quote:Originally posted by raybond: Relentless, your argument would make a great case for a prisoner convicted of murder 20 years ago, sentenced to life, up for parole, and we say "well he hasnt done anything lately so why are we trying to restrain him from society?"
Cash do not get into an area that you know nothing about. There are no books that can explain what you are talking about. After a while you will know in your guts who will make and who won't. And that is how someone like me made it to where I am it was on merit and results not a formal education.
Nobody really knows "where you are" ray, so lets not go exalting what you feel to be personal enlightenment when there is no data to support it.
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So by your logic the world should have acted pre-emptively on the US when Dubya was prez?
You eagerly agree he was a nutjob.. He was in charge of the button.. So the entire planet should have sanctioned us and then bombed the **** out of us when he was prez? Noooo?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: June, 2007: ''God willing, in the near future we will witness the destruction of the corrupt occupier regime..."
January, 2008: "I advise you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity which has reached the end of the line... It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers' days are numbered."
i can fill pages with this crap... he's telling US he intends to nuke them- he even says that he thinks nukes are a gift from Allah....
don't tell me i'm being duped by the conspiracists relentless, this guy is speaking plain as day...
i would no tsit around and take this crap off anybody..
the only question in my mind is why Israel is still waiting? something else is at play and htis ain't about false flags....
We believe that atomic energy is a blessing given by God,”
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quote
“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.”
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quote
it's actually textbook suicide by cop behaviour with a martyrdom chaser
First of all most of what you posted was very very far from direct threats.. Advice that one needs to change one's ways or fail is hardly an offensive threat.. I won't fill a page with threats made by Israel.. Simply a google search link with much much more than idle threats.. Real posturing and preparation for a preemptive attack maybe.. but not one idle threat.
So by your logic the world should have acted pre-emptively on the US when Dubya was prez?
You eagerly agree he was a nutjob.. He was in charge of the button.. So the entire planet should have sanctioned us and then bombed the **** out of us when he was prez? Noooo?
actually? there wasn't anybody to do it or Bush would not have done what he done..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I won't fill a page with threats made by Israel.. Simply a google search link with much much more than idle threats.. Real posturing and preparation for a preemptive attack maybe.. but not one idle threat.
top return of your seqarchlist is from the world socialist website. LOL...
Bush lied or passed on lies, so now Iran is taking advantage of his BS... Bush hurt this country pretty bad, but, as i've stated here for years, Iran is working on nukular weapon program and it is in no ones best interest that they get it.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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None of that gives us the right to attack them. We can't just decide someone leading a country is a wackjob and then bomb them... Where's the line?
If some other country or group of countries bombed us while Dubya was in office you would be calling for us to declare war on them..
Your logic here is flawed..
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: None of that gives us the right to attack them. We can't just decide someone leading a country is a wackjob and then bomb them... Where's the line?
If some other country or group of countries bombed us while Dubya was in office you would be calling for us to declare war on them..
Your logic here is flawed..
no it's not logic. you are questioning my morals...
it's sad isn't it? the proof will be in the bomb, just like when N Korea lit theirs...
you don't like Il much do you? why is it that Ahamdinejad is so close to your heart?
Bush played right into his hand. I cannot fix that, but i can look at the situation and formulate an opinion on this and it is my opinion that when Israel strikes Irans weapons program we will support them in deeds if not words.
i am not relying on "bad intel" i am listening directly to what the man has to say, and quite frankly? If you and your kids lived in Israel? You would hear what i hear too...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Nope, you're missing my point. I don't care about Iran's leader... I care about the morality of this nation and where it's government is leading us.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Nope, you're missing my point. I don't care about Iran's leader... I care about the morality of this nation and where it's government is leading us.
no i'm not missing your point at all...
i think that you may recall i began seriously questioning the iraq war long before it was popular to do so...
so tell me, in your opinion? if Sadam had WMD would we have been justiifed in attacking him?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Yup I remember you were right, then. I am right, this time.
There were sanctions in place as well as resolutions that expressly forbid Iraq from producing or aquiring WMD's. We had inspectors on the ground who found nothing. If they had found something there would have been no war as the UN would have enforced tougher resolutions. All of that was negotiated as a part of the cease fire from Bush1.
None of those legalities exist for dealing with Iran. Nor has Iran shown any aggression towards it's neighbors. Where as we have... Israel has. Many other nations.. have. Yet we do not make known plans to invade and decimate any of them... Why? Do they sit atop a vast ocean of oil? No.
posted
From the where the sun now stands, we should not have boots on the ground unless demanded by the direct necessity for defense of US citizens or for that of our immediate neighbors.
In other words, frankly, to save energy (capital, etc) instead of waiting for "barbarians at the gate" (metaphorical).
