posted
Income taxes only pay the interest on the national debt... Income taxes do not pay for roads... police... army.. Income taxes as they are set up are unconstitutional and will be abolished just as soon as we re institute the gold standard and get rid of the central banks... This mentality that we just need to pay our own way and support blindly the absolute criminal wishes of our government is as far from conservatism as Bush/Clinton/Obama/Bush Sr... In this nation we have tried two ways.. We have tried small unobtrusive government by way of its infancy, and we are now trying a monstrously sized government. We can easily see that we now have no liberty where we used to with the former. Pretty easy to figure out really.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Everyday we see some new hyped up danger that only more government can save us from.. right now its terrorism and swine flu... Is there ever really an answer given?... Or are we just taxed more? Oh and global friggen warming... Good god if there isn't a dumber damn cause than that one. Oh and rushing to save the friggen planet is even more government.. this time a global one with even more taxes to help us... For **** s sake can we please just have the end of the world now?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Coincidence that swine flu pops up and is hyped like an incoming comet just as lord ****ing Obama touts his new healthcare? One would have to not just be brain dead... no no.. one would have to be the spawn of the longest de-evolving most inbred forkless line of Boston Terrier this little glob of iron has ever seen to believe it merely coincidence.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I only want to pay taxes for the common defense and some social programs but I am not a liberal you are but only wouldnt admit it - i dont want big govt -
big govt kills production and freedom and I want an america that haS liberty and indivudaul responsibility - I want the values this land was founded on not some social crap europe is even getting rid off--
We all can have utopia but we have to work for it and create it vs expecting big govt to take care of us at the espense of our freedom and ultimately collapse --I want al lthe liberals to pay for big govt and no conservatives- let the liberals pay for what they so adamtly want -I dont want so i should not pay =
I want america to be free and better for my kids and yes, those that dont work dont eat -= some social programs but not the OBAMA nation of big govt co=ntrol and no individaul freedom-
Why is Obama so intense for healthcare and not for jobs as no. 1 goal? why cant he see the economics of his trillions deficit? Guess he only know how to community organize to take from those that work and give to those that dont ???
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
but only wouldnt admit it - i dont want big govt
LOL why wouldn't i? i could care less if somebody calls me a liberal or conserviatve. the liberals sure think i'm a barbarian when i talk about my immigration attitudes, or my gun collection
i want an honest govt. i'm just not willing to overlook what the crooks do because they are in one party or another,and i don't pretend that people do "wrong" cuz they are in one party or another...
as for Obama and big govt control?
Homeland security was the largest growth of govt ever and everybody BEGGED for it (but me)...
as a matter of fact? any time i spoke up about not agreeing with the govt back when the GOP was running everything? people told me i was unpatriotic, so pardon me if i am waiting for Obama to screw up to critisize him for something he's actually done wrong....
as to health care? i don't support anything free.
i think if you had your freemarket wish in health care? the doctors would have half of everything you make for your whole life cuz healthcare is PRICELESS.
there's no competition in health care. it's illegal to treat yourself or "practice medicine" without a license.. think about it...you cannot even go buy drugs without a prescription.
there's only so many doctors today because the AMA and the medical schools dictate how many there will be and who they will be.
there's absolutely NOTHING free market about how health care is delivered today. .
as for health care costs being dictated by lifestyle? that's a laugh. did you have your baby in your own bedroom? i doubt it. did you ask your doctor how much they'll cahrge at your first OB visit? i doubt you asked at all, cuz your employer paid for your insurance and the insurance paid the medical bills...
that's how we lost control of medical costs. no menus.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Health is chosen by lifestyle sometimes individual and other time cultural -
Smokin, obesity , alcohol, etc. increase health risks - How babies delivered is cultural so in usa mostly in hospital but dont have to be- health is priceless but not doctors = they provide a service as all services and value is to the person - I dont depend on doctors for health- i depend on my health choices and use doctors as a resourse and internet also and my lifestyle - doctors mis-daignose and many are greedy - when pharmaceutical firms pay doctors than their integrity is compromised-
In my life experience, doctors have mis-diagnose and sometime i used my gut to tell me what is right - example autism?? Doctors are responsible for the autism in this country because it is the immunizations but most hide -
My point is they are a resource but ultimately I take care of my health by my lifestyle and use resources -
How many can do without internet? or music? or educATION? or banks? or farmers? it is offensive to suggest doctors are priceless - they are not - health is preiceless and all services have a value -
Doctors provide a service but health is up to me!
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Coincidence that swine flu pops up and is hyped like an incoming comet just as lord ****ing Obama touts his new healthcare? One would have to not just be brain dead... no no.. one would have to be the spawn of the longest de-evolving most inbred forkless line of Boston Terrier this little glob of iron has ever seen to believe it merely coincidence.
