posted
Glass, caters is the key word, I agree. I used it specifically because there is NO unbiased news outlet anymore. It's all commentary. Look at Mathews and Olberman on MSNBC, look at O'Reily and Beck on Fox, look at any of the commentary programs on any network.
Once news became not what happened, but what happened and why it hurts\helps you, we lost something important.
Raybond...there are more news pages than just ThinkProgress.Org....remember that....
Tex...I will check it out once I get home. Video restrictions here.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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Glass, caters is the key word, I agree. I used it specifically because there is NO unbiased news outlet anymore. It's all commentary. Look at Mathews and Olberman on MSNBC, look at O'Reily and Beck on Fox, look at any of the commentary programs on any network.
dude, this what i've been trying to tell you, you made a mistake right off when you called them news providers.
none of those people are journalists, they are entertainers.
Beck? i listened to the first part of his show while i was working on one of my furnaces today.
i'm getting ready for the weather to cool down.
Beck is nothing but an "indoctrinator", his work leaves me almost speechless, his line of propaganda is insidious because he sets there and claims he's the only person not "indoctrinating".
O'reilly? he's not so bad, he at least presents his OPINIONS as opinions. he even became skeptical of Bush long before the others did. i was actually surprised when he did it.
Hannity? the guy is just not righ tin his head
Matthews is about the same as O'reilly, he has an open position and he makes no claims to being unbiased
Olberman? he's a former sportscaster and he also presents his show as entertainment.
are you willing to accept that we will see health care become out of the cost reach of the average American in our lifetime (just as housing almost did,) because a few media outlets can make decent living off of confusing people so badly that it paralyses the Govt?
i'm serious. i don't care to have single payer health care, the only reason i've ever chimed in on this is because i can't stand to see all the lies they keep spreading. of course there's going to be more rationing if we don't fix this now. we cannot afford to keep going the way we are going.
again? i ask you if (three years ago)GW Bush were to be giving a speech to the nations school kids urging the kids to stay in school because they will make more money and it will help the nation in the long run, would you be posting this thread?
so what if they have a reading/writing assignment after...
this is not indoctrination
i recall people responding favorably to Bush telling them it was their patriotic duty to go shopping, and he and the congress GAVE them free money to do it...
few complained. a few here gave me a hard time for complaining about it, and i did.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Glass, caters is the key word, I agree. I used it specifically because there is NO unbiased news outlet anymore. It's all commentary. Look at Mathews and Olberman on MSNBC, look at O'Reily and Beck on Fox, look at any of the commentary programs on any network.
dude, this what i've been trying to tell you, you made a mistake right off when you called them news providers.
none of those people are journalists, they are entertainers.
Beck? i listened to the first part of his show while i was working on one of my furnaces today.
i'm getting ready for the weather to cool down.
Beck is nothing but an "indoctrinator", his work leaves me almost speechless, his line of propaganda is insidious because he sets there and claims he's the only person not "indoctrinating".
O'reilly? he's not so bad, he at least presents his OPINIONS as opinions. he even became skeptical of Bush long before the others did. i was actually surprised when he did it.
Hannity? the guy is just not righ tin his head
Matthews is about the same as O'reilly, he has an open position and he makes no claims to being unbiased
Olberman? he's a former sportscaster and he also presents his show as entertainment.
are you willing to accept that we will see health care become out of the cost reach of the average American in our lifetime (just as housing almost did,) because a few media outlets can make decent living off of confusing people so badly that it paralyses the Govt?
i'm serious. i don't care to have single payer health care, the only reason i've ever chimed in on this is because i can't stand to see all the lies they keep spreading. of course there's going to be more rationing if we don't fix this now. we cannot afford to keep going the way we are going.
again? i ask you if (three years ago)GW Bush were to be giving a speech to the nations school kids urging the kids to stay in school because they will make more money and it will help the nation in the long run, would you be posting this thread?
so what if they have a reading/writing assignment after...
this is not indoctrination
i recall people responding favorably to Bush telling them it was their patriotic duty to go shopping, and he and the congress GAVE them free money to do it...
few complained. a few here gave me a hard time for complaining about it, and i did.
well posted...
and, I gotta tell ya, once again I'm kinda slow on this stuff. For instance, I don't even unnerstan the slang for "single payer."
