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Author Topic: who is at fault?
glassman
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it's like Rick Santellis rant on CNBC yesterday...

i watch (listen) CNBC while i work for about 3 hours a day.

those guys on that station are the biggest pumpandumpers the planet has ever seen.

they aren't happy if they aren't making 10% per day.

fact is? they bear a very heavy responsibiltiy for all of this. they put people on all day every telling everybody to buy buy buy...

i like Ricks commentary as a general rule. i also listen careully to Steve Leishman...

however, i was disappointed about his rant yesterday, it misrepresents the extent and the conditions of the mortgage bailout.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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Quote Robot:

"I hope it didn't come across like I was judging. I just want to point out that it is only human to go after what we want. We all need guidence in our lives and that from time to time may come from outsiders telling us NO, you can't have that.
It's not simple. If anything things have become so complicated that the average person may have given up thinking for them selves. It would be nice to get back to the basics.
Give people back some pride and the respect they deserve. "


_________________________________________________
No, i should have used a different word.

Part of the problem as you stated are guidelines.

The guide lines change or are not put in place in some cases, because indivuals at the top of the chain are making to much money off of it.

But i am also very careful when i speak of guidelines and government, because somehow we seem to get on wrong paths with that idea.

A little of what we are talking about in the other post on credit cards and interest.

But bottom line is people still want to feel like they are working for a reason other than just surviving. When in reality that's all they are doing these days is trying to survive.

The costs of living and the lack of good paying jobs put many people in a survival mood.

We need more jobs and better paying jobs.

I no where i would start to help our situation, but our politicians don't seem to want to go there.

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Robot
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:


The times have changed a lot in the last half century and i am not sure it's been for the good of the American family. [/QB]

Good observation.
My first job in the USA was eleven years ago. I worked in South Carolina for five months. Great people and the atmosphere was very much like back home. But I was shocked at how many people had things on credit. Cell phones, Car rims, cars, boats, guns, bikes, ATVs. Like five or six things for each person. From the shop floor up to managers had stuff on credit. I still don't get it.

We never really had pawn shops, payday loans, car title loans until a few years ago. Our Gov. is going after Payday loan shops cause the are "stealing" from the people.

Just a different way of life I guess.

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Robot
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Quote Robot:

"I hope it didn't come across like I was judging. I just want to point out that it is only human to go after what we want. We all need guidence in our lives and that from time to time may come from outsiders telling us NO, you can't have that.
It's not simple. If anything things have become so complicated that the average person may have given up thinking for them selves. It would be nice to get back to the basics.
Give people back some pride and the respect they deserve. "


_________________________________________________
No, i should have used a different word.

Part of the problem as you stated are guidelines.

The guide lines change or are not put in place in some cases, because indivuals at the top of the chain are making to much money off of it.

But i am also very careful when i speak of guidelines and government, because somehow we seem to get on wrong paths with that idea.

A little of what we are talking about in the other post on credit cards and interest.

But bottom line is people still want to feel like they are working for a reason other than just surviving. When in reality that's all they are doing these days is trying to survive.

The costs of living and the lack of good paying jobs put many people in a survival mood.

We need more jobs and better paying jobs.

I no where i would start to help our situation, but our politicians don't seem to want to go there.

Also good points.

Not to often do i get excited with our Gov. over things they do, but I am glad they don't fool around to much with our banks.

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Robot
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by Robot:
My opinion you have to spreed the blame very thin over everyone involved.

bingo

it is all of US. funny a Canadian had tell us huh? [Big Grin]

Hey, Happy to help.

I'll send you a bill.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Hey, glass...Canadians are us too.

once again your underdeveloped sense of sovereignty shows thru..

has it occurred to you the people from other countries might perceive a difference that they don't mind?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Robot
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quote:
Originally posted by Robot:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by Robot:
My opinion you have to spreed the blame very thin over everyone involved.

bingo

it is all of US. funny a Canadian had tell us huh? [Big Grin]

Hey, Happy to help.

I'll send you a bill.

I need to work on my happy face posting skills
http://www.allstocks.com/stockmessageboard/ubb/icons/icon12.gif

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Hey, glass...Canadians are us too.

once again your underdeveloped sense of sovereignty shows thru..

has it occurred to you the people from other countries might perceive a difference that they don't mind?

Indeed it has, and I don't mind their perception of a difference, but Canada, like the U. S. is America. We, you and I, live in The United States OF America, we are not America.

