SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Over the objection of Wall Street firms, Gov. Jon Huntsman signed a bill Friday that cracks down on naked short selling with state fines for brokers who accumulate too many unsettled trades in any company's shares.
The bill was written for Utah-based Internet retailer Overstock.com Inc., which complains it has been a target of a practice that traders dismiss as a tiny aberration in the markets.
"This bill is good for business, particularly small- and mid-sized cap companies," Huntsman's deputy chief of staff, Mike Mower, said Friday.
Tony Taggart, who handles litigation for the Securities Industry Association, had promised a lawsuit if Huntsman signed the bill, saying of the threat: "It's not a risk -- it will happen."
Taggart said the measure approved by the Utah Legislature late Wednesday caught the industry by surprise. He did not immediately return calls Friday.
"We dropped the ball, all the brokerage firms," said a financial adviser for a major Wall Street firm with operations in Salt Lake City, who insisted on anonymity because he was ordered by the company not to speak about the matter to reporters.
The bill's sponsor, Sen. Curtis Bramble, R-Orem, said Overstock.com was "the poster child" for victims of trading abuse. He said the bill could help other emerging companies that can be vulnerable to short selling.
Short sellers borrow stock hoping the share price declines so they can return it to brokers and pocket the difference. Overstock.com contends it has been a target of naked short selling, where brokers send IOUs they can't honor through a stock clearinghouse when they run out of shares to lend for short selling.
Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne says many brokers never settle these trades, allowing short sellers to profit without having to assume risk. The practice tends to lower a company's share price by artificially creating more sellers than buyers.
Bramble said brokerage houses never spoke up against the bill in the months it has been languishing at the Utah Capitol. It finally passed Wednesday during a special session with little debate.
The Utah law requires brokers to regularly disclose trades that fail to settle, adding to paperwork they say is bothersome. Fines for violations start at $10,000 a day and can increase to cover the sum total of all unsettled trades.
Utah Securities Director Wayne Klein said he was prepared to start enforcing the law July 1 and was looking into allegations of abusive short selling.
Klein said his investigation would go beyond Overstock.com's complaints to the lending of shares by brokers without the knowledge of a share's owner, which is allowed under standard customer contracts at brokerage firms.
Klein said it can result in two people voting on proxy proposals or for a company's directors when only one person is the legal share owner. He said some companies adjust for the problem by "prorating" extra votes to shares, but "if that happened in an election for political office, we'd all cry foul."
Shares of Overstock.com rose 65 cents, or 3 percent, to close Friday at $22.66 on the Nasdaq Stock Market.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
As some of you know, over the past few years I have sent out more than five-thousand emails, hundreds of snail mails, made lots of phone calls, to almost all in Washington, governors and all California politicians, either in support of or in opposition to a variety of topics.
I urge you to lobby Bush, Congress, Senate, governors, representatives, assemblypersons, news media, lobby to have this type of bill enacted in your home state.
You know I will. I expect you to do the same. Only takes a minute to write an email, does not take too long to copy your email and send it to various politicians whose email addresses are available online, your state offices or for National, here,
If you do nothing, do not dare come cry-babying to me about short selling and losing your money.
Kira
Posted by BuyTex on :
this is true...
All reps need to know more and more people are trading, and we expect rules n regs to be followed. The "powers" have had this world to themselves for centuries, now, and can't get used to the idea that the peeps are in the game for real...
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
"Shares of Overstock.com rose 65 cents, or 3 percent, to close Friday at $22.66 on..."
Pretend, will you? Suppose this type of bill is enacted in some states, a trend begins and more states make motions to enact a bill.
Based on Overstock gaining three percent as a result of the Utah law, should all markets, should a majority of stocks enjoy only a two percent gain, how much capital gain would this represent for share holders?
When the DOW gains two percent, what amount is the market capitalization gain in dollars?
Kira
Posted by Bob Frey on :
Thinking the dow is only like 3percent.
Other sectors may post larger gains?
Posted by glassman on :
it doesn't surprise me to see a truly Conservative State taking the initiative:
i too have written many letters to my Senators and Congressmen....
i have one of my accounts with a brokerage house that made 900 million NET profits one year since 2000 and paid no taxes that year at all.... in other words these guys know what they are doing. yet when i asked them about it? they denied any knowledge of naked shorting even as the SHO list rules were being prepared...
In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet they received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion. Almost as many companies, 42, paid no tax in 2002, reporting $43.5 billion in pretax profits, yet receiving $4.9 billion in tax rebates. From 2001 to 2003, the number of no-tax companies jumped from 33 to 46, an increase of 40 percent.
MY DD indicates that the brokerage houses are just as guilty as the market makers... in fact? it may very well be the *borkerage* houses that are doing it and the MMs just go along because they have no choice. being an "outsider"? i do not have access to the crucial data i need to make a final determination.
what i can say with confidence is that shares regularly come available on the market (particiularly otcbb and pinks) before they are actually issued... as soon as a company prepares the filings? the shares hit the market, even tho the shares will not be issued for months or are "restricted"...
SMTR was a perfect example that i watched every step of the way last year....
i am of the opinion that Bush's Social Security revamping was squashed because "privatisation" would have brought more government regulation of this practice in particular
Posted by glassman on :
here is a list of co's that have been "naked shorted" continuously for over 100 days:
note: the list has only been being compiled for 348 days....
does this qualify as counterfeiting?
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Glassman, you will recall a couple of years back during my last rant on naked short selling, some California state finance reports were provided showing a twelve-billion dollar deficit which was directly contributed to the "dot com bubble."
That is in our California financial reports. That is just for a single state.
Many who are not familiar with markets believe this was just over zealous investors. Nope. Most of what happened is a direct result of market manipulation and naked short selling. Manipulation through pump and dump scams, manipulation through naked short selling.
That is when I wrote several thousand emails on this to anybody and everybody. You will also recall I became involved in the Overstock and Pink Sheets dot com efforts, and prompted readers to participate.
This Utah bill is a direct result of that grass roots campaign many of us supported. We made a difference. Did you?
If you, the reader, do nothing, you will get nothing, save for the shaft sans KY Jelly.
I am absolutely burnt out on being screwed by Wall Street, and yes, as Glassman indicates, these crooks are not offshore types wearing Bermuda Shorts. These crooks are the well known investment firms, brokerage houses, financial institutions, banks and, most disgusting, our SEC and associated organizations.
Join Glassman, our friends and me. Get up, stand up, write, speak out, do your part to stop this raping of American families.
This is about the future of America's children, yes?
Kira
Posted by glassman on :
it's also about getting small corporate entities "off the ground"
needless to say? GE doesn't get naked shorted...
the next great "investment boom" SHOULD be the taking place right now in the bio-tech sector...
we are undergoing a major technical revulotion in science that makes the silicon "boom" look tame...
yet? i am watching dozens and dozens of small gene discovery companies failing to get investment capital. there is a lot of intellectual property being buried by the larger corporate players...
there is alot of politics involved, but the essence is that the major pharma co's don't really want "cures" they want to sell RX's every month....
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Reality Check.
Who is in charge of the SEC?
Christopher Cox. I ranted on this last year and urged readers to protest. He was confirmed anyhow, being Bush's main man.
Christopher Cox, amongst his history, was indicted for the worst Ponzi Scheme ever perpetrated in California. He was indicted in a case for ripping off thousands of the elderly for millions and millions of dollars.
Those elderly people lost everything.
He is a friend to Worldcom and Enron. Shortly after his indictment, he wrote and lobbied for laws which enabled Worldcom, Enron and others to perpetrate the greatest financial crimes of American history. Cox helped those crooks.
He is the chairman of the SEC.
This is what happens when you do not stand up in defense of our American ideals; you toss our children to the wolves.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Just think, Glassman, somewhere out there, chances are there is a tiny company, struggling, being pounded by Wall Street for financial greed, a tiny company on the verge of discovering a cure for many types of cancer, a cure which will never come because greed for money amongst the rich and elite, destroyed that tiny company.
Just think, a cure which might save the life of your child in the future, a cure never to be because of financial greed.
When you do nothing to better our world, you do, in fact, toss your children to the wolves.
Decades back my husband and me made a pact our child would never be poor, would never suffer poverty, would never go hungry, like we did.
Today, our girl is worth over two-million dollars. Nonetheless, she still has to work, she still must pay her way, she still must earn her keep.
She is learning how to fend for herself, how to fend for our future grandchildren.
What are you, the reader, doing for your kids?
Kira
Posted by BuyTex on :
ran across this awhile back, first return in Google --> "Christopher Cox defendant":
they may be loony tunes, I dunno...but perhaps a starting place for those wishing to learn the background of SEC boss...
Posted by glassman on :
Recently, the DTCC acknowledged that 1.5 percent of the dollar volume of stocks traded daily end up "fails to deliver," or FTDs. In all, those FTDs — dubbed "counterfeit" stocks by shorting foes — can tally as high as $6 billion a day Posted by renrob05 on :
glassman ...sorry off topic do you trade anymore? You don't post any pics? just wondering.
Posted by glassman on :
yes, i still trade... however? i am not currently trading any stocks that are volatile enought to justify posting...
i did get into a bunch of gold when it was obvious that oil wasn't coming back down below 50$ and that took a lot of my play money off the market.... and put some into my (expensive) glass melting equipment have you seen a natural gas or propane bill lately? LOL
unfortunatley i ended up (thru no fault of my own) in the deep deep south, so you can imagine how uncomfortable it might be to stand in front of a 2200 degree furnace bringing glass up to liquid state when it's 94 degrees by 11:00AM local time
think of it like superduper marshmallow roasting
i will probably have some stuff on e-bay later this year, but it's really hard to do glassart justice with photos... much less putting those photos online...they just don't have the same "sparkle"?
i refuse to post picks that i haven't done enough work on... even posting daytrades? i was using three monitors to find the picks and watching several service feeds and monitoring several services... before i "called one"
in other words? i wasn't just watching MSNBC and repeating what i heard...
i found most of my quick picks simply by using microcaptrade and dardog was who put me onto them.... the key to finding hot pennies is not share volume, it's number of trades..... Posted by BuyTex on :
OT: Glass, are you saying "volume" build charts, trades entices MMs?
for real...gotta good example from today that I'm trying to figure out,,,
Posted by bbramma on :
Nice post Purl on the Gov. signing bill SB3004 in my state today. Brent
Posted by TickTrader on :
Thanks for the posts, all. Wonderful news. Talk about dredging up old memories, wow.
