So...if the American consumer wises up, and starts supporting their brothers, sisters, neighbors, and friends by purchasing high quality, well designed, fuel efficient, domestic vehicles...then I believe that not only will the big 3 survive, they will flourish...
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There has to be a little more there than that.
They have caused their own problems over the years it's not the publics fault.
Image is part of this i am sure, and image is built from the top down and over years.
Flying around in corporate jets and big salaries and bonuses at the top cannot help their image especially for many consumers that have been struggling for years and companies that have been doing likewise and now asking for money from us.
Again maybe they should start and had started with some basics when they decide to promote their products to the general public, their name is not Ferrari.(they might be able to get away with arrogance)
These high paid people at these companies need to step up and act like they really care about the company and consumers or it will be real hard to get much sympathy for the company.
Trouble is i am not sure they do care, i really doubt it that's what makes it harder.
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posted
So...if the American consumer wises up, and starts supporting their brothers, sisters, neighbors, and friends by purchasing high quality, well designed, fuel efficient, domestic vehicles...then I believe that not only will the big 3 survive, they will flourish...
I agree...
Toyota now makes a good product here in the US. Remember in the 80's when their vehicles would rust out in no time. They've come a long ways.
Although i do agree with you that upper management needs to get back down to earth and start setting "examples"...
Sadly it is middle class workers and retiree's that are going to be hurt if they go under...not the CEO's
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It is kinda funny that if an athlete blows his image and is endorsing a product they will usually drop them like a hot potato.
Yet the car manufactures don't seem to get it, their image is built in some very similiar ways, yet it seems to take them so long to have a clue or at least to change in the right direction.
Maybe that is one of the problems with older companies that have been so profitable in the past.
As far as the middle class workers and retiree's that is story of our lives.
The big guy's have the money, maybe a little blow to their ego if they lose their job but that's about it.
Will the one's retired lose their complete benefit package if bankruptcy occurs or are most just involved in 401's?
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Will the one's retired lose their complete benefit package if bankruptcy occurs or are most just involved in 401's?
it'd be picked up by the taxpayer:
PBGC is a federal corporation created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974. It currently protects the pensions of nearly 44 million American workers and retirees in more than 29,000 private single-employer and multiemployer defined benefit pension plans. PBGC receives no funds from general tax revenues. Operations are financed by insurance premiums set by Congress and paid by sponsors of defined benefit plans, investment income, assets from pension plans trusteed by PBGC, and recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans.
IMO? this is part of the plan. pensions have been being raided since the 80's.
even tho that says the taxpayer doesn't pay it? the taxpayer is the garantee fund behind it just like the FDIC... the FDIC charges fees? but ultimatley the taxpayer stands behind the FDIC if the costs outrun the fees.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Peaser: So...if the American consumer wises up, and starts supporting their brothers, sisters, neighbors, and friends by purchasing high quality, well designed, fuel efficient, domestic vehicles...then I believe that not only will the big 3 survive, they will flourish...
I agree...
Toyota now makes a good product here in the US. Remember in the 80's when their vehicles would rust out in no time. They've come a long ways.
What was it that you say you did for a living Peaser? remember this...what comes around...goes around!
posted
Close Window Ford says CEO will work for $1 to get gov't loans Tuesday, December 2, 2008 DETROIT - Ford Motor Co. will tell Congress that it plans to return to a pretax profit or break even in 2011 when the Detroit Three automakers' CEOs appear before lawmakers this week to request $25 billion in government loans.
Ford CEO Alan Mulally said he'll work for $1 per year if the company has to take any government loan money.
After grilling the CEOs at hearings last month, Congressional leaders demanded plans from the automakers by Tuesday to show that they will survive if they get federal funds. The plan Ford submitted said the company will cancel all management employees' 2009 bonuses and will not pay any merit increases for its North American salaried employees next year.
The company also said it will sell its five corporate aircraft. The CEOs of all three Detroit automakers were harshly criticized during last month's hearings for flying to Washington in separate corporate jets.
Mulally said in an interview with The Associated Press on Tuesday that Ford will give much more detail to Congress than it did previously, and the company will emphasize the steps it has taken to cut its labor costs with the United Auto Workers union.
Mulally said Ford will seek $9 billion as its share of the loan money but may not need to use it. The Dearborn-based company has said it has enough cash to make it through next year without assistance.
As part of the plan submitted to Congress, Ford said it does not anticipate a liquidity crisis in 2009, "barring a bankruptcy by one of its domestic competitors or a more severe economic downturn that would further cripple automotive sales." The loan would provide a safeguard against worsening conditions, the company said.
The company said it will accelerate plans to roll out electric vehicles as part of its plan.
"We are going to do that across our product line," Mulally said in the interview.
The first plug-in vehicle will be a Transit Connect small van for commercial use in 2010 and a car the size of the Ford Focus compact the following year.
Ford also said it will accelerate plans for hybrid gas-electric vehicles.
Mulally said he will encourage automakers and parts suppliers to join forces to develop new battery technologies in the U.S. for future electric cars so the country doesn't rely on foreign batteries.
