posted
CBS/AP) The Marine Corps is pushing to redeploy its forces from Iraq to Afghanistan to take the lead in combat operations there and essentially leave Iraq to the Army, The New York Times reported Thursday.
The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway, raised the issue with Defense Secretary Robert Gates last week, the Times reported. Senior military and Pentagon officials said supporters of the proposal, including some in the Army, believe that such a realignment could allow both services to operate more efficiently in the face of strains on the separate forces.
No major Marine units are among the 26,000 U.S. forces in Afghanistan while 25,000 Marines are among the 160,000 U.S. troops there, the paper noted.
Army and Pentagon leaders have warned repeatedly that the long, deadly and repeated deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched and stressed the Army, its soldiers and its families nearly to the breaking point. And there has been ongoing debate about how the service should transform itself to better meet the challenges of future wars.
At a news conference in London, Gates played down the talk about the Marines leaving Iraq.
"I had heard that they were beginning to think about that, and that's all that I've heard," Gates said. "I've seen no plan. No one has come to me with any proposals about it. My understanding is that it's, at this point, extremely preliminary thinking on the part of perhaps the staff in the Marine Corps. But I don't think at this point it has any stature."
Gates also said he is comfortable with Britain's decision to halve its troop levels in Iraq by spring, saying the plan had been worked out jointly with U.S. commanders.
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From what i have read about the two combat zones if i were a Marine i would prefer serving in Afghanistan rather than Iraq.
I had never thought about the amount of Marines in Iraq as far as their numbers compared to other branches of the service. I had assumed that the Marines had a higher number of troops in Iraq than they do. Maybe it's because in Southern Ca. we see the Camp Pendleton casualities more.
I would guess the percentage of Marines that are in combat(infantry etc.) are more than the other branches. (as opposed to support troops)
Which service has the higher percentage of reservists in Iraq? I would say the Army.
Bottom line it doesn't really matter which branch of service has more troops in Iraq (Generals can argue over that) what really matters is all those casualties and deaths that will take its toll on families for generations to come. It will be nice when that direct number reaches 0.
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Yah true IWish... but me just saying that we should of concentrated more in Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda/Bin Laden etc. are based... They were/are more of a threat... but 0 casualities is preferable though not reality in guerrilla type of warfare...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
I was referring to not being in Iraq at all with the 0 number, i was just saying it in a round about way.
There seems to be a lot of different opinions about what the best strategy is in Afghanistan. I think sometimes we are chasing our own tails in that country. My opinion is that we could reduce the forces there and have more special teams trained specifically for that area. By reducing forces we free up extra cash and we buy some good informants.
If they tick us off enough we can always burn down their opium fields, that will cut back on the terrorist bankrolls. Afghanistan is number 1 in the world for opium, that's always been interesting to me since we have a fair amount of troops in that country. I think we have to cut off this lifeline from the terrorists (opium trade)in order to get to them in any major way.
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I agree, Persia, but, then, I keep hearing a nagging query way in the back of my mind wanting to know exactly what is "the job in Afghanistan" and what does "finish" mean.
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Bin Laden dead or captured or proven that he has been dead or inactive in decisions in Al Quaeda for some time... as well as destroying what is left of Al Quaeda in Afghanistan as well as their financial resources... that pretty much sums it up...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
how about changing the title of this thread to the Marines have wiped out Al-Queda in Iraq... cuz they were finally given the green light to do so and now they wanna go wipe out alqueda in Afghanistan... and get this war over with.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Al-Qaeda In Iraq Reported Crippled Many Officials, However, Warn Of Its Resilience
By Thomas E. Ricks and Karen DeYoung Washington Post Staff Writers Monday, October 15, 2007; Page A01
The U.S. military believes it has dealt devastating and perhaps irreversible blows to al-Qaeda in Iraq in recent months, leading some generals to advocate a declaration of victory over the group, which the Bush administration has long described as the most lethal U.S. adversary in Iraq.
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Yes, they want to declare victory in Iraq long enough before the next presidential election for the people to be so glad it is over that they can use the resulting "warm fuzzies" from that to marshal forces for the invasion of Iran.
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a good point was brought up by IWISHIHAD the opium trade: a few months ago i saw a quasi-documentary about how the war on terror was more about drug smuggling by the CIA than about terrorists. in doing a little back digging i found that since the US invasion opium production has been at never before seen levels! one report said a 3200% increase since the US invasion. mildly interesting.
interesting tidbit i didnt know so i'll share. in may of 2001 Bush granted the taliban 43 million dollars for its success in stopping opium production. even more interesting.
quote:The Bush administration has decided not to destroy the opium crop in Afghanistan. President Bush, who previously linked the Afghan drug trade directly to terrorism, has now decided not to destroy the Afghan opium crop.
