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Author Topic: Zimmeran-martin case
Lockman
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Zimmerman should walk, self defense.

Procecution should not be allowed to ask for lessor charge if it was not disclosed.

Any conviction in this case will be overturned upon appeal.

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Let's Go METS!!!

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Zimmerman should walk, self defense.

Procecution should not be allowed to ask for lessor charge if it was not disclosed.

Any conviction in this case will be overturned upon appeal.

manslaughter is the lesser charge that was accepted.
it's not as simple as self-defense. did you watch them slamming the dummy on the ground?

Zimmerman otuweighed martin by 50 lbs, that dummy flopped around like rag dol.. but we all know that's BS....
manslughter is what happened. there is no doubt.

self-defense is not beyond doubt. however, the jury is who gets to decide that not you and me...

it's chitty situation, made worse by cops who refused to do their job. you have to ask yourself what the kid did wrong. and what would you do if some dude started following you around when you are walking in your own neighborhood...


appeal? what appeal? you do not have an automatic right to appeal a jury verdict

that's why the judge asked Zimmerman specifically if he would testify, becuase he now cannot say he had bad legal represetnation on that point..

even more important? he didn't testify in his own behalf on self-defense.... that IS VERY BAD. he needdd to look at the jury and tell them he was afraid for his life... that's self-defense... nobdoy else can say what he was thinking but himslef... he didn't do that, the jury has little choice now, but to convict him on manslughter which was always on the docket. the judge could have "canceled" that ticket, but she didn't.

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raybond
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one thing I have learned in my life is never guess what a jury will do, especially a jury that is 100% women. All I can say to all of you don't be surprised.

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glassman
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i won't be surprised, they could convict him of murder based on his telephone calls - and they could turn him loose based on being supportive of neighborhood watch...

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raybond
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Another all I can say is I hope my old lady does not read my post

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Another all I can say is I hope my old lady does not read my post

LOL... it's not sexist, it just show how us inferior males cannot figger out how women really think... [Were Up]

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glassman
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the Judge is a woman too.... so Zimmerna is not being judged by his peers, he's being judged by his superiors [BadOne]

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by rounder1:
Here is an interesting sidebar since we are discussing the legal system. I just got arrested tonight....and all though you cannot tell from the written text; I am absolutely fuming!

I was a big time criminal too....lemme tell you about it.

First off, I was completely polite and compliant without exception. The officer was about as nice as you could ask for from an arresting officer.

The stop was initiated because he said that I had a headlight out....this occurred at dusk but I know that it was working this morning when I drove to work at 5:00 AM. Upon being stopped we both discovered/realized that my license expired on June 27th. Other than that nothing....no drinking,drugs, speeding, swerving, insurance was paid up, tag was good....nothing. The officer and I were completely amicable for the entire ordeal.

Nevertheless,I was handcuffed taken to the sheriffs office...handcuffs removed and manacles applied to my ankles. I was fingerprinted (electronically). After being detained for approximately 1.5 hours I was told that I could post a 400 dollar cash bond and go home....Oh, I forgot to mention they had my truck towed....even though I personally know the owner of the station where I pulled over and he would not have cared at all had I left my truck in his lot. I have a court date in a month before....I am supposed to have the other 400 dollars paid by then or appear in court.

Now if you are anything like me you are probably thinking; "there is no way all of that happened due to an expired license and headlight being out." I can't believe it either and that is why I am so damn pissed.

I will be happy to scan the citation, and cash bond receipt to show any non-believers.

This chit is ridicules....it is precisely this type of behaviour on the part of law enforcement that cause major resentment among regular people...just trying to get from point A to point B.

I know the sheriff pretty well, I know the Police Chief pretty well, I am good friends with the mayor...(yeah, small town). I play poker with the town prosecutor...hell, I cooked for his wedding reception. I am pretty sure that I can get out of this since there is not really chit to it. But I have never asked a favor like that from anyone...I don't wanna ask for one now...but what the piss ever happened to discretion and common sense.

I still don't know about being able to be arrested for my particular offenses but I was in violation so I complied with the officer long enough to get loose.

In all honesty, I think what I hate the most about the entire ordeal is the way that it makes me feel about things like police...its amazing to me even as I type this very sentence the amount of animosity that can be generated over what I perceive to be stupid indiscretion....all in the name of generating revenue.