What I *do* get is this: certain things should be exempt from the overhead of Wall Street bonuses-- running water in a city; electricity/gas; hospital care; street repair; fire departments; police (be great if police were Peace Officers); and free compost/mulch from the city agency best available to deliver.
PS: appears to me that SF is avoiding my invitations to a healthy debate.
posted
beck and hannity I might as well get my 2 cents in.
neither one of them could get laid even with a vett and ten grand in there pocket
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:PS: appears to me that SF is avoiding my invitations to a healthy debate.
ROFLMAO
Patience my southern friend, our debate took a back seat to Dora the Explorer dominoes with my kids last night. Sorry, it's that priorities thing.
Watched the video this morning before work (35 minutes!) and printed the transcript to re-read it at work. What part did you want to discuss?
I personally feel that Potter is being a little disingenuous about how he all of a sudden 'saw the light,' but I'll leave that alone for now.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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If you are talking about health care reform nothing is needed in this country more since we have a complete failure of the private sector to insure and get coverage to the country as a matter of fact just the oppsite the percent of the people they cover is shrinking. The percent of every dollar they take in that goes to claims is shrinking the percent of claims they approve is shrinking.
We are not going to get rid of the private sector health care and most people don't want to including me I think they need a little bit of good old fashion compettion to keep them honest. And from a moral standpoint we need to get health care to the millions that need it and most of them will pay what they can for it and the country will be better off for it.
Most things that were right for people had to be fought for in the streets at the coast of blood from the beginning of this country. And that includes the Bill of Rights at the threat of counter revolution,was granted
There was a time if you were for a forty hour work week and child labor you were labled a commie
If you were for social security and disability work mans comp you were labled a commie.
If you fought for your country and were promissed 300 dollars and asked for it when it did not come your answer was hot lead.
So when fighting for anything that is moral and just takes time and blood. the answer is to go out in the street and show how the nation feels.Maybe not now but the time is shortly coming from a historical point of view we will be ready to move when the population does.A system that is built on the profit motive that is greedy and driven to give less care to control more all on the fear of sickness is immoral and won't last for ever.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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Prepared Remarks of President Barack Obama Back to School Event
Arlington, Virginia September 8, 2009
The President: Hello everyone – how’s everybody doing today? I’m here with students at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. And we’ve got students tuning in from all across America, kindergarten through twelfth grade. I’m glad you all could join us today. I know that for many of you, today is the first day of school. And for those of you in kindergarten, or starting middle or high school, it’s your first day in a new school, so it’s understandable if you’re a little nervous. I imagine there are some seniors out there who are feeling pretty good right now, with just one more year to go. And no matter what grade you’re in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could’ve stayed in bed just a little longer this morning. I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn’t have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday – at 4:30 in the morning. Now I wasn’t too happy about getting up that early. A lot of times, I’d fall asleep right there at the kitchen table. But whenever I’d complain, my mother would just give me one of those looks and say, "This is no picnic for me either, buster." So I know some of you are still adjusting to being back at school. But I’m here today because I have something important to discuss with you. I’m here because I want to talk with you about your education and what’s expected of all of you in this new school year. Now I’ve given a lot of speeches about education. And I’ve talked a lot about responsibility. I’ve talked about your teachers’ responsibility for inspiring you, and pushing you to learn. I’ve talked about your parents’ responsibility for making sure you stay on track, and get your homework done, and don’t spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that Xbox. I’ve talked a lot about your government’s responsibility for setting high standards, supporting teachers and principals, and turning around schools that aren’t working where students aren’t getting the opportunities they deserve. But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world – and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed. And that’s what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself. Every single one of you has something you’re good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That’s the opportunity an education can provide. Maybe you could be a good writer – maybe even good enough to write a book or articles in a newspaper – but you might not know it until you write a paper for your English class. Maybe