posted
they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
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posted
this is the most interesting court testimony i've ever watched, becuase of the technical issues they are trying to address.
kel tech gives the following descrition of the fireamr that i beleive they are testifying about:
PF-9
The PF-9 is a semi-automatic, locked breech pistol, chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge. It has been developed from our highly successful P-11 and P-3AT pistols with maximum concealability in mind. The PF-9 has a single stack magazine holding 7 rounds. It is one of the lightest and flattest 9 mm ever made. Firing mechanism is Double-Action Only with an automatic hammer block safety. The PF-9 is available in blued, parkerized, and hard chrome finishes. Grips are in black, grey, and olive drab.
an m-1911-A1 45 ACP ( old school officers sidearm) has a safety feature few people are aware of, if you press the gun hard against someon it won't fire becaise it moves the slide back and blocks the hammer... the kel tech here apparently doesn't have that....
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posted
Haven't had much time to follow this minute by minute, but based on what I saw the other day, if the prosecution's "star witness" is Rachel Jeantel, then they have A LOT of work to do if they plan on getting a conviction...
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posted
from what I saw today the testimony was interesting but I can't see its value to the case, unless its purpose is to side track the trial. Its possible that this could be the legal ploy of the century or a lawyer trying to run up the bill.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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they have to prove that a homicide occurred, the defnse laywer would never stipulate to that, so they had to present all of that forensic evidence to prove a person died, sounds silly but that's how the sytem works... . they mostly spent alot of time proving how good the forensics people are... SOP..
the real case begins when Zimmerna tries to prove he was acting in self-defense.. the prosecution DOES NOT have to prove that he didn't. it's waht they call and "affirmative defense"...
the death of Martin is clear, the fact that Zimmerran pulled th tripper is now clear too...
the "twist" in all this will come upon the Judges instruction t teh the jury.
the judge can tell teh jury that "just" by getting out of his car and being armed and then following the kid? Zimmerman is guilty of maybe manslaughter, maybe worse depnding on how they feel about the rest fo the evidence.... isn't following a kid around in public with a gun what we call stalking?
the judge MAY not give those instructions too... the judge me ask them to decide for htemsleves if following the kid around wiht gun (which is now established) may have been OK for him to do legally..
it's not an easy question... at least it is being made in court and not at the police station.
in the US? the cops are not acting as lawyers, they record the evidence and make the charges. then Prosecutors decide whether to follow the cops charges up or not... that was why this case got so much attention at first becuase the cops didn't file charges and they are not lawyers...
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quote:Originally posted by NR: Haven't had much time to follow this minute by minute, but based on what I saw the other day, if the prosecution's "star witness" is Rachel Jeantel, then they have A LOT of work to do if they plan on getting a conviction...
today was th eonly day i've watched, i was checking on the Egypt stuff and saw teh gun epxert was testifying and got interested for awhile.. most of this is boring as he77. i do no tagree with some of the peopel who claim the kel-tech 9 is a cop gun. it's abck-up peice only for coips because it only holds 7 rounds and it is easy to conceal...... cops want the bigger magazines i cannot imagine a cop carrying that peice as his or her primary, but i can imagine it being in a conceal holster.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
" the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible.."
the prosecutor jsut said the same thing the wording was slightly differnt..
manslaughter, 5 years IMO...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
" the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible.."
the prosecutor jsut said the same thing the wording was slightly differnt..
manslaughter, 5 years IMO...
Yeah, I see manslaughter, but you cant just do that now. The prosecution went for 2nd degree murder which is not what I see as the proper charge. 2nd degree murder is overkill, but I think it was done to appease certain people.
So, OJ Simpson can get off because they said it was racism, he killed TWO people, high speed chase caught on helicopter TV, all the evidence showed it was him, and everything that came out after that, but yet no justice for the murdered.
If zimmerman is found not guilty just watch what happens. Riots, burning things down, racially backed assaults, etc.
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posted
cashcow, all of the evidence did not show it was OJ . period.
OJ had to have done everything they said he did perfectly for it to have been him. this was not over period of few minutes, it was over a period of hours. he would have had to be superman to do what they said he did.
people WANT to think of him as that guy on the ball feild who could run great. but that wasn't a footbal game. it required him to make about 100 carefull decision and run a whole game at he same time. no fottball players ever do that on the feild, not even the best quarterbacks. the very best all have about two quarters in them at most. a "four quarter prfect game" happens less than once in about hundred pro players lifetimes...
and lastly? OJ was long retired and beat to crap and not in game form when that went down. they did not prove anything in htat court room.
this Zimmerna case is only about how far self defense actaully goes, no more no less.
i have caught peopel braking nto my car in th edark in my carport before and knew better than to shoot them even if it is legqal (such as in Texas) so do you. is it worth it to kill somebody for 100$? noway, it is worth it to save your life or soemoene else but, i woulldn't shoot soembdoy just to save my dog. and evn tho i love the dam thing? if he bites soembdy? he's on his way to heaven and i'll send him .... facts of life...
zimmeran should get five, out in two and he'll be legitimately blocked form owning a firearm ever again.. that's jusitce IMO...