If you can't get a straight answer from your bud the prosecutor, I'd say hire the best damn lawyer you can afford (even if out of town, but an expert in these matters), to at least look over the case.

Something is wrong.

Oh, as for the main point of this thread, I'd say Glass has his pulse on Vegas...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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rounder, it occurs to me that the towing company may have a reward program in place for getting business... i was peripherally aware of such schemes at times in the past (in different places)

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rounder1
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I was wondering if something like that was not going on. One of the two cops that were present was in an awful big hurry to have it towed. He asked me if I had someone that could come and get it and I did. He allowed them maybe 15 minutes to get there...my guys got their about 25 minutes after I called them and the wrecker was already picking it up.

I still have not decided what steps I may take. I spent yesterday at the DDS (formerly known as the DMV) getting a renewed license....which now requires two pieces of mail with current address, social security card, and certified birth certificate.

At any rate, I think I am going to give it a couple of days before I do anything else...wanna be good and cooled off and then try and take an objective look at the entire thing....

My apologies for High-Jacking the thread.

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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glassman
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which now requires two pieces of mail with current address, social security card, and certified birth certificate.


beleive it or not? becuase of the politics and the socio-economic crises of where i live? my kids have had to have that to enroll in school every year since i got here 8 years ago... even to re-enroll in the same school [More Crap]

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glassman
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as defense attroney? i would not like it that the jury got this on a Friday afternoon- i haven't been watching the boobtube today, so i assume that htey are not being sent home for the weekend...

and even tho i have expressed my opinion thta it's manslaughter, i agree witth raybond in that any jury could come back with anything, i didn't see the same stuff the jury saw...

if Zimmerman walks? i expect to have lot's of issue where i live...
even "only" a manslaughter conviction with the sentence i proposed would likely be cause for serious "tensions"- the living condition where i live are sub-standard even for MS:

The Mississ
ippi Delta consists of a number of counties on either side of the Missis
sippi River in
Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana, that used to be the alluvial floodplain for the river. This land,
flat and fertile from years of Mississippi River flooding, creat
ed the unique agricultural heritage of the
region. The Delta counties have many cultural and historical similarities, including the Delta’s claim to
being the birthplace of the Blues.
However, the Delta also suffers many persistent and troubling health,
economic, and social problems.
T
he following figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the Delta Health Alliance show that
the
Mississippi Delta’s
conditions are among the worst
in the nation, often on par with those of some developing countries:

Nationally, the percent of individuals living below poverty is 12.4%. This rate is 19.9% in
Mississippi and 29.16% in the Mississippi Delta.

Nationally, the median family household incom
e in 2007 was $50,233. Mississippi ranks 50
th
in the U.S. with regard to household income, at $32,397. This rate is even lower for the Delta.

Nationally, 19.6% of adults do not have a high school diploma. The percentage of adults in
Mississippi without a
high school diploma is 27.1%, while 36.48% of adults in the Mississippi
Delta lack a high school diploma.

Nationally, the infant mortality rate is 6.8 per thousand births. The rate in Mississippi is over 10
per thousand, the highest in the nation. The rat
e is over 17 in some Mississippi Delta counties.

Mississippi leads the United States in its obesity rate (32.8%), the rate of deaths resulting from
cardiovascular disease (rates 30% above the national median), and stroke death rate.
Though these alarmin
g statistics tell a grim story about the Delta, it is not the whole story.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/clinical/lsc/Delta_Fellow_2013.pdf

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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raybond
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Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News
Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News 1 hour ago SocietyShooting of Trayvon Martin

.


SANFORD, Fla--After more than 12 hours of deliberation, the jury in the George Zimmerman case has asked the court for "clarification" on the charge of manslaughter. The question is likely to make the defense nervous, since it suggests the all-female jury could be seriously weighing a conviction on the lesser charge in the case.

Both the prosecution and defense agreed that the jurors need to ask a more specific question, saying they cannot engage in "general discussions" about the charge. Judge Debra Nelson agreed to send the attorneys' response back to the jurors around 7:00 p.m. Saturday night.

Zimmerman, a 29-year-old volunteer neighborhood watchman, is charged with second-degree murder in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, whom the defendant shot during a scuffle in a nearby gated community on Feb 26, 2012. The jury was also told it could convict Zimmerman on the lesser charge of manslaughter, or acquit him as not guilty of any crime. Zimmerman argued he acted in self defense.