If the government solution to the swine flu epidemic is an example of how well healthcare will be run by the government, get ready for disaster. Where are the vaccines? It's not like this has just come upon us.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Coincidence that swine flu pops up and is hyped like an incoming comet just as lord ****ing Obama touts his new healthcare? One would have to not just be brain dead... no no.. one would have to be the spawn of the longest de-evolving most inbred forkless line of Boston Terrier this little glob of iron has ever seen to believe it merely coincidence.
If the government solution to the swine flu epidemic is an example of how well healthcare will be run by the government, get ready for disaster. Where are the vaccines? It's not like this has just come upon us.
what are you going on about? who the hell do you think makes the vaccines?
do you think they are made in a US Govt factory?
are you forgetting the small pox vaccine "scare" after 9-11?
it's got absolutely nothing to do with Oabma politics.
this is big Pharma at its best. no more no less.
if the Govt doesn't do it's job "protecting' the general public? the general public will complain that they didn't do enough.
Donald Rumsfeld has made a killing out of bird flu. The US Defence Secretary has made more than $5m (£2.9m) in capital gains from selling shares in the biotechnology firm that discovered and developed Tamiflu, the drug being bought in massive amounts by Governments to treat a possible human pandemic of the disease.
Rumsfeld used to be on the board of Gilead Sciences, the company that makes the drug.
this all about Corporations. The Govt is simply their tool.
do flu vaccines work? maybe. does sterile water injection work in place of flu vaccines? maybe. it may even work better. sound crazy? well guess what? in scientific studies, people who get a sterile water injection do better than people who don't get anything. go figure.
do you want the health care program we have today? THIS IS IT- wake up and smell the coffee..
there's no scare tactic being used today that wasn't used last year or last decade and before...
vaccines in general are the biggest single reason that human life spans have increased over the last 200 years.
do we need good vaccines? yes. the only way we'll get them is by experimenting on everybody. If you think thats any different from any other treatment your insurance co pays for? you are MISTAKEN!
they are all experimental even after they've been on the market for five years? they are still being studied for long-term effects.
then there's all the people who complain because their insurance WON'T pay for a treatment cuz it's experimental.. sheesh.
just wait another ten to fifteen years til the brain tumors from cell phones become an epidemic. the evidence was gathered that this would PROBABLY happen in the 90's at a major US university - it was buried by the cell phone co's and the govt allowed it... the brain surgeons cannot wait!
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Coincidence that swine flu pops up and is hyped like an incoming comet just as lord ****ing Obama touts his new healthcare? One would have to not just be brain dead... no no.. one would have to be the spawn of the longest de-evolving most inbred forkless line of Boston Terrier this little glob of iron has ever seen to believe it merely coincidence.
If the government solution to the swine flu epidemic is an example of how well healthcare will be run by the government, get ready for disaster. Where are the vaccines? It's not like this has just come upon us.
what are you going on about? who the hell do you think makes the vaccines?
do you think they are made in a US Govt factory?
are you forgetting the small pox vaccine "scare" after 9-11?
it's got absolutely nothing to do with Oabma politics.
this is big Pharma at its best. no more no less.
if the Govt doesn't do it's job "protecting' the general public? the general public will complain that they didn't do enough.
Donald Rumsfeld has made a killing out of bird flu. The US Defence Secretary has made more than $5m (£2.9m) in capital gains from selling shares in the biotechnology firm that discovered and developed Tamiflu, the drug being bought in massive amounts by Governments to treat a possible human pandemic of the disease.
Rumsfeld used to be on the board of Gilead Sciences, the company that makes the drug.
this all about Corporations. The Govt is simply their tool.
do flu vaccines work? maybe. does sterile water injection work in place of flu vaccines? maybe. it may even work better. sound crazy? well guess what? in scientific studies, people who get a sterile water injection do better than people who don't get anything. go figure.
do you want the health care program we have today? THIS IS IT- wake up and smell the coffee..
there's no scare tactic being used today that wasn't used last year or last decade and before...
vaccines in general are the biggest single reason that human life spans have increased over the last 200 years.
do we need good vaccines? yes. the only way we'll get them is by experimenting on everybody. If you think thats any different from any other treatment your insurance co pays for? you are MISTAKEN!
they are all experimental even after they've been on the market for five years? they are still being studied for long-term effects.
then there's all the people who complain because their insurance WON'T pay for a treatment cuz it's experimental.. sheesh.
just wait another ten to fifteen years til the brain tumors from cell phones become an epidemic. the evidence was gathered that this would PROBABLY happen in the 90's at a major US university - it was buried by the cell phone co's and the govt allowed it... the brain surgeons cannot wait!
So things are gonna be different when the government takes over health care?
