posted
When you are talking about corporate America you must also talk about executive compensations.
Executive compensation has been appreciating at an average of 10% or more per year for the last two decades.
Just take the S&P 500 for instance...in 2006 the average compensation for a CEO of one of these companies was 15.6 Million.
Does this sound like sustainable economics to you?
And PM, you are still making the mistake of believing that cheap = good. That position is going to take a beating over the next decade as folks continue to start realizing exactly what else "cheap" equals.
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posted
so a guy makes 15.6 million while the median household income is: In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201.00.[3] The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036.
that guy is making more in one day than the median household makes in year.( based on working 300 days, or 6 days a week )
and more in one day than for 2 years per household member based on the same number of days(including all working and non-working members above the age of 14)
socialism is inevitable in this scenario because the simple fact is that none of us peasants can afford to pay all the bills... the wealthy drive the prices beyond our means constantly. Look at what happened thru deregulation of nat gas and electricity pricing. it did not increase competition as advertised, the exact opposite happened.
i don't know how anybody can actually run a 4 person household on 48,000 per year. i feel wealthy when i read these numbers, and i am not wealthy by any common measure of the term.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The problem is not with the corporations, but rather with the fact that we are now in a global economy. Now that the cork is out of the bottle, it will be very difficult to get it back in, but the global economy is the big problem.
How are American Corporations going to compete with Chinese companies that are paying their workers just a few dollars per day? They can't. Therefore, our products are no longer competitive. How are we going to change that short of isolationism? We aren't. In addition, the wacko left has pushed so many regulations and taxes, that these adverse factors are also pushing American manufacturing overseas.
Socialism does not work. It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. If you take away the incentive to work hard and innovate, people won't do it. I know I wouldn't.
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posted
"How are American Corporations going to compete with Chinese companies that are paying their workers just a few dollars per day?"
The answer is quite simple. First, stop emptying the corporate treasury to the uppermost level paychecks and second get some new thinking to replace the 19th century stagnation that is there now making millions a year and get over the idea that we can still out produce the rest of the world in industries we forced them to learn and modernize in order to get out from under our economic thumb. There is industry that is not mining coal, drilling for oil, building automobiles, or smelting iron and they are NOT "service industries".
Put a couple of billion into research and development of hydrogen power, making certain none of it goes to huge corporations that only send what is left of it, after they pay their officers some sinful amount, offshore and is put in the hands of thinkers rather than business minds. Then put another couple of billion into building an infrastructure (not by corporations, they only will design it to feather their own nest) to provide it. Do that now, not later and wew can spend the following century supplying the fruits of that investment to the rest of the world and training them how to use it. wait and someone else will do it and they will be selling it to us.
There is no future for the U.S. in maintaining a 19th century industrial philosophy and economic structure. In order to stay on top, we have to get over corporate control of industry of all kinds and operate our economy so as to provide the best benefits for all of our people, not the rich. Money invested MUST NOT be doled out in irrational sums to the "captains of industry" any more, because they no longer think of themselves as operating in an American economy , but in a global one and their monies are no longer here to benefit our population.. They have their money offshore, so they don't even pay taxes on vast portions of their income now.....income that comes from being American and being given protections by our Government. They are not sharing the load and will not if not forced to!
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posted
"Socialism does not work. It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. "
That's BS. I suppose you are going to cite examples to try and make that argument. For every failed socialistic system, there must be hundreds or thousands of failed non-socialist systems. I point out that MOST capitalistic governments have failed throughout history and a far greater rate of percentage than socialistic governments.
Then there is this nonsense:
"If you take away the incentive to work hard and innovate, people won't do it. I know I wouldn't."
Extrapolating from your selfish and arrogant attitude and definition of "incentive to work" to the general population is cheap and simple minded. Do you really believe Albert Einstein or Harry Truman worked with any intent toward becoming financially wealthy? How very stupid! And anyone with even the least grain of intellect knows without measuring them that the amount and difficulty of the work those men had the incentive to do in a year makes the total of any effort you will have put out in your entire lifetime look like a joke.
Actually, when everything is considered, you saying " I know I wouldn't" have any "incentive" to work doesn't mean so much as a hill of beans in this world's benefits, as you won't add much if anything of value and you will hoard all of it you could amass. The "wackos" you detest so much don't much need you or your backward ideas and certainly aren't hampered by your loss or the loss of your ideas. They've been getting along without you for a century or more.