Purl Gurl, the 'dot com bubble' was a work of art, IMO. Greenspan opened the door and legitimized the activity you so appropriately labeled, declaring the entire 'dot com' industry without value. That was... 1992??? Called to publicly expand on his unsupported opinion, he reiterated (word for word) his statement. I was able to exit my tech stocks with profits intact. What a sharkfest.
Concerning OTC (bb and pinks), most young folks don't realize that 'fail to deliver' came into existence with electronic trading - you either had a cert or you didn't. That concept remained intact - buy only, no short sell - for retail traders. Of course, to prevent overzealous investment from driving up a company's value, the powers were given unrestricted authority to sell short. And what a sharkfest this has been!
There are very important dates beginning to converge... this summer. This Utah bill is extraordinarily timely in that respect. With the otc short interest made public, it will be interesting to see if grandfathered FTDs are reported. I have yet to find evidence of these positions being closed out.
In defense of the SEC, there are employees that will go the distance with you to uphold regs - despite Cox. Or maybe because of him? Or maybe there really are good people that want to get it right? Since many of them are pre-Cox, I tend to go with the good people scenario.
Stepping off the soapbox... I could go on about this forever. Thanks again, all, for reminding me that others do care and actively work for improvement.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Pay no mind to my being in here at five in the morning. I know, I know, today is Saturday and a three day weekend. Financial world out there does not know this, however. You must work hard at this to be a winner.
Readers are cautioned, according to those in the know over in the NDOL thread, I am nothing more than a paid basher, so much so, one of them filed complaints with the SEC about my unlawful bashing.
Yes, Ticktrader, this all came to a head in the ninties, especially mid to late ninties. The California financial report I cite is 2000/2001 year and 2001/2002 year. Governor Gray Davis was terminated by Arnold, easily, because of public dissatisfaction, a public periodically sitting in darkness because of rolling blackouts.
I voted for Arnold. Turns out Arnold is no better and has only muscle between his ears and a history of groping women.
SHO and a NASD rule came along and you will find my name in SEC records sharing critical comments along with my articles here discussing this. Both rules were a step in the right direction but are toothless; those rules rely on self-reporting.
Net effect is some slowing down of naked shorting out of Canada, Bermuda Islands, Virgin Islands and other locations. However, Wall Street, which is all financial institutions across America, was empowered with a better ablility to naked short. Self-reporting does not work and there are no devices to enforce those new rules.
Almost all well known financial institutions are attempting to blackmail Utah. Most are threatening to remove offices from Utah and lawsuits are a certainty. Wall Street is whining and crying like one of the boys here, "How dare you tell the truth."
Every year and this is true, billions of dollars are removed from each state of our union through naked shorting and other scams. This money is moved offshore by Wall Street and politicians. Offshore American money is now approaching a good one-hundred-trillion dollars. A majority of politicians maintain offshore accounts to evade paying taxes. Dick Cheney, during the last election cycle, confessed to this as did Edwards of the Kerry-Edwards political team.
What happens? States become near bankrupt, our American families end up footing the bill despite false "tax cuts." Had Arnold Muscle Brains lobbied for laws to curtail financial crime as I urged him and California politicians to do, our financial crisis would be over and California would have a budget surplus. This did not and will not happen because politicians are in the pockets of Wall St.
My "false tax cuts" are clear to all save for those idiots who voted for Bush. Our president announces big tax cuts but conceals from America a majority of families pay more in taxes because of the hidden Alternative Minimum Tax rule.
Seems I am bird walking around topic wise, but all of this ties together. Bill Donaldson, former SEC chairman, was fired by Bush because Donaldson was doing a great job at cracking down on financial crimes. Donaldson was moving too close to nailing Bush and Wall Street for being the crooks they are.
Bush fires Donaldson and seats a known criminal, Christopher Cox, a man who will do everything in his power to enable more Worldcom and Enron type activities, and Cox will profit doing so. This problem of naked shorting, problem of financial crimes, both have increased under Cox and will continue to increase.
Do not ever believe our government, State and Federal are doing us any favors. An exception is the brave governor of Utah who is now in strong disfavor with Wall Street and Capitol Hill types. He will suffer for being a good and decent man.
Bottom line is ultimate responsibility for protecting America falls on our shoulders, your shoulders. You might think I should be a spin doctor, an art at which I am good. Nonetheless what I write about, what I rant about, is old fashion Davy Crockett common sense truth.
This responsibility we shoulder includes protecting our children's future. More of our American families are becoming bankrupt, more families are falling to poverty, more families cannot afford a home, more families cannot even afford to drive to work. This word "families" softens the impact, none care.
Each year more of our children fall to bankruptcy, more of our children fall to poverty, more of our children fall victim to financial crimes.
This word "children" changes the impact.
We of the Baby Boom generation effected the most radical changes in America of history, beginning with Rock N Roll and Vietnam. Now we are old and dying off. Our children will soon be alone and forced to fend for themselves. Who will protect our children, punk rockers and goth vampires?
When you, the reader, sit there on your fat McDonald's butt and do nothing, you, personally, are victimizing your children and all children. You are placing our children's future at risk.
Get up, stand up, take action. Writing some email, making some phone calls, urging others to help, is so effortless. Join some grassroots efforts and make a difference. Do this for our children.
Kira - paid basher
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Incidently, I hold the record here at Allstocks for the most SEC complaints against me being filed by participants here.
I am so frightened! Ignorant F-wads.
How disgusting, you sit there are on your growing fat butts while paid pump and dump scammers work Allstocks for all the money they can steal from our children and their futures; NDOL, GHLT ....
Who are filing those complaints against me? Guess!
Yes, I have a fat butt. However my fat butt is in action out here on the financial front lines. What is your butt doing?
Kira
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
I am still going forward with my complaint I started a few weeks back, as posted....I lost my temper when it became obvious that NITE Trading was selling Millions of shares of stock in a company that had not hit the date the shares were supposed to be available..Knight Trading was arrogantly dumping, and many of us watched them do it, many of us knew full well what NITE was up to..I bailed on the Stock out of Protest more than anything else.
The Irish in me refused to cool down and I began the process of obtaining legal council to advise me on the best course of action..
I went thru a Lawyer referal agency associated with the State of Oregon...Round and round I went till I finaly made contact with a legal clerk who put me in contact with a big shot Law Firm in Seattle Washington..
A lawyer actually called me and I was a bit startled by this fact..He was amased that I knew so little, and yet he was also amased that I understood so much..He did not charge me a dime and referred me to his secretary who explained to me how to go about writing the letter to the SEC Senators Congressman and such..
They also gave me a tip on a Lawyer here in Oregon to call, she said to make sure to call him, I think he was a friend of her Boss.
Well the lawyer is setting up the process for the letters to be written...For FREE! He said that Morgan Stanley [ Big Shot Wall Street Banking Firm ] has his attention on another matter and made the comment this activeity by these Banker/Brokers has got to stop!
Point to the above? Many of you may not think that anybody gives a Hoot about you, and the way we are continually ripped off in our investments.
If I can accomplish what I did with just a few phone calls, well, so can you...The little Guy has a mean left Hook and we can throw a Knockout punch! Just have faith in yourself, you really can make a differance, by just trying..Thankyou for reading.
BTW, NITE was fined over $70,000,000.00 for cheating.
[ May 27, 2006, 09:54: Message edited by: Dustoff101 ]
Posted by renrob05 on :
Whoever reported you is a small cowardly POS!!!
That's all i have to say.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
WOW PURL!!!!! THAT HAS ME PO'D!!!NO GOOD SLIMY RATS!!!!!!!!!COWARDS! NOW THAT REALLY GETS MY IRISH UP!
You must of really put a scare into um.. But ya know, it just might backfire on them....
Maybe they just put the light of day on themselves...Let um complain, The FBI, SEC does reverse STINGS all the time! These Bozo's may of only accomplished bringing the FBI down on themselves! LMAO!
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Lock and Load! We have a Beaucoup Dinki-Dau protest in the makings!
Supporting Dustoff, I also was really surprised by a local politician, our city mayor.
Completely unrelated, while back I joined a grassroots campaign to stop a California Smog Bill. This bill removes the "30 Year Rolling" exemption from smog testing for cars 30 years old and older.
I, our family, are very strong supporters of clean air laws, we are tree huggers. However, some of our politicians wanted antique cars to be outfitted with smog devices, cars dating back even to the earliest of Model T Fords. How lame! These are cars rarely driven, almost alway trailered to car shows and events. These are classic beauties which are literally never driven. Oh no, our ignorant politicians claim those classic antiques are the largest source of smog in our state!
Protest moved the smog test cutoff up to 1958 car years. Still way lame. How often do you see a 1950 something car on the road? Never?
Anyhow, amongst hundreds of letters I wrote one was to our city mayor. I deliberatey left out our names, remained anonymous, because we know the mayor, have for years, he and city council have been to our home, many times. We even hold fund raisers for our mayor. Nonetheless, good ethics dictate I not play political games nor ask for political favors. No signatures on our letter asking him to contact Arnold Muscle Head and ask Arnold to not sign the smog bill.
Why? Because not having a 30 year rolling exemption for smog tests adds cars to the state database rather than remove them. This creates a growing database and creates a need to hire more people at the Department of Motor Vehicles, which costs tax payers more. Another problem is including antique classic cars in smog testing shuts down the classic car industry, a multi-billion dollar business. EPA rules on "paint" for cars forced all custom car painters to move over into Arizona, as a comparison example. California lost a major source of tax revenue while suffering deficits.
Back to Dustoff, our mayor wrote back and addressed us by name because he recognized our address. He wrote to tell us he supported our efforts and had contacted Arnold Muslce Brain to lobby him.
There you go! Just like Dustoff we received unexpected support out-of-the-blue. Sometimes, all that is needed is support from a key person.
