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SeekingFreedom
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Pump up the indoctrination...err...I mean education!

A suggested lesson plan that calls on school kids to write letters to themselves about what they can do to help President Obama is troubling some education experts, who say it establishes the president as a "superintendent in chief" and may indoctrinate children to support him politically.

Obama will deliver a national address directly to students on Tuesday, which will be the first day of classes for many children across the country. The address, to be broadcast live on the White House's Web site, was announced in a letter to school principals last week by Education Secretary Arne Duncan.

....

But in advance of the address, the Department of Education has offered educators "classroom activities" to coincide with Obama's message.

Students in grades pre-K-6, for example, are encouraged to "build background knowledge about the president of the United States by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama."

During the speech, "teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful."

Possible activities after the speech include writing "letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president." Teachers are encouraged to follow up on the students' progress in meeting that and other educational goals.

....

McCluskey also noted that the lesson plans for young students contain suggestions to write letters to themselves on how they can help the president, but that suggestion is not in the lesson plan for middle and high schoolers -- perhaps due to the likelihood of increased political ties at that age.



Teach the children to support the regime and you only have to wait one generation to be in power...where else have we seen this concept used...hmmm?

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glassman
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wow, that's friggin scary man.

indoctrination into politics, God forbid that we allow that to happen to our children, next thing you know? they'll be calling him Educator in Cheif or something equally fascist [Big Grin]

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T e x
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next thing you know they'll bring back school savings accounts, penmanship, and My Weekly Reader to help with spelling...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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Romney: Obama must be 'educator-in-chief'
Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney offers his advice to Barack Obama, and his views on labor unions, federal bailouts, Detroit, protectionism, and America's debts.

November 7, 2008: 9:47 AM ET


http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/05/news/newsmakers/romney.fortune/index.htm

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
next thing you know they'll bring back school savings accounts, penmanship, and My Weekly Reader to help with spelling...

it's socialism i tell you...

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glassman
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Students in grades pre-K-6, for example, are encouraged to "build background knowledge about the president of the United States by reading books about presidents and Barack Obama.

how dare they enforce research and Due Dilligence upon these poor children [Big Grin]

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raybond
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right wing slop for the stupid just like a tea party

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
right wing slop for the stupid just like a tea party

i liked the three stooges better [Big Grin]

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SeekingFreedom
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Are you three serious?

Noone sees any possible issues with the President using the DoE to MANDATE that our children find ways to 'help the President'?

Not the country. Not our communities.

Help the President.

And noone sees anything Orwellian in this?

Would someone explain to me how this ISN'T brainwashing of our youth to favor a specific party or platform?

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raybond
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you are insane

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glassman
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Would someone explain to me how this ISN'T brainwashing of our youth to favor a specific party or platform?

please give us a detailed explanation of how it is, since you are the one claiming that it is.

for starters? if you don't remember Bush claiming to be Educator in Cheif, or you didn't read Romney stating the same thing? i have no idea why it suddenly upsets you the Obama might be the same thing...

do you send your children to Church to be indoctrinated? were you Indoctrinated into your Church before Jr High?

the reason i bring it up is because that's real indcotrination.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such it is used pejoratively. Instruction in the basic principles of science, in particular, can not properly be called indoctrination, in the sense that the fundamental principles of science call for critical self-evaluation and sceptical scrutiny of one's own ideas.

asking kids to do this letter writing to themselves about how they can help the President is not indoctrination UNLESS they tell the kids what to write. then? it might become indoctrination, otherwise it's merely a thinking exersize.

Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself.

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glassman
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was Bush "indcotrinating" kids on 9-11?

