i think (hope) historians will look back on this era as the DISinformation age as opposed to the dawn of the informatin age... cuz if they don't? it will mean things didn't get better....
No, glassman, that was not my intention. Substitute any MM initials you want, I should have used XYZD. All of the big money MMs naked short. Some of the little guys try for awhile, but they don't have the... hmmm... how to say? ...connections to make it profitable?
posted
These differences are worth efforts to determine on any investment/trade...
1. Situations where naked shorting is used as vicious bear attack against viable or struggling business. It takes a lot of collusion and manipulation to maintain the short position.
2. Situations where naked shorting is used to drive the pps down for 'personal gain' for any number of factions. For example, knowledge of events (such as CD conversion).
3. Honest, no kidding, maintaining market liquidity.
4. Here...
'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!
The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is.
... classic pump and dump. And it can only occur with the blessing/participation of MMs. There's nothing invisible here, both sides of the trade are present and accounted for.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think there's much more "paid bashing" goin' on at the so-called business "news" cable channels than there is online tho.....
Great point, too true. Bulletin boards are just the trickle down effect, for the most part. More basher-bang for your buck?
although not beyond the realm of possibility that such schemes might be tried here, given the number of views...
How might something like that work, in your general view or experience? In other words, not saying "let's go to the mat with current events," lol, but merely by way of example: Company A has employee/contractor B do thus-and-such, knowing firm C will react such-and-thus?
One reason I ask is, I'm like "the kids" in many respects--have traded only since decimalization. Hence, your background/experience is valuable...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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The problem with biting off more than I can chew and swallow results from trying to apply one set of circumstances to generalize another situation. It's impossible to do. Consider this - there's a long line of folks, toes on the line and waiting for the bell - their goal is the average investor's wallet. Each has their own plan to get there first, just as retail traders develop their own strategy to realize gain.
Examples... hedge funds don't even have to work for it, wallets are freely given, along with pension funds, IRAs, education accts, etc. So to establish the groundwork, investors must realize that their 'position power' is automatically negated by the institution that lends those shares as if they belong to them. This is why I find Utah's bill so fascinating and refreshing. Not the bill itself, but their forward intentions.
Now look at electronic trading. The online broker negates a position, DTC will loan against the same position, and SEC regs allow MMs/BDs a percentage of OS to short. Not % of float, but % of OS. Follow me here, because absolutely every position taken so far is legal, it has nothing to do with FTD.
Practical application... a company has TWO investors with 100 shares. Over time, more sharks (shortees) jump in the water. One investor, tired of seeing his stock sit or slowly trickle away, decides to sell. Next day, investor scratches head wondering why he didn't wait one more day... his 100 shares would have been worth a fortune. Investor never realizes how his sell created the need for buy-to-cover, but moves on to find another company to invest in.
Personal satisfaction - sometimes I get to be the one selling at the top. No worries about leaving a retail trader high-and-dry. I like to sell to the short-sharks so they can cover their hides.
But that's not really what you want to know, so here it is... Rather simple, trusty guru with string of successful picks comes up with a real winner. By now has developed quite a following. Has (IMO) too much money on the line for otc, holds too many shares. Pump, pump, bit of resistance at psychological levels, where guru is selling off for early gains. Small pullback, more buying because guru is still excited. Another 100 - 200% gains, more guru sell off. Before a sub-penny reaches .01, that guru is out. Checks in from time to time, spreading the cheer, while the MM is making money shorting all the way down again. Not all people are losers, some profit more than others, but the whole thing is a fix. Classic. Wait for new blood and do it all over again.
I'm saying, bold as bear, that this would NOT EVER happen without cooperation.
posted
TT, i played a serious screwup otcbbb stock (not GVRP tex) and "learned" that the brokers are most probably counting on fast trading/ high rate of share turnover in online margin accounts...
like bookies deciding whether to cover the bets or lay them off ....
i won't get into specifics, but my deduction (this is a guess) was that an online broker wasn't even actually acquiring and putting the shares into my margin account.
i watched a play unfold where there were only 5 million shares in the OS... a couple-hundred million "counterfeit shares" got on the market somehow (that story has yet to be resolved)
the brokers managed to buy-in during the two weeks before the SEC suspended trading... they got the warning from the SEC that the shares were counterfeit and the price went crazy when the brokers finally started to actually buy the "counterfeit" shares... even tho they knew they were "counterfeit"? they had to have them in our accounts before trading was suspended or they would never be able to produce them for the court case to follow... they went from .0005 to 6 cents in a two week window....
i sold into the run and held a few to see how this plays out, but the only common sense deduction i could come up with is that a lot of brokers are not even trying to make sure the shares are ever delivered to ONLINE margin accounts, cuz they expect them to be flipped when the price moves either up or down... no doubt they have programs that track their actual exposure and alert them when they need to start buying, but it appears to me that margin accounts are just slush funds...