"We don't want to trade oil for batteries," he said.
Ford's plan calls for an investment of up to $14 billion to improve fuel efficiency over the next seven years. The company said would improve the overall efficiency of its fleet by an average of 14 percent in 2009.
The CEOs of the Detroit Three are scheduled to appear before congressional committees Thursday and Friday. Chrysler LLC and General Motors Corp. have said they are perilously low on cash and need the government loans to survive the recession and the worst auto sales environment in 25 years.
GM and Chrysler were to submit their plans to Congress later in the day.
The CEOs were skewered on their first visit in November, when lawmakers criticized them for high labor costs and products that aren't competitive with foreign automakers.
"I think we learned a lot from that experience," Mulally said in the interview, adding that the CEOs were there last time to discuss the progress of the industry, not a plan for viability.
Ford's new plan is 32 pages long, plus an appendix, and it includes much detail that was lacking during the first visit.
The company says its plan to achieve profitability or break even by 2011 is based on industrywide sales estimates of 12.5 million units in 2009, 14.5 million in 2010 and 15.5 million in 2011. The seasonally adjusted annual sales rate dropped to 10.6 million vehicles in October.
Ford shares rose 25 cents, or 9.8 percent, to $2.80 in midday trading.
Ford's plan said it will reduce its number of dealers by 606 to 3,790 by the end of the year. It will also trim the number of major sourcing suppliers it uses to 750 from 1,600.
Ford reiterated its intention to offload Volvo, by either selling the Swedish automaker or spinning it off into a separate company. Since 2007, Ford has sold its Jaguar, Aston Martin and Land Rover lines. It also sold most of its stake in Madza.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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ford may be the only ones actually trying to pull out of this. they seem to be the only ones restructuring their business. GM is just making more plants outside the US.
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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Tuesday, December 2, 2008 NEW YORK - General Motors' November U.S. sales plunged 41 percent, while Ford's dropped 31 percent, dashing hopes that the industrywide drop in vehicle demand might be easing as Detroit's automakers prepare to state their second case for a federal bailout.
Their overseas rivals posted abismal results as well. Toyota's November sales tumbled 34 percent, and Honda's fell 32 percent.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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posted
It sounds like the UAW is taking steps to stay afloat as well.
The unions were preparing to make sacrifices as well. United Auto Workers leaders summoned local union leaders from across the country to an emergency meeting Wednesday in Detroit to discuss possible concessions. Up for discussion were the possibility of scrapping a much-maligned jobs bank in which laid-off workers keep receiving most of their pay and postponing the automakers' payments into a multibillion-dollar union-administered health care fund.
posted
In this country, Toyota (*and the other Japanese and the European auto plants only do final assembly. All the parts are manufactured there (where the government pays for all health care, via taxes the companies pay) and shipped here for assembly.
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Close Window UAW to renegotiate labor terms, suspend jobs bank Wednesday, December 3, 2008 DETROIT - The United Auto Workers said Wednesday it is willing to change its contracts with U.S. automakers and accept delayed payments of billions of dollars to a union-run health care trust to do its part to help the struggling companies secure $34 billion in government loans.
United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said the union will suspend the jobs bank, in which laid-off workers are paid up to 95 percent of their salaries while not working, but he did not give specifics or a timetable of when the program will end.
"We're going to sit down and work out the mechanics," Gettelfinger said at a news conference after meeting with local union officials. "We're a little unclear on some of the issues."
Members of Congress criticized the automakers last month for paying workers who are not on the job. About 3,500 auto workers across the three companies are currently in jobs bank programs.
One local union member who was in the meeting said the changes to the jobs bank would nearly eliminate the program. The member asked not to be identified because the details had not been made public.
Gettelfinger stopped short of saying the union would reopen contract talks with General Motors Corp., Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Co. but said it would be willing to return to the bargaining table to change some terms.
Talks with GM will begin immediately, but additional bargaining officials must be elected for Ford and Chrysler, Gettelfinger said, and any modifications would still have to be ratified by local union members.
He also said the union will run a television ad in Maine, Kentucky, Indiana and Minnesota to put the faces of union workers on the controversy over the loans, and explain how the auto industry differs from the banking industry. The ads presumably are designed to pressure Congressional opponents of the loans.
"There's a perception problem," Gettelfinger said, stressing that the automakers' woes have painted a negative view of the union. "Yes, we have lost some clout."
Delaying the health care trust payments will help the companies survive their cash shortages, which they say were brought on by the severe economic downturn and the worst U.S. sales climate in more than a quarter century.
GM had been scheduled to pay more than $7.5 billion early next year to the union-administered fund which will take over retiree health care payments on Jan. 1, 2010. Ford owes $6.3 billion to its trust fund at the end of this year. Chrysler figures were unavailable.
The delay will have to be approved by federal courts, which already have blessed the trusts' formation.
All three companies agreed to fund the trusts, called voluntary employee beneficiary associations or VEBAs, as part of the landmark 2007 contract reached with the UAW. By doing so they move billions in liabilities off their books.