 -

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Relentless.
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quote:
Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such it is used pejoratively. Instruction in the basic principles of science, in particular, can not properly be called indoctrination, in the sense that the fundamental principles of science call for critical self-evaluation and sceptical scrutiny of one's own ideas.
I guess that would bring up the argument that what is being taught as science in today's public schools is not in fact science but political propaganda... With glaring exceptions obviously. Much of science class is the basics.. but there are some major political talking points being crammed into our kid's heads that hasn't anything to do with science.
I seem to remember a guy on this forum a few years ago who proposed that federal funding of public schools was a road to tyranny.
Smart guy.

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SeekingFreedom
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WH Revises language

WH, Dept of Education Revise Language on Students Outlining How they Can “Help the President"

As one of the preparatory materials for teachers provided by the Department of Education, students had been asked to, "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. “

Today, after Republicans accused the White House of trying to indoctrinate school children with liberal propaganda the White House and the Department of Education changed the section to now read, "Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short‐term and long‐term education goals.”



This is from the DoE Letter itself:

• As the president speaks, teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful. Students could use a note-taking graphic organizer such as a “cluster web;” or, students could record their thoughts on sticky notes. Younger children could draw pictures and write as appropriate. As students listen to the speech, they could think about the following:

What is the president trying to tell me?
What is the president asking me to do?
What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?

• Students could record important parts of the speech where the president is asking them to do something. Students might think about the following:

What specific job is he asking me to do?
Is he asking anything of anyone else?
Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?


Remember, this is for the K-6 children. As far as Glass' indoctrination definition, all they know (with some exceptions) is that this is supposed to be the ultimate secular authority asking them to do something (whatever that is). They don't have any life experience basis to question whether it is good or not. It's like asking a kindergartner to decide whether their teacher is giving them a good education. They can't. They simply take what is given as 'right.'

For the 7-12 plan, here is a snippet...

•Is President Obama inspiring you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do anything?
•What do you believe are the challenges of your generation?
•How can you be a part of addressing these challenges?


Until Tuesday this is only conjecture, but here is my concern. I have no issue with the President challenging kids to stay in school and get an education. Worthy goals. What I am worried is that now that Rammussen is showing that Obama is striking out with adults (falling favorability numbers) he's now seeking to go for the children by teaching\'challenging' them that his path\beliefs are the only way to 'save' the country.

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T e x
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sounds as though they're being challenged to think rather than merely accepting the hate-memes coming from those who want Wall Street/insurance/Big Oil/etc to retain ultimate power and obscene profit.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

http://www.walletpop.com/****/2009/09/02/think-youve-got-health-insurance-better -double-check-and-be/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-speculators-on-the-cnnm-2351885929.html?x=0&.v =2

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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SF, do you really beleive this was an issue worthy of debate?

the real point of the exersize is to make kids aware that if they do their homework and go to school? that even a black man can be president in America now.


here is my concern. I have no issue with the President challenging kids to stay in school and get an education. Worthy goals. What I am worried is that now that Rammussen is showing that Obama is striking out with adults (falling favorability numbers) he's now seeking to go for the children by teaching\'challenging' them that his path\beliefs are the only way to 'save' the country.

i would hardly call Rassmussen polls an authority on the presidents favorability.

Rassmussen consitently polls a a very narrow segemnt of the population.

for instance? this is from their site today:

Last fall, during the Bush Administration, voters overwhelmingly opposed the bailout plans for banks but the bailout went ahead. Earlier this year, voters overwhelmingly opposed the federal takeover of General Motors and Chrysler, but they went ahead as well. Two-thirds of American voters (64%) support a law requiring the federal government to sell its interest in GM within one year.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/oba ma_approval_index_month_by_month


claiming that Two-thirds of American voters (64%) support a law requiring the federal government to sell its interest in GM within one year, is propaganda in an of itself.