Case 1: Speaking of "things I posted," I said pretty early on that given the misguided attack on Iraq, we should've toppled the statues then pulled back, way back into the desert. From that vantage point, we could monitor the situation and attack by remote-control, as necessary. After awhile, peeps would figure out to get the phuk away from troublemakers.
Case 2: We need to stand down as world cop and stand up as World's Best IntelMaster, at which we now suck.
The factions who want to fight us? They should learn that the trade-off is immense. As it stands? Not so much...
Why? Because we're too willing to wade into a bar fight, in neighborhoods we don't know.
I don't like being the "cop" of the world. i am not pretending we are standing on some moral high ground.
Relentless?
you are not posting from a factual basis. I sense some sort of blind spot in you on this one.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Yup I remember you were right, then. I am right, this time.
There were sanctions in place as well as resolutions that expressly forbid Iraq from producing or aquiring WMD's. We had inspectors on the ground who found nothing. If they had found something there would have been no war as the UN would have enforced tougher resolutions. All of that was negotiated as a part of the cease fire from Bush1.
None of those legalities exist for dealing with Iran. Nor has Iran shown any aggression towards it's neighbors. Where as we have... Israel has. Many other nations.. have. Yet we do not make known plans to invade and decimate any of them... Why? Do they sit atop a vast ocean of oil? No.
Oh... Maybe that's why.
these claims are just incorrect. Iran is building a full nuke program, they sponsor trerrorsim. You say Israel attacks its neighbors. Well you don't really seem o know Israels history very much.
IMO< the only thing Israel is doing and has done that they should not be doing is settling on land that is apparently not theirs. For the most part, they have defended themselves so well that some people want to think they are attackers.
Israel has been attacked countless times and has defended themselves. These attacks you claim they have made were all justified. IMO Israel has shown great restraint in not doing much more damage to their enemies than they have.
The last big engagement? Israel went into Lebanon after having troops kidnapped at a border checkpoint. It was not pretty and the media likes to pick favorites and they painted a bad picture of Israel.
well if US Marines were kidnapped at US Embassy somewhere around the world tomorrow? I would expect Obama to go get those Marines back with force. That is assuming the kidnappers were sponsored by the state they are hiding in. When you don't respond with force? People begin to think they can do what they want to you. It really isn't about being "morally better" it's about maintaining your right to exist among the people that hate you. It doesn't matter why they hate you when the question is one of existence. You can work on that later
of course that would neve happen right?
oh wait a minute. Thats exaclty what Iran did to US. And Hezbollah? They are the ones that took the Israeli troops a the checkpoint on the Lebanon border.
Do you have an idea what Hezbolah is? It is a terrorist arm of the Iranian Government.
What is it hat you are "right about" here exaclty relentless? are you saying that Iran has no intention of building nuke weps or that they have the right to do so. Or are you saying they aren't building them and they are a peaceloving nation that we should not be cocnerned about?
I have no problem kicking their ass into the ground after the hostage crisis even if it is 30 years later.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
this is Israels attacks for you relentless, htis story has been repeated over and over again:
Lebanon: Hezbollah's way Analysis: Lebanon's southern frontier with Israel is the most volatile border in the Middle East today.
By Mohamad Bazzi - GlobalPost Published: August 7, 2010 10:16 ET in Middle East
BEIRUT, Lebanon — Everywhere in the Middle East these days, people are muttering about the possibility of war: between Israel and Hamas, or Israel and Hezbollah, or Israel and Syria, or among bickering Lebanese factions. Or maybe this war will involve everyone.
What might set off such a catastrophic conflict? Maybe it starts with Israeli soldiers trying to trim a tree.
That’s exactly what happened on Tuesday, when Lebanese troops fired on Israeli forces who were pruning a tree along the border between the two countries. That set off a series of skirmishes that killed two Lebanese soldiers, a Lebanese journalist and an Israeli commander.
In July 2006, Hezbollah abducted two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid, setting off a 34-day war that crippled Lebanon’s infrastructure, displaced one million people, and killed more than 1,200 Lebanese, the majority of them civilians. Since that conflict ended, both sides have been preparing for a new round. Hezbollah leaders boast that the group now has an even larger and more potent cache of missiles than it did four years ago. Israeli officials, who have also escalated their war rhetoric in recent months, estimate Hezbollah’s arsenal at between 40,000 and 80,000 rockets.
posted
Never specified only Israel as an aggressive neighbor.. I said neighbors.. Much of your basis is atop the belief we are in a war on terror and we have the right to determine who is or is not a "terrorist". That basis is not one rooted in reality. Our rulers were searching for an undefeatable global foe we could wage war against in perpetuity. They made one up by using an old CIA creation... Al Queda.
Truth is we have no right to go running around the world deciding who is good or bad. That sort of thing leads to a mighty fall when the world we are pillaging gets tired of it.
