one more thing, i didn't say anything about killing any US citizen anywhere by the military without "due process" is not acceptable.
killng soemone in a firefight while they resist capture is NOT the same as sending a drone with hellfire.... so try to read better next time..
Apoclypse Now was about sending in a hit man to murder a US citizen gone rogue in antoher country.. nobody consodered it the least bit legal then eitehr. but they did it.
i we are going to claim that the USA is an exceptional nation? this goes a long way to making that claim hollow.
------------------------------------------------- If that is what you feel then I have no problem with that and we agree.
I hope that you don't want to hang yourself after hearing that.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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posted
LOL- all they 'need" do toprovide due process is have a Judicial review of the acts that these fg-ing guys commit to lose their protected status.
just re,ember that thi only applies outside the US, when they start using deadly force for 'convenince" sake in side the US? all bets are off anbd the Govt is gone rogue...
remebr ruby ridge? and waco? that was your boy Clinton behind that crap.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Apoclypse Now was about sending in a hit man to murder a US citizen gone rogue in antoher country.. nobody consodered it the least bit legal then eitehr. but they did it. -------------------------------------------------
Apoclypse Now was fiction, i assume everyone knows that. It was a movie more about frustration by the american people and some soldiers, than anything else.
Some parts of the movie had reality in them.
There was one important thing to come out of that movie, war does not necessarily have due process. Whether it be Americans involved or other nations, even when it becomes an american vs. american. That's the reality.
Maybe in some cases, due process in war becomes a liability. Sometimes we are the only ones allowing this due process, which means we have more casualties than we should.
I think that's why the american people have so much trouble dealing with the wars of today.
It's not about fair fights, two gun slingers on the street drawing against each other, drawing at the same time. It's about killing and running, and doing whatever needs to be done to win, including killing their own people to get information etc.
posted
i agree iwish, Apocolyspe now was fiction, but it posed moral dilammas that are still relevent now and were then too... my ONLY issue is that when you send drones in? you are not risking anything but some hardware, which is a good thing, but drones do not accept a surrender do they? and that IS the problem i have. You can have a trail and find them guilty of treaosn that would make this all legit. Drones are not heat of battel, they are cold-blooded decisons madein board rooms type settings..
BTW? if the target is not an American and one is in the way? that's colateral damage, it is only the intentional; execution of an American Citizen that is targeted that i have questions about. I donot question that it has to be done, just how it is done.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I just wactched a natgeo special on 21st centruy warships... the Navy today looks nothing like the navy i was in. everything is remote control and joysticks run everything now.. drones are part of the fabric of the new miltary and are not going away... they are even running 27 foot speed boat drones at 30 knots on the high seas now.. one of those armed with harpoons and released from a mother ship (carrier) could do some real damage
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Face it wars of th future are going to be fought by a very small percentage of the poulation using hi tech. most wars will be something that we see on the evening news and not feel the pain in our daily lives. to me this is a very dangerous step for humanity it might even lead to our destruction.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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i agree iwish, Apocolyspe now was fiction, but it posed moral dilammas that are still relevent now and were then too... my ONLY issue is that when you send drones in? you are not risking anything but some hardware, which is a good thing, but drones do not accept a surrender do they? and that IS the problem i have. You can have a trail and find them guilty of treaosn that would make this all legit Drones are not heat of battel, they are cold-blooded decisons madein board rooms type settings.. BTW? if the target is not an American and one is in the way? that's colateral damage, it is only the intentional; execution of an American Citizen that is targeted that i have questions about. I do not question that it has to be done, just how it is done. ------------------------------------------------- When i was speaking of american vs. american, i was refering to what can happen in the field, without due process, when guys don't get along, or do something really wrong. Sometimes the bullet becomes the only due process.
I understand what your saying about drones,the good news and the bad news all rolled into one.
posted
Sweating Obama Admits Drone Strikes Have Been Happening On Their Own News in Brief • politicians • barack obama • News • ISSUE 49•06 • Feb 8, 2013 WASHINGTON—Speaking at a hastily called White House press conference Friday, a visibly tense and perspiring President Barack Obama confessed that the United States’ fleet of roughly 700 armed drones have been conducting airstrikes entirely on their own for the past several years. “Look, I’m just going to come clean here: Every single U.S. drone currently deployed has been selecting and bombing targets without any guidance from military officials on the ground,” a trembling Obama told reporters, admitting that he last authorized a drone attack in 2010, and that recent strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and most perplexingly, the Philippines, have been planned and executed entirely by the unmanned combat air vehicles themselves. “I’ll admit that the extensive use of drone aircraft was something my administration readily embraced, but we’ve lost all contact with these things, and as it stands now, we have no idea who or what is controlling them—or if they’re even being controlled at all. Jesus, these things are terrifying. We need to shut them down before it’s too late!” At press time, all the blood had reportedly drained from Obama’s face and he stood stock-still as a faint whirring noise could be heard high above the White House briefing room. http://www.theonion.com/articles/sweating-obama-admits-drone-strikes-have-been-h app,31219/?ref=auto
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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close off the border what a joke. We will never do that the expense would be to great that is if you could ever do it.
The only people that ever closed a border to keep people out that I know off were the Chinese with the great wall to keep people out and the Romans in Briton. The Nazies did it but that was to keep people in. WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WANTED TO GO TO NAZI GERMANY, MR. HENRY FORD WAS THE EXCEPTION.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: close off the border what a joke. We will never do that the expense would be to great that is if you could ever do it.
The only people that ever closed a border to keep people out that I know off were the Chinese with the great wall to keep people out and the Romans in Briton. The Nazies did it but that was to keep people in. WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WANTED TO GO TO NAZI GERMANY, MR. HENRY FORD WAS THE EXCEPTION.
Too expensive?? Are you kidding me? If we have drones being built would you rather them watch you or the border?
Too expensive? Do you realize how expensive it is to you and me for each and every one that comes here? Not only do they take our work but we give them food and in some cases shelter too. They cost our country in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. I don't think we can afford not to.
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