Rassmussusen polls fox friends in order to create statistics to convince fox friends that they are somehow in the mainstream

fox friends likes to claim they are the number two cable channel for the same reason, if two people think somehting? it must be right, so the more that think it? the more right they are.


i watched how fox friends tried to make some sort of case out of the white house emailing people last month too..

well its all a bunch of horse manure just like this situation is.

fox friends is becoming so "fringe" that reasonable people are becoming somewhat alarmed at how many people are drinking their kool-aid.

the health care plan? the death panels? people actually beleived that stuff? it was a benefit that doctors could charge for, it had no provisions for review panels.

and the real reason we won't see health care reform if it doesn't happen? it's because people already on medicare (single payer coverage) will have killed it, and most of 'em have no clue what they are even against

look thru the pictures of those town meetings of people yelling. that's who was there. medicare recipients, fox friends literally scared out of their minds.

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SeekingFreedom
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You don't like Rasmussen, Glass? Try Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/tag/Presidential+Job+Approval.aspx

August 26, 2009

With 51% job approval, Barack Obama is now close to falling below the majority support level, and could do so at a faster rate than did all but two other post-World War II presidents.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
You don't like Rasmussen, Glass? Try Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/tag/Presidential+Job+Approval.aspx

August 26, 2009

With 51% job approval, Barack Obama is now close to falling below the majority support level, and could do so at a faster rate than did all but two other post-World War II presidents.

I notice alot of your posts, and articles you post, seem to have alot of caveats. If, could, possibly, maybe, etc. Just odd. Fear mongering maybe?

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SeekingFreedom
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Fearmongering? No, P. Acknowlegments that neither I nor the sources I quote are omnicient.

All I (or anyone else) can do is attempt to look at each item as it may relate to others and draw a conclusion based on previous instances. As for the Gallup 'could', that is based on trends.

Obama could find the cure for cancer tomorrow. That would raise his approval rating for sure.

Lacking that...it will in all likelyhood follow the current trend...down.

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Pagan
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Oh I understand now SF. Opinions and innuendoes. The GOP trademark.

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SeekingFreedom
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As opposed to Democratic facts and omnicience, yes?

Facts?

It was a FACT that the world was flat at one point, Pagan.

It was a FACT that the Earth was the center of the universe.

Fact is merely what is currently known. When information comes out that improves upon or changes our understanding of something it then becomes the fact.

If you disagree with my position, please feel free to share some of the Dem FACTS and omnicience, Pagan. I await your enlightenment.

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SeekingFreedom
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Just curious, P.

Do you contend that Gallup and Rasmussen are wrong?

That Obama's favorability in the country is actually improving and noone is noticing?

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
As opposed to Democratic facts and omnicience, yes?

Facts?

It was a FACT that the world was flat at one point, Pagan.

It was a FACT that the Earth was the center of the universe.

Fact is merely what is currently known. When information comes out that improves upon or changes our understanding of something it then becomes the fact.

If you disagree with my position, please feel free to share some of the Dem FACTS and omnicience, Pagan. I await your enlightenment.

See...that's where you are wrong. Those things you mention were "beliefs", not "facts". Kinda like your blind faith in all things GOP. No facts, just mindless faith and blather.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Just curious, P.

Do you contend that Gallup and Rasmussen are wrong?

That Obama's favorability in the country is actually improving and noone is noticing?

You rely exclusively on polls for facts? LMAO. You do realize we are a nation of 300MM people, yet those polls sample maybe 1k people per poll. Weak argument there SF.

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Just curious, P.

Do you contend that Gallup and Rasmussen are wrong?

That Obama's favorability in the country is actually improving and noone is noticing?

actually SF, i was making a completely different point.

Rassmussen and fox friends are both self-serving entities with a clear political agenda.

i am pointing out to you that you are being indoctrinated by them while they accuse Obama of attempting to indoctrinate their kids.

do you not see the absurdity here?

Obama's job aproval rating has dropped in specific response to the "death panel claims" and the "it's a conspiracy to email the public via the white house" claims..

i used to get (regular) mail from the Reagan and the Bush the First white house and never thought a thing about it.

suddenly it's "spooky" that the white house sends people unsolicited emails? or the white house has a back to school presentation for kids?