If Israel is so damned worried about Iran, tell them to use a couple of the 300 nukes we gave them and do it themselves... Why is it again Israel doesn't have to declare their weaponry or submit to inspections?
Fuzzy on that one.
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so, now you are telling me that Iran doesn't sponsor terrorism? That it's a big scam?
BTW? I'm still waiting to hear about an Israeli President calling for the destruction of any other countries.
And? the fact that Israel has nukes and hasn't used them offensively would indicate that we were correct in trusting them to have them.
Israel has used measured force over and over again to respond to being "messed with". In every instance of aggression on their part, you can find the cause and it's always been something like what happened earlier this month. Media People forget those incident real fast and like to show all the damage Israel inflicts on their attackers. The collateral damage is what the terrorists want, for PR.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, citing evidence of continued troubles inside Iran’s nuclear program, has persuaded Israel that it would take roughly a year — and perhaps longer — for Iran to complete what one senior official called a “dash” for a nuclear weapon, according to American officials.
posted
I'm guessing from that story, they have done some polling and found America's heart just isn't in it. Not to worry though.. a "galvanizing event" will fix that... Word has it Atlanta is next to get hit.. Something about it being a major hub for the internet they so despise.
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i hope they have the secret cocacola formula safe, we wouldn't want to lose that... it's only written down in one place and it's stored in Atlanta...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Now this is going to make some of you sad
quote:WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, citing evidence of continued troubles inside Iran’s nuclear program, has persuaded Israel that it would take roughly a year — and perhaps longer — for Iran to complete what one senior official called a “dash” for a nuclear weapon, according to American officials.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Happens here too... all the time. People here are electrocuted all the time for nothing.. Killed for merely not stopping..
Don't be so quick to judge.
You are a real Bill Ayers type arent you. People get electrocuted all the time for nothing. ALL THE TIME? I think what you were trying to say was that people sentenced to death may have been wrongfully sentenced. I will not argue that. It is inevitable.
Killed for merely not stopping...
Ok, what on earth are you talking about. Not stopping? Stopping what? Car? Stabbing someone?
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Happens here too... all the time. People here are electrocuted all the time for nothing.. Killed for merely not stopping..
Don't be so quick to judge.
You are a real Bill Ayers type arent you. People get electrocuted all the time for nothing. ALL THE TIME? I think what you were trying to say was that people sentenced to death may have been wrongfully sentenced. I will not argue that. It is inevitable.
Killed for merely not stopping...
Ok, what on earth are you talking about. Not stopping? Stopping what? Car? Stabbing someone?
quite distinguished company.. Biography/History
William Ayers, Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), and founder of both the Small Schools Workshop and the Center for Youth and Society, teaches courses in interpretive and qualitative research, urban school change, and teaching and the modern predicament. A graduate of the University of Michigan, the Bank Street College of Education, Bennington College, and Teachers College, Columbia University, Ayers has written extensively about social justice, democracy and education, the cultural contexts of schooling, and teaching as an essentially intellectual, ethical, and political enterprise. He is currently the vice-president of the curriculum division of the American Educational Research Association, and a member of the executive committee of the UIC Faculty Senate.
Ayers’ articles have appeared in many journals including the Harvard Educational Review, the Journal of Teacher Education, Teachers College Record, Rethinking Schools, The Nation, Educational Leadership, the New York Times and the Cambridge Journal of Education. His books include, with Bernardine Dohrn Race Course: Against White Supremacy (Third World Press 2008), Teaching Toward Freedom: Moral Commitment and Ethical Action in the Classroom (Beacon Press, 2004), A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court (Beacon Press, 1997), Fugitive Days: A Memoir (Beacon Press, 2001, 2008), On the Side of the Child: Summerhill Revisited (Teachers College Press, 2003), Teaching the Personal and the Political: Essays on Hope and Justice (Teachers College Press, 2004), The Good Preschool Teacher: Six Teachers Reflect on Their Lives, (Teachers College Press, 1989), and To Teach: The Journey of a Teacher, (Teachers College Press, 1993) which was named Book of the Year in 1993 by Kappa Delta Pi, and won the Witten Award for Distinguished Work in Biography and Autobiography in 1995. Edited books include: To Become a Teacher: Making a Difference in Children’s Lives (Teachers College Press, 1995); with Janet Miller, A Light in Dark Times: Maxine Greene and the Unfinished Conversation (Teachers College Press, 1997); with Pat Ford, City Kids/City Teachers: Reports from the Front Row (The New Press, 1996,2008); with Jean Ann Hunt and Therese Quinn, Teaching for Social Justice: A Democracy and Education Reader (The New Press and Teachers College Press, 1998); with Mike Klonsky and Gabrielle Lyon, A Simple Justice: The Challenge of Small Schools (Teachers College Press, 2000); with Rick Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, Zero Tolerance: Resisting the Drive for Punishment (The New Press, 2001); with Bernardine Dohrn and Jeff Jones, Sing a Battle Song: The Revolutionary Poetry, Statements, and Communiqués of the Weather Underground 1970 – 1974 (Seven Stories Press, 2006); with Gloria Ladson-Billings, Pedro Noguera, and Gregory Michie, City Kids/City Schools: More Reports From the Front Row ( The New Press, 2008); and with Therese Quinn and David Stovall, the Handbook of Social Justice in Education (Routledge, 2008). He lives in Hyde Park, Chicago with Bernardine Dohrn.