The smog law was changed to only include 1976 and newer cars. Some benefit. Arnold, however, screwed up again. This time him exempted all cars six years old and newer from smog testing. What happened? Nitrous powered rice rockets slapped together by teenagers, cars which _each_ produce more smog than all cars in a NASCAR race event. Not only did Arnold enable the absolute worst smog making cars of history, he also enabled thousands of teenage deaths each year through rice rocket street racing.
Support like Dustoff received, support like we received on smog issues, can come from out of nowhere. However, you must take action or that support will never be realized.
Look around, you and all families are being ripped off for billions of dollars each year by financial crime. Some of those criminals are right here, right now, at Allstocks.
Are you just going to sit there and let those criminals screw you and your children?
Kira
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
This word "children" changes the impact.
We of the Baby Boom generation effected the most radical changes in America of history, beginning with Rock N Roll and Vietnam. Now we are old and dying off. Our children will soon be alone and forced to fend for themselves. Who will protect our children, punk rockers and goth vampires?
When you, the reader, sit there on your fat McDonald's butt and do nothing, you, personally, are victimizing your children and all children. You are placing our children's future at risk.
Get up, stand up, take action. Writing some email, making some phone calls, urging others to help, is so effortless. Join some grassroots efforts and make a difference. Do this for our children.
Kira - paid basher
------------------------------------------------
Damn Gurl, CLANG! fine job of hitting the nail square on the Head...Think about your Children people, Big Time.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Dustoff, "We Were Soldiers" writes,
"But ya know, it just might backfire on them...."
Referencing pump and dump scammers here at Allstocks threatening to and reporting posters to the SEC for alleged "bashing."
This is a typical, very typical tactic of criminals. When a person writes a warning about a scam stock, those criminals will instantly attack the person through insults, degrading comments and especially threats of legal action via lawsuits and SEC complaints. They will do anything to silence you.
A person over in the NDOL thread reported me not only to the SEC but also to the company.
Most delightful, all I wrote about NDOL stock proved to be true and precisely on target.
I have noted the major pump and dump scammers have vanished from that thread when the stock crashed and investors lost their money. Exact same happened in the GHLT thread.
The crooks got their money and left. They will be back, though, using different false monikers.
Sure, these threats by criminals will, in time, backfire. These are not very bright boys.
The SEC is not interested in this type of crap; they do not have the time nor staff to deal with such petty events. The SEC looks at stock for which _hundreds_ of complaints come in and some actual damage is easy to see.
These idiot pump and dump scammers are so stupid they do not realize before any action of any type can be taken, real and actualized damage must be effected and demonstated; no damage, no crime.
How on Earth can one person, such as me, effect damage on a stock through a handful of postings at a single stock discussion board? You know, in both the NDOL thread and the GHLT thread, I was blamed for both stocks crashing.
How absolutely stupid is that! I am powerful! I hold control over the stock markets! I am the Witch of Wall Street!
Returning to back firing, in time, this will happen. Fortunately Cox does not control email. Little People, honest people at the SEC read email. I know. I have emailed with many at the SEC, have talked on the phone with SEC people, from low level clerks to SEC lawyers; they know me well and probably groan when they hear my name.
These pump and dump scammers alert the SEC to "something" going on. Should the SEC look, they will notice "something is not right" about a stock. They will note classic signals of a pump and dump scam in operation. The SEC, instead of going after the falsely accused basher, will start looking at the person complaining about bashers, falsely. These ignorant criminals are, in effect, turning themselves in.
These ignorant criminals also do not realize their false accusations to companies, to the SEC, leaves a paper trail with which one of their victims can use to litigate for injury caused by false accusations of being a basher.
Pfftt.... nothing ever comes of these events. The SEC is not interested, companies will not touch these not wanting to draw attention to their pump and dump schemes. Criminals only create a record of their false accusations.
Sometimes, rarely, a real paid basher is caught and sanctioned or sued. This is rare requiring lots of documentation of wide spread aggressive "bashing" which inflicts demonstrated damage.
These events are extremely rare.
Paid bashers work for shorters. Pump and dump scammers work for the stock company. Honest stock discussion participants work for the benefit and good of all.
A side note is both paid bashers and paid pumpers most often work for brokerage houses and market makers; Wall Street.
Never allow these crooks to fighten you; they are nothing but laughable.
Again, all of this well exemplifies there are crooks right here amongst us at Allstocks. They are attempting to and are ripping you off.
They are robbing your children of a secure future.
So, are you going to take action or toss your children to these wolves?
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
I will add I am far from the only person known by the SEC for taking action against financial crimes and such.
Glassman, Tex, Blue, Dustoff, Keithsan and others whose monikers I cannot remember, are also known to the SEC. For many of us, you will find public records on SEC websites showing us participating in "request for comments" about proposed SEC rules.
Readers will also find us involved with the DTCC and NASD, along with Pink Sheet Com inspired actions.
Many of us write to politicians, to Bush, to governors and other politicians, frequently.
Readers will also discover us writing to companies, writing to CEO types, and referring to them as idiots and crooks. Ha! We are fearless!
We, Glassman, Tex, Blue, Dustoff, Keithsan and the rest of our coherts, are old time and very active stock traders. We are known. We are not famous nor notable, but we are known to the powers that be, known for our efforts to prevent and stop financial crimes.
I am not alone. I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with my friends and fighters. We are a team, we work together, we watch each other's backs.
Rather ignorant to accuse people of bashing, accuse people of crime, accuse people who have a long documented history of fighting financial crime, year after year.
Very ignorant, indeed.
Kira
Are not you boys glad I decided to stay rather than vanish again?
* sounds of groans from the Peanut Gallery *
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Hey Whale! It's raining like Hell up here, I told you we had a SEA LION problem, not a damn drought! Put that whammy thingamajigger on the Sea Lions, not the CLOUDS!! Geeezz, I'm moving vehicles to higher ground!
------------------------------------------------- Posted this on another thread as well! Please Whale, "Can you ever Stop the RAIN!" LOL
Posted by BuyTex on :
I think paid bashing is much more rare than "we" online traders collectively like to admit. Offhand, I can think of only one documented, prosecuted case: the Elgindy affair, involving six or eight co-conspirators, including the disgraced (ex)FBI agent... Oddly enough, Elgindy once operated near here, mere minutes' drive time from my neighborhood. He had a home further north, in a development so gaudy, so pretentious, such an outrageous cookie-cookie paean to tax-base ostentatiousness that we have come to regard them as "McMansions." Alas, we know not where he will next lay head to pillow: the May 2 sentencing hearing appears to have been delayed or extended...
Much more common--in the sense of proven, prosecuted--are the organized pump-n-dump schemers. Some of those principals are even "famous" and (as you suggest) have been among us from time to time. Alas, the low-octane, garden-variety pumper is, like poverty, with us always. Easily recognizable by the outlandish claims and passionate purple prose devoid of fact or even well crafted line-of-reason, these types are relatively harmless, in the sense that a few pointed questions are usually sufficient to alert anyone who gives half-a-damn about their trading choices. Stepping up a notch, more insidious are those who strike a "basher" pose on a given stock or thread, then go on to offer "real plays" or perhaps even instruction in "how to trade for real bucks." Common earmarks are the necessity of "joining my chat room" or similar tactics to cut the newbie "from the herd." I liken their behavior to s t a l k e r s and abusers who want to control their partners' movement and access to family and friends.
Overall, the real threat remains the "big boys." Although naked shorting may *not* be as perniciously pervasive as the pie-eyed critics claim, I must wonder why the DTCC's subsidiary NSCC has in effect been granted pardon-in-advance for any future crimes... I understand the argument that MMs need to be able to short in order make a market, but why is the 13-day clock allowed to be "rewound" again and again... If we can't short, how can offshore accounts be allowed to? Those "borrowed" shares have to come from somewhere, eh? Who loans them? I "get it" that shutting down and rug-sweeping the occassional GVRP may be more efficient than allocating scarce resources to undertake a full-blown prosecution. But then how is it those same principals are allowed access to their dubious assets in order to transfer them to yet another shell? Wouldn't it make sense to simply shut down the whole operation? Forget the Pinks: Let's say Coulson's new three-tier plan will work, and leave it that. Good ol' self regulation...So howz about devoting real resources to the hedgies...a real threat to real investment dollars... why are they attacked piecemeal, rather than douched out as an industry?
Many questions, few answers...
However, a few answers are much better than no questions...when enough people ask enough questions, perhaps they can become election issues.
[ May 27, 2006, 18:52: Message edited by: BuyTex ]
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tex drawls while riding the range,
"when enough people ask enough questions, perhaps they can become election issues."
Darn tootin! The Utah bill passage is a direct result of people talking, pissing and moaning. Took a couple of years, but there it is!
Timing is perfect. With Enron boys looking at life in prison, Utah cracking down, these events send a strong message we are pissed off.
No doubt Wall Street will press court action to invalid the Utah law but this will draw more attention to the real problem; corruption.
No matter the outcome, Wall Street is being exposed for being organized crime enabled by the Capital Hill gang. Some of those fat cats over there on Wall Street are nervous, just as a bunch of members of Congress are nervous.
Real chicken sh!t of Bush to seal those documents on the latest scandals. Like sixty-thousand dollars wrapped in tin foil in a politician's freezer is not legitimate evidence of corruption.
I mention this because of an analogy. Our 2008 election is a guaranteed win for Democrats, not because Democrats are good people but rather because the Republicans have destroyed themselves.
Wall Street, the SEC, the whole gang are facing analogous circumstances. America is pissed off and looking to skin some fat cats. The rich and elite are now witnessing the birth and growth of private investors, via the internet, slowly becoming a powerful lot with political clout.
Wall Street corruption has put into motion a grassroots movement to slap around Wall St.
Changes will be slow to come but events of late have accelerated changes; screw with us, you face live in prison.
I agree, Tex, with your opinion on the GRVP / GLUV comedy. No big deal, we each lost a few hundred. Shoot, that happens all the time. Yes, not worth the SEC time nor taxpayer money to chase after this one. Those boys have been tossed into limbo. Doubtful they will be back.
What a mess we made of Wall Street! Lots of publicity, newspaper articles, enough sh!t to spread around all over Wall Street.
