posted
I think JP Morgan will get themselves in trouble buying too many companies too soon... they will overextend themselves.. they did like 6 deals this year alone i believe?
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quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I think JP Morgan will get themselves in trouble buying too many companies too soon... they will overextend themselves.. they did like 6 deals this year alone i believe?
But Mach, buying $307BB in assets for $1.9BB. Easy decision. Seems like a fox in the hen house to me. That is absolute financial rape.
Put it in common terms. Buy a $500k house for like $5k. Wouldn't you do that? I sure as hell would. Taxpayers got raped yet again on that deal.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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Details begining to materialize as Congress works to hammer out the details.
I still really don't like this idea but I gotta admit that Buffett holds a lot more respect from me then Bush or Paulson. If he says we need this it makes me pause. (Which is probably exactly why someone asked him to speak out.)
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posted
Let me tell you why there is a part of me that would like to see sob's suffer a little and may watch a few go down.
When me and my wife were young our firt son was very ill do not want to go into what was wrong our insurance coverd most of the cost but not the years worth of home care and special attention he would need.
We both had to work to make ends meat then I went to the bank to get an equity loan on our house so my wife could stay home and we were refused told we would be a bad risk i had to get a part time job and so did my wife and take care of our son, we went backwards for two years and it took me five years to work out of the short term debt We had aquired. my son is fine but we were put in a real financial bind for five years.
This same Bank today is in trouble and so is the secound one I tried at Why? Because of greed and bad management they can't go to the market and barrow so they are on there knees begging tax payers so they can stay in business most likley they will squrim out of paying us back.
I big part of me would like to shovle the dirt over them myself.
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quote:Originally posted by bond006: Let me tell you why there is a part of me that would like to see sob's suffer a little and may watch a few go down.
When me and my wife were young our firt son was very ill do not want to go into what was wrong our insurance coverd most of the cost but not the years worth of home care and special attention he would need.
We both had to work to make ends meat then I went to the bank to get an equity loan on our house so my wife could stay home and we were refused told we would be a bad risk i had to get a part time job and so did my wife and take care of our son, we went backwards for two years and it took me five years to work out of the short term debt We had aquired. my son is fine but we were put in a real financial bind for five years.
This same Bank today is in trouble and so is the secound one I tried at Why? Because of greed and bad management they can't go to the market and barrow so they are on there knees begging tax payers so they can stay in business most likley they will squrim out of paying us back.
I big part of me would like to shovle the dirt over them myself.
I'll buy you the shovel...and ship it free.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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i still cannot figure out what effect buying th ebad mortgages has on credit defauit swap "insurers"...
say the govt buys a bond for 60% of face, and the loss is 40%... does the seller of the insurance (CDS) have to pay the difference? or is the credit swap only good if the bonds value drops to zero...
i'll keep looking and see what i can find...
another issue is how to value assets that don't have a market at all.... nobody else wants them...
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One 1994 trip by a group of JPMorgan bankers to the tony Boca Raton Resort & Club in Florida has become the stuff of Wall Street legend—though not for the raucous partying (although there was plenty of that, too). Holed up for most of the weekend in a conference room at the pink, Spanish-style resort, the JPMorgan bankers were trying to get their heads around a question as old as banking itself: how do you mitigate your risk when you loan money to someone? By the mid-'90s, JPMorgan's books were loaded with tens of billions of dollars in loans to corporations and foreign governments, and by federal law it had to keep huge amounts of capital in reserve in case any of them went bad. But what if JPMorgan could create a device that would protect it if those loans defaulted, and free up that capital?
Like Robert Oppenheimer and his team of nuclear physicists in the 1940s, Brickell and his JPMorgan colleagues didn't realize they were creating a monster.
One of the earliest CDS deals came out of JPMorgan in December 1997, when the firm put into place the idea hatched in Boca Raton. It essentially took 300 different loans, totaling $9.7 billion, that had been made to a variety of big companies like Ford, Wal-Mart and IBM, and cut them up into pieces known as "tranches" (that's French for "slices"). The bank then identified the riskiest 10 percent tranche and sold it to investors in what was called the Broad Index Securitized Trust Offering, or Bistro for short. The Bistro was put together by Terri Duhon, at the time a 25-year-old MIT graduate working on JPMorgan's credit swaps desk in New York—a division that would eventually earn the name the Morgan Mafia for the number of former members who went on to senior positions at global banks and hedge funds. "We made it possible for banks to get their credit risk off their books and into nonfinancial institutions like insurance companies and pension funds," says Duhon, who now heads her own derivatives consulting business in London.