Truthfully, when it comes to "incentive to work" you haven't got a clue, let alone any answer.
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posted
In order to stay on top, we have to get over corporate control of industry of all kinds and operate our economy so as to provide the best benefits for all of our people, not the rich.
Tell me how that is not socialism. You say you're not a socialist, but then do everything to promote it. Why can't the left just say what they believe? Instead of all the 3rd grade insults and bullying, why not just tell us what YOU believe and how YOU think we should solve these problems. You don't like my ideas, but at least I will say what I believe. You, on the other hand, either don't have an idea or won't say what it is. Why?
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posted
I recently heard somewhere, Bush proposed to Iraq's government that they break down the Iraqi oil profits, and distribute them to each Iraqi. They rejected the idea, but does that make Bush a socialist Prop?
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posted
No one can tell you anything, I've noticed, particularly about social and economic and governmental concerns, as you are stuck deeply about 2/3rds of the way through the 19th century.
You clearly have no idea what capitalism or socialism or communism or democracy or fascism or mysticism or hedonism is or that each is independent of each of the others.
I am no more required to provide a solution to such problems, in order for those problems to exist, than you are for finding a solution to the problem of which non-separating planer continua have the fixed point property, in order that that be a problem.
So get over the notion that you may require me to provide you with a solution at all, and certainly get over the idea that I can provide you with a solution your 19th century mentality can fathom or accept.
I grant that you are not prone to "3rd grade insults and bullying". No, yours are a couple of grades below that......first grade or maybe kindergarten insulting and bullying is the tool you resort to when trying to justify your meanness and bigotry.
Calling people and their ideas "wacko" and "leftest" and "socialist" and so on isn't an argument or a justification of your views, it is simply vulgar and childish.
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posted
Six paragraphs to say absolutely nothing. Again, I challenge you to tell us what YOU believe.
In order to stay on top, we have to get over corporate control of industry of all kinds and operate our economy so as to provide the best benefits for all of our people, not the rich.
Again, that is socialism. Plain and simple.
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True socialism means everyone gets an equal share. Everyone in the community has an equal voice on what the community invests in.
This is not possible in the real world.
Realistic socialism is having one group at the top dolling out all goods. There is no oversight and it sets up an elite that has no rules. It is this class of people that undermined the democratic effort in Russia by believing they were above the rules and turning into an expansive mafia type organization. Putin is not far removed from this type of person. Russia is growing strong now due to the fact that he has taken over the energy sector to support government spending and economic growth. It isn't sustainable though. One big disruption to oil production in Russia will have a resounding effect to their entire economy. Just watch. It'll happen eventually.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that we should be moving towards a true socialistic economy. Indeed I think the majority of us "leftist wackos" are against any elite class from gaining too much power. Special skills should be rewarded. Innovation should be rewarded. Advancement should be the goal of our government and our economic leaders.
We aren't seeing that in our current economy. We are seeing titles being rewarded regardless of production. We are seeing innovation being stifled and actively fought against in the political arena to maintain the status quo. In short, short term interests are derailing long term growth.
As our economy grows so to should the base of what the 'everyman' should be able to expect from living in the richest nation in the world. That isn't happening.
We aren't saying be socialist (I and the others here aren't naive enough to believe that the true form of socialism is possible) but we are saying 'grow sustainably'. Invest in the base of the economy and the whole of the pyramid gets a boost. Invest only on the top and you create a elite class that will make our democracy nothing more than a puppet show.
BF
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: The problem is not with the corporations, but rather with the fact that we are now in a global economy. Now that the cork is out of the bottle, it will be very difficult to get it back in, but the global economy is the big problem.
How are American Corporations going to compete with Chinese companies that are paying their workers just a few dollars per day? They can't. Therefore, our products are no longer competitive. How are we going to change that short of isolationism? We aren't. In addition, the wacko left has pushed so many regulations and taxes, that these adverse factors are also pushing American manufacturing overseas.
Socialism does not work. It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. If you take away the incentive to work hard and innovate, people won't do it. I know I wouldn't.
the global economy is to blame now?
LOL...
there's these things we call import tarrifs. they work, and they are not isolationism.
this is a "buzzword" that is being heavily misused in order to promote the destruction of our economy for the benefit of the upper 1/2 of 1%.
the Chinese people are not who we US citizens are competing against..
in almost every single instance? we individuals are competing directly against a foreign government.
yet you blame OUR government for being too strict? what a paradox.
we are now seeing foreign state owned companies buying into american business, and our politicians are encouraging it for their personal profit.
you call that Capitalism?
that is socialism and it's being perpetrated on US.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
There is one way to look at it Propertymanager, if the economy keeps going the way it is, you will have a lot more families to rent your apartments to.
posted
"True socialism means everyone gets an equal share. Everyone in the community has an equal voice on what the community invests in."