(I say, above, we live in the United States, which may indeed be perceived, by many, as an entirely different entity than that place made up of Mississippi, Alabama, and parts of Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Arkansas, where you live....at least that was the case when I lived there and I suspect it hasn't decided to change.)

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glassman
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huh? you mean Texas isn't heaven on earth and a country (created on God's best day) within itself?

every Texan i've ever met convinced me of that in short order [Wink]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Robot:
I need to work on my happy face posting skills
http://www.allstocks.com/stockmessageboard/ubb/icons/icon12.gif [/QB]

 -

click on th icons in the lower left of the reply board for speed, and use [ img] and [/img ] without any spaces to insert a gif

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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'huh? you mean Texas isn't heaven on earth and a country within itself?

every Texan i've ever met convinced me of that in short order " [Wink]

_________________________________________________

I think your talking about California, if you take taxes and some of the traffic away.

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bdgee
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"I may not go to heaven.

They may not let cowboys in.

So, when I die, just take me back to Texas.

'Cause Texas is as close as I've been."

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Robot
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by Robot:
I need to work on my happy face posting skills
http://www.allstocks.com/stockmessageboard/ubb/icons/icon12.gif

 -

click on th icons in the lower left of the reply board for speed, and use [ img] and [/img ] without any spaces to insert a gif [/QB]

Thanks [BadOne]  -
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bdgee
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http://www.imeem.com/lakecitydave/music/oiPHLZ2N/tanya_tucker_texas_when_i_die/
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beechwood
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I would never take out an ARM under ANY circumstances.
As with stocks, whatever goes up must come down...and versa visa...

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bdgee
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Nope, beach, no versa visa...lots of them go down and never come back up.
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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
huh? you mean Texas isn't heaven on earth and a country (created on God's best day) within itself?

every Texan i've ever met convinced me of that in short order [Wink]

SHUT UP!

We don't need any more gold diggers over haere...

Texas SUX! Go away! You'll die of pollution. Your mischievous kin will get the death penalty. You may be run over by wild horses, crazy cowboys, or crazy-wild cows. Your car may be crushed by tornado-whipped tumbleweeds...

RUST NEVER SLEEPS!

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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Not only all that, there is a move in the Legislature to legalize shooting hogs from choppers. They might spot you and be confused.
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IWISHIHAD
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Quote Tex:

"SHUT UP!

We don't need any more gold diggers over haere...

Texas SUX! Go away! You'll die of pollution. Your mischievous kin will get the death penalty. You may be run over by wild horses, crazy cowboys, or crazy-wild cows. Your car may be crushed by tornado-whipped tumbleweeds...

RUST NEVER SLEEPS!"

_________________________________________________

Sounds good were all heading to Texas... is dinner ready yet?

Retiredat49 said i could visit him and he had just installed a new TV and sound system.

I would expect the same when i come to visit you, i am kind of picky.

Especially if i have to fight my way through all those crazy cowboys and cowgirls. [Smile]

-

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T e x
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may be a while on the new TV--gotta get a new house first [Wink]

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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If ya don't like cowboys, ya ain't a gonna be happy in Texas and if ya don't like cowgirls (and ya ain't one yaself), I ain't real certain we need ya fo much around heah.......we ain't a gonner tar an feather ya, but yaw'll stay ovah there in Dallis amongst ya own kind, Dallis being the one sanctuary we keeps for damnyankees and other assorted and unassorted folk of questionable worth or value.
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The Bigfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by beechwood:
I would never take out an ARM under ANY circumstances.
As with stocks, whatever goes up must come down...and versa visa...

Actually Beech, when you average a good 5 yr ARM against a 30 yr fixed they can often make good sense. I wouldn't do it now, what with fixed rates at historic lows, but it wasn't that long ago fixed rates were running 10% and more. A good ARM would have rode down the rate cuts automatically while someone in a fixed rate would'a had to pay to refinance his loan if he wanted to take advantage, thereby eating the first couple of years profits.

Know your level of risk and if ARMs seem too risky to you then stick with fixed and feel no shame in it. If you are up for a little risk make damn sure all the terms aren't written in the banks favor, as some are wont to do.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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glassman
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i'm with Beech, i'd never take one either. never have.

even with the good deals? i don't like to take that kind of risk...

people were told their ARMS would never adjust higher.. the price of oil ran up? the Fed saw inflation and voila ici. higher rates.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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Check this video out...Barney Frank years ago on camera pushing Freddy Mac to get more sub primes out the window. Bush administration warned about a crisis if the Freddy and Fannie go unchecked....regulation that was sought to be imposed gets blocked by Democrats!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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CCM, all this blame being put in Frank is for stuff that was done when the House, Senate and White House were owned by the GOP..

