posted
Yeah they are pretty much describing each and every one of us. How predictable that the word terrorist's definition seems to be growing as fast as the government's budget...
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sorry, the dude is guilty of being dumb at least: Yeah, he told me that the three-round burst wouldn't work and that it would jam up. Q. Did you know what he meant by "three-round burst"? A. Yeah. Q. What did you take him to mean? A. Three rounds come out of it when you would pull the trigger. Q. When you pull the trigger once? A. Yeah. Q. And when he was telling you this, did he tell you that he had fired it automatically in that three-round burst position and that the gun had jammed on him? A. Yes.
posted
here it is again, the govt relying on a strange twist of interpretation of the law to convict somebody:
this is the US Attorney questioning the defense expert witness: Q. And according to what standard would you disqualify that as a machine gun? Where is the authority for that? A. The ATF. In 1986 they actually issued a safety warning to everybody in the industry and asked that everybody stop using M-16 parts in AR-15 rifles. Q. But you're familiar with the statutory definition of a machine gun, right? A. Yes, I am. And it doesn't say by malfunction, it says by design. That gun is not designed to fire full auto. Q. Doesn't it say any firearm that fires automatically more than one round, single function of a trigger without manual reload? A. Shoots or is designed to shoot. That is not designed to shoot more than one round per function of the trigger. Q. It says "or," right? Shoots or is designed to shoot. A. I don't have -- there's actually six separate definitions, but the bottom line is that is not the frame or receiver of a machine gun, that is not a machine gun, that is a malfunctioning defective weapon. Q. And you're confident making that determination without ever having test fired it yourself. A. After viewing the video and viewing Agent Kingery's first report and his second report -- and since they contradict each other he's got a 50 percent error rate going -- I would not fire that firearm until I took it apart and repaired it.
based on the court testimony? IMO the expert is correct. the gun was malfunctioning. the ATF decided it was not a machine gun on its first test, but then used a different kind of ammo KNOWING the malfunction would cause it to fire multiple times... the guy who ran the test should have been very nervous.
this part would be funny except the guy got convicted for being an idiot: THE COURT: Mr. Olofson, do you understand that as a defendant in this case you have a right to testify? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I do. THE COURT: And do you understand the decision whether or not to testify is yours and yours alone? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Do you wish to avail yourself of the opportunity to testify in this case? THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I do. THE COURT: So you do want to testify. THE DEFENDANT: No, Your Honor. I want to -- I believe you said avail? As far as my understanding the word is excuse myself from it? THE COURT: You want to avail yourself of the right not the testify then. THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir, I do not want to testify. http://www.davidkopel.com/2A/Olofson/2-OLOFSON-trial-TRANSCRIPT.pdf
leave little doubt in my mind that the jury had to convict the guy UNLESS they wanted to use jury nullificatin as an excuse...
here's the law:
Under federal statute, under the statute that Mr. Olofson is charged with violating, Section 922(o) of Title 18, a machine gun is defined as: Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
malfunction not an excuse? sheesh. 33 months for having a gun malfunction...
are you getting nervous yet PM?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
read those transcripts, the ATF didn't care.... they more or less admitted they had no evidence the guy altered the gun himself, they simply showed that he had some literature on the subject.
they didn't even charge the guy with manufacturing a machine gun, or possessing one.
their whole case revolved around the fact that the guy he lent the gun to says he told the guy it would malfunction if he flipped the selector switch to an unmarked position on the receiver.
the guy did it to see what would happen (stupid) and the ATF made their case about the transfer.
there is no doubt in my mind the ATF suspects this guy of something else (illegal dealing in firearms) that they couldn't prove so they went after him on a technically provable charge, that even they admit they had to "gimmick" the gun to make happen..
the ammo they used should not be used in the AR-15 it's bolt action ammo... people do it, and it works, sortof, but it damages the weapons irreversibly. anybody that is into match shooting knows this:
If we are talking about .223 Remington SAAMI-spec chambers in an AR15, OH NO!