GVRP was a different one that also showed a couple brokerage houses that were not waiting on delivery of shares before they allowed trading....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
LOL, only one, never used the margin just wanted it for the flipping..... they have these stupid settlement rules if you don't have margin.. which makes sense if they aren't ever actually putting the shares in your acct, huh?
BTW? why does it take three days to settle a trade? they get the cash out of my checking acct when i write a check in 5 minutes
heck i don't even carry a debt on my credit cards but i still use 'em....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
glassman, I've seen the same things. You trade pennies in a margin account? You are one brave soul.
Oh, and my online cash accounts? I've interrupted some funny things when hitting Bal/Pos refresh. Not churning, not sure what the deal is when that happens.
I think we've seen most every scenario laid out by the peeps originally opposed to electronic trading. Not so funny, huh?
posted
One thing the brokers and MMs better get used to... long-term traders, like me, are here to stay. Seeing red on a good stock is eye candy. They can keep 'em coming.
Urban legends are being exposed... no serious investor trades pennies, pennies are only good for daytrading, all pennystock companies are worthless, settle for small gains and be happy, never put new money into a losing trade, get a margin account...
Oh, yeah, get a margin account so we can knock you out of the ballpark and into bankrupcy court.
posted
no, a lot of the things i've seen? not funny at all....
i didn't set the account up as margin....
but i got the margin after i had acheived certain goals... i would never borrow money to trade with, but with the cash account? they wouldn't let me trade as often as i wanted to....
i have one account with a human broker that makes as much as i do on trades when i take 20%... the guy is a horses petutie too.... and his advice sux
i was using microcapfeed for about two years, saw how the MM's bump the ask as soon as a PR comes out.... volume or not, didn't matter, they raised just because there was a PR...
for a long time? i ran a screener set to find stock with 20 to 30% volume increases above the 30 day moving average volume WITH a LESS than 10% PPS change....
found the pump and dump plays while the pumpers were accumulating... usually? the pump came about two weeks to a month after the highest volume days ( i guess they let the chart settle back down a bit?)... they appear to be running GTC limit buy orders for weeks at a time and the volume spikes ususally only happened once or twice, so i had to take alot of notes and track as many 50 or 60 stocks at a time.... but i spotted plenty of P&D's before they ever got posted on a BB
glassblowing is more rewarding.... at least at the end of the day? i actually make soemthing other than some numbers in computer somewhere.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Watching PAIV? Oh, no. Got $$ in that one. And ameritrade may take the blame for this, but it isn't their doing. Not this time.
The time you spent on researching those screens will pay off for years to come. Interesting, those are the stocks I try to avoid unless I want to play around with short term cash. Wish newbies would take the time to dig into a system before they blindly follow someone. Call me a dreamer.
On the flip side, I like my longs discovered through dd and totally undiscovered by bbs.
Gotta go, and thanks for the old memories refresh.
posted
Tick Trader, I'm more of a Nasdaq, Amex trader..
The Liquidity and Transparency make for an easier ride. Trading tools that are set-up for the main market, can really help when trading is fast. An example: Quote Scope and Graphics.
Is the feed to Quote Scope faster than L2'S? or is it just my interpitation? I have also noticed the Graphic feed seems to be faster,[by a few seconds,] than standard L2'S
I do however from time to time jump back into the OTCBB'S OTC'S.
As far as manipulation goes? I've seen some mighty blatent shinanigans in the Big Boards..
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posted
Dustoff, have you noticed the big boys are getting more brazen about the manipulation on major exchanges? I always thought that MMs were wannabe WS suits, but it appears the suits are trying to take notes from OTC MMs.
Do you use the tools to daytrade? Or just to find a good entry/exit point? I don't daytrade (occassionally), so intraday isn't a concern for me. The difference you notice may actually be your own learning style. You may interpret graphics faster than print. L2s from Ameritrade don't show the whole line-up either, so Quote Scope may be catching that to give a more complete picture of movement.
Someone pointed out the new analyzer tool in a post, was that you? I checked it out the next day. Put my heart in my throat. Several of my longs showed up... red, red, red ... really red. What does this mean? Really, really red, all day long? Are you supposed to sell? Those particular stocks gapped up at open, so does this mean gappers are not accounted for? They still closed higher than previous day close, but stayed pegged in the red on that thing. Promised my heart not to do that again.