We kicked their sorry butts, yes?
Lot of Karma involved. We tried to put the big short squeeze on them, they tried to defraud us and in the end, a wash. Well a draw except we can continue to trade and those boys are gone.
Telling ya, people, all you have to do is stand up and speak out to make a difference. Utah is clear evidence this works.
Kira
Posted by glassman on :
i predict we'll have many more cases to consider before the elections this fall.....
it's funny in a way.....
the two parties will now do their best to throw as much mud as they can and wait to see what sticks....
Frist has insider trading problems, delay is toast...
Jefferson offices being searched sets a new precedent in the separation of powers, and may very well be the beginning of all-out war between Capitol Hill and the White House...
there are some subtleties here that people don't seem to realise yet...
Bush and Cheney have stepped on toes with this one... it doesn't matter whether Jefferson is guilty or not, ( i suspect he is) the Congress will strike back, and strike hard.
if there was ever a time for a new political party to emerge in the US now is that time....
Bush has overseen more incompetence and more flagrant disregard for the constitutin than any other president in history... the Veterans Data theft is just another major screw-up on his watch...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Posted Friday, Jan. 06, 2006 Washington's power players have always bragged about being well-wired, but for disgraced former congressman Duke Cunningham, "wired" wasn't just a figure of speech. In a week when legislators are focused on the question of who else might be brought down by ex-lobbyist Jack Abramoff’s cooperation with prosecutors as he seeks lenient sentencing over his two federal guilty pleas this week, sources tell TIME that in a separate investigation, ex-Rep. Cunningham wore a wire to help investigators gather evidence against others just before copping his own plea.
Sources familiar with the situation say Cunningham, a California Republican who pleaded guilty Nov. 28 to taking $2.4 million in bribes—including a yacht, a Rolls Royce and a 19th-century Louis-Philippe commode—from a defense contractor, wore a wire at some point during the short interval between the moment he began cooperating with the feds and the announcement of his guilty plea on Nov. 28.
The identity of those with whom the San Diego congressman met while wearing the wire remains unclear, and is the source of furious—and nervous—speculation by congressional Republicans. A Cunningham lawyer, K. Lee Blalack, refused to confirm or deny the story, and wouldn't say whether Cunningham will implicate any other members of Congress. The FBI is believed to be continuing its probe of defense contractors involved in the Cunningham case. An FBI spokesman declined comment. Asked whether Cunningham, an ace Navy fighter pilot decorated for his service in Vietnam, had worn a wire, the spokesman said the response from a higher-up was, "Like I'd tell you."
—With reporting by Brian Bennett/Washington
------------------------------------------------- This one absolutly made me sick...
Duke was a stand up Fighter Ace in Nam....
Posted by TickTrader on :
Me thinks you guys/gals are out of my league. I would be spread to thin - saving the world, the environment, political reform... Even the wall street sharks would eat my lunch and ask for seconds.
I can't fix a broken pipe, so I pay a plumber. You won't find my contributions to the SEC, or anyone else, because I pay an attorney.
You won't find my negative posts on stocks that I don't own. Yes, opinion from experienced traders can be rewarding; but, with 'giving opinion' comes 'accepting responsibility' for inaccurate statements - up to and including libel. I have more to say on that, but my intention is not to incite or criticize.
Reading this thread, there are several points raised that prompted me to 'mentally' comment. Each time, I had the same reaction... It's not what/who you see, it's what/who is missing.
BuyTex, you are right about fewer 'paid' bashers. Over time it has not been necessary to pay 'the herd' because they have been conditioned to perform 'free of charge'. Offer a 'hot tip' and away they go. And who's been missing? Peeps flying the Investor Relations flag? Oh my, look at the new regulations that popped up for those folks. Regardless, there are exponentially more 'unpaid' bashers/pumpers than there ever were 'paid' bashers/pumpers.
My point is, still, look for what's missing. Here is an unrelated, yet completely obvious, example from a recent poster. The first two lines from the post...
File a Paivis SEC Complaint, Very Important
That you ask for.
Do you think the sentence structure is intentional? Don't you wonder what the complete instructions were for this poster? If somebody is paying this fool, they have wasted their money.
On another subject, we see a lot of this...
'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!
The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is. But we don't 'see' that. Why would NITE expose himself like that? He wouldn't. Instead, pay attention to bid, you don't see the naked plays because it is hidden on the sell side of bid.
Good companies, companies with future potential are the ones that are most viciously attacked with shorts and paid bashing. They represent change in money flow, change is process, new competition for established business - already struggling to meet expectations. And who is missing? That one is too easy.
One bite at a time - chew thoroughly, and swallow. It's slow, but effective, in exposing and correcting abusive trading practices. I'm a bit pre-Baby Boom, so my methods may seem trite.
One thing I choose to disclose... My children are smarter, wiser, more capable, and effective than I ever dreamed of being (past, present, and future). What's missing? They are not a product of the school system (now pushing ignorant herd mentality). Pre-Baby Boom, the bywords were 'sharing' and 'compassion'. Baby Boomers? Wasn't that 'consensus' and 'committee'? Individual efforts fruitless? We all have conditioning to overcome, I suppose. My problem is that I still care. That said, my kids tell me I'm wasting my time on allstocks. They're probably right.
Posted by glassman on :
'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!
The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position
let's see if i'm reading you 5X5 here?
sounds like you are saying NITE doesn't "naked short?"
scroll down to page four, and look at Liabilities and Stockholders’ Equity
then check out the line: Securities sold, not yet purchased, at market value: compare this quarters 505,315,801$ to last quarters 345,457,499$ and you'll see they are getting deeper into the FTD problem...
i don't think the MM's are the real culprit tho.... they are just caught in the middle...
as far as your commentary on the follow the herd stuff? i tend to agree....
i think (hope) historians will look back on this era as the DISinformation age as opposed to the dawn of the informatin age... cuz if they don't? it will mean things didn't get better....
Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:My problem is that I still care.
Well, tick, you found a good group to waste your time with...
quote:The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is. But we don't 'see' that. Why would NITE expose himself like that? He wouldn't. Instead, pay attention to bid, you don't see the naked plays because it is hidden on the sell side of bid.
Inherent/implied/inferred: Trade time is *not* the time to rock the boat; MMs are better, have more toys...however you wanna think of it; sure, "Protect Capital" is the first rule--the other first rule is trade with the MMs, not against. When I realize I've entered a position contrary to MM interest? I'm out quicker than Tonto could say Kemasabe...
That being said, I do think it's worthwhile to at least jot a few notes each quarter, to a senator here and a banking-committee member there...perhaps an editor or two. Doesn't have to become a "personal mission" to have an effect...
Anyway, *we're* glad you're here, tick--tell your kids we promise not to pitch any chinchilla ranches...
[ May 27, 2006, 18:26: Message edited by: BuyTex ]
Posted by TickTrader on :
roflmao... well said!
i think (hope) historians will look back on this era as the DISinformation age as opposed to the dawn of the informatin age... cuz if they don't? it will mean things didn't get better....
No, glassman, that was not my intention. Substitute any MM initials you want, I should have used XYZD. All of the big money MMs naked short. Some of the little guys try for awhile, but they don't have the... hmmm... how to say? ...connections to make it profitable?
Posted by glassman on :
i think you are "dead on" about many smaller companies being destroyed by the larger ones...
i think there's much more "paid bashing" goin' on at the so-called business "news" cable channels than there is online tho..... Posted by TickTrader on :
These differences are worth efforts to determine on any investment/trade...
1. Situations where naked shorting is used as vicious bear attack against viable or struggling business. It takes a lot of collusion and manipulation to maintain the short position.
2. Situations where naked shorting is used to drive the pps down for 'personal gain' for any number of factions. For example, knowledge of events (such as CD conversion).
3. Honest, no kidding, maintaining market liquidity.
4. Here...
'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!
The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is.
... classic pump and dump. And it can only occur with the blessing/participation of MMs. There's nothing invisible here, both sides of the trade are present and accounted for.
Posted by TickTrader on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think there's much more "paid bashing" goin' on at the so-called business "news" cable channels than there is online tho.....
Great point, too true. Bulletin boards are just the trickle down effect, for the most part. More basher-bang for your buck?
Posted by BuyTex on :
re:
2. presumably, traders can not be involved when the issue is a penny...
4. on the other hand, in such an example, you posit trader complicity?
Posted by TickTrader on :
Correct, BuyTex, on both points. The average retail trader only benefits by being on the buy side at the right time. No magic will change that.
Am I accusing MMs, companies and insider/retail traders of fixing the action? Well, ... yeah.
Posted by TickTrader on :
glassman, I saved that filing for later looksee. You gave me a thought to follow up on with that. Thanks.
Posted by BuyTex on :
fascinating, TT...
although not beyond the realm of possibility that such schemes might be tried here, given the number of views...
How might something like that work, in your general view or experience? In other words, not saying "let's go to the mat with current events," lol, but merely by way of example: Company A has employee/contractor B do thus-and-such, knowing firm C will react such-and-thus?
One reason I ask is, I'm like "the kids" in many respects--have traded only since decimalization. Hence, your background/experience is valuable...
Posted by TickTrader on :
Hi BuyTex,
The problem with biting off more than I can chew and swallow results from trying to apply one set of circumstances to generalize another situation. It's impossible to do. Consider this - there's a long line of folks, toes on the line and waiting for the bell - their goal is the average investor's wallet. Each has their own plan to get there first, just as retail traders develop their own strategy to realize gain.
Examples... hedge funds don't even have to work for it, wallets are freely given, along with pension funds, IRAs, education accts, etc. So to establish the groundwork, investors must realize that their 'position power' is automatically negated by the institution that lends those shares as if they belong to them. This is why I find Utah's bill so fascinating and refreshing. Not the bill itself, but their forward intentions.
Now look at electronic trading. The online broker negates a position, DTC will loan against the same position, and SEC regs allow MMs/BDs a percentage of OS to short. Not % of float, but % of OS. Follow me here, because absolutely every position taken so far is legal, it has nothing to do with FTD.