When they go into effect, the trusts will pay health care bills for about 800,000 UAW retirees, spouses and dependents at the three companies. GM expects to save about $3 billion a year when the expenses are moved, while Ford says it will save $1 billion.
The CEOs of all three automakers are heading to Washington for more hearings Thursday and Friday on their loan requests after an abysmal showing before lawmakers last month. Gettelfinger will also attend.
Congressional leaders demanded business plans from all three that include a reduction in labor costs so Detroit is more competitive with foreign automakers with U.S. factories. The companies submitted their plans to Congress on Tuesday.
"I don't think Congress is out for blood," Gettelfinger said of the criticism the union received during his previous testimony last month. "There will be more pressure on us to do this. We're going to step up and do it."
That sentiment was echoed by several union representatives at the news conference.
"Everybody has to give a little bit," said Rich Bennett, an official for Local 122 in Twinsburg, Ohio, representing Chrysler workers. "We've made concessions. We really feel we're doing our part."
But a retired GM worker said the union might be acting hastily out of fear that one of the automakers could shut down.
"Fear is a bad basis on which to make decisions," said Frank Hammer, of Local 909 in Warren, Michigan. "I think they're making another mistake."
Members at Local 122 are fearful of losing their jobs, said Bennett's associate, Ken Walters. They're seeing nearby plants shut down on regular basis.
The president of Chrysler said the UAW's willingness to change the union's contract is a good step.
Chrysler LLC President Tom LaSorda said during a Toledo rally for the industry on Wednesday that both sides need to go back and review the entire framework of the contract. He said if the union would surrender job security protections it would help the Detroit Three in the long run.
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-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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The UAW has been willing and has renegotiated their contracts several times in the last 20 years and agreed to accept lower wages during negotiations to help out the auto companies, but management has never kicked in and lowered their own pay and has never bothered to return or make up for the lost pay.
Same has been true in the airline industry.
Still, the republican machine wants to use this crises as a means of union busting.
The banks and wall street haven't any unions, so they are willing to help those workers. By refusing to support the auto industry, they can decimate a large part of organized labor and they can then funnel the funds that could help the auto industry and those workers into more transfers of public funds into the offshore pockets of the fabulously wealthy and oil companies, who use various tax schemes to never pay their fair share of taxes.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: welcome to the new world order budgee.
this ain't just a republican plan. the Clintons were with the program from day one.
NAFTA and MFN status to China were coffin nails to American labor.
all these fools that calim they are "doing the third world a favor" are propagandists. it was never about helping anybody but themselves.
You make that mistake again. Never have I ever been a Clintonite.
Yes, Clinton did indeed give in to the republican demands and support that crap (now, guess why I have never been a Clintonite), but it was then and has ever been a republican issue.
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: Shoot, I just spent about an hour with a real estate guy ("Realtor," I suppose) who blames the subprime mess on Jimmy Carter.
He wasn't up "credit derivative swaps," though...
he prolly listens to American Family Radio.
the Christian conservative talk radio people are still in denial...
next Feb? it'll all be Obama's fault,and they'll be pretending it all started on Jan 22...
fire him and find a realtor that's realistic
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: welcome to the new world order budgee.
this ain't just a republican plan. the Clintons were with the program from day one.
NAFTA and MFN status to China were coffin nails to American labor.
all these fools that calim they are "doing the third world a favor" are propagandists. it was never about helping anybody but themselves.
You make that mistake again. Never have I ever been a Clintonite.
Yes, Clinton did indeed give in to the republican demands and support that crap (now, guess why I have never been a Clintonite), but it was then and has ever been a republican issue.
i didn't say a word about you being a Clintonite, i was merely responding to your claim that it is some sort of partisan scheme, which it isn't...
the people doing this don't care who's in charge, they own both parties.
it's funny to hear the politicians preach on how good it is to send all of our jobs to other countries, and blame poor wages on lack of education...
shouldn't we all just spend our whole lives in school so we can have enough education (just before we die) to be worthy of living the American dream...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: Shoot, I just spent about an hour with a real estate guy ("Realtor," I suppose) who blames the subprime mess on Jimmy Carter.
He wasn't up "credit derivative swaps," though...
he prolly listens to American Family Radio.
the Christian conservative talk radio people are still in denial...
next Feb? it'll all be Obama's fault,and they'll be pretending it all started on Jan 22...
fire him and find a realtor that's realistic
nope: I need him to get the deal done...
thick face, black heart: won't hurt society if he helps me get this deal. Call me egoist, but in my heart of hearts, society is better served when I get re-settled and away from this feeling of water moccasins in my bed.
I'm jumpy as hell, living in motels...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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"i didn't say a word about you being a Clintonite, i was merely responding to your claim that it is some sort of partisan scheme, which it isn't..."
Wrong.
It is and has been part of the republican mantra of freemarketism for decades at least.
Those particular politicians don't really mean education, They mean indoctrination to perform a specific and very limited task, duty, or job that suits the needs of their major contributors that control labor intensive businesses in their home territories. They have no real interest in a populace that can and will think and learn on their own and that, thereby, might not subjugate themselves to those major contributors needs.
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