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posted
only 23 pitchers in major league histroy have pitched perfect games....
do you know many friggin players and games ther ehave been? it began in 1876 the seasons are waht 150 games? or so?....
OJ couldnot have done it alone or unplanned. the cops pretty much went after him and him alone.
teh ssue in this case is that the cops pretended that Trayvon was a burglar or soemthing and had no rights in order to allow Zimmernamn to not be charged with anything.
toally insane, and another example of the police being outacontrol IMO. who works for who? to protect and serve? hmmmm...
one ofmy kids is trayvons age, was wahtever, my kid would not have confroented somebody like that IMO (but i am not sure) i would have when i was his age. the real problem is that zimmerna would not have followed me cuz i'm not black
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posted
in th eend of this thing? it's got to be manslaughter with light term because no matter who or what? manslaughter means somebody died (provern) and we have no way of knowign why or how there's not one witness.
is that bad luck? maybe... maybe not. it's really friggin bad luck for Trayovon and his family no matter how you slice it. Zimmerna should never have followed the kid around because he never saw crime being commmitted and he admits that so it's alos proven... it is the defintion of stalking...
proof is not opinion, the ME gave good definition of fact V opinion in his testimony if it's on youtube? i recomend watching all the testimony of themedical examiner... it was awesome. facts can be measured, opinions cannot...
it all suxz, lots of stuff suxz.. zimmeran can go itno jail and do some good there if he's agood person. if he ain't? then he belongs there anyway....
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posted
I have not followed the trial at all but unless this guy is glossing over whatever revelations may have come out in the prosecution's case I have to believe this article to be correct....especially the unpredictability of juries....
posted
juries are unpredctable. it is my persoanl opinion htattheFounders did in fact create the twleve juror systme because they recognised the fallibiltiy of the systme.
i belive that they wanted twelve peopleto come to gehter in a jury at th eend of the day and judge not just the defendant, but alos the prosecutor and the judge and the lawmakers.
all of these mandatory sentence they have? most of them were designed to circumvent the jury decision making systme. for years, juries wer not asked about the death penalty. the Judges were handed verdict and the judge then passed the judges decison of sentence. That was found uncostitutioanl. But th eimplication htat is uncosntittuaionl ALSO implies that the Jury and the jury only should decide sentences...
lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour.... and we all know they win cases they should not win. especially in white collar crime...... money does keep people out of jail, and how good plea deal yu get offered is usually directly proportioanl to how much it will cost to prosecute you versus how much money you can shell out ( poor people can't pay for a strong defense, guilty or innocnet)
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lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour -------------------------------------------------
Exactly, this is one of the big reasons our court systems are so backed up.
The judges are/were lawyers and everyone associated with the court system makes more $ by delaying cases more, except the client
The judges will give cases more and more time to delay a trial date, no matter what the reason.
at $350 an hour or more why not, lawyers can waste several hours to days just sitting and waiting to say, yes your honor. Then go back to their office and get the bill ready for their clients.
The system is a mess at all levels and money is the main reason, the bigger the mess the more money is made by some.
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By Glassman:
lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour -------------------------------------------------
Exactly, this is one of the big reasons our court systems are so backed up.
The judges are/were lawyers and everyone associated with the court system makes more $ by delaying cases more, except the client
The judges will give cases more and more time to delay a trial date, no matter what the reason.
at $350 an hour or more why not, lawyers can waste several hours to days just sitting and waiting to say, yes your honor. Then go back to their office and get the bill ready for their clients.
The system is a mess at all levels and money is the main reason, the bigger the mess the more money is made by some.
-
You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway. -------------------------------------------------
Yea i know, sad isn't it, my opinion won't change.India has it's problems as do other countries of the world.
It is very frustrating if you have to go through the court system, especially when the bills come in.
The simplest stuff, becomes very complicated when it enters the court system, much of it because of the money involved.
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By Pagan:
You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway. -------------------------------------------------
Yea i know, sad isn't it, my opinion won't change.India has it's problems as do other countries of the world.