Practical application... a company has TWO investors with 100 shares. Over time, more sharks (shortees) jump in the water. One investor, tired of seeing his stock sit or slowly trickle away, decides to sell. Next day, investor scratches head wondering why he didn't wait one more day... his 100 shares would have been worth a fortune. Investor never realizes how his sell created the need for buy-to-cover, but moves on to find another company to invest in.
Personal satisfaction - sometimes I get to be the one selling at the top. No worries about leaving a retail trader high-and-dry. I like to sell to the short-sharks so they can cover their hides.
But that's not really what you want to know, so here it is... Rather simple, trusty guru with string of successful picks comes up with a real winner. By now has developed quite a following. Has (IMO) too much money on the line for otc, holds too many shares. Pump, pump, bit of resistance at psychological levels, where guru is selling off for early gains. Small pullback, more buying because guru is still excited. Another 100 - 200% gains, more guru sell off. Before a sub-penny reaches .01, that guru is out. Checks in from time to time, spreading the cheer, while the MM is making money shorting all the way down again. Not all people are losers, some profit more than others, but the whole thing is a fix. Classic. Wait for new blood and do it all over again.
I'm saying, bold as bear, that this would NOT EVER happen without cooperation.
Posted by TickTrader on :
BuyTex, I left a few points out intentionally.
Posted by BuyTex on :
Intentionally, * I* say--you bring up points re which I'm ignorant...
lol, shall I spell them out?
Posted by glassman on :
TT, i played a serious screwup otcbbb stock (not GVRP tex) and "learned" that the brokers are most probably counting on fast trading/ high rate of share turnover in online margin accounts...
like bookies deciding whether to cover the bets or lay them off ....
i won't get into specifics, but my deduction (this is a guess) was that an online broker wasn't even actually acquiring and putting the shares into my margin account.
i watched a play unfold where there were only 5 million shares in the OS... a couple-hundred million "counterfeit shares" got on the market somehow (that story has yet to be resolved)
the brokers managed to buy-in during the two weeks before the SEC suspended trading... they got the warning from the SEC that the shares were counterfeit and the price went crazy when the brokers finally started to actually buy the "counterfeit" shares... even tho they knew they were "counterfeit"? they had to have them in our accounts before trading was suspended or they would never be able to produce them for the court case to follow... they went from .0005 to 6 cents in a two week window....
i sold into the run and held a few to see how this plays out, but the only common sense deduction i could come up with is that a lot of brokers are not even trying to make sure the shares are ever delivered to ONLINE margin accounts, cuz they expect them to be flipped when the price moves either up or down... no doubt they have programs that track their actual exposure and alert them when they need to start buying, but it appears to me that margin accounts are just slush funds...
GVRP was a different one that also showed a couple brokerage houses that were not waiting on delivery of shares before they allowed trading....
Posted by BuyTex on :
g-eyed-bozo?
mail full...
Posted by glassman on :
fixed
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Glassman confesses,
"...my margin account."
Bad, BAD! You are a bad boy!
Kira
Posted by glassman on :
LOL, only one, never used the margin just wanted it for the flipping..... they have these stupid settlement rules if you don't have margin.. which makes sense if they aren't ever actually putting the shares in your acct, huh?
BTW? why does it take three days to settle a trade? they get the cash out of my checking acct when i write a check in 5 minutes
heck i don't even carry a debt on my credit cards but i still use 'em....
Posted by BuyTex on :
bad bad...
bmhc!
(new acronym = Bumping My Head on the Ceiling)
as though this were surprise ...
Posted by TickTrader on :
glassman, I've seen the same things. You trade pennies in a margin account? You are one brave soul.
Oh, and my online cash accounts? I've interrupted some funny things when hitting Bal/Pos refresh. Not churning, not sure what the deal is when that happens.
I think we've seen most every scenario laid out by the peeps originally opposed to electronic trading. Not so funny, huh?
Posted by TickTrader on :
One thing the brokers and MMs better get used to... long-term traders, like me, are here to stay. Seeing red on a good stock is eye candy. They can keep 'em coming.
Urban legends are being exposed... no serious investor trades pennies, pennies are only good for daytrading, all pennystock companies are worthless, settle for small gains and be happy, never put new money into a losing trade, get a margin account...
Oh, yeah, get a margin account so we can knock you out of the ballpark and into bankrupcy court.
Posted by glassman on :
no, a lot of the things i've seen? not funny at all....
i didn't set the account up as margin....
but i got the margin after i had acheived certain goals... i would never borrow money to trade with, but with the cash account? they wouldn't let me trade as often as i wanted to....
i have one account with a human broker that makes as much as i do on trades when i take 20%... the guy is a horses petutie too.... and his advice sux
i was using microcapfeed for about two years, saw how the MM's bump the ask as soon as a PR comes out.... volume or not, didn't matter, they raised just because there was a PR...
for a long time? i ran a screener set to find stock with 20 to 30% volume increases above the 30 day moving average volume WITH a LESS than 10% PPS change....
found the pump and dump plays while the pumpers were accumulating... usually? the pump came about two weeks to a month after the highest volume days ( i guess they let the chart settle back down a bit?)... they appear to be running GTC limit buy orders for weeks at a time and the volume spikes ususally only happened once or twice, so i had to take alot of notes and track as many 50 or 60 stocks at a time.... but i spotted plenty of P&D's before they ever got posted on a BB
glassblowing is more rewarding.... at least at the end of the day? i actually make soemthing other than some numbers in computer somewhere.....
Posted by glassman on :
Ticktrader... i see you were watching PAIV....
that' a different one from what i was referring to as well... looks like somebody screwed up there too.....
ameritrade seems to have a track record of allowing bad shares to get to the market?
Posted by TickTrader on :
Watching PAIV? Oh, no. Got $$ in that one. And ameritrade may take the blame for this, but it isn't their doing. Not this time.
The time you spent on researching those screens will pay off for years to come. Interesting, those are the stocks I try to avoid unless I want to play around with short term cash. Wish newbies would take the time to dig into a system before they blindly follow someone. Call me a dreamer.
On the flip side, I like my longs discovered through dd and totally undiscovered by bbs.
Gotta go, and thanks for the old memories refresh.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Tick Trader, I'm more of a Nasdaq, Amex trader..
The Liquidity and Transparency make for an easier ride. Trading tools that are set-up for the main market, can really help when trading is fast. An example: Quote Scope and Graphics.
Is the feed to Quote Scope faster than L2'S? or is it just my interpitation? I have also noticed the Graphic feed seems to be faster,[by a few seconds,] than standard L2'S
I do however from time to time jump back into the OTCBB'S OTC'S.
As far as manipulation goes? I've seen some mighty blatent shinanigans in the Big Boards..
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Dustoff, have you noticed the big boys are getting more brazen about the manipulation on major exchanges? I always thought that MMs were wannabe WS suits, but it appears the suits are trying to take notes from OTC MMs.
Do you use the tools to daytrade? Or just to find a good entry/exit point? I don't daytrade (occassionally), so intraday isn't a concern for me. The difference you notice may actually be your own learning style. You may interpret graphics faster than print. L2s from Ameritrade don't show the whole line-up either, so Quote Scope may be catching that to give a more complete picture of movement.
Someone pointed out the new analyzer tool in a post, was that you? I checked it out the next day. Put my heart in my throat. Several of my longs showed up... red, red, red ... really red. What does this mean? Really, really red, all day long? Are you supposed to sell? Those particular stocks gapped up at open, so does this mean gappers are not accounted for? They still closed higher than previous day close, but stayed pegged in the red on that thing. Promised my heart not to do that again.
OTCBBs are my favorites, better gains and you get the transparency that comes with majors. I moved a small % to pinks only because of the Sarb.Ox. requirements. There are some good companies that have no choice but to move to pinks because of the expense involved. Before that, a pink had to be really special to get my attention.
I rate stocks based on dd, here's a few written in stone... pinks -1 Amex -2 Solid OTCBB hidden or misclassified +3
And this one is new, as of yesterday... Incorporated in Utah +2 Inc. in Utah as of May, 2006 +3
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
A very long list of naked shorted stocks.
Some readers will recognize IESV stock. Many of us are vested in this one. My estimation is naked shorts are being sold at a rate at least ten times the actual number of IESV shares in the float. This has been happening for months and months.
These are counterfeit shares being sold to people, shares which simply do not exist.
What is the SEC doing? Absolutely nothing just as I indicated would happen long before regulation SHO took effect.
"ROBERT SHAPIRO, CHAIRMAN, SONECON: Very large customers, principally hedge funds, are being permitted to short-sell stocks without ever delivering the shares and without ever having to borrow the shares."
Two years back I discussed SHO and the NASD rule both have loop holes designed to benefit Wall Street and the rich. SHO and the related NASD rule were intentionally written to screw the public and reward Wall Street. My opinion still stands the SEC is so corrupt as to be nothing more than organized crime.
What do expect with a known criminal as the chairman of the SEC, thanks to George Bush.
Financial crime is increasing. In time, you will be defrauded of your money. Do you care? I do not think you people even care, as long as you are making money. First time you are defrauded, I am sure you will cry-baby,
"Something should be done about this."
So, what is your problem you do not take action, now?
Kira
Posted by TickTrader on :
Purl Gurl, good post (link).
IESV - I don't own it, but looking at the quote, what's up with that? last trade = 0.0539 on May 26
52 week range .004 - .011
B/A .053/.0539
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
IESV is simply being naked shorted by major brokers such as Schwab, Lynch, Morgon Stanley and many others. No doubt major hedge funds are in there.
How many known Schwab, a few years back, was connected to money laundering through Dubai, U.A.E, financial facilities? This money laundering was performed for Islamic terrorists. Funds were derived directly from naked shorting through naked shorting enabled by Schwab accounts.
U.A.E ring a bell? How about Dubai? Some of these companies involved in terrorist money laundering through Schwab, are the same companies involved with the Bush-Dubai Port deal. Bush intended to place those associated with Islamic terrorists in charge of some of our major ports.
Are you so naive to not realize Islamic terrorists are deriving funds through naked short selling?
Oh sure, Kira is a kook, Kira is crazy, next she will claim the Grays From Space are behind naked short selling.