Bush the first did the same thing.

look, this is insanity. and fox and friends are perpetuating this stuff constantly..

by convincing each other that their paranoia is predicated on some sort of factual reality? they enhance it.

the ultimate political test for sanity should be "Would i be upset if MY chosen preference in a candidate did this?"

if you can't answer that question with an honest yes? then you should ignore it.

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SeekingFreedom
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Pagan, the polls are quoted by both sides specifically to boost their point and counter the opponents'.

I ask again, do you contend that Obama is getting MORE popular among americans in contrast to the polls' data?

And in regard to the beliefs vs. facts comment? Prior to data that showed them to be incorrect, those statements were generally held to be factually accurate. Only once data showed them to be wrong did opinions change and they were no longer held as 'true'.

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SeekingFreedom
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Glass,

I have a question for you. Why is it that everytime someone brings up something that doesn't support 'Obama the Wise' it's blamed on Fox?

Now, I'm not saying that Fox doesn't stretch things to fit their political agenda, but think about this for a minute. How many news networks exist other than Fox? How many of them could find facts to contradict anything that Fox distorts and then publish them to make a counter argument?

Why is it that in the current health debate everyone assumes that only crazy people listen to Fox and yet the Dem's are petrified to simply steam roll their way through congress with their bill?

Why is it that if Fox is the only outlet spouting 'lies and propaganda' that noone is able to sway public opinion in the current bill's favor?

Is it lack of audience? Is it lack of message? Is it lack of eloquence?

What is lacking in EVERY OTHER OUTLET that lets Fox sway opinion like many claim they do?

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Pagan, the polls are quoted by both sides specifically to boost their point and counter the opponents'.

I ask again, do you contend that Obama is getting MORE popular among americans in contrast to the polls' data?

And in regard to the beliefs vs. facts comment? Prior to data that showed them to be incorrect, those statements were generally held to be factually accurate. Only once data showed them to be wrong did opinions change and they were no longer held as 'true'.

That's my point SF. Even in the light of facts, the blind faithful(GOP) still believe. Thanks for making my point more clear.

I never put much stock in polls, you'd be wise to do the same. The sampling is too small and usually a bit biased.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Glass,

I have a question for you. Why is it that everytime someone brings up something that doesn't support 'Obama the Wise' it's blamed on Fox?

Now, I'm not saying that Fox doesn't stretch things to fit their political agenda, but think about this for a minute. How many news networks exist other than Fox? How many of them could find facts to contradict anything that Fox distorts and then publish them to make a counter argument?

Why is it that in the current health debate everyone assumes that only crazy people listen to Fox and yet the Dem's are petrified to simply steam roll their way through congress with their bill?

Why is it that if Fox is the only outlet spouting 'lies and propaganda' that noone is able to sway public opinion in the current bill's favor?

Is it lack of audience? Is it lack of message? Is it lack of eloquence?

What is lacking in EVERY OTHER OUTLET that lets Fox sway opinion like many claim they do?

LOL.. i look at YOUR posts for the references and they are always fox friends.

are you telling me that you believe the death panels rumors that FOX started?

we've discussed one aspect of health care reform here only.

that is whether a public option would be good or not.

do you deny that it is medicare recipients that have appeared in town halls over and over again shaking their fists?


i could sit here all day long and post and refute the lies fox disseminates, they just don't stop doing it. it's like trying to stop a tidal wave.

as for why the Dems are/were trying to do things in bipartisan way?
that's their choice.

i am not a democrat. i have in the past been a republican but i am 100% disgusted at what has happened to the party by the likes of fox and limbugger.


i hear and see them lying non-stop, and i refuse to accept this as politics as usual or acceptable. i will not lie to support my own political beleifs.



How many of them could find facts to contradict anything that Fox distorts and then publish them to make a counter argument?

they do, the problem is that the "angry people" do not listen to them anymore. i've seen plenty of discrediting of the lies...