you could be an innovator or an inventor – maybe even good enough to come up with the next iPhone or a new medicine or vaccine – but you might not know it until you do a project for your science class. Maybe you could be a mayor or a Senator or a Supreme Court Justice, but you might not know that until you join student government or the debate team. And no matter what you want to do with your life – I guarantee that you’ll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You’re going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can’t drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You’ve got to work for it and train for it and learn for it. And this isn’t just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country. What you’re learning in school today will determine whether we as a nation can meet our greatest challenges in the future. You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You’ll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy. We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don’t do that – if you quit on school – you’re not just quitting on yourself, you’re quitting on your country. Now I know it’s not always easy to do well in school. I know a lot of you have challenges in your lives right now that can make it hard to focus on your schoolwork. I get it. I know what that’s like. My father left my family when I was two years old, and I was raised by a single mother who struggled at times to pay the bills and wasn’t always able to give us things the other kids had. There were times when I missed having a father in my life. There were times when I was lonely and felt like I didn’t fit in. So I wasn’t always as focused as I should have been. I did some things I’m not proud of, and got in more trouble than I should have. And my life could have easily taken a turn for the worse. But I was fortunate. I got a lot of second chances and had the opportunity to go to college, and law school, and follow my dreams. My wife, our First Lady Michelle Obama, has a similar story. Neither of her parents had gone to college, and they didn’t have much. But they worked hard, and she worked hard, so that she could go to the best schools in this country. Some of you might not have those advantages. Maybe you don’t have adults in your life who give you the support that you need. Maybe someone in your family has lost their job, and there’s not enough money to go around. Maybe you live in a neighborhood where you don’t feel safe, or have friends who are pressuring you to do things you know aren’t right. But at the end of the day, the circumstances of your life – what you look like, where you come from, how much money you have, what you’ve got going on at home – that’s no excuse for neglecting your homework or having a bad attitude. That’s no excuse for talking back to your teacher, or cutting class, or dropping out of school. That’s no excuse for not trying. Where you are right now doesn’t have to determine where you’ll end up. No one’s written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future. That’s what young people like you are doing every day, all across America. Young people like Jazmin Perez, from Roma, Texas. Jazmin didn’t speak English when she first started school. Hardly anyone in her hometown went to college, and neither of her parents had gone either. But she worked hard, earned good grades, got a scholarship to Brown University, and is now in graduate school, studying public health, on her way to being Dr. Jazmin Perez. I’m thinking about Andoni Schultz, from Los Altos, California, who’s fought brain cancer since he was three. He’s endured all sorts of treatments and surgeries, one of which affected his memory, so it took him much longer – hundreds of extra hours – to do his schoolwork. But he never fell behind, and he’s headed to college this fall. And then there’s Shantell Steve, from my hometown of Chicago, Illinois. Even when bouncing from foster home to foster home in the toughest neighborhoods, she managed to get a job at a local health center; start a program to keep young people out of gangs; and she’s on track to graduate high school with honors and go on to college. Jazmin, Andoni and Shantell aren’t any different from any of you. They faced challenges in their lives just like you do. But they refused to give up. They chose to take responsibility for their education and set goals for themselves. And I expect all of you to do the same. That’s why today, I’m calling on each of you to set your own goals for your education – and to do everything you can to meet them. Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class, or spending time each day reading a book. Maybe you’ll decide to get involved in an extracurricular activity, or volunteer in your community. Maybe you’ll decide to stand up for kids who are being teased or bullied because of who they are or how they look, because you believe, like I do, that all kids deserve a safe environment to study and learn. Maybe you’ll decide to take better care of yourself so you can be more ready to learn. And along those lines, I hope you’ll all wash your hands a lot, and stay home from school when you don’t feel well, so we can keep people from getting the flu this fall and winter. Whatever you resolve to do, I want you to commit to it. I want you to really work at it. I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you’re not going to be any of those things. But the truth is, being successful is hard. You won’t love every subject you study. You won’t click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won’t necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try. That’s OK. Some of the most successful people in the world are the ones who’ve had the most failures. JK Rowling’s first Harry Potter book was rejected twelve times before it was finally published. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team, and he lost hundreds of games and missed thousands of shots during his career. But he once said, "I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." These people succeeded because they understand that you can’t let your failures define you – you have to let them teach you. You have to let them show you what to do differently next time. If you get in trouble, that doesn’t mean you’re a troublemaker, it means you need to try harder to behave. If you get a bad grade, that doesn’t mean you’re stupid, it just means you need to spend more time studying. No one’s born being good at things, you become good at things through hard work. You’re not a varsity athlete the first time you play a new sport. You don’t hit every note the first time you sing a song. You’ve got to practice. It’s the same with your schoolwork. You might have to do a math problem a few times before you get it right, or read something a few times before you understand it, or do a few drafts of a paper before it’s good enough to hand in. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask for help when you need it. I do that every day. Asking for help isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of strength. It shows you have the courage to admit when you don’t know something, and to learn something new. So find an adult you trust – a parent, grandparent or teacher; a coach or counselor – and ask them to help you stay on track to meet your goals. And even when you’re struggling, even when you’re discouraged, and you feel like other people have given up on you – don’t ever give up on yourself. Because when you give up on yourself, you give up on your country. The story of America isn’t about people who quit when things got tough. It’s about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best. It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation. Students who sat where you sit 75 years ago who overcame a Depression and won a world war; who fought for civil rights and put a man on the moon. Students who sat where you sit 20 years ago who founded Google, Twitter and Facebook and changed the way we communicate with each other. So today, I want to ask you, what’s your contribution going to be? What problems are you going to solve? What discoveries will you make? What will a president who comes here in twenty or fifty or one hundred years say about what all of you did for this country? Your families, your teachers, and I are doing everything we can to make sure you have the education you need to answer these questions. I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you’ve got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don’t let us down – don’t let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Other than claiming it was the federal government's job to fix local schools I really don't see what all the hubub is about?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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welcome to the propaganda machine called "conservative talk radio". Glen Beck in particualr has been going crazy with his fearmongering.
it's not about "facts" anymore it's about "possibilities"...
i've posted this question several times now without response:
again? i ask you if (three years ago)GW Bush were to be giving a speech to the nations school kids urging the kids to stay in school because they will make more money and it will help the nation in the long run, would you be posting this thread?
in fact George the First did give this same basic speech, and i think every president should every year.
Beck is on right now rerunning a show called the death of small business, and how the govt is destroying small businesses.
of course? he refuses to address the fact that American workers cannot compete with the conversion rate of the Chinese Yuan, or that one of his guests, the CEO of Overstock, was the victim of naked short selling while the govt just looked the other way and allowed the co. and shareholders to be robbed blind.
no, facts have become too inconvenient, and God forbid that the President should have any 1st ammendment rights since he's not a Libertarian...
half the people on his show are complaining that the govt helps big business and not small business, well duh, that's been pretty obvious for years now, that the govt is owned by big business.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn." Again, as in most speeches it is about the I -Obama - it isnt about him - and that is the key problem is his approach to all issues - it is not about him -
Is the above a joke? Obama is working hard to send my kids to school, etc... BS --He hasnt done squat to help me- we the parents are working HARD to make our children's education and dreams be a reality - actually we go private so Obama and govt are making it harder for me-
And, indoctrinating kids to a secular values vs values parents choose -- Christian or Jewish , etc...
Actually, some of the speech offended me cause it was not geared to our family values - My kids if they were to see the message would not understand why the gist is to stay in school, like it is a problem - my kids love to learn, etc... Yes, many kids in USA have those issues but it is because the parents who dont parent the children. And, it these cases, these parents want GOVT to parent the children, hence indoctrinate.