If not, carry on with your greed and your screwing your children out of a secure future.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Forgot to ask, what will your children do when Social Security is no more and they simply must fend for themselves, simply must plan for their retirements, long after we are dead?
Maybe they will follow Bush's advice and give their money to Wall Street criminals? Perhaps your children will try to invest to secure a decent future?
Who will support your children after Wall Street has defrauded them of their life savings?
Do you care? Guess this does not matter because you will be dead anyhow. No big deal, as long as this does not affect you, personally.
Kira
Posted by TickTrader on :
Purl, hope I didn't set you off. But you know what? IESV was not my pick last year or so far this year. Now I did say that I don't post negatives on stocks that I don't own. Let me post a positive... treat this stock as a new deal effective May 22, 2006.
Question... is it seriously shorted, or do they have more old CDs and restricted shares hitting the market?
BTW, why is a Canadian entity so gung-ho to battle U.S. naked shorting? TIA
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Canada is a major source of naked shorting.
Canada, like Mexico, is leeching money out of America. Canadian governments turn a blind eye to naked shorting because the money is good, Canadian citizens benefit and this garners votes for Canadian politicians.
Vicente Fox is sending his poor to America to send home money. Do you know for Mexican illegals to transfer money from America to Mexico, through financial instutions, there is a Mexican twenty percent surcharge? For every dollar sent to Mexico, banks, transfer agents and such, earn twenty cents.
Not much different in Canada, except their methodology is different. Canada is draining money out of America through Wall Street. This keeps the wheels of Canadian society, greased.
To be fair, England is doing the same through their numerous banking and financial institution in the Virgin Islands and region.
Everybody wants American money. Everybody is getting American money. Whose money? Ours.
Wall Street, banks, brokers, our government, just as bad here in America.
All are to blame. Average American citizens are to blame the most; we do nothing but bend over.
"That the Administration's drive to privatize Social Security is untenable given the egregious violation of the public trust that our regulators' failure to enforce the rules represents."
Are you so naive to not realize Islamic terrorists are deriving funds through naked short selling?
Purl, I'm sure they have their toes on the line before the bell, too. It's just that we have enough homeboys sticking it to us that I doubt those (bleep)(bleep)(bleeps) see any profits from it. In fact, there's so much middle east money invested here that I wouldn't be surprised if they're in the same boat we are. Along with China, India, Japan... they already own a large percentage of the U.S.
Aw, don't get me started on Social Security - the mother and father of all evil. It needs to be gone. Scat. We prepared, my kids are prepared, and now I'm working on my grandkids.
In the meantime, one documented case of abuse leads to reforms that support many. The time is right for reform. All that huffing and puffing by large lenders over Utah? Where they gonna go? Utah is just the beginning. Let 'em eat cake.
Posted by TickTrader on :
Purl, all of you are faster at this posting thing than I am.
IESV - there's just something not right about the numbers.
This is very important!!! There are two reasons for a stock to show up on the 'fail to deliver' list... naked short AND naked long.
If you want, I'll go back till the beginning of time on those filings and track the share count. SEC goes back to Mar 2000.
The thing is, I see a lot of debt coming to a head, plus stuff like this...
During the nine months ended March 31, 2006, the Company:
- Issued 545,128 shares of common stock in exchange for accounts payable and accrued expenses of $21,008.
- Issued 6,363,637 shares of common stock in exchange for long-term debt of $350,000.
During the nine months ended March 31, 2005, the Company issued common stock in exchange for services, prepaid assets and debt of $587,023.
... but I don't readily see where they have increased the AS to accommodate additional shares. I could be wrong about that, only looking superficially at this point.
But, it appears you may have a 'naked long' situation. Have any brokers refused to allow buys yet?
Posted by TickTrader on :
About Canada, totally agree with the problem they present with naked shorting. This link...
Went to home page, it's out of Vancouver. That's why I asked what the deal was. Looking for peeps to sign a petition... well, my eyebrow is up on that one. Why? What has Canada done for us lately?
Posted by TickTrader on :
IESV - the 2004 Cornell CD was completely liquidated by April 18 via conversion to common stock.
New 3/2006 SEDA w/Cornell - As of March 31, 2006 the Company has issued 41,559,383 shares under this agreement, plus an initial issuance of $500,000 worth of the Company's stock as a commitment fee for this commitment. Under this agreement, the Company may issue stock worth up to $25,000,000, through March 2007.
216,834,980 shares of common stock, $0.005 par value per share, as of May 9, 2006.
Some change, Purl, but I don't know. I would have to go back and track all those CDs.
One of my longs just went through something similar - had to go back and then restate because an old cd wasn't disclosed when they bought the company. They chased it all over the globe, trying to buy the remnants back.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader writes,
" During the nine months ended March 31, 2006, - Issued 545,128 shares of common stock... - Issued 6,363,637 shares of common stock...."
Yeah, I looked at employee options, also.
There is a lender of great concern, Cornell, which is well known for dilutive selling. However, IESV was smart enough to arrange a "discretionary" agreement which indicates shares will be provided to Cornell on an "as needed" basis. Looking at IESV cash flow, appears IESV is not making use of Cornell.
Cash flow, financing is only one-third and stock sells the remaining two-thirds. This is a very prudent mix for a developing business. Interest charges on loans is very reasonable. All of this suggests IESV is using revenue and low financing to develop, which is good.
IESV cash flow also indicates they are turning over their revenue, stock sales and financing directly into development of their Dairy to Bio-Gas technology. I found no cash flow which suggests company people are skimming off excessive amounts, such as high salaries.
Per IESV reporting, all is in order.
Returning to their recent issued shares to pay debts and such, less than ten-million shares. Employee options, much less. This amount of shares could be turned over in the markets in four or five days, if all is dumped at once; not enough shares to explain this three-million to four-million per day average turnover in shares.
Shares traded in the past four to five months, is almost double the total authorized shares.
All major indicators of naked shorting are there, including being listed on the SHO list.
Really angers me because this is a company which should be trading in the .12 to .16 per share range, even with a reported million dollar loss on their recent 10Q filing.
Couple years back, when some of us starting buying IESV, volume was on the low side. IESV starting becoming known, then suddenly volume jumps to millions per day and dropping prices directly indicating naked shorting.
My anger is most of us could have bought and sold, bought and sold, many times over if share prices behaved as normal. We could have turned at least a fifty percent profit and still be vested for the future. Naked shorters robbed us of our profits.
IESV is a good company which is playing it straight, doing everything right, keeping their word, not wasting money and never a hint of pumping. Value is in their potential which is great because they are serious about this Bio-Gas industry evidenced by their large plants and steady year-over-year development. IESV is on the verge of becoming profitable and IESV is years ahead of other companies.
Naked shorters, though, screwing everyone, with the blessings of the SEC.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader writes,
Cornell, "...issued 41,559,383 shares"
Still not enough to explain the volume. Additionally, this came in after the volume spiked up and remained up.
SEC,
"...Cornell will pay the Company 99% of the lowest closing bid price....Cornell will retain 5% of each advance...."
If Cornell dumped all of their shares, cash on IESV balance sheet should show a finance gain around two-million dollars.
Long term proceeds are about a million. This is not Cornell. Stock issuance, proceeds are about two-million which might suggest Cornell but cannot be because IESV is selling stock to other vested interests per their report to assist with costs and debts; not enough to explain Cornell and all other interests.
Should Cornell dump all at once, this would take about two weeks to finalize. High volume trading has been going on for months and months.
I really believe this is not Cornell dumping shares on the market. I would expect Cornell to dump some, certainly, but not the whole lot at once. Even if all dumped, this would be done and over with long back.
Again, this Cornell deal came about _after_ the spike in daily volume.
Another factor which does not add up, is share price is very stable, very little change. Should Cornell dump, I would expect share price to fall to a point to cause panic selling.
Numbers cannot be rationalized to account for all this high volume for such a long period of time, save for naked short selling.
Being on the SHO list, is a strong indicator.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Yahoo is displaying 4.625 million shares per day average volume over the past three months. Rounded down to 4.5 million and multiplied by 66 trading days in three months, this works out to be about three-hundred-million shares, not quite twice the early 2006 outstanding shares. Being conservative, we could assume a turnover of an amount equal to all IESV outstanding shares over a period of three months. This is way too much!
Kira
Posted by TickTrader on :
Purl, if I would get my lazy arse in gear and pull my hard drive out of my DEAD pc, I could look at old notes on this stock. The only thing I absolutely remember, when considering this in mid 2005... insiders were selling their arses off. I went back to it this year, saw the cd being converted to common (which is officially over), and passed again.
The chart activity (using stockcharts) matches Cornell/insider trades. Since 2005, add another 41.5M on Cornell SEDA. I see 4 more proposed sales, not reported yet.
And before I buy, I'm gonna want to find out who Cordoba Corporation is, and what their balance is after selling.
This is a good long pick, but I would plan to accumulate at or below .055 because that's where its gonna stay as long as Cornell has shares to sell - IMO.
Aha, I do have a bit of dd on this pc...
I'm showing it recently hit the SHO list on 4/27/06. That makes sense (sort of), Cornell finished selling on 4/18, the alternate fuel industry woke up (overall).
High volume days do not necessarily indicate short selling. I could offer other explanations, but without watching that activity on 'last sale' streamer, I would only be guessing.
So what am I saying? Yes, I understand your anger over watching profits come and go. But I doubt much of it is from abusive naked shorting.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
If curious, I periodically take a break from weed pulling and research stocks. You will not be successful at stock trading if you do spend hours and hours each day researching.
If hot and sweaty from weed pulling, do not sit in the shade and drink a beer. Sit in front of your computer and research stocks until you cool off a bit.
Finding a single stock, just the right stock, can earn you a fortune, *snaps her fingers* just like that!
So what are you doing sitting out there on your patio eating fat hamburgers and drinking fat beers watching your kids become fat, also.
For reader information, my comment about Glassman's margin account, and this does not apply to Glassman because he knows what he is doing, a margin account is bad for two very good reasons.
One reason is a margin account allows your account shares to be borrowed for shorting. Other is you are tempted to borrow to buy and end up paying interest to your broker, and maybe losing your money; borrowed lost, still due plus interest.