The jury was told in its instructions that a Zimmerman merited a manslaughter charge if he killed Martin intentionally.

The jurors deliberated for 12.5 hours--including a one-hour lunch during which they were allowed to discuss the case--before alerting the court they had a question. "May we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter?" the question read. The sequestered, anonymous jurors only made one other request during their deliberations--for an itemized list of all the evidence presented during the trial on Friday.

For the jury to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder, the prosecution would have to prove that Zimmerman had “a depraved mind without regard for human life” when he shot Martin. A lesser manslaughter conviction could be handed down if the jury believes Zimmerman had no lawful reason to kill Martin. Zimmerman is legally justified in killing Martin if the jury finds he had a “reasonable” belief that his own life was in jeopardy or that he could suffer bodily harm from Martin.

In closing arguments Friday, Assistant District Attorney John Guy argued that it was the unarmed Martin who tried to defend himself. “Ask yourself, ‘Who lost the fight?’” Guy said. “That child had every right to be afraid of a strange man following him, first in his car and then on foot. And did that child not have the right to defend himself from that strange man?”

Zimmerman’s attorney Mark O’Mara argued over three hours in his closing remarks that Martin was not “unarmed.” He dragged out a chunk of concrete and laid it in front of the jury to make the point that Martin used the pavement as a “weapon” against his client when he allegedly slammed his head against it in their scuffle.

Before beginning their deliberations, jurors received the following instructions pertaining to manslaughter:

MANSLAUGHTER
To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Trayvon Martin is dead.
2. George Zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin.

George Zimmerman cannot be guilty of manslaughter by committing a merely negligent act or if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide:
Each of us has a duty to act reasonably toward others. If there is a violation of that duty, without any conscious intention to harm, that violation is negligence.
The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if necessarily done while resisting an attempt to murder or commit a felony upon George Zimmerman, or to commit a felony in any dwelling house in which George Zimmerman was at the time of the killing.

The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:
1. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or
2. When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or
3. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that George Zimmerman had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.

If you find George Zimmerman committed Manslaughter, and you also find beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the Manslaughter, George Zimmerman carried, displayed, used, threatened to use, or attempted to use a firearm, you should check the appropriate box on the verdict form which I will discuss with you later in these instructions.


..

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raybond
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Not Guilty , very interesting chain of events may follow

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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glassman
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interesting, yeah, wonder how long it will take to get instersting?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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what i find really fascinating ishow many people will now say that the jury verdict proves that the case had no merits and should not have been brought...
those instructions that you posted ray? that's how i understand manslaughter to work too...

now we will see even more people demanding more gun control laws ( which i don't like)


May 15, 2012 2:42 PM



Fla. woman Marissa Alexander gets 20 years for "warning shot": Did she stand her ground?
By Julia Dahl

Marissa Alexander

(CBS) - Last Friday, Jacksonville mother Marissa Alexander was sentenced by a Florida judge to 20 years in prison for firing what she says was a "warning shot" into the wall after a physical altercation with her husband, Rico Gray.



20 years and no one even got shot?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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raybond
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I really don't see anything good coming out of this decision.

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
I really don't see anything good coming out of this decision.

OK, intersting stuff? you bet!

Zimmermans dad was Judge in Orange Co Fla.

Geroge got off before on felony assault ofpolice officer! That is his B-day and his middle name...


Location : Orange County
Register of Actions
Case No. 2005-CF-009525-A-O
STATE OF FLORIDA - VS - ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL §
§
§
§
§
§
§
§

Case Type: Criminal Felony
Date Filed: 07/18/2005
Location: Div 10
Judicial Officer: OKane, Julie H
Inmate Booking Number: 05200584
Uniform Case Number: 482005CF009525000AOX
Party Information
Lead Attorneys
Defendant ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
DOB: 10/05/1983 ZAHRA SHANAZ UMANSKY, Esquire
Retained
407-228-3838(W)