Fox News is FOS.


not only do i not like Franks? i don't vote in Mass, and i wouldn't vote for him if i did..

fact is? the GOP was running the whole shooting match then, and blaming others is not just propaganda, it shows a lack of morals.

the worst part is that the GOP did not fix anything and Bush most certainly was involved in encouraging subprime lending as i've posted the evidence here over and over.

the subprime blame game is a smokscreen..

H.R. 1461:
109th Congress

This is a bill in the U.S. Congress originating in the House of Representatives ("H.R."). A bill must be passed by both the House and Senate and then be signed by the President before it becomes law.

Bill numbers restart from 1 every two years. Each two-year cycle is called a session of Congress. This bill was created in the 109th Congress, in 2005-2006.

The titles of bills are written by the bill's sponsor and are a part of the legislation itself. GovTrack does not editorialize bill summaries.
2005-2006

Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

To reform the regulation of certain housing-related Government-sponsored enterprises, and for other purpose


here's the vote tally:


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2005-547


it never went thru the GOP Senate

Bush's "ownership society" included sub-prime.

last action on HR 1461?

Oct 31, 2005: Received in the Senate and Read twice and referred to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.

who ran the Senate then? Frist? Trent Lott?

one other thing to consider?

this had Bipartisan support in the House...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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fromt the WSJ opinion section:

How Government Created the Financial Crisis
Research shows the failure to rescue Lehman did not trigger the fall panic.

....Monetary excesses were the main cause of the boom. The Fed held its target interest rate, especially in 2003-2005, well below known monetary guidelines that say what good policy should be based on historical experience. Keeping interest rates on the track that worked well in the past two decades, rather than keeping rates so low, would have prevented the boom and the bust. Researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development have provided corroborating evidence from other countries: The greater the degree of monetary excess in a country, the larger was the housing boom.

Adjustable-rate, subprime and other mortgages were packed into mortgage-backed securities of great complexity. Rating agencies underestimated the risk of these securities, either because of a lack of competition, poor accountability, or most likely the inherent difficulty in assessing risk due to the complexity.

Other government actions were at play: The government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were encouraged to expand and buy mortgage-backed securities, including those formed with the risky subprime mortgages.

Government action also helped prolong the crisis. Consider that the financial crisis became acute on Aug. 9 and 10, 2007, when money-market interest rates rose dramatically. Interest rate spreads, such as the difference between three-month and overnight interbank loans, jumped to unprecedented levels.

Diagnosing the reason for this sudden increase was essential for determining what type of policy response was appropriate. If liquidity was the problem, then providing more liquidity by making borrowing easier at the Federal Reserve discount window, or opening new windows or facilities, would be appropriate. But if counterparty risk was behind the sudden rise in money-market interest rates, then a direct focus on the quality and transparency of the bank's balance sheets would be appropriate.

Early on, policy makers misdiagnosed the crisis as one of liquidity, and prescribed the wrong treatment.

To provide more liquidity, the Fed created the Term Auction Facility (TAF) in December 2007. Its main aim was to reduce interest rate spreads in the money markets and increase the flow of credit. But the TAF did not seem to make much difference. If the reason for the spread was counterparty risk as distinct from liquidity, this is not surprising.....


there's more in the article...

the only people that blame Fannie and Freddie directly as th eroot cause are GOP actiivsts that are not admitting the GOP's role in Fannie and Freddie...

the other group that supported Fannie was the National Association of Home Builders

Expanding the American dream commitment; National Association of Home Builders and Fannie Mae choose Atlanta as first demonstration site for nationwide Joint Workforce Housing Initiative.


Article from:
M2 Presswire
Article date:
July 23, 2004

M2 PRESSWIRE-23 July 2004-Fannie Mae: Expanding the American dream commitment; National Association of Home Builders and Fannie Mae choose Atlanta as first demonstration site for nationwide Joint Workforce Housing Initiative(C)1994-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD



Bob Corker is also on their support list.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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most of these issues are not nearly as black and white as Fox wants to make their watchers think, they pull a few soundbites adn pretend that covers the whole story. it doesn't:


Border Patrol Series: Immigration & Construction
Published by Communications on June 14, 2007 6:44 PM | Permalink
Providing first jobs for generations of immigrants, the construction industry seeks to keep the labor stream flowing.