New investors, beginner investors, are very tempted to use margin accounts and your broker will do everything possible to convince you to use a margin account.
Do not do that!
Reminds me of a man who lives next to one of our rentals. He pisses and moans to me he had to refinance his house because he lost his family's life savings in the stock markets.
His wife divorced him and took the kids with her.
A cash account at your broker will not allow your shares to be borrowed for shorting. Shares cannot be borrowed from a cash account; cash and carry only.
A cash account will force you to only "spend" as much money as you have in your account; no "credit card" stupidity. You run out of money, no more spending.
All too often I read posters commenting,
"Wish I could buy that stock but I have no more money to spend. All my money is in IBZT stock."
Dumb F-word.
Never invest more than fifty percent of your cash on hand. Keep a good amount available to play those short term runners. Get in, get out, make a profit, return your cash to your account and sit on it until another runner comes along.
Never use a margin account, never tap out your cash reserves. If you do, I will think of you as a Dumb F-word.
Glassman is exempt, mostly.
Kira
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader, then we agree we disagree!
A balanced viewpoint is very beneficial for readers here. Tick Trader or Purl Gurl? Who knows! More important, though, for readers to learn of both viewpoints.
Tick Trader's comments are very valid. I agree with his thoughts and disagree with his thoughts. This is the fun of stock trading; lots of risks, lots of unknowns, both leading to excitement!
How beneficial for readers to not be subjected to pumping nor subjected to bashing. Tick Trader and I are having a mature responsible discussion of a stock and both of us raise valid points which benefits all readers.
Remaining fair and open minded, Tick Trader appears to not be vested in IESV. His viewpoint could be a bit more valid and objective. Our family is heavily vested in IESV, so my viewpoint will inherently be skewed towards what I "want" to believe, no matter how hard I try to be fair and objective.
Probably is Cornell dumping shares.
However, I am always right. Buy IESV. On Thursday of next week, IESV will be selling for $172.00 per share. This is guaranteed!
Heh, heh, heh....
Kira
Posted by TickTrader on :
I don't think we are in disagreement, Purl, at least not on much. The high volume is suspicious... "sounds like" MMs moving hot potatoes to keep individual short % down. They are probably waiting for Cornell to dump more so they can cover that way. I don't know, I haven't watched it. Seeing mirror trades? Between the tick trades? UHV - we should all know about that. But when you calculate shorts, do you factor in repetition volume from flippers and daytraders? I don't have a 'general' percentage to use. You have to consider PR exposure, which again, I haven't tracked.
Now, when are you coming up here to pull my weeds? If it weren't for dandelions, my lawn would have nothing but green. I like green.
Posted by glassman on :
if you don't own a stock you have no business posting on it????? LOL
Posted by TickTrader on :
glassman,
No kidding, that's what I think, too. Shame on me... bad, bad, bad.
Actually, I think... I should go watch a movie or something.
But I might buy this stock, does that count? No? No forgiveness expected.
Adding this... Truthfully, if this were the iesv thread, I never would have posted.
Posted by glassman on :
there's nothing sadder than closed mind TT...
i rarely post in a stock that i don't own either... cmk? i just had to speak up
Posted by BuyTex on :
fyi, as I recall, there's skeletons in the "investigateSEC" thingee's closet...
Posted by loggerhead on :
what is said aboutndol
Posted by BuyTex on :
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
No, no more weeds this afternoon. I filled three barrels. That is enough. Pulling weeds on eight acres of rugged hilltop is hard work!
Now I am wet sanding a door for a 56 chevy truck, in the nude out in the sun. Champagne and skinny dipping later. Man ye harpoons!
If we are not allowed to discuss a stock which we do not own, how do we discuss possible picks?
Kira
Posted by BuyTex on :
whisper?
maybe there's a whisperboard, in some secluded corner... ???
New Fox show! StockWhisperer...
Kevin Costner buys rights: Choctaw-fox who Dances with StockWhispererererer...
Tex changes handle, stars in SickCents, whispering: "I see dead stocks...." . . . . . . . .
quote:DISCLAIMER: stockwhisperer.com is in no way liable for fallout stemming from lack of knowledge regarding coyote vs fox among, between, otherwise prepositionally bound followers, viewers, practitioners, debutantes, academics relating to or in any methodology tangentially exposed to Native American, indigenous, or "Born Again" Americans (North, South or Central. note: inhabitants meeting Panama Canal Zone residency requirements may have special consideration).
[ May 28, 2006, 21:10: Message edited by: BuyTex ]
Posted by TickTrader on :
Something I forgot to ask, Purl ...
"A cash account at your broker will not allow your shares to be borrowed for shorting. Shares cannot be borrowed from a cash account; cash and carry only."
Why do you say that? Well, okay, do you mean to say your broker won't allow anyone else 'out of house' to short your shares?
Restricted shares are supposedly immune from shorting. The only other way to prevent one or more short positions against your shares is to order certificates and get them out of the system.
And TDAmeritrade says, "We WELCOME all International Customers!" Does anybody know if they can actually short OTCs via TDA or other US brokers? There's enough foreigners on these boards that I would have thought one would volunteer info about how/if the short-side potential works for them.
Purl, 'we' - in this thread - can discuss anything, for now. But the mini-sharks will return, they are going to be back Tuesday morning.
And, you know, most of them don't even make sense to me.
BuyTex, lol, what stock symbol is associated with those flicks? Sounds interesting.
Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:Originally posted by TickTrader: Something I forgot to ask, Purl ...
"A cash account at your broker will not allow your shares to be borrowed for shorting. Shares cannot be borrowed from a cash account; cash and carry only."
Why do you say that? Well, okay, do you mean to say your broker won't allow anyone else 'out of house' to short your shares?
Restricted shares are supposedly immune from shorting. The only other way to prevent one or more short positions against your shares is to order certificates and get them out of the system.
And TDAmeritrade says, "We WELCOME all International Customers!" Does anybody know if they can actually short OTCs via TDA or other US brokers? There's enough foreigners on these boards that I would have thought one would volunteer info about how/if the short-side potential works for them.
Purl, 'we' - in this thread - can discuss anything, for now. But the mini-sharks will return, they are going to be back Tuesday morning.
And, you know, most of them don't even make sense to me.
BuyTex, lol, what stock symbol is associated with those flicks? Sounds interesting.
Perhaps this is "Internet myth," re cash accounts & borrowing of shares. However, that is also my understanding...I am emboldened by Wily's sharing that belief--but, as we caution time and again, anyone can be wrong. As I understand it, it has to do with the difference between cash & margin accounts, ie, agreeing to margin is also agreeing to lending shares. That being said, I have also heard what you, Tick, admonish re certs...but I *think* that was in pre-decimal days...
Movies? Wily and I will be working on the first draft of the screenplay as soon as she reads my post...Both Blackberry AND Bluetooth will beg for product placement; we will settle on merged ID as "Blurt-tooth"
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Ha! Darn funny post, Tex! Stockwhisperer!
Anyone who dances with me runs a risk of having my hips knock him clean into next week, if not next month! BOOM! BOOM!
As you know, my medicine animal is coyote.
On cash versus margin, almost all brokers agree stocks in a cash account cannot be borrowed by others for shorting. A cash account, you are not allowed to short.
When you create a margin account, you also agree to allow your shares to be borrowed for shorting. You must have a margin account to be allowed to short stocks.
Cash, no shorting either direction. Margin, shorting either direction.
This is well hidden in the fine print of your broker contract, for most brokers if not all brokers.
Fun stories, please visit! Explains me...
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
"As will be suggested by the tales below, Trickster alternately scandalizes, disgusts, amuses, disrupts, chastises, and humiliates (or is humiliated by) the animal-like proto-people of pre-history, yet he is also a creative force transforming their world, sometimes in bizarre and outrageous ways, with his instinctive energies and cunning. Eternally scavenging for food, he represents the most basic instincts...."
Nashoba Holba
Posted by BuyTex on :
ya, saw alla that on the Choctaw board...remember? "Fox!" not coyote...Fox!
as I recall, said poster even challenged on *your* family history...
o, well....back to whispering
Posted by BuyTex on :
btw, Tick?
re: "in this thread - can discuss anything, for now. But the mini-sharks will return . . ."
"mini-sharks" need mini-pilotfish...
As washed-up adults conversing, in the next room? We are not of much interest...
Posted by TickTrader on :
Beat dead horse, making glue...
In house, they don't need to lend... only locate. And ordering certs is about the only thing left that ameritrade will still charge you for.
I sure would like to group test this some day, see what really happens.
Posted by BuyTex on :
*Tick cryptically encodes...*
"In house, they don't need to lend...only locate."
lol, what's the now-passe "buzzword"?
oh, yes..."on task"
TiskTask, Tick, as I hear you? You submit a loophole, whereby the broker can qualify for lent shares, merely because I as a client hold them in my cash account...
In other words, the "bet" is--if push meets shove--the broker can say, "I fulfilled my part by finding legit shares...EVEN THOUGH I could not legally lend them. But, indeed, I found some..."
sorry if this is a dead horse to you...although I can't claim "newbie" status anymore, there's much for me to learn...
TIA...
Posted by TickTrader on :
Well dang, BuyTex, you and Purl killed the horse (issue). I just used it to make glue. Are you not familiar with that ages-old phrase?
Posted by BuyTex on :
OK, we're waaayy too formal, now...lol
My pals call me Tex...
Neither Belle nor I would kill a horse, unless driven to ground...
simply requesting clarification on the possible "loophole"
Posted by TickTrader on :
I'll dig for my account forms on my original cash account, but I remember something in there that gives them... wiggle room? even on cash accounts. I'll look for the exact wording, though.
And I have a kid that can keep pounding on the glue until it's a fine powdery substance that's lighter than air.
Posted by glassman on :
i believe TT is correct.....
if a broker locates the shares and then the owner sells them? there is supposed to be a margin call on the short-sale...
there are also some dividend issues if your long shares are being used/borrowed to short... guess who gets the dividend? they follow the shares... whoever shorted them is supposed to cough up the dividend... PLUS? there is a tax problem that goes along with that... dividends are one way to bust naked shorting and dsicourage legit shorting too....
the brokers have probably not been properly tracking the shares they "collateralise" for shorts as they should and hence you get situations like global crossing and martha stewart etc...