Plaintiff STATE OF FLORIDA
Charge Information
Charges: ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL Statute Level Date
1. CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE 843.01 Third Degree - Felony 07/16/2005
2. BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER 784.07(2)(B) Third Degree - Felony 07/16/2005
Events & Orders of the Court
OTHER EVENTS AND HEARINGS
08/30/2005 Receipt of Original Papers
RECEIPT OF ORIGINAL PAPERS FILED TO 05-MM-10436
08/29/2005 Request for Administrative Transfer
REQUEST FOR ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSFER TO COUNTY COURT
08/05/2005 Notice of Appearance
NOTICE OF APPEARANCE FILED ZAHRA S. UMANSKY
08/05/2005 Waiver of Arraignment
WAIVER OF ARRAIGNMENT
08/05/2005 Written Plea of Not Guilty
WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY ENTERED
08/05/2005 Notice of Intent to Participate in Discovery
NOTICE OF INTENT TO PARTICIPATE IN DISCOVERY
08/05/2005 Waiver of Defendant's Attendance at Pre-Trial
WAIVER DEFT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONF
08/05/2005 Demand for Disclosure of Criminal Records
DEMAND FOR DISCLOSURE OF CRIMINAL RECORDS
08/05/2005 Demand for Exculpatory Information
DEMAND FOR EXCULPATORY INFORMATION
07/18/2005 Complaint
COMPLAINT FILED
07/18/2005 Bond Filed
POLAKOFF BOND FILED RET TBN $1000 A061766193
07/18/2005 Arrest Affidavit
ARREST AFFIDAVIT FILED - DOA <07/16/2005>
Financial Information


Defendant ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
Total Financial Assessment 46.00
Total Payments and Credits 46.00
Balance Due as of 07/14/2013 0.00
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5782626

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc


Truth about the case

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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unbelievable. the friggin Prosecuting attorney now admits she should have gone for manslughter to begin with...

duh! that's what it was.

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buckstalker
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Cash...Have you read/listened to this guys book "The Handbook of Human Ownership - A Manual for New Tax Farmers"?

If you have....how can you still believe that the republicans are any better or different than the democrats??

They are ALL one in the same...


quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc


Truth about the case


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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
Cash...Have you read/listened to this guys book "The Handbook of Human Ownership - A Manual for New Tax Farmers"?

If you have....how can you still believe that the republicans are any better or different than the democrats??

They are ALL one in the same...


quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc


Truth about the case


i don't have 35 minutes to sit an listen to a video.

cash refuses to acknowledge that partisanship is the judas goats main tool...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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my research indicates to me (now) that Zimmeran is memebr of the privileged class.

this prolly was not about race fro Zimmerman because Zimmermans matrnal great grandather (maternal twice) is of African descent. In other words, Zimmerman is not white. Zimmemans mother is Peruvian of mixed descent. That is no the issue, th eissue is privilege derived from his fathers position as Judge, and the Feds prolly will not be able to pursue a case no matter how much it hurts them...

the fact that Obama and Holder cannot pursue a case is going to hurt them politically.. (part of the plan?)

political privilege is the problem here. if that video cover that stuff? good.

Zimmerman was very familair with the laws, as i am because of my family realtionships too...

th fact hat he used them to cover up a manslughter sux. the kid had one shot fired into his heart, if it had been 2 (two shots fired at all) then it would have been murder2 and a hate crime. Zimmerman is no dummy.... we been played... and it sure looks to me like the prosecution aided that play...
it's that simple.. ye shall reap what ye sow... i have always belived that and have behaved accordingly. Zimmerna will reap what he has sown too.. but it won't be by any action of mine.. don't want nutt'n to do with it anymore..

--------------------
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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
Cash...Have you read/listened to this guys book "The Handbook of Human Ownership - A Manual for New Tax Farmers"?

If you have....how can you still believe that the republicans are any better or different than the democrats??

They are ALL one in the same...


quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-Ax5E8EJc


Truth about the case


i don't have 35 minutes to sit an listen to a video.

cash refuses to acknowledge that partisanship is the judas goats main tool...

Whatever glass, I know that the dollar rules king on earth and everything else is its subject, the Republicans, or the Dems.


I just happen to side with the ones who spend the money protecting gun ownership. Abortion is barbaric, and we need peace through strength in the military.

Our international status is quickly eroding under this arrogant President. He flip flops more than Mitt Romney.

