doesn't know how it's going to be resolved. Ameritrade is trying to find out who told them that the stock wasn't restricted. As of the last email he received, nothing was settled about what's going to happen to us, our money, our shares.
-------------------- "As long as there are dreamers, there are dreams that will come true." Posts: 862 | From: CT Yankee..... in FLA | Registered: Aug 2005
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No WAY this stock gets halted. No WAY. Too many trades happened already.
Ameritrade is getting desperate... if this tanks on the open tomorrow, watch for my theory to come true. If not, those who sold restricted shares are SCREWED.
-------------------- Stick with Repo's plan in '07 - FRPT/DKAM! Posts: 6379 | From: PA | Registered: Dec 2004
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202-551-6551 is for Investor assistance and complaints.
Thanks for the link Rock. I guess I'll get to sit on the phone all day tomorrow again!
-------------------- "As long as there are dreamers, there are dreams that will come true." Posts: 862 | From: CT Yankee..... in FLA | Registered: Aug 2005
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I suggest you read your broker agreement very carefully.
In Scottrade's Brokerage Agreement under #8 it states:
"You agree that ant purchse or sell order accepted (inadvertently or otherwise) by us without sufficent funds or negotiable certificates, respectively, in your Account will be subject to liquidation in the case of a purchase order, or buy-in in the case of a sell order, at your expense."
It further states:
"In the event of a sale order is executed and the securities are not in your account, you promise to deliver all securities sold, on or before settlement date. If such funds or securities are not received on or before settlement date, we may liquidate your account and you will be liable for any resulting losses and all associated costs that we incur."
I'm other brokerages have similiar language. Be careful. CYA.
Brokers have been caught before selling shares they didn't have. They simply bought them to replace what was missing and may have paid a fine.
If this goes to litigation, your account will be tied up for years waiting for the courts to decide.
I have no stake in this. Have not bought one share and am only trying to shed whatever light I can on this as well as learn a lesson for myself.
Hope it all works out.
Good Luck Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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it won't be halted, i'm out of this for now.. but they won't halt it... they wouldnt' have allowed us to sell the shares purchsed on friday or monday if that was the case.
someone will be buying the shares back, ameritrade or the sellers.
Posts: 730 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Buying is different than selling. Buying in the open market you are supposed to be assured that what you are buying are unrestricted, tradable shares.
Now, the problem comes on settlement date, the guy I bought them from on Friday, has to deliver them to me tomorrow. But he can't, he only has restricted shares. So he can be forced to purchase tradable shares in the open market to cover the short created friday. Meanwhile, I'm stuck with a fail to deliver. But I can still pass on the shares I bought and the next guy will get a fail to deliver until, eventually, someone clears up the short. round and round we go
Posts: 2554 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Yup, And in this case, you can go to court and based on the evidence that is evident here and from Ameriturde emails, basically I can claim damagest etc from the person that did not settle my shares.
But I won't do that, I will just pass this onward to somebody else at haight price.
I already sold half so all I have now is free shares that will sell half at 10 cents.
Posts: 1227 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Now all the naked shares are out already on this one we dont have to worry or argue as to why the share price once it starts falling is falling. Those naked shorters. lol. TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks. Posts: 2048 | From: Texas | Registered: Feb 2006
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Too bad I didn't have an extra $60K lying around. I would have loved to have bought 60 million shares on friday at .001 and owned 109% of the company and requested that the paper stock be delivered to me Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by PCola77: Too bad I didn't have an extra $60K lying around. I would have loved to have bought 60 million shares on friday at .001 and owned 109% of the company and requested that the paper stock be delivered to me
HAHA! That was what I was thinking last night.
So if one bought the whole 56,575,212 float, and don't sell, will the price go up infinitely? =)
Posts: 159 | From: San Diego, CA, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sorry, for all that sold restricted shares. Many people are in too big a hurry these days. I am fairly new to these stocks and had 1 mil JPHC. But did see it was restricted in the merger agreement, so had no thoughts of selling. Also glad they flagged it with a temporary symbol. What are the opinions on PAIV from here? Bought at 23 250000 so;d 100000 at 7. So i am thinking of holding for a bit. What are some of you doing?
-------------------- Pull on your boots,Slap on your hat, Relax, and Enjoy the ride. Posts: 31 | From: Wills Point, Texas | Registered: Apr 2006
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And I thought this thread was entertaining yesterday. Today has far exceeded my entertainment expectations. I am so glad that I sold mt JPHC or I would be in the same boat. I do feel bad for those that sold restricted though. Just remember, I'm laughing with you, not at you
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2647 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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I have been confused and called Scottrade to get some answers. They told me that I could do nothing with my 2 million shares of JPHC. They gave me the number to call for shareholders services for PAIV which I just hung up with.
The lady told me that my JPHC shares will be converted to RESTRICTED PAIV shares which I cannot do anything with for one year. She also said there were some further restrictions for the second year also. Sounded like you may not be able to sell anytime you want in the second year. NOT SO GOOD. I then aksed her what the trouble was with Ameritrade selling PAIV and why there was 760 million in volume today.
She said the ONLY THING that should be trading is anyone that had APO shares and there are not anywhere near that many shares of APO. She said that the Ameritrade problem is not their problem. She said they told Ameritrade to halt this and this money will have to be recovered from the investors or Ameritrade.
SO, I'm not sure if some of you better hang on to any profits you have made buying and selling this OR....perhaps there are going to be some lawsuits flying around very soon.
Hope this clears things for some people....all I know is I'm pissed cause I now have 2 mill. shares I'm stuck with for 1 to 2 years. She also told me that it was clearly stated in the PR that they would be restricted but I did not understand it that way as I'm sure many of you didn't either. I thought that thru the merger I would possibly end up with SOME TYPE of restricted shares but I never thought it was going to be all of my entire JPHC holdings. Hope this helps. You can call the number at 800-963-6471.
-------------------- It's only money..We'll make more tomorrow! Posts: 788 | From: Tx. | Registered: Jun 2005
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I think this will see beyond a penny tomorrow. The shares sitll must be bought back and, unfortunately for many, the sellers have a stranglehold on the price. If they want .05 they can get it because someone has to buy it. The only question now is who is going to eat the cost for this momentus screw up.
-------------------- Lemmy = God Posts: 21 | From: Las Vegas | Registered: May 2006
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Thoth, I have heard that term a million times and I guess I need to ask a stupid question. What does fill the gap mean and how does it affect the stock. Thanks in advance, TMAN...
-------------------- In the end, trust only yourself when trading stocks. Posts: 2048 | From: Texas | Registered: Feb 2006
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Basically if a stock "gaps" big in one way or the other means it closes at a price one day then opens at a price much different form that. Meaning thre was a gap in which no sales took place. Like APO closed at .01 on Thursday and opened like 85% down at .0015. Filling the gap is when the price corrects itself to the point where it ended the previous day.
I haven't really thought too much about it, but it's not obvious to me why it happens as often as it does. Some peole say it has to do with the prices that MMs bought and sold, but it just doesn't seem like that's a good enough explanation.
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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So here's a question for the board. Given the way this stock has spiraled out of control, it seems to me the only safe way to save both company and investor from incurring massive damage is to halt trading. However, the company does have the option to just screw the investor, which is far from unheard of. Do you think that they will halt the stock tomorrow or will it just be a payday for some and bankruptcy for others?
-------------------- Lemmy = God Posts: 21 | From: Las Vegas | Registered: May 2006
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