[ May 28, 2006, 23:20: Message edited by: glassman ]
Posted by BuyTex on :
true... divvies follow
and *there* are tax consequences..."your" shares can be lent, and you wind up without the tax bennies...there's some legalistic hoo-ha regarding the way you get screwed out of your tax bennies...
Still, I *think* this is big-board issues...*not* pennies...
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tex waves his cowboy hat,
"...even challenged on *your* family history..."
If you know the Munster family, you know our family history.
Reminds me of Westcott the other day making a crude remark about my father. Elected to not say anything, not come across as cry-baby like him, but if he only knew I am an orphan.
Dividends are oft used to fight shorters. Some companies will buy back shares at a higher price, others will keep silent about very good news then suddenly release news during market.
Naked shorts, no effective defense.
Reminds me of GLUV suddenly printed off something like six-trillion shares to cover for their shorts. Quite comical!
I am quite certain on this cash versus margin accounts. I recall calling E*Turd and asking about this. Even made the boy repeat himself three times to be sure.
No surprise if there is a wiggle hole somewhere. Most common event is a shorter will simply provide an IOU for short shares, but never settle the shares.
Some of us periodically discuss "rewinding" the clock on short shares. This is common. Brokers have a loop hole with which to work. They can reset the timer at will.
Major problem is the SEC and NASD wrote real fancy sounding rules but no enforcement, a self-reporting system. What crook will turn himself in? Ain't gonna happen.
DTCC is a complete joke.
This Utah rule, silly of Wall Street to scream bloody murder. Utah gives brokers three days plus five days to settle; eight days.
Reminds of Jefferson screaming about the FBI cannot search his office. Ok for the FBI to raid American homes, but do not dare touch his office. Amazing hypocrisy.
Wall Street is the same. Ok for Wall Street to rip off America but do not dare question what Wall Street does inside corporate offices.
Wish I had sixty-thousand wrapped in tinfoil inside my freezer. Nothing suspicious there.
Nah, Tex and I would never kill a horse. There have been a few mules in my life I would have liked to kill....
Coyote
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Speaking of taxes, only right thing Bush did is to sign off on the capital gains tax extension until 2008.
Keep this in mind. Before December 31, 2008, you will want to sell your big long term profitable stocks, such as ALMI.
My hunch is, when Democrats take the presidency and become majority in Congress, this lower capital gains tax will vanish. I am thinking the Democrats will raise this to 28 percent to 30 percent effective January 1, 2009.
God Bless politicians!
Coyote
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Staying on topic of naked shorting, here is a company which is the king of naked shorts.
Want to read a hilarious pump and dump?
PLNI thread, posted May 27, 2006 15:14
"Management’s Discussion and Review of Unaudited 2006 First Quarter...."
Read and enjoy Rush Limbaugh style number twisting comedy. Darn good laugh, that.
Nearly a billion shares of PLNI have been shorted and naked shorted over the past year. I am quite convinced PLNI is shorting their own shares as a scam. This type of scam is not uncommon at all. "Squeeze Trigger" news is a dead giveaway of shorting orchestrated by the company itself.
The Charles Schwab / Endovasc scandal is an example of this type of scam. The Schwab affair is especially vulgar. Suspicion is Schwab was funneling funds directly into Dubai for use by Islamic Terrorists.
Not gonna bother telling the PLNI boys about this.
Certainly you do not think Wall Street is working for America, yes? Wall Street works for whomever has the bucks; senator, president or terrorist.
Nashoba Holba
* Hey you NDOL boys, how about that? I actually know some things about trading stock.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
PLNI, can you spot the pump & dump activity?
Perfect, best of both worlds. Short the stock for profit, periodic pump & dump for more profits. Money being made on both ends. Those boys are squeezing every last penny out of gullible traders.
Coyote
Posted by TickTrader on :
Okay, Purl...
"Nearly a billion shares of PLNI have been shorted and naked shorted over the past year. I am quite convinced PLNI is shorting their own shares as a scam. This type of scam is not uncommon at all. "Squeeze Trigger" news is a dead giveaway of shorting orchestrated by the company itself."
I'm open-minded, and pretty darned mad because I can't get more shares, so please, please, PLEASE, explain to me why you are convinced plni is a scam. And, for sequence of events, the idiotic buy in report was purchased AFTER people complained about not being able to buy.
So, please tell me what has you convinced?
Posted by TickTrader on :
Gotta do better Purl... fat fingers? Do you want me to explain what is going on behind those fat fingers right here, right now, for permanent referral to all viewers of this bb? Too much info is sometimes too much info, especially for newbies and MMs.
(unless Tex deletes it)
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader comments,
"So, please tell me what has you convinced?"
Decades of experience and extensive knowledge.
"Do you want me to explain what is going on behind those fat fingers right here, right now, for permanent referral to all viewers of this bb?"
Absolutely! I truly want you to go on record. I am calling. Show your cards.
Coyote
Posted by BuyTex on :
*drums fingers*
Posted by TickTrader on :
Fat fingers can be mistakes, followed by a trade for the same number of shares at pps of 0, followed by a trade for the same number of shares at the correct pps.
Everyone seems to think the mistakes are from retail traders. No. mistakes of that sort come from MMs reporting the trade. Interestingly, this type of mistake/correction never makes it to the permanent records/charts.
Next level... Insert whatever circumstance you want here... MM1 tells MM2, hey gotta go to the dentist... page me if 'such and such' on this. 'Such and such' happens and MM2 puts through fat finger trade, which in turn sends alert to MM1's pager.
Sometimes a correction is made and sometimes not, depends on how it was set and whether or not the next trade can be timely entered.
Next level... Another nickname I use for 'fat fingers'...
'trolling for triggers'
Owner of plni sets a 'sell if' condition. Fat finger triggers the condition, selling the owner's shares at market.
That last fat finger took shares away from one owner and gave 100,000 more shares to ME. If there were more, someone else got them. Courtesy of one dumb**** and UBSS. If I would have known beforehand, I would have put in for more cheap shares.
Do I feel bad about it? I checked my internal ****-o-meter, and can honestly say.... no.
Posted by TickTrader on :
quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: *drums fingers*
lol
old and slow they go together.
Posted by BuyTex on :
gotta admit...I dooo like this:
quote:Such and such' happens and MM2 puts through fat finger trade, which in turn sends alert to MM1's pager
this is a holiday, right?
Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:Originally posted by TickTrader:
quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: *drums fingers*
lol
old and slow they go together.
don't fret...you're among like-minded whisperererersrsrs
is it old n slow?
or thick-face, black-heart?
kidzz will be kidzz Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tex, you drum your fingers, I file my fingernails.
I am bored. Tick Trader, you gonna show your cards or not? I am ready for bed. We start work at sunrise.
Nashoba Holba
Posted by TickTrader on :
TMI, Tex, TMI
Just too much information to leave here.
Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:Originally posted by TickTrader: I'll dig for my account forms on my original cash account, but I remember something in there that gives them... wiggle room? even on cash accounts. I'll look for the exact wording, though.
And I have a kid that can keep pounding on the glue until it's a fine powdery substance that's lighter than air.
*bump*
Posted by TickTrader on :
Purl, I musta posted while you were on your toenails?
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader, I am a poker player. I do not play Old Maid nor Go Fish. You are sitting at the wrong table!
Tex, when I stated 'dig', I really meant that. Substitute this --> I'll have to get back to you on that because my paperwork is in one of many files, boxes, or still in a pile that is sitting in front of me, even though it is old enough to be filed away.
Posted by TickTrader on :
Scroll up, Purl.
Posted by BuyTex on :
Wily...
Have you heard from or of Leanne Howe, lately?
Posted by TickTrader on :
Well, now page back and scroll, Purl.
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Nah, have not looked recently to discover what kind of trouble she is causing.
Coyote never dies but rather becomes inanimate, like dead but not really. Fox is famous for bringing Coyote back to this world. When Fox jumps over "dead" Coyote, then Coyote springs back to life. Fox is very powerful.
"Coyote's twin brother, who took the name of Fox, said to him...."
Mourning Dove, Okanogan, 1933
Posted by BuyTex on :
ahh, new material...to me, at least...
thanks
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
Tick Trader, I looked at your cards. You do not understand. I play poker. You are sitting at the wrong table.
Coyote
Posted by TickTrader on :
You're the one that threw down fat fingers as evidence of a scam. lol
Sorry, not a card player. Odds are with the house.
Tex, please delete my post.TIA
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
No reason to delete your post. Useful information but is not related to my comments. Allow readers to learn something, like not playing poker with Coyote.
heh, heh, heh...
Still naked Coyote
Posted by Purl Gurl on :
For readers who do not get it, the PLNI "trigger" news is to excite traders into buying stock.
I am tired, I am burnt, been working since sunrise and still not satisfied I have worked enough to call this a day. Otherwise, I would take five minutes and write a ten page article about PLNI and why I believe the whole thing is just another scam.
Evidence is very clear. You only need to clear your mind and open your eyes.
Ticks, try this PLNI trick. Tell your credit card company the money you owe is just a simple accounting entry, you really do not owe that money so you do not have pay.
Toodles!
Kira
Posted by TickTrader on :
Whatever makes you feel good, Purl.
I'm always open to EVIDENCE of a scam.
Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:Originally posted by TickTrader: Gotta do better Purl... fat fingers? Do you want me to explain what is going on behind those fat fingers right here, right now, for permanent referral to all viewers of this bb? Too much info is sometimes too much info, especially for newbies and MMs.
(unless Tex deletes it)
still waiting on explanation, for "permanent referral to all viewers"
nope, no deletion
could do so, being a mod, here--but no infractions noted so far...
Posted by TickTrader on :
That's up to you Tex. Next time I'll read what I type with more consideration.
In afterthought, considering help vs. harm to others, I asked you to delete my post. If only it was true... fat fingers enticing buyers. Oh, but I can't buy, so this must be practice runs.
If it were a scam, that would make me happier than not being able to buy when I want. Oh, but I can sell! Not even gonna happen.
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