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glassman
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cash, here's a 4 minute video that i do have time to watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01nSGb6waE8

i don't agree with half of what the guy says..but i have time to listen to that much

pay no attention to the man behind the curtian...

i don't have anything to add to this case anymore...

the whole thing stinks, and it just increases th eprssure to make more gun bans(whihc i do not support either)

i made my opinion clear enough here. you are entitled to yours.

don't get mad at me when i tell you that partisanship is the main tool of the judas goats. it is. i figured that out under Bush. it took Waco, and ruby ridge and then 9-11 for me to get it, so i'm not claiming any superior powers of observation or judgemtn. i just know that i am fed up and i will keep voting. i may vote GOP next time, i will prolly vote for anybody besides hillary... sad to say that i might elect another hitler becuase of that, but it's just plain truth...

as to Obama? i critisize him where i feel he is worng.. he is correct to use drones overseas, drones here are fine UNTIL they are armed.. i don't care about them, becuase an aiprlane can already do everything they do... just like th estrikes overseas.. whihc i support. it saves our peoples lives- drones make US much more powerful, don't pretend Obama is weak, he isn't- you just don't like him for your own reasons.. get over it.

Texas? new abortion law bans it at 20 weeks- i proposed a complete ban at 26 wks or so right here (posted that a dozen or more times)... did i (my posts) personally make a difference? maybe, maybe reasonable people got my idea when i posted it here YEARS ago... it is reasonable, but it makes folks mad... and it will be a poltical problem.. i chose 26 weeks because that is when a fetus is able to make it on it's own...

nobody is for abortion. i don't 'like" them. but stem cells are not people...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By glassman:

Texas? new abortion law bans it at 20 weeks- i proposed a complete ban at 26 wks or so right here (posted that a dozen or more times)... did i (my posts) personally make a difference? maybe, maybe reasonable people got my idea when i posted it here YEARS ago... it is reasonable, but it makes folks mad... and it will be a poltical problem.. i chose 26 weeks because that is when a fetus is able to make it on it's own...

nobody is for abortion. i don't 'like" them. but stem cells are not people...

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I am still concerned with what happens after the baby is born if the parents don't really want the kid or can't afford the kid, etc. etc.

It's nice to think that every kid will be adopted no matter what the circumstances, but in reality that's not the case.

When and if to have an abortion,I'm not sure who in reality should make this choice other than the mother and father, if present.

As usual the lawyers and judges make the real decisions in the end, with a lot of fighting between the churches and others.

Wonder if they would adopt all the kids that no one else would adopt? Of course we know the answer to that.


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Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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20 weeks is five months. if we could get a ratioanl decision on this and move on to other problems? i think that would be good thing.


the irony of this is that somehow some people have made it legal to shoot kids on the street. but hey want to make sure they have plenty of kids to shoot at huh?

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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How about this problem in Huntington Beach. You think some of these guys might be had with all the pictures?

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huntington-beach-riot-social-media-2 0130729,0,4602387.story

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rounder1
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I think that I may have said it on this board but I could be mistaken. I have thought ever since the charges were brought against Zimmerman that the prosecution was deliberately over charging him for the sole purpose that they could not convict him on it. They brought charges to appease the Martin sympathizers and they over did it to appease the Zimmerman sympathizers by way of acquittal.

For the most part it worked if that was in fact the plan all along. The people at either edge were going to be pissed regardless, but they effectively avoided polarizing the vast majority of the middle....by way of giving the appearance that the justice system has played out as intended.

Just my .02 worth

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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CashCowMoo
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Pastor manning making his case on Trayvon


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAFPIPiyoqA

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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IWISHIHAD
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Rounder 1, what happened on your case?

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Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rounder1
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Actually I was in the dollar store picking up some cleaning supplies yesterday and ran into the sheriff. He asked me if I had paid the fines in full yet and I told him that I had not. I still have a little over 300 bucks to pay before the court date. He said not to worry about it and he would take care of with the police chief...

That kind of made me angry for a couple of reasons. I plan on paying it off Thursday. It may sound silly or petty but I don't want to "owe" anyone over something that I view to be stupid....and if any of them (sheriff, police chief, mayor, or prosecutor) wanted to "handle it"....they could do so without waiting until they run into me at a store and offer hushed tones, nods, and winks. I know that comes off as crazy but it just doesn't sit well with me.

Plus I kinda wonder where all the money that I already have paid ends up if it is "handled." I think that I would rather pay it all and there be a record of it than to have what I have already paid end up in somebodies wallet because its been dropped....

I realize that it sounds like cutting off my own nose just to spite my face but the whole ordeal has just sat way wrong with me.

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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IWISHIHAD
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Sounds like your between a rock and a hard place, sucking situation.

It's like their doing you a favor while screwing you in the first place.

It must be hard to deal with this type of situation in a small town.

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