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T e x
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Is it lack of audience? Is it lack of message? Is it lack of eloquence?

Did you watch the Moyers' interview?

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

I sent that link in a group e-mail this morning and moments ago got a reply from a person who works in the benefits office of city with nearly 20,000 municipal employees. Here's an excerpt:

quote:
It's so coincidental you included me on your group e-mail. One of my job assignments for the last few months has been to read and summarize
the draft health care reform bills coming out of the house and senate as well as keep up with media reports. This interview really nails the
problem Obama has with making changes to the status quo.



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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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SeekingFreedom
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Glass, of course alot of them are from Fox. Just as 90% of posts that were anti-Bush during his term were CNN\MSNBC. It's simply a matter of supporting viewpoints. If you're conservative\GoP(not the same thing) Fox is the station that caters to that view. If you're liberal\Dem(same as before, not the same) then you're likely to be courted by CNN\MSNBC.

It's simply who's dishing dirt on whom.

quote:
are you telling me that you believe the death panels rumors that FOX started?

Are you telling me that government run healthcare as it currently exist ISN'T being rationed? I posted the link to the broadcast that showed cancer care being denied by the state 'panel'.

quote:
do you deny that it is medicare recipients that have appeared in town halls over and over again shaking their fists?
Of course not. I think they have a right to be afraid but I think their concern is focused on the wrong issue. Adding 50 million people to an already burdened system can only diminish the care they are currently getting but simply changing one system for another by itself shouldn't hurt them.

quote:
as for why the Dems are/were trying to do things in bipartisan way?
that's their choice.

Let's be honest on this one. They can't even get their own people to line up and bow at this altar to force it through and they sure as hell want to share the blame with the Repubs when this all goes south.
Posts: 1802 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
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I would rather have my kids listen to a speach by Obama anyday than a fascist pig like bush no need to go into any long debate if there ever was a move tward brainwashing look no further than Bush,Rove,and the works of Cheney. All news cast and speaking was very planned no protestors anywhere in sight and a bunch of thugs running security that escorted anybody out for asking the wrong question

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glassman
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If you're conservative\GoP(not the same thing) Fox is the station that caters to that view. If you're liberal\Dem(same as before, not the same) then you're likely to be courted by CNN\MSNBC.


try CNN/MSNBC/CBS/ABC/ and NBC, or in fact, everybody else, including Public TV/Radio.

caters? yeah, that's a good word, catering news equals propaganda. tell people what they want to hear, train them to not hear anything that doesn't cater to their needs. sheeesh.. the truth is not important anyway.


Bush was given a free pass for a couple of years after 9-11.
it wasn't until Katrina that the "liberal" media "turned" on him.

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T e x
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It's simply who's dishing dirt on whom.

Watch that Moyers interview. The guy dishing dirt? Use to be a top PR guy for CIGNA...

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glassman
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I think they have a right to be afraid but I think their concern is focused on the wrong issue. Adding 50 million people to an already burdened system can only diminish the care they are currently getting but simply changing one system for another by itself shouldn't hurt them.

never mind that medicare-medicaid takes all of the unprofitable health insurance customers of the for profit insurance co's off books for them huh?
or that hospitals just charge those of US with insurance for the care they give for free to those that don't have the money?
cuz that's what's really happening.

i pointed this out to you before, as a Captialist, i recognise as FACT that for profit insurance companies can onl;y operate at a profit by getting rid of anybody that they cannot profitably cover, hence they do not want anybody that actually requires serious health care. that's why medicare/medicaid is doomed, because the for profit insurance co's are SUBSIDIZED by medicare medicaid.

those poor people went to those town halls angry because they are getting care at a super bargain now, and they are the only ones. soon? you will see more and more middle class people that can't get health care anymore too.

the last time health care reform was defeated? health care costs skyrocketed. watch and learn. BTW? i never supported hillarycare in any way shape or form.

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