It is very frustrating if you have to go through the court system, especially when the bills come in.
The simplest stuff, becomes very complicated when it enters the court system, much of it because of the money involved.
-
Well...if you dislike the US system...then what should you do? It's obvious there is an issue. Hence the reason I asked you to observe the Indian system. What would you prefer? The US or something different? Curious to hear your solution.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
India may have bad legal system but the US has more people in jail;
China
In 2001 the incarceration rate in China was 111 per 100,000[citation needed] (sentenced prisoners only).
New Zealand
The rate imprisonment in New Zealand in 2011 was 198 per 100,000.[6] India
India has one of the lowest incarceration rates with 281,000 prisoners in their jails.[5] This is a rate of just under 25 per 100,000; given a total population, 1,129,866,154.[5] India reported 1,764,630 crimes in 2007.[5] There were 236,313 assaults and 111,296 burglaries. United States Main articles: United States incarceration rate and Incarceration in the United States
The United States' incarceration rate is, according to 2009 figures, 743 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2009).[7] The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[8]
yeah it's wiki alrtight but it's correct and verified by any number of other sources. we are the wrost criminal justice sytem in the world for some strange reason... we lie to ourselves about it, and the main reason is simply cash-money
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
the following is perfect example of why we became police state, the cops are ONLY doing thisbecaue they get money cars adn brownie points for catching people who are doing what exaclty? and they are allowed to lie to US, but if you check the the laws? if you lie to them? you are automatically a felon if they want to make the case. all of this was done in th ebeginning to get rid of murderers, but now its just for having something that other people don't like.
the lawyers cheer on the cops while they are being cowboys cuz they get a paycheck out of it too...
Fake drug checkpoint in Mayfield Heights is legal, experts say
The sign says it's a drug checkpoint but it's not. (Courtesy of Bill Peters)
Mark Gillispie, The Plain Dealer By Mark Gillispie, The Plain Dealer Email the author on June 28, 2013 at 7:25 PM, updated July 03, 2013 at 9:22 AM
MAYFIELD HEIGHTS, Ohio -- Police are not allowed to use checkpoints to search motorists and their vehicles for drugs. So, in Mayfield Heights, officers are trying the next-best thing -- fake drug checkpoints.
Police gathered in the express lanes of Interstate 271 on Monday after placing signs along the freeway warning motorists that a drug checkpoint lay ahead.
There was no checkpoint, only police waiting for motorists to react suspiciously after seeing the signs. A Mayfield Heights assistant prosecutor says it's a lawful and legitimate tactic in his city's war on drugs.
am tho nly person who is just plain disgusted by the whole thing? i can safely go theru any chackpoint, i got nothing to hide, but don't really feel much like cooperating anymore. cuz it's just palin disgusting..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: India may have bad legal system but the US has more people in jail;
China
In 2001 the incarceration rate in China was 111 per 100,000[citation needed] (sentenced prisoners only).
New Zealand
The rate imprisonment in New Zealand in 2011 was 198 per 100,000.[6] India
India has one of the lowest incarceration rates with 281,000 prisoners in their jails.[5] This is a rate of just under 25 per 100,000; given a total population, 1,129,866,154.[5] India reported 1,764,630 crimes in 2007.[5] There were 236,313 assaults and 111,296 burglaries. United States Main articles: United States incarceration rate and Incarceration in the United States
The United States' incarceration rate is, according to 2009 figures, 743 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2009).[7] The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[8]
yeah it's wiki alrtight but it's correct and verified by any number of other sources. we are the wrost criminal justice sytem in the world for some strange reason... we lie to ourselves about it, and the main reason is simply cash-money
As usual...what you posted has nothing to do with what was being discussed. LMAO
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
Here is an interesting sidebar since we are discussing the legal system. I just got arrested tonight....and all though you cannot tell from the written text; I am absolutely fuming!
I was a big time criminal too....lemme tell you about it.
First off, I was completely polite and compliant without exception. The officer was about as nice as you could ask for from an arresting officer.
The stop was initiated because he said that I had a headlight out....this occurred at dusk but I know that it was working this morning when I drove to work at 5:00 AM. Upon being stopped we both discovered/realized that my license expired on June 27th. Other than that nothing....no drinking,drugs, speeding, swerving, insurance was paid up, tag was good....nothing. The officer and I were completely amicable for the entire ordeal.