OTCBBs are my favorites, better gains and you get the transparency that comes with majors. I moved a small % to pinks only because of the Sarb.Ox. requirements. There are some good companies that have no choice but to move to pinks because of the expense involved. Before that, a pink had to be really special to get my attention.
I rate stocks based on dd, here's a few written in stone... pinks -1 Amex -2 Solid OTCBB hidden or misclassified +3
And this one is new, as of yesterday... Incorporated in Utah +2 Inc. in Utah as of May, 2006 +3
Some readers will recognize IESV stock. Many of us are vested in this one. My estimation is naked shorts are being sold at a rate at least ten times the actual number of IESV shares in the float. This has been happening for months and months.
These are counterfeit shares being sold to people, shares which simply do not exist.
What is the SEC doing? Absolutely nothing just as I indicated would happen long before regulation SHO took effect.
posted
"ROBERT SHAPIRO, CHAIRMAN, SONECON: Very large customers, principally hedge funds, are being permitted to short-sell stocks without ever delivering the shares and without ever having to borrow the shares."
Two years back I discussed SHO and the NASD rule both have loop holes designed to benefit Wall Street and the rich. SHO and the related NASD rule were intentionally written to screw the public and reward Wall Street. My opinion still stands the SEC is so corrupt as to be nothing more than organized crime.
What do expect with a known criminal as the chairman of the SEC, thanks to George Bush.
Financial crime is increasing. In time, you will be defrauded of your money. Do you care? I do not think you people even care, as long as you are making money. First time you are defrauded, I am sure you will cry-baby,
"Something should be done about this."
So, what is your problem you do not take action, now?
posted
IESV is simply being naked shorted by major brokers such as Schwab, Lynch, Morgon Stanley and many others. No doubt major hedge funds are in there.
How many known Schwab, a few years back, was connected to money laundering through Dubai, U.A.E, financial facilities? This money laundering was performed for Islamic terrorists. Funds were derived directly from naked shorting through naked shorting enabled by Schwab accounts.
U.A.E ring a bell? How about Dubai? Some of these companies involved in terrorist money laundering through Schwab, are the same companies involved with the Bush-Dubai Port deal. Bush intended to place those associated with Islamic terrorists in charge of some of our major ports.
Are you so naive to not realize Islamic terrorists are deriving funds through naked short selling?
Oh sure, Kira is a kook, Kira is crazy, next she will claim the Grays From Space are behind naked short selling.
posted
Forgot to ask, what will your children do when Social Security is no more and they simply must fend for themselves, simply must plan for their retirements, long after we are dead?
Maybe they will follow Bush's advice and give their money to Wall Street criminals? Perhaps your children will try to invest to secure a decent future?
Who will support your children after Wall Street has defrauded them of their life savings?
Do you care? Guess this does not matter because you will be dead anyhow. No big deal, as long as this does not affect you, personally.
posted
Purl, hope I didn't set you off. But you know what? IESV was not my pick last year or so far this year. Now I did say that I don't post negatives on stocks that I don't own. Let me post a positive... treat this stock as a new deal effective May 22, 2006.
Question... is it seriously shorted, or do they have more old CDs and restricted shares hitting the market?
BTW, why is a Canadian entity so gung-ho to battle U.S. naked shorting? TIA
posted
Canada is a major source of naked shorting.
Canada, like Mexico, is leeching money out of America. Canadian governments turn a blind eye to naked shorting because the money is good, Canadian citizens benefit and this garners votes for Canadian politicians.
Vicente Fox is sending his poor to America to send home money. Do you know for Mexican illegals to transfer money from America to Mexico, through financial instutions, there is a Mexican twenty percent surcharge? For every dollar sent to Mexico, banks, transfer agents and such, earn twenty cents.
Not much different in Canada, except their methodology is different. Canada is draining money out of America through Wall Street. This keeps the wheels of Canadian society, greased.
To be fair, England is doing the same through their numerous banking and financial institution in the Virgin Islands and region.
Everybody wants American money. Everybody is getting American money. Whose money? Ours.
Wall Street, banks, brokers, our government, just as bad here in America.
All are to blame. Average American citizens are to blame the most; we do nothing but bend over.
posted
"That the Administration's drive to privatize Social Security is untenable given the egregious violation of the public trust that our regulators' failure to enforce the rules represents."
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