"I big part of me would like to shovle the dirt over them myself."
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You would need something bigger to get all of them like a bobcat shovel.
I can not believe what they are going to vote on did not expect just the bad side of these companies.
Wouldn't it be nice to know that if you own your own business that someone would buy up the bad side to take away the risk, plus make a hugh salary in the process, where do i sign.
"The ultimate goal of the plan remains the same: buy bad mortgage-related bets from weakened financial companies"
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In your hast of hate and disgust to see the bad guys punished in this market mess, you are being irrational. There is a lot more at stake here than just bad guys.
Suppose a bunch of bad guys pirated a cruise ship full of guys that weren't part of their badness (does happen fairly and too often, doesn't it) and in the process of their efforts the ship was out to sea when it began to surely sink. If you follow the reasoning I see too many of you jumping on with both feet, in order to assure that the bad guys suffer for their badness, you would disallow anyone coming to the rescue and let all on board drown.
Yes, it is the case that saving the innocent will most likely allow the bad guys to live to steal another day. But, dammit, it is the American way, thank god!
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Wait a minute, guys.
In your hast of hate and disgust to see the bad guys punished in this market mess, you are being irrational. There is a lot more at stake here than just bad guys.
Suppose a bunch of bad guys pirated a cruise ship full of guys that weren't part of their badness (does happen fairly and too often, doesn't it) and in the process of their efforts the ship was out to sea when it began to surely sink. If you follow the reasoning I see too many of you jumping on with both feet, in order to assure that the bad guys suffer for their badness, you would disallow anyone coming to the rescue and let all on board drown.
Yes, it is the case that saving the innocent will most likely allow the bad guys to live to steal another day. But, dammit, it is the American way, thank god!
I agree with you but we can't keep bailing out the financil markets or else they will think its ok to fail because Big Brother will step in and pay off their debts so to speak like paying off a loan shark. They will never learn a lesson. The S&L mess of back in the days should of taught them a lesson but obviously it didn't and neither will this sometime in the future however long in the future that will be.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i'm buying a rototiller so i can keep eating
LOL No sh!t......
My buddy and I have started an organic garden thats 20X40 behind both our houses. Figure I'll at least teach my daughter about the fruits of labor.
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quote:Originally posted by Pagan: House of Reps bombed the bailout bill. hence the market crashing. Another lovely day in the US Markets. I wish I had shorted more stocks
I'm getting hammered today as well... but im holding regardless because sooner or later they have to approve some plan and when they do our stronger stocks will recover in our portfolio... me going against my rule of cutting my losses... i am getting especially hammered on a airline stock though... but if oil goes down signficantly for just 2 days that will recover.. we shall see what this week brings....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Maybe a lot of these guys voting and their buddies are playing the market short right now and are going to wait a few days before changing their votes then they will change their buys in the other direction.
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I was thinking 10000 was the bottom of our mess but now with all hope/discouragement/ fear in the markets thanks to our political leaders pulling a Terry Schiavo in the marketplace I think we are gonna dip below 9 before we see solid ground. I believe that even if they end up getting the bill through.
I am happy that it didn't pass first try. People are pissed off and our leaders need to recognize that that still does mean something here.
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posted
I also like the Idea that the FDIC insure up to 1 million instead of $100k. I know some ridicule Cramer but he does make good sense sometimes.
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posted
One thing that i have really come to realize in the last year is that how much money can be made on the big boards with just a little inside information no matter which way the stocks go.
This whole thing sucks for the average person just because our representatives would not manage the store for a lot of years.
We have been talking about this on allstocks for a long time and i am not just talking about today's problem.
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posted
That's true also, but as i watched one station the stock market was about 700 down and as it went back to 500 down the tone changed.
Of course there views have nothing to do with the stock market as they state and as we have seen in the past months the stock market is always an actual indicator of what shape the economy is in.
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posted
777 Points - BIG DEAL!!! I thought the Wall Street crowd said that we were going over a cliff. That would have been about 3,777 points. I've been saying for a long time that the market is irrationally high. I'm still predicting 7,700 on the DOW - for STARTERS!
If we really have a depression, I'm hoping that all these Fatcats on Wall Street that played these huge risks go out of business. I'm also hoping that we get back to reality and understand that we can NOT afford all the entitlements we have promised. Time to take a meat cleaver to those also!!! BACK TO REALITY!
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