Nevertheless,I was handcuffed taken to the sheriffs office...handcuffs removed and manacles applied to my ankles. I was fingerprinted (electronically). After being detained for approximately 1.5 hours I was told that I could post a 400 dollar cash bond and go home....Oh, I forgot to mention they had my truck towed....even though I personally know the owner of the station where I pulled over and he would not have cared at all had I left my truck in his lot. I have a court date in a month before....I am supposed to have the other 400 dollars paid by then or appear in court.
Now if you are anything like me you are probably thinking; "there is no way all of that happened due to an expired license and headlight being out." I can't believe it either and that is why I am so damn pissed.
I will be happy to scan the citation, and cash bond receipt to show any non-believers.
This chit is ridicules....it is precisely this type of behaviour on the part of law enforcement that cause major resentment among regular people...just trying to get from point A to point B.
I know the sheriff pretty well, I know the Police Chief pretty well, I am good friends with the mayor...(yeah, small town). I play poker with the town prosecutor...hell, I cooked for his wedding reception. I am pretty sure that I can get out of this since there is not really chit to it. But I have never asked a favor like that from anyone...I don't wanna ask for one now...but what the piss ever happened to discretion and common sense.
I still don't know about being able to be arrested for my particular offenses but I was in violation so I complied with the officer long enough to get loose.
In all honesty, I think what I hate the most about the entire ordeal is the way that it makes me feel about things like police...its amazing to me even as I type this very sentence the amount of animosity that can be generated over what I perceive to be stupid indiscretion....all in the name of generating revenue.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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Well...if you dislike the US system...then what should you do? It's obvious there is an issue. Hence the reason I asked you to observe the Indian system. What would you prefer? The US or something different? Curious to hear your solution. -------------------------------------------------
Gripe what else?
The Indian system appears to have more flaws than just getting to court, from the very little i know and the very little i care to know. It appears you can pretty much get away with anything in some areas, especially against women, without even worrying about a legal system.
But that seems to be the case in other countries also.
Do not think i want to touch India's, Mexico's or many other countries legal systems, seeems like a life time goal to become an expert to even know where to start.
As far as the US system and what i should do, other than gripe. Not really sure i can do a lot by myself. Maybe if i had two or three hundred million dollars and lots of time i wanted to use on trying to change the legal system.
Wish i had a quick and easy solution to just the flaws that i see when i have entered the court system.
Unfortunately i don't, but as i said there is a ton of money involved for a very few people with a lot of power, and i am very sure that it is hard to penetrate this core, even if i had 200 million spare change.
Maybe you have observed better things in court system than me.
How can judges continually delay court dates for almost anything, backing up the systems for real trials.
It's all about money and those unlucky people that enter the court system without any, better hope they have a lucky rabbits foot, or a good cause that a lawyer can get publicity from. If not, there is a good chance he or she will be on the short end of the stick.
The bigger the case the more money you need, expert testimony doesn't come cheap and the lawyers hourly fee's will eat most of us alive.
Knew of a salesman back in the 80's, shot and killed a guy in self defense, at least that's what he said. The salesman said they pulled off the road when the other guy had road rage. Anyway, the last i had heard he had millions into his defense.
Not much is simple anymore in the court system, maybe its the laws, maybe it's the lawyers, it's both.
posted
Rounder, I'm not sure why you were arrested to be honest. Those are all misdemaeanors.
I drove around for several weeks with an expire dl icense lat year by accident too... it's a birthday thing here. when i renewed mine i went ahead and got it for twenty years.. crazy huh? i don't even want to live in this state now...
when you go to get your new one? you'll need your social, proof of residence like electric bill and more, make sure you check first so you know what all to bring. all this began this year because of terroists and illegal immigrant laws... that's why i got mine for so long last year.
they have me listed as a feamle on mine now, can't wait for somenutjob to catch that one and put me in the clink and they made me give up a thumbprint which had been optional before. not any more....
pretty soon? it'll be an app on your phone long with your resime and your medical history.. once they get everybodyu hooked on htat? they'll put all on an RFID chip in your wirst along with your fincial records and credit reprts and credit cards... all designed to make your life easier (right?)
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posted
OK, Rounder, so far? I haven't found a procedure specific to traffic violations and misdemeanors in GA. However, Ga does recognise thatthey should not be hauling people to jail for every other type of misdemaeanor. I would expect you have to been given asummons to appear and sent home as long as yur car was not on the road anymore...
Copyright (c) 2005 Georgia State University Georgia State University Law Review ARTICLE: SHOULD GEORGIA CHANGE ITS MISDEMEANOR ARREST LAWS TO AUTHORIZE ISSUING MORE FIELD CITATIONS?