Yes, and that last part guarantees that it would be a pure democracy (not a republic, which does not guarantee pure democracy), a fact that seems to escape the minds of the right.
Anyone that has ever actually read Marx learns first and foremost, he never envisioned such a system actually being put in place, because it can't work in a real world. He called it a utopia, not a goal.
Those that blame Marx for communism and socialism are really fools that don't bother to look beyond the surface and see that Marx was not suggesting, he was trying to teach man the lessons of refusing get along and work together. That some simple minded misunderstood and tried to make the impossible come to pass only points out the danger of accepting things that seem to offer easy solutions. (Stated in another way, why spend wasteful energy in competition if it can be saved by cooperation, i.e, work together....)
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posted
In addition, the wacko left has pushed so many regulations
this part really is propaganda too..
here's where i see all the really problematic regualtions coming from:
big business out to stunt the growth of small business.
what's the MOST "regulated" and "left leaning" state in the Union?
California... California is by itself the 7th largest economy in the world...
most of the regualations out there that i "ran into" were about meeting earthquake codes and other environmental quality standards..
do you know who was going to get all of my money if i started up my studio out there?
Engineering firms. engineers tend to be pretty "right minded" people in my experience...
in the end? most of our regulations are designed to SAVE us all money in the long run, but most of the regualtions that end up being passed into law FAVOR big businesses..
not only are the engineering firms raking it in over regulations? the other glass blowers would lobby their town councils to ban any more studios in several of the communities where they already were. and they succeeded in several towns...
i hate not being able to eat the fish caught locally. they are all poisoned because of lack of proper regulations in farming practices...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
there's these things we call import tarrifs. they work, and they are not isolationism.
this is a "buzzword" that is being heavily misused in order to promote the destruction of our economy for the benefit of the upper 1/2 of 1%. the Chinese people are not who we US citizens are competing against..in almost every single instance? we individuals are competing directly against a foreign government. yet you blame OUR government for being too strict? what a paradox. we are now seeing foreign state owned companies buying into american business, and our politicians are encouraging it for their personal profit.
I agree with that. It is a paradox. Our corporations and people are competing in large part with foreign state owned companies (socialist and communist) who are virtually paying their people slave wages. In addition, our companies are subject to all kinds of laws (environmental, safety, tax, etc) that the state owned companies are not subject to. We are at a HUGE competitive disadvantage.
Of course, they are buying up American businesses (key businesses). They're awash in US Dollars that are increasingly worth less and less. Something has got to change.
Tariffs are fine with me, but I believe that will just start a trade war that we can't win. We're the ones that need their products, not vice versa.
Could we go back to being economically isolationist? I doubt it. That would probably be best for our jobs but it would be extremely difficult.
It's either that or we get lean and mean and compete with their low wages and lack of regulation.
posted
China is quickly becoming a toxic waste dump..
their lack of regulation will cost them for generations to come..
PETS, FOOD SAFETY, CHINA, THE FDA, AND YOUR HEALTH
By Byron J. Richards, CCN
April 5, 2007
NewsWithViews.com
Americans are up in arms that our pets are being injured and killed by a toxin sent to America by a Chinese company. Melamine, a toxic fertilizer used in China, is the suspected culprit behind the deaths and injuries to potentially hundreds of thousands of our pets. The FDA assures us that this toxin has not entered the human food supply – does anyone believe in the competence of the FDA? It is only a matter of time before this type of problem happens to humans, as the inept FDA has no control over imported food intended for humans, let alone pets.