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: So things are gonna be different when the government takes over health care? [/QB]
are you kidding? i thought that was what everybody was afraid of? i thought everybody likes what they have?
from what i can tell? they've screwed up the health care reform beyond all recognition.. what's the surprise in that?
all i've been saying all along is that people complain that we (the US) are not competitive...
face it, health care costs are major portion of that problem, and it's getting worse at triple the rate of inflation every year.
we cannot compete against the Chinese labor costs because in China? they do not even have a health care plan.
we are constantly reminded that we are in a "global economy" and we have to accept the the results of that...
well, a Govt health care plan is the only thing that can compete. that's already been proven.
you might notice that i'm not argung with TM about who really is in charge of their health right?
we need good health care to be productive.
as far as i'm concerned? there should be huge tax on sugar drinks just like there is on smokes and booze... it's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative either...
take out a soda and see how many carbs are in it:
a sprite 16 OZ has 54 grams of sugar (carbs)
a single teaspoon of sugar is about 4 grams so that soda has about 12 1/2 teaspoons of sugar in it...
and we wonder why diabetes is an epidemic in this country?
the US soda consumption is about 600 per person per year...
and i only drink about 100, so somebody out there is drinking 500 extra
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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This is why so many are opposed... If it was such a great thing and the solution to all of our problems.. Then they would let us read it.. Or atleast let the people voting on it read it...
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
that article says it was posted online this morning?
A video posted on YouTube by Minority Whip Eric Cantor's office depicted a Republican staffer attempting to attend the press conference and being turned away by a police officer.
• YouTube video: People being turned away from the health-care bill ceremony.
"Our event had more than 250 people present, primarily supporters, but also some protesters," said Doug Thornell, a spokesman for Rep. Chris Van Hollen, Maryland Democrat and head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. "Our blended bill was posted online this morning. In contrast, the Republican event today was open only to credentialed media and GOP staffers. More importantly, it's been 134 days and they still haven't shown the American people their bill or pledged to post it online for 72 hours like we have."
does seem strange they closed the ceremony tho...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
hmmmmm..... Firms would be banned from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and limited in their ability to charge higher premiums on the basis of age.
They would be required to spend 85 percent of their income from premiums on coverage, effectively limiting their ability to advertise or pay bonuses. Additionally, the industry would be stripped of immunity from antitrust regulations covering price fixing, bid rigging and market allocation. And in a late addition to the bill, 30-year-old restrictions on the Federal Trade Commission's ability to look into the insurance industry would be erased.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Democrats handpick audience for reform bill
Dont forget that one! CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN! Are people still weeping over Obama? This is not what America is all about and this isnt what was promised to get elected! What a messed up sick joke!
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Democrats handpick audience for reform bill
Dont forget that one! CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN! Are people still weeping over Obama? This is not what America is all about and this isnt what was promised to get elected! What a messed up sick joke!
this is exactly what we are about!!!...changing whaT is wrong and experimenting with the new!!...come on cow...you are a young man..why are you so hung up on the old??/...you need to expand your mind!!
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Democrats handpick audience for reform bill
Dont forget that one! CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN! Are people still weeping over Obama? This is not what America is all about and this isnt what was promised to get elected! What a messed up sick joke!
this is exactly what we are about!!!...changing whaT is wrong and experimenting with the new!!...come on cow...you are a young man..why are you so hung up on the old??/...you need to expand your mind!!
I dont know what to say to you. You dont see this massive expansion of government as any big deal.
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Healthcare for all 96% of Americans costing $800 Billion over 10 years? WE CAN"T AFFORD IT
$850 Billion dollar Economic Stability Act of 2008 passed by the Bush administration? OBAMA IS DESTROYING OUR ECONOMY
$787 Billion dollar American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 passed by the Obama administration that by the latest estimates has saved or created over 600,000 jobs, cut taxes for many Americans, gave America it's first quarter of GDP growth in over a year, and is only half spent? OBAMA IS TRYING TO SOCIALIZE AMERICA
$3-5 Trillion dollar war in Iraq (paid for with a Chinese credit card): a nation 3,000 miles away that had no hidden weapons of mass destruction and no involvement with the tragedy of 9-11? WE MUST DEFEND OURSELVES FROM TERRORISTS
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I am also in favor of a tax on soda. They ran a commercial up where I am with a woman unloading groceries outraged about this proposed tax and talking about how hard it is to keep a family fed.
I laughed for a good minute the first time I saw it at the ridiculousness of the cola industry trying to pass off soda as a legitimate foodstuff with nutritional value.
Almost as bad as the one with the police lineup of High-fructose Corn Syrup, Sugar, and Honey with the cop all angry that the 'getting fat' victim dragged them all in without any evidence!