CAN AN ALTERNATIVE ARREST PROCESS HELP ALLEVIATE GEORGIA'S JAIL OVERCROWDING AND REDUCE THE TIME ARRESTING OFFICERS EXPEND PROCESSING NONTRAFFIC MISDEMEANOR OFFENSES?
Winter, 2005 22 Ga. St. U.L. Rev. 313 Author Judge Warren Davis*, Chief Magistrate, Gwinnett County, Georgia
Excerpt
Introduction
A sampling of headlines of Georgia newspapers regularly cites two recurring criminal justice problems: (1) overcrowded jails and (2) a shortage of law enforcement officers.n1 This Article explores whether implementing a discretionary arrest process for nontraffic misdemeanor offenders could help alleviate both of these problems. In appropriate cases, the proposed alternative lessens the number of misdemeanor offenders held in pretrial detention facilities by eliminating custodial arrests and subsequent bonding procedures. With fewer misdemeanor offenders initially incarcerated, jail overcrowding lessens. The alternative process can also decrease the time arresting officers spend to arrest, process, "book," and seek arrest warrants for these nontraffic misdemeanor offenders, freeing these officers to perform other patrol duties.
This discretionary, alternative arrest process is not new. It already exists as the criminal procedure alternative to custodial arrests for nontraffic offenses in 46 states.n2 A number of national police organizations as well as organizations responsible for setting criminal justice standards throughout the United States have endorsed the discretionary procedure:
i think you can access this link without subscrition
posted
Yeah...that is kinda what I was thinking as well. I was not even tested for DUI...no field sobriety...roadside breathalyzer....nothing.
But as it stands right now a dark headlamp and expired license is going to cost $950 by the time you tack on the $150 that it cost to have my truck towed 3.5 miles.
Anyway...thx for the article. The circumstance of this dictated I had to come work last night when I was let go because that was the only time I could count on a ride so if I am figuring I have worked 20 out of the last 37 hours and have been awake with no sleep since 4 AM yesterday...and it looks like its gonna be several more hours before I will be able to get a ride home.....all over petty chit.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)
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it "had" to be him because IBM AND DEC (Digital Eq. Corp, #1 and #2 in the early 80's) both rejected him entirely.
both companies had their chance to contract withim and thus abosrb abd control him and htey blew him off an dignored him.
trust me i know (elder) people in both companies that laughed about him in the mid-80's and said he was crazy to put so much effort into personal computing devices.. these peopel were all so deep inot the mainframe/workstation and mini-main-frame mentality that they saw PC as nothing more than trumped up typewriters... had either IBM or DEC been smart enough they would stll be on to. worse is that they the govt juice then to shut him down complelteyl if they wanted... they didn't...
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quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Yeah...that is kinda what I was thinking as well. I was not even tested for DUI...no field sobriety...roadside breathalyzer....nothing.
But as it stands right now a dark headlamp and expired license is going to cost $950 by the time you tack on the $150 that it cost to have my truck towed 3.5 miles.
Anyway...thx for the article. The circumstance of this dictated I had to come work last night when I was let go because that was the only time I could count on a ride so if I am figuring I have worked 20 out of the last 37 hours and have been awake with no sleep since 4 AM yesterday...and it looks like its gonna be several more hours before I will be able to get a ride home.....all over petty chit.
i'm not a lwayer, but if you pay the 950 to alwayer? and ask him why you got 'detained" (cuffed is detainment) over an expried license? you might be able to ge the whole thing to go away...
still out hte 950$ tho, AND your lawayer might be a chit and lose it anyway...
I owned a baot in Va. (actualyl i had about five) but i used to keep them in NC because i wa sonly 1 mile for the state line, and the boats were all for offshore tuna and bill fishing, so they don't tow very well... Wehn iwent to buy this hous i'm in 8 years later? the mortgage co. MADE me paya Va tax bill of 150$ for a boat i never had to pay taxes on. the mortgage co refused to give the loan even with a 780 plus credit rtatin over 20% down AND a 12% ratio of house payment to income... go figure that chit... i could have spent 500$ to go "fix" the buill or pay the 150$. I DID pay taxes on the boat i kept in Va at the house -it was only 18 feet and easily towable.. the odd part is that i had owne dht eboat for years and they only demande the one year of moeny and they only demanded that moeny about a year and half after i left Va to live in Ca.... it was all nonesense.
we are just a nation of crooks.
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posted
actaully? IMO, you did very well to not get yourself into more trouble for being cuffed. i would have been tempoted to take the cuffs off and hand them back to eh officer as a joke...
Concealable, plastic universal handcuff Key - 4 Pack of keys. 4 Different Colors. Popular as a SERE kit key.
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