I do not want Obama to teach or give the speech of education' values to my children cause he is not their parent. I take offense for the prez to think his role should have any influence on my kids. The parents are responsible for their kids. He is a president and should be the leader taking on national security issues- being a servant hence represent americans. It is not about him but america. Put you time in leading america back to work and defending this land ---
Now, we do have FREE speech so he can say all he wants but he should not use the pulpit of presidncy to espouse his opinions ---and try to influenc kids - IT is not HIS job -
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: The controversy over President Obama's speech to the nation's schoolchildren will likely be over shortly after Obama speaks today at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. But when President George H.W. Bush delivered a similar speech on October 1, 1991, from Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington DC, the controversy was just beginning. Democrats, then the majority party in Congress, not only denounced Bush's speech -- they also ordered the General Accounting Office to investigate its production and later summoned top Bush administration officials to Capitol Hill for an extensive hearing on the issue.
Unlike the Obama speech, in 1991 most of the controversy came after, not before, the president's school appearance. The day after Bush spoke, the Washington Post published a front-page story suggesting the speech was carefully staged for the president's political benefit. "The White House turned a Northwest Washington junior high classroom into a television studio and its students into props," the Post reported.
With the Post article in hand, Democrats pounced. "The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students," said Richard Gephardt, then the House Majority Leader. "And the president should be doing more about education than saying, 'Lights, camera, action.'"
Democrats did not stop with words. Rep. William Ford, then chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee, ordered the General Accounting Office to investigate the cost and legality of Bush's appearance. On October 17, 1991, Ford summoned then-Education Secretary Lamar Alexander and other top Bush administration officials to testify at a hearing devoted to the speech. "The hearing this morning is to really examine the expenditure of $26,750 of the Department of Education funds to produce and televise an appearance by President Bush at Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington, DC," Ford began. "As the chairman of the committee charged with the authorization and implementation of education programs, I am very much interested in the justification, rationale for giving the White House scarce education funds to produce a media event."
Unfortunately for Ford, the General Accounting Office concluded that the Bush administration had not acted improperly. "The speech itself and the use of the department's funds to support it, including the cost of the production contract, appear to be legal," the GAO wrote in a letter to Chairman Ford. "The speech also does not appear to have violated the restrictions on the use of appropriations for publicity and propaganda."
That didn't stop Democratic allies from taking their own shots at Bush. The National Education Association denounced the speech, saying it "cannot endorse a president who spends $26,000 of taxpayers' money on a staged media event at Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington, D.C. -- while cutting school lunch funds for our neediest youngsters."
Lost in all the denouncing and investigating was the fact that Bush's speech itself, like Obama's today, was entirely unremarkable. "Block out the kids who think it's not cool to be smart," the president told students. "If someone goofs off today, are they cool? Are they still cool years from now, when they're stuck in a dead end job. Don't let peer pressure stand between you and your dreams.
Here's your answer, Glass.
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I give Obama a B-Minus on the speech. He gets points for not targeting specific issues as being priorities (part of my concern about the speech before) but he loses points for not forseeing the sh!tstorm that would arise from his adressing the kids in the first place (see Relentless' link for previous attempt to talk to kids without parental approval).
The 'inartful' wording of the DoE letter that probably set many people off didn't help, but in a politically polarized country like ours, you just can't go and talk to minors without parents getting jumpy if they don't support you. (shrug)
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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I am surprised you let yourself watch considering your fear that his insidious subliminal messages are capable of inserting liberal attitudes. Can I ask, have you had any homosexual urges since you watched the address? Just curious.
This '****storm' that you talk about is aptly named. But the **** belongs square in the faces of those who kicked up the storm. I watched presidential addresses many times while I was growing. Even Reagan (gasp!)and I turned out just fine without my parents having to sign a wavier saying it was ok for me to watch the FREAKIN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
Just how deep is that hole you are shoving your kids heads into?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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Getting touchy on some of these things, aren't we Big?
Let me give you an example of 'fact based spin'...
Several months ago, I guess Sean Hannity got on tv with some guest and offered to be waterboarded for charity. (FACT)
A couple of nights later apparently, Keith Olberman offered to donate $1000 a second that Hannity was waterboarded. (FACT)
Now...two possible 'spins' can be used on this story and both are completely factually based...
1) Olberman is willing to donate generously to charity!
2) Olberman is willing to pay to watch people be tortured!
Do you see the difference? Both are completely accurate. Both are 'true'. Yet simply by stating one facet of the facts you completely change the perceived intent of Olberman.