By Anne Riley

June 14, 2007 | The construction industry has been increasing its lobbying efforts related to immigration to tackle this year’s controversial reform legislation, but for homebuilders and contractors across the country, the sector’s stake in immigration is in no way a recent development. “Construction has always been the place where new immigrants to the U.S. got a foothold in the American society,” said Jenna Hamilton, assistant staff vice president of government affairs at the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB). “From the Irish to the Germans to the Italians to the Chinese—when they came to the U.S. as immigrant groups, they found a home in construction,” she said.

Builders and contractors traditionally support Republicans, giving 70 percent of their 2006 contributions to Republican candidates. However, Democratic bill co-sponsor Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey was the No. 1 recipient of funds from construction in 2006, receiving almost $1 million. Bill advocate Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) ranked No. 6, receiving $439,000 from the industry last year, while Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), one of six legislators to ultimately bring the bill to a standstill, received $563,000.



http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2007/06/border-patrol-series-immigrati-6.html

it's a twisted mess.

this article was about 60 days prior to the first signs of the meltdown, it goes on:

According to NAHB’s Hamilton, home builders estimate they will need to build 18 million new houses over the next decade to meet a rising demand, an initiative that will create almost 1 million new construction jobs. Commercial developers, too, face the growing challenge of staffing worksites when the demand for employees significantly exceeds the supply. However, despite efforts to attract American workers, the industry continues to struggle to fill vacant positions and is often forced to look abroad for workers. “The fact of the matter is, in today’s America, you don’t get a lot of parents who raise their kids and say, ‘When you grow up, we want you to be a construction worker.’ As an industry, we struggle with that image,” Hamilton said.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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speaking of "black & white," yumping yimminee...the following is so outrageous, I wonder whether it's an Internet hoax...

check out this strip-search story (link won't work, cuz of b l o g s p o t--cut n paste and remove spaces):

http://shakespearessister.b l o g s p o t.com/2009/02/police-assault-woman-who-called-f or.html

Did y'all post this while I was unconscious?

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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jordanreed
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Id like to follow this case..

unbelievable....how could they mistake her for the perp?..so many questions...

--------------------
jordan

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
speaking of "black & white," yumping yimminee...the following is so outrageous, I wonder whether it's an Internet hoax...

check out this strip-search story (link won't work, cuz of b l o g s p o t--cut n paste and remove spaces):

http://shakespearessister.b l o g s p o t.com/2009/02/police-assault-woman-who-called-f or.html

Did y'all post this while I was unconscious?

missed it.

should probably have thread of it's own.

i want to know how you convict someone for resisting arrest and disorderly conduct at their own home?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Because I know of similar "events" I am prone to accept the news reports and, honestly, surprised news reports ever were made. I've seen reporters that did report on these things find a move to another town a necessity.

Here's a further concern. It isn't only happening to women! Maybe it does garner more sympathy for the female victim, but it doesn't happen because they are female. It happens because of the culture that cops live in, wherein they constantly refer to the "civilians", meaning non-cops, the "them vs. us" attitude, with "Cops take care of cops" whispered among themselves anytime any "outsider", i.e., "civilian" might speak up.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
speaking of "black & white," yumping yimminee...the following is so outrageous, I wonder whether it's an Internet hoax...

check out this strip-search story (link won't work, cuz of b l o g s p o t--cut n paste and remove spaces):

http://shakespearessister.b l o g s p o t.com/2009/02/police-assault-woman-who-called-f or.html

Did y'all post this while I was unconscious?

missed it.

should probably have thread of it's own.

i want to know how you convict someone for resisting arrest and disorderly conduct at their own home?

Damned near happened to me a couple of years back, glass... I had called the police when a pair knocked on my door and ended up threatening be with a gun. Among the cops that showed up was a friend of one of the pair. I was told that if I didn't cancel my call for the help of the cops and apologize to the pair that I was going to jail right then and there, even though, before the cops arrived, I had not so much as stepped out of the house.

Once the one cop let the others know that he was friends with one of the pair, there was a wholesale move by all four of the cops to make it be me that had been the instigator and it was made clear that "Cops take care of cops" and they had agreed on a "tale" that would become the record.

Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
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Oh, it happens alla time. I was just shocked to see such flagrant abuse in a video made public...

Here's an update: cops apparently filed suit against the TV station, and Ms. Steffey has a suit pending...

http://www.cantonrep.com/communities/canton/x309570834/Deputies-sue-TV-station-o ver-reports-about-woman-stripped-naked

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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