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Happens here too... all the time. People here are electrocuted all the time for nothing.. Killed for merely not stopping..
Don't be so quick to judge.
You are a real Bill Ayers type arent you. People get electrocuted all the time for nothing. ALL THE TIME? I think what you were trying to say was that people sentenced to death may have been wrongfully sentenced. I will not argue that. It is inevitable.
Killed for merely not stopping...
Ok, what on earth are you talking about. Not stopping? Stopping what? Car? Stabbing someone?
Electrocuted by taser all the time.. Last one I saw that was a real zinger was a bed ridden grand mother was tasered in her bed for assuming an offensive posture.. This stuff just can't be made up.
Next time some government enforcer demands you stop your car.. don't.. The result is they will kill you.
The United States has more people in prison than any other country on the planet while it has less people than most.. Are we just naturally bad people? No. Government is the problem..
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you know that a large percentage of the people in jail are only in jail cuz they are poor right?
a guy that can afford a 10,000$ attroney fee gets probation while the guy on the public defenders list gets jail...
happens every day....
Rush Limbugger is the perfect example.
take them and non-violent drug offenders out of th esytem and we get to a more normal level of prison population...
make drug crimes less "criminal" in general and alot of the violence associated with drug crime goes away too... desperate people do desperate things...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well yes that is a good point, but it doesn't detract from the fact that our legal system is now aimed at imprisoning as many people as possible. Does anyone even know the actual number of laws on the books anymore?.. I don't has to be a huge number.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Well yes that is a good point, but it doesn't detract from the fact that our legal system is now aimed at imprisoning as many people as possible. Does anyone even know the actual number of laws on the books anymore?.. I don't has to be a huge number.
Good points Rent and glass. Then you also have to add to the equation that alot of prisons are now run by corporations. And as we all know...corporations are all about the money.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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(CNN) -- Iran unveiled the first long-range military drone manufactured in the country on Sunday, state media reported.
The unmanned aerial vehicle is capable of carrying out bombing missions against ground targets and flying long distances at a high speed, Press TV said.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attended the unveiling of the drone, dubbed the "Karrar," in a ceremony marking Iran's Defense Industry Day.
In February, Iran inaugurated the production line for two types of drones with bombing and reconnaissance capabilities, the semiofficial Fars news agency reported.
Iran has manufactured its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and fighter planes since 1992, according to Press TV.
The country successfully tested a radar-evading drone with bombing capabilities in June 2009, Press TV said.
In March 2009, U.S. military officials said U.S. fighter jets in Iraq shot down an unmanned Iranian spy drone aircraft.
At the time, most major state-run media outlets in Iran did not carry news of any incident involving an Iranian drone and Iraq's national security adviser declined to comment.
Unmanned vehicles have become a staple of modern combat.
U.S. military officials have said remotely-controlled drones minimize risk and allow troops to spy on and attack enemy combatants.
Ahead of the drone's unveiling, Iran's defense minister said the country's military planned to reveal a project of "great importance" on Sunday, according to state-run Press TV.
"Iran's defense capability has reached a point which does not need any aid from other countries," Defense Minister Brig. Gen. Ahmad Vahidi said, according to the semiofficial Iranian Students News Agency.
It is not clear whether the unveiling of the long-range drone was the announcement he was referring to.
Vahidi's announcement Saturday came as Iran began fueling its first nuclear energy plant in the southern city of Bushehr, the nation's state media reported.
Press TV said the effort will help the country create nuclear-generated electricity.
But some Western nations have questioned whether the nuclear fuel will be used solely for electricity, suggesting that Iran would eventually try to enrich uranium on its own, providing material for nuclear weapons.
The United States has questioned Iran's motives in continuing to enrich uranium within its borders.
"Russia is providing the fuel, and taking the fuel back out," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said earlier this month.
"It, quite clearly, I think, underscores that Iran does not need its own enrichment capability if its intentions, as it states, are for a peaceful nuclear program," he said.
Iran has maintained all along that the site will produce energy, but the United States and some other international observers remain unconvinced.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, speaking to Russian reporters in the Black Sea resort of Sochi on Wednesday, brushed off Western concerns about the Bushehr facility, calling it "the most important anchor holding Iran to the nonproliferation regime," according to the Russian news agency RIA-Novosti.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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