The English language can be nuanced as to promote any of a myriad of ideas simply in how things are phrased. I have no problem with my children watching the President as long as I'm available for any questions they might have. That's why when its on prime time they can watch it with me and we can discuss it as a family and answer anything they will want to know.
I don't think anyone here will argue that it was the 'inartful' wording in the (original) DoE letter that set the stage for this. And whether you agree with him or not, asking small children to find ways to 'help the president' when their parents may not like\agree with his goals is asking for drama.
Unlike some...(cough) Demi and Ashton(cough)...I don't want my children to pledge to be servants to the President...no matter if it's an R or a D after his name.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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Do you see the difference? Both are completely accurate. Both are 'true'. Yet simply by stating one facet of the facts you completely change the perceived intent of Olberman.
yea but the real truth behind the story was that Hannity denied it was torture, and said it was no big deal. then he didn't live up to his own statements. just like the rest of the chumps on TV these days.
Hannity woulda been saying anything the questioner wanted him to say within ten minutes maybe less.
and that IMO is what is really wrong in/with America today.
you mentioned the Purity of the Constitution recently. is torture a part of the "purity"?
Hannity has no credibility, Beck has no credibility limbugger has no credibility yet they get paid fantastic sums of money to do, well, to do what exactly? talk chit?
their lack of credibility, while claiming to be leaders of a political "philosphy" destroys the credibility of the philosophy.
do not mistake my comment for defense of liberalism, i'm trying to fix "conservatism" here, and it will not be accomplished by lying to people.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I think SF has a fairly decent point here. In these times where our country is quite realistically being turned into a police state in a global hierarchy we need to do everything we can to keep our kid's brains focused on reality. We need to be careful of what they ingest mentally almost to a point of paranoia. While I didn't find a whole lot of flaw with Obama's speech, I did still find that the subliminal message was government owns you... That's something I would wish to buffer when and if mine wishes to watch a presidential address over sponge bob.
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quote:yea but the real truth behind the story was that Hannity denied it was torture, and said it was no big deal. then he didn't live up to his own statements. just like the rest of the chumps on TV these days.
All true, Glass. But not the point of the example.
Both statements are 100% true. But both are transmitting a different view of the events that would lead someone to believe either Olberman was generous or depraved. Both are supported by the 'facts'.
This is why politics is 10% position and 90% diction.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Not touchy just completely floored by the continuing and constant barrage of disrespect I am seeing.
You want to message control...that is fine with me. But teach your kids to have the respect to stop and listen when the leader of the free world is taking an hour out of his day to address them specifically. Your message control can start at the dinner table that night with "So...what did you do at school today?" P.S. What is wrong about your son or daughter thinking about how he can help the president of the United States? I'd like to know your specific objection to that thought. Before you answer I'd like you to tell me if there was a chance in hell that your son was gonna pledge to be a servant of Obamanation if he had watched that address in school (with the original DOE title even).
And yes before you use it as a rejoinder, I disrespected president Bush plenty while he was in office. But I still tuned in to listen to him speak and when I complained about him it was about REAL things that HAD happened. Not LIES and INNUENDOS and prognostications of doom based on one comment made a decade ago.
A lot of people sitting on the right side of the isle are on some serious hallucinogens right now. I keep waiting and keep waiting for someone other than McCain to tell em to turn down the dial a little but the only time it happens is when a republican gets so caught up in the fervor of rabid opposition that he calls the president a liar to his face during a speech aired on primetime nationalized tv. If that's the best the republican party has to offer than flush em all down the toilet and bring back the whigs or something.
As to your example?
Spin the facts every which way you want. The broth boils down to this. Olbermann wanted to see if Hannity would put his money where his mouth was after he made that statement. Seems he wouldn't. But you are still gonna be more inclined to believe what Hannity says over Olberman now aren't ya? More interested in hearing what you want to hear than in listening to a reputable source.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:But you are still gonna be more inclined to believe what Hannity says over Olberman now aren't ya? More interested in hearing what you want to hear than in listening to a reputable source.