Do NOT use such a chambering if you EVER plan on shooting any military NATO 5.56 ammo, which happens to be only the most common, least expensive and most widely used AR15 cartridge available in all the world. In other words, NEVER buy/use a SAAMI-spec chamber in a battle rifle, especially if the barrel and chamber are chromed, as you cannot fix it!
Here's the problem. Many NATO cartridges have bullets that will become jammed into the rifling of a SAAMI chambering (the throat is too short). This is VERY DANGEROUS, for a grat number of reasons.
Fulton Armory uses a "5.56 Match" chambering in its rifles/uppers/barrels (in fact our barrels are marked as such), which is a slightly modified SAAMI chamber with a tad longer throat to accommodate NATO bullets. The Fulton Armory 5.56 Match chamber allows for the safe and reliable use of all SAAMI and NATO ammo, while offering the accuracy potential of the SAAMI chamberings with match commercial cartridges. Remember, there's often a large difference between bolt guns and military rifles. This particularly true for the 5.56 vs .223; Fulton Armory is well known for the finest performance for any given platform, and our 5.56 Match chamber is one way we achieve that performance with the AR-15-type rifle.
it really is that simple. the jury was left with no legit choices but to convict him.
the ATF even challenged a gun manufacturer/designers expert testimony on this exact subject... the ATF "expert" people gave very questionable testimony to obtain the conviction. if the defense had hired an unimpeachable expert? the ATF would have been left looking a bit foolish
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: OK....still not nervous. I think the guy was probably guilty of several things and it came back to bite him. Fine by me.
so you DO beleive in Karma
i'm not particularly upset about this case from what i see. to be honest? the guy could have gotten on the stand and contradicted the accusations by the guy he "loaned" the gun to..
something is fishy about that...
however? i prefer to see the system work the way it is/was designed to work, and not be (ab)used like this, because it is a slippery slope...
just like National Security Letters.. NSL's were designed to make it possible to act quickly in a national security issue? they suddenly became way to easy to use and bypass the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Court. The FBI (according to the GAO) began using the letters too frequently, and since it's illegal to even disclose the use of such a letter? nobody knows if they were/are being abused or not.. creepy huh? not exactly the kind of power a God Loving Christian Conservative would want to see a Billary using to ferret out unpatriotic er i mean un-Democratic er uh Republican operatives huh? LOL... the sword cuts BOTH ways...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
*insert sound of wrists being slapped here*
Mayor: Officers in taped beating will be fired Story Highlights 4 officers to be fired, 2 will be disciplined, supervising sergeant demoted
City officials: Beatings were inexcusable but had nothing to do with race
Suspect's mother says she, attorney not allowed to see suspect after his arrest
Video shows police officers punching, kicking suspects, hitting them with batons
PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Four Philadelphia police officers will be fired, two others will be disciplined and a supervising sergeant will be demoted because of the violent beating of three suspects caught after a shooting, the city's mayor and police commissioner said Monday.
On May 5, a television news helicopter captured footage of more than a dozen predominantly white police officers pulling three African-American men out of a car after a pursuit.
The video footage shows the officers kicking, punching and striking the suspects with batons, while the men lie restrained on the ground.
Two of the men were struck at least 20 times each. Watch the officers pummel the men »
"The video kind of speaks for itself," Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey told WTXF-TV's "Good Day Philadelphia" on May 6.
Ramsey and Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter have said the beatings were inexcusable but had nothing to do with race.
Police identified the three suspects as Dwayne Dyches, 24; Brian Hall, 23; and Pete Hopkins, 19. All were charged with several felonies, including aggravated assault.
The suspects were believed to have been involved in a triple shooting at a street corner, Ramsey said. Of the 19 officers on the scene when the suspects were apprehended, eight had physical contact with them. Upon review, the actions of only two of those eight were deemed within appropriate limits, according to the commissioner.