"The war in Afghanistan will be decided within the next six weeks based on whether or not the poppy crops go to market," stated a U.S. intelligence official who recently returned from Afghanistan.
The source, who requested that he not be identified, noted that the opium poppy fields are blooming and ready for harvest. U.S. forces could destroy the crops using aerial spraying techniques, but no such actions are planned.
"If the estimated 3,000 tons of opium reaches market, it will lead to a new upsurge in international terrorism and a great loss in international credibility for the Bush administration and the United States' ability to conduct war in the 21st century.
even more interesting is the large quantity of opium druglords now in the US's puppet regime Afghanistan. Sounds to me like things are working out just fine for the CIA.. opps i mean afghani drug lords http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0513/p01s04-wosc.html?s=spworld
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930
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Is the enormous Bush family financial conglomerate invested in opium in some way, directly or indirectly, and if so, how deeply?
Perhaps it is a lot like dubya's interest in forcing schools to administer standardized test to children. Sounds to many that he wants to assure the quality of education and that is his claim. But then he has side stepped every opportunity to even minimally support it with the financing for the schools and the states to pay for his mandated testing.
Then one learns that the Bush family financial conglomerate essentially, via several effectively foreign companies (mostly under management by dubya's older brother and paying no U.S. taxes) dominates and virtually controls commercial standardized testing through the free world. The Bush family financial conglomerate makes a profit on each standardized test it sells to those schools and states. Millions of standardized test amounts to a huge profit for the family and the money comes from the pockets of the local tax payer, the little guy, because the very wealthy and huge corporations pay very little local taxes (they take money from local treasuries to pay corporations to build or stay in facilities, maybe football stadia, maybe factories, maybe buildings housing hundreds or thousands of telemarketing stations, then further guarantee they will recieve tax abatements thereafter). (Another scheme to transfer wealth from lower income people to the pockets of the wealthy that can then be hidden from taxes in off shore banks and investments?)
Oil is not the only commodity that makes the very wealthy and privileged be the very wealthy and privileged and is not the only very wealthy special interest group that dubya's efforts have favored over the welfare of the Nation and its people.
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What about the crazy ayatollahs in Iran? Hezbollah? Hamas?
It's not yet over man... _________________________________________________
I thought that's what we went over to Iraq for?(Saddam, Al-Qaeda) I forgot we also got the weapons of mass destruction.
We thought we could change this thread title here since we believe everything we are being told. It seems like there is always a reason to stay in Iraq depending on what our government wants us to believe.
The majority of americans at this point will let the government believe we believe them if it means getting our troops out of Iraq. Most of us do not need a good reason stated to see all the troops coming home. Most politicians seem to need a good reason in their minds to bring them home.(winning the war)
As far as Iran and other Mideast countries go, just seems like more American body bags will need to be sent and more shattered lives at home. I think we need a better plan than we had in Iraq or Vietnam if we are going to take on another war.
Unfortunately it probably does not matter what most americans think about another war.
I would like to hear from the majority of serviceman that have been fighting in Iraq. I wonder what they think about an invasion of Iran or another mideast country. How many of those troops would want to do it again the way it has been done in Iraq? They could give us a true picture of the war not the one we read or hear about many times.
Persia, I was not kidding, i was being being sarcastic, i cannot think of a better word other than maybe sick. How many lives are being wasted at this point while our politicians play games instead of doing what they should have done a long time ago. I sure hope that some good comes out of all this mess for the sake of these soldiers and their families.
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quote:Originally posted by cottonjim: bdgeesuschrist, invested in opium???? You gotta be kidding me. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull sh*t.
No, cj, I am not kidding.
I wasn't kidding when I said before the Iraq invasion that Bush wasn't telling us facts about Iraq and Saddam, but you continued long after to insisted that to suggest we weren't getting facts was silly, just as you do about any question what-so-ever of dubya's slackness where vorasity is paramount.
How long did you go about telling us that Bush had secret information of the details of the WMDs in Iraq and you railed that any suggestion dubya or his cohearts would be shading the truth was absurd. Then followed with remarks that were nothing more than attempts to belittle the honor and character of those not sucking the far right wing evangelical sugar teat.
How is it you like to carry on with it? Oh, yeah, with attempts at ridiculing such as saying, "You gotta be kidding me. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull sh*t", which is exactly what you try to do, "baffle 'em with bull sh*t" rather than presenting any evidence......just insulting ridicule and BS.