Please for the love of all that's holy, tell me that you don't consider Olberman a 'reputable source' Big!!
As for Hannity, I don't watch him and he's not on the talk radio station here so I can't even tell you IF I agree with him. (shrug) Sorry.
My entire use of the two is to show that ANY speech made by ANYONE can be factually accurate and still be entirely biased. It's all in the words used.
Let's go back to the original wording in the DoE letter:
The teacher was to help the kids study previous presidents as well as Obama. Do you think that in no way shape or form, the study of Obama would NOT have included his goals\prioities? Be honest with yourself. Of course it would. Now, take that with the goals that the student was to write on how they could help the President...presumably with things the President wants done.
Now, we have 'educated' the kids (emphasis on KIDS) about what the President's goals are...we've 'instructed' them to choose goals to strive towards (that are in line with the President's priorites) and we'll be following up on how well they are accomplishing them.
If you think that this is all paranoia (which I presume you and other will) re-read the second edition of the DoE letter from the link I posted. Except for the 'help the President' part, all of the rest of this is still in it.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Olberman? Nah...lol I like most of the nation prefer Stewart, Colbert, and Leno. (sigh)
Truth be told I only know of the exchange because it was highlighted on CNN. CNN I watch a lot (comes with the job description).
OK so your point is that spin happens. Do you really think the President of the United States is gonna Swift Boat your kids? Or maybe you think the public education system saw it as an opportunity to liberalize yer kids? Which one are you more afraid of?
And do you really think you have a legitimate point here? Anything they are taught from Science to Math to Church to how to mow the lawn correctly is going to be imparted with the bias of the one who is talking. That is the way things work. No matter how any letter was formatted those who used it as an excuse to pressure a school into not airing the speech or exempting their kids from watching it just taught their children to fear the president and not to tolerate different viewpoints and ideas. How is that a good thing in any way, shape, or form?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
yeah and as the article says, if yu read the whole thing? the kids made up the songs themselves.. hardly a masterplan:
"Alteredbeat" told FOXNews.com that he reached out to Carney-Nunes, who insisted that the program had been filmed in June as part of a Father's Day tribute to President Obama. "The kids made up the songs on their own," she wrote, according to the YouTube user.
even here in MS where Obama was hardly given any chance from day one by adults? school kids liked him.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Well, hell--he's inherently "likeable." That's part of the problem. I "like" him: I'd much rather hang out with him, shoot some baskets, talk books...than I would like to have a beer or a jog with W or a quail hunt with Cheney or a target shoot with Blackwater mercs.
Even Glenn Beck told Katie he thinks Obama is better for the country than McCain would've been (based on Beck's reaction to Roosevelt).
BUT, what you get with "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" is, dare I say it?
A rookie.
The time was ripe for market reform. Now? It's slipping away, like "sands through the hourglass" almost as if we're watching a soap-opera trainwreck.
He should've gone after "the nexxus" as an expose from the bully pulpit, from THE BIG DOG's CHAIR--as though he had known some of this stuff as a Senator but didn't know what to do with that knowledge BUT *now that he's Prez* he's come to realize the incestuous, dirty-nasty connections that allow in one drawn-out, racing breath the commonality among GVRP, CMKX, et al; Enron, et al; why NASDAQ/NASD became NASDAQ-NYSE-FINRA; why oil spikes inversely to "supply-demand"...
and so on.
It was a rookie mistake to go after health care, hard and fast.
Market reform was a plum, waiting to not only be picked but to be dropped into his outreached hand.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: yeah and as the article says, if yu read the whole thing? the kids made up the songs themselves.. hardly a masterplan:
"Alteredbeat" told FOXNews.com that he reached out to Carney-Nunes, who insisted that the program had been filmed in June as part of a Father's Day tribute to President Obama. "The kids made up the songs on their own," she wrote, according to the YouTube user.
even here in MS where Obama was hardly given any chance from day one by adults? school kids liked him.
I did read that, Glass, and I don't believe a word of it. Sorry, but that excuse is worse than 'the Devil made me do it.'
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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