The other six will be disciplined or dismissed. Although the supervising sergeant on the scene did not have physical contact with any of the suspects, he is being demoted for his failure to intervene or subdue his subordinates, Ramsey said. See the community reaction to the case »
The district attorney's office and the FBI will continue their investigations of the incident, Ramsey said. He also said that an outside group, the Police Executive Research Forum, has been contracted to further review the department's policies and procedures.
Lemoia Dyches, the mother of one of the suspects, told CNN that she was unable to see her son after his arrest. "They wouldn't even permit his attorney to see him," she said. "It strikes me as strange."
The police commissioner initially said that officers had seen the suspects fire shots, injuring three people on a street corner. Three suspects fled the scene in a vehicle, and a fourth -- the shooter -- escaped on foot, Ramsey originally said.
However, media reports this weekend indicate police have changed their account; they now allege Hopkins was the shooter.
Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross, in charge of field operations, told The Philadelphia Inquirer there was confusion during the investigation over whether the gunman fled or returned to the vehicle.
"We certainly believe based on police witness accounts that four people drive up," Ross told the newspaper. "Then three people get back in the car and drive off."
The gunman, Ross said, got back in the car. Police told the Inquirer they are still seeking a fourth suspect.
Ramsey said the police force has been under stress since Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski was shot and killed with an assault rifle May 3 while responding to a bank robbery. One suspect in that shooting was killed by police in the confrontation, and another has been apprehended. A third suspect is at large.
Authorities want to know whether the officers' emotions over Liczbinski's death -- and their desire to apprehend the suspect who remains at large -- had a role in their actions.
Stress levels among officers on the street are "simply too high," and the department aims to eliminate 12-hour shifts, Ramsey said soon after the incident.
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: OK....still not nervous. I think the guy was probably guilty of several things and it came back to bite him. Fine by me.
ummm.. so it doesn't really matter what they convict him of as long as someone has a hunch he did something wrong.. at some point. So now there is no burden of proof.. just he mighta done something.. we're not sure what so... send him to jail anyways. Makes sense.
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quote:ummm.. so it doesn't really matter what they convict him of as long as someone has a hunch he did something wrong.. at some point.
I didn't say that. He was tried and convicted. It sounds to me like he might have been guilty of quite a few things and may not have been charged with the worst of them. At any rate, justice appears to have been done and the criminal is going to jail.
If you've got a problem with this trial, then do something about it. Send money to his appeal fund. Make a protest sign and let the authorities know how you feel.
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posted
At any rate, justice appears to have been done and the criminal is going to jail.
did you even read the transcripts?
the ATF admitted in court that the gun DID not fire as machine gun on the first test. they ran a second test with different ammo several months later at the SPECIAL request of the investigating agent. this is not normally done...
the guy who "borrowed" the gun gave conflicting statements about whether he had been told it would "misfire" or not...
i stated MY SUSPICION that he might be illegally selling guns, but i've never seen it printed anywhere else... i was simply stating a GUESS.. you don't convict people on my guesses.. you collect evidence.
the guy should have gotten on the stand and testified.
my guess is that he'll get this overturned on appeal if he can get an appeal...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:ummm.. so it doesn't really matter what they convict him of as long as someone has a hunch he did something wrong.. at some point.
I didn't say that. He was tried and convicted. It sounds to me like he might have been guilty of quite a few things and may not have been charged with the worst of them. At any rate, justice appears to have been done and the criminal is going to jail.
If you've got a problem with this trial, then do something about it. Send money to his appeal fund. Make a protest sign and let the authorities know how you feel.
So he should be convicted of something else because you think it sounds like he did something... maybe?? Saying it twice won't make me miss it... On a different note, and directed towards someone else....
Glass, I know now for certain that a democrat will be elected. Doesn't really matter which one, but it will most certainly be a democrat. Bush get's elected and the net is almost instantly over run with bleeding heart party line liberals... who could not win an argument. Bush's term is up and all of a sudden the net is gathering more and more party line "conservatives"... who can't win an argument. It's almost as if it's the same people.. just different angle.. Almost scripted.