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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i happen to like cream soda made with real vanilla an dreal sugar not corn syrup, i wouldn't mind paying an extra nickel for it, as long as the money was not being wasted.
isn't that the real issue here?
why are health care costs so high? nobody asks "how much" till after the service is rendered...
and with employers paying for most insurance anyway? nobody was asking about that either...
i don't like the govt being involved in my personal life, theres alot of places i think they have already overstepped. but health care cost control is not one of them....
it is an economic issue pure and simple...
i recently got a letter from y insurance provider asking me to use generic drugs. i already pay a smaller co=pay by doing that, and i tell my doctor i want generic drugs if they are available so i wont pay a 4X co-pay or more...
do you think they advertise generics on TV? nope.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I put in an hour or so reading the first hundred pages of the bill this morning... So far I haven't seen anything truly objectionable. Most of what I've read so far was pretty basic common sense and did not seem to butcher the constitution... Pretty much if you want to run a health care insurance company you'll have to obey these rules sort of thing. I do however know I just haven't gotten to the juicy stuff yet... 1990 or so pages means there has to be loads of worthless crap in there.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Aint that the truth...I recently lost my dental and optical benefits as part of the GM bk thingy...
Before that I never questioned the costs unless it was part of a co-pay....I DO NOW!
On my last visit to the dentist that I was required to use through my insurer, they attempted to setup my next appointment. I quickly explained to them that my benefits had been cut and that I would be "shopping around" for a dentist. They offered me a new "plan" that included a 25% discount on all dental work. I immediately asked for a price list of all of the services they offered so I could compare their prices to other dentists, and to see what 25% off of what was...you should have seen the perplexed look on her face when I asked for their price list...
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
why are health care costs so high? nobody asks "how much" till after the service is rendered...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: let's just call it 2000 pp: gee, only 20 hours' reading at that rate.
not like it's a flowing novel that captivates... I am continually forcing myself to breathe which takes some effort... Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I put in an hour or so reading the first hundred pages of the bill this morning... So far I haven't seen anything truly objectionable. Most of what I've read so far was pretty basic common sense and did not seem to butcher the constitution... Pretty much if you want to run a health care insurance company you'll have to obey these rules sort of thing. I do however know I just haven't gotten to the juicy stuff yet... 1990 or so pages means there has to be loads of worthless crap in there.
what constitutional issues did you expect in a health care bill?
loss of choice on which meds you can take? they already took that..
the stuff we've been told to "fear" is taxes...
and or unabated "borrow and spend"... we already have that too...
if they pass a set of laws that are bogus we'll protest legally.
most of the fearmongering has been done by the insurance co's anyway..
the things to be really concerned about are things like losing coverage if you don't do what the doctors say you have to do... that would be really bad.
loss of privacy is major concern.
here's another major concern:
Pregnancy a Key Risk Factor for H1N1 Flu How a Healthy 27-Year-Old Lost Her Unborn Child - and Nearly Her Own Life - in a Three-Month Battle with the Virus
To understand how dangerous the H1N1 virus can be for pregnant women, consider the case of 27-year-old Aubrey Opdyke, who is just beginning her slow recovery from a near death experience.
I almost lost my life because of this flu," she said. "I never thought it would happen to me."
This past July, the South Florida mother caught what she thought was a cold. It became life threatening within days, sending her to the intensive care unit at Wellington Regional Medical Center.
Clinging to life for more than three months, she spent five weeks in a drug-induced coma, suffering collapsed lungs, kidney failure and seizures.
An occasional smoker, she had no underlying health conditions. Her biggest risk factor for H1N1? She was six months pregnant when she got sick.
Pregnancy suppresses the immune system and as the baby grows, there is less room for the lungs to expand, making breathing more difficult.
"I was not sure every day if she would be there the next morning or not," said Michele Beck-Torres, Aubrey's obstetrician-gynecologist. "That's how bad her lungs were; that's how bad this virus hit her."
At least 100 pregnant women have been admitted to intensive care units across the country with complications of H1N1; 28 have died. That is why pregnant women are considered a priority group to receive the H1N1 vaccine.
Just two weeks into Aubrey's fight with the virus, her husband Bryan had to make a life and death decision; doctors could save either his wife or their unborn baby.
"It was really hard, it was hard to do," he said.
Their baby daughter was delivered by emergency c-section; weighing just 2 pounds, 3 ounces. She survived only seven minutes.
posted
Like I said... I'm 0.050251256281407% into it.. I'm fully expecting to see worse. As I remember it I'm the one who warns of massacres to the constitution and common folk. You're supposed to be the one who adores one further encroachment to serve societal evolution.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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free money for every child managed for only slight fee by the brilliant traders at Goldman Sachs! we're all going to get an unlimited line of credit and we'll never have to pay it back, and the Chinese are going to work for even less pay and the dollar is going to be ten times as strong as it is now driving the price of gasoline back down to 25 cents/gallon just like it was when the forefathers beat the Nazi's but we won't even need gasoline anymore cuz we'll all have our own personal wind turbine that generates more green energy than a nuclear reactor in even the slightest breeze.....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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