Melamine was used to help grow wheat, a practice that is legal in China and illegal in the U.S. This poison ended up in wheat gluten used as a protein source and thickening agent in pet food. Why were all these pet food companies, many claiming to be producers of fine quality pet food, buying wheat gluten from China when the U.S. is one of the top producers of wheat in the world? These companies sacrificed the health of your pet to make a profit, buying the cheapest source of wheat gluten they could find. This is the new way of the global economy, find the cheapest price and forget about health implications.
all that lead in their paint will insure that they have long term health problems too...
this is merely the tip of the iceberg...
they had a sulfuric acid spill in the Imperial Grand Canal a couple years back that was equivalent to the Exxon Valdez in stupidity and breathtaking eco-damage...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I have never cared for the Clintons. I have never been foaming at the mouth about them like Newt Gringrich wanted us GOP's to be, but i disagree fundamentally with most of their policy making decisions. I do respect their ability to hire the best and the brightest people tho (specifically in contrast to Dubya)..
this weekend/past week? the Clinton's have unveiled a very bad strategy of attacking Obamma. I see them twisting/spinnning the truth so bad that they deserve to be called to the mat by their own party. it isn't that they shouldn't attack him, it's how they are doing it. they are endangering their own party. why am i not surprised.
Hillary refused to answer Tim Russerts questions directly on Sunday. He tried to pin her down on her votes FOR the Iraq war, but she just kept spinning her excuses.
keep in mind that Billary moved to NY only because they could put Hillary on the ticket to run for Senate there because NY has the only residency law in the US that would allow her to do it...
i assume she was still an Arkansas resident when they left the White House, but NY had changed their law years ago to allow somebody else to "carpetbag" into their state...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
my already high respect for Tim Russert went up immensely from this interview.
can you imagine having a former President mad at you?
you dems need to consider very carefully how much pressure an ex-President can bring to bear on individual journalists and their editors. IMO? you dems are making a suicidal decision putting her in the race. Obamma and Edwards can beat anybody in the race except maybe Huckabee. i think he could possibly beat everybody if he gets the nod. simply because he'll take the middle with pure charm. Hillary IMO, will not get more than 49% of the US vote, too many already dissatisfied GOPs will make a point of coming out to vote against her. The middle will split apart again. just like Rove did it in the last two elections? she will do it, and she is doing it to your party right now.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
IMHO I just would like to see somebody eles besides a Clinton or a Bush this time if Hillary wins it will be at least 24 years between the two families
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I agree with Glass...I don't believe Billary can win. The conservatives despise the Clintons and there are a lot of dems that won't for her either. I too believe that Obama/Edwards have the best chance to beat the GOP...but Huckabee could pull it off because he will get the majority of the middle.
I still like Ron Paul the most...It's funny though, I took a drive up north last week and counted 7 yard signs for Ron Paul and not one for any of the other candidates dem or rep...and Michigan is pretty much a liberal state...
every time they mention his name they snicker. or chuckle as if we are crazy...
what was it prop man said? globalisation is inevitable? only because people just like the Clintons and the Bush's are gonna keep pushing it thru..
remember, Bill signed George the Firsts NAFTA bill... NAFTA didn't do anything that was promised by the politician that pushed it thru, as a matter of fact, it's done just what H Ross Perot said it would do...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The media crushes everything at some point Glass!!
Here is an e-mail I received tonight crushing Obama.
Sorry if its already been discussed.
Subject: Obama and the Democratic Party
Obama is supposed to be the candidate to bring us all together. Click on the web sight of his church and look at its list of vision priorities. If a white candidate belonged to a church for whites only and placed allegiance to Europe over that of the US, it would be a constant topic in the press until he was driven out of the campaign. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the only viable candidates for President in the democratic party are Obama and Clinton! What has happened to the party of Truman, Kennedy, and Roosevelt?
Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It's the Trinity United Church of Christ. I found this interesting. In fact, I found it SCARY! Obama's church: Please read and go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!!! Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former?) Muslim upbringing. Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church! And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith,even today. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa! I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary.< BR> Click on the link below: This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to: www.tucc.org/about.htm
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posted
OK, i just got to use the the newest Deibold machine. no lines.
it (apparently) gave me the "option" of printing my votes before they were actually cast. the receipt is recaptured on another roll and maintained in the machine.
this should not be an option. i was able to view a printout similar to a cash register receipt and that did match my votes. however, since it was an option that would seem to mean not all the votes are being printed.
it is possible, that it would have printed it out after i cast it, but i don't know...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
There was no backup. paper or otherwise, where I voted.
That means that, in event of a power surge or other event or if there is hanky panky (I voted for Obama in a heavy republican district), there will be no way to know if I did or didn't vote or for whom and my vote for sales of booze in restaurants will not count.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: you in a dry county bdgee? are y'all 'lowed to brown bag at the restaurant?
Wet or dry here goes by precinct, not county. And some counties may be "wet" only with respect to sales in grocery stores or liquor stores or maybe in resturants, but only with a meal.
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