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quote:So he should be convicted of something else because you think it sounds like he did something... maybe?? Saying it twice won't make me miss it...
Then, let's try a third time. The guy was tried and found guilty. Justice was served. I don't think he needs to be tried on anything else, that's probably good enough.
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posted
May 22, 2008 Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids
An appeals court has ruled that Texas had no right to seize hundreds of children from polygamous sect.
Earlier, it was reported that half the mothers from a polygamist sect that Texas child welfare authorities put in foster care as children have now been declared adults.
Attorneys for Child Protective Services say 15 of the 31 mothers are adults. One is actually 27.
Another girl listed as an underage mother is 14, but the state has conceded she is not pregnant and does not have a child.
The underage mothers had been cited as evidence that the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints committed widespread sexual abuse of girls.
State officials raided a ranch run by a polygamist sect in west Texas. Their contention that abuse was widespread led to the removal of more than 460 children.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
duh! The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law.
i wonder how much more this witchhunt is going to cost the taxpayers of Texas(it's already cost alot)
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: yesterday, a news story said "Senate considers seizing assets" to pay for caring for the kids...
yah, all gov'ts (local, state and Fed) are always looking for excuses to seize assets of citizens.. sometimes they are right and sometimes they aren't...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by T e x: yesterday, a news story said "Senate considers seizing assets" to pay for caring for the kids...
yah, all gov'ts (local, state and Fed) are always looking for excuses to seize assets of citizens.. sometimes they are right and sometimes they aren't...
Well they say everything is bigger in Texas (at least Texans say that), I guess that includes screw ups!
LOL, sorry Tex. I couldn't resist
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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On the one hand, I *can't* imagine what those folks were thinking when they decided to move to rural West Texas: a Saudi oil sheik would've fitted in more easily. Then? reports of older guys being forced onto under-age girls? Why not just have a fireworks show in a hay barn?
On the other hand, the state most certainly could have handled it better than shipping everybody hither and yon. Seems like the majority could have been reunited with their mothers within a week or so, tops...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: well, it's a clusterphuk...for sure.
On the one hand, I *can't* imagine what those folks were thinking when they decided to move to rural West Texas: a Saudi oil sheik would've fitted in more easily. Then? reports of older guys being forced onto under-age girls? Why not just have a fireworks show in a hay barn?
On the other hand, the state most certainly could have handled it better than shipping everybody hither and yon. Seems like the majority could have been reunited with their mothers within a week or so, tops...
Yep....a sad situation all around
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:If it isn't good that everyone apparently gets to choose for themselves what is right...then who gets to choose?
Maybe the sect decided that polygamy was right. Maybe they decided that having sex with 14 year old girls was right. I thought everyone got to choose for themselves what is right? Now you can see how utterly ridiculous this argument is!!!
Why should gays be allowed to get married but not one man with 20 women in the sect? How about 2 women, 3 men and a small goat? Why not? With you Godless socialists, everyone gets to choose what's right for them - right?
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posted
Why should gays be allowed to get married but not one man with 20 women in the sect? How about 2 women, 3 men and a small goat? Why not? With you Godless socialists, everyone gets to choose what's right for them - right?
no proof, just rumor...
seems there's no proof about any of it...
and goats are nasty...
i never could figure out why polygamy is illegal... i asked my wife if she knew why? i had to movein with no-nobadddog and i'm still scratchin' fleas a week later
good thing i have wireless huh?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Why should gays be allowed to get married but not one man with 20 women in the sect? How about 2 women, 3 men and a small goat? Why not? With you Godless socialists, everyone gets to choose what's right for them - right?
no proof, just rumor...
seems there's no proof about any of it...
and goats are nasty...
i never could figure out why polygamy is illegal... i asked my wife if she knew why? i had to movein with no-nobadddog and i'm still scratchin' fleas a week later
good thing i have wireless huh?
Jeeze I can barely tolerate one... Imagine five or six? I'd sooner take the goat.
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