Well, I'm not baffled. I have seen that it is never what dubya says it is, it is always some scheme to squeeze money out of those that aren't among the vastly wealthy and funnel it eventually to the pockets of the wealthy or it is some effort to undermine the Constitution, making it even easier to transfer wealth to the privileged. If he's not batting 1000, his batting average is very very close to it.
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If those poppy fields are only protected to help locals (one argument for not destoying them) it seems it would be a lot cheaper and a lot more beneifical to our fight against terrorists to just pay everyone in the country a subsidy to not grow opium or just destroy the fields as needed.(since the locals will already be paid)
Maybe we could help the afghanistan people by offering more medical assistance so their child mortality rate changes.
The population of Afghanistan is not very large and i do not think most of their people are receiving much money(if any) from the opium trade. (3 billion dollars a year)
Things do not add up to me why these fields are not being destoyed if they are aiding the enemy.
I suspect that maybe some americans might be profiting a bit from those fields, but maybe that's just my suspicious nature.
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anybody remember the golden triangle from the days of Nam?
or Air America?
i suspect the KGB (or whatever they have become now) is in "the game" too...
they were then...
don't forget Ollie North and the Contra's... suddenly cocaine became king?
when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? Afghan hashish was all over the US....
and Soviet troops: AFGHANISTAN'S OTHER FRONT: A WORLD OF DRUGS By ARTHUR BONNER, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan use drugs extensively, and some Russians sell gasoline, ammunition and stolen guns to support their habits, according to several Russian defectors living with Afghan rebels. In addition, several rebel commanders say that they have captured Russians while the soldiers were drugged or while they were trying to buy hashish or heroin from village merchants. According to Western diplomats and analysts of the Afghan situation in Pakistan and elsewhere, Russian troops in... November 2, 1985
posted
Air America was a good movie. Robert Downey Jr. plays a great part but likes that drug to much that he was transporting in the movie.
I imagine there are a few american soldiers that like their duty in Afghanistan to much. Not that there were any soldiers in Vietnam that liked their duty in areas like Saigon.
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what i could never figger out is which side which in this crap... i've always assumed that the "playa's" are not working under direct orders, but have general non-specific orders that allow some "immunity" to do whatever they please...
it's the same in Iraq, only the prize is oil...
i believe there are factions in Iraq that are more or less US, but their goal is not to win the war at all...
oil goes up every time "instability" is in the news.. that's not a coincidence...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Yes $3.10 a gallon for regular and rising. It must be nice to be at the right end of that business.
Takes a lot of manipulating and money. That's why they call them the Oil Cartel. Seems to be different cartels, ones that operate legally and ones that operate illegally. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference.
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We would have been out of Iraq long ago had Clinton kept his promises.........Someone HAD to be the one to make the right call and that was our beloved president Bush....
The Clinton's
Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Selective Service Number 326 46 228. Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964 Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968. Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969. Bill Clinton refuses to report and is not inducted into the military.
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969, under authority of Col. E. Holmes. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969 as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) registrant who has failed to report...remain liable for induction.
Bill Clinton's birthdate lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction is INELIGIBLE!
Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.
Bill married Hillary Rodham, who couldn't pass the bar exam in Mass., but did pass it in Arkansas ?????
Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice.
Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21,1977 from President Carter.
Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President of the United States.
All these facts come from Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and various books that have been published, and have never been refuted by Clinton.
After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 2000 bomb ing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors. Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.
If Clinton had kept those promises, 3,000+ people in New York and Washington, DC that are now dead would be alive today.
AN INTERESTING QUESTION: This question was raised on a Philly radio call-in show.
There are two men, both extremely wealthy. One develops relatively cheap software and gives billions of dollars to charity. The other sponsors terrorism. That being the case, why was it that the Clinton Administration spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the eight years in office, than chasing down Osama bin Laden?
It is a strange turn of events. Hillary gets more than $8 Million for her forthcoming memoir. Bill gets over $12 Million for his memoir yet to be written. Their blind trust is estimated to be more than $25 million. This from two people who spent 8 years being unable to recall anything about past events while under oath.
Sincerely,
Cdr. Hamilton McWhorter USN (ret)
I don't want this woman to even THINK about running for president. I don't want these people back in the White House!
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surfer, you are afflicted with a subminiscule mentality.
There is no one to blame for the mess this nation has made of the world but mental snow flakes that put that demented draft dodging pervert in office, then pray to and worship the republican gods of war, like still blind little puppy dogs do their mama's teats.
I doubt you have ever had an independent thought. Come to think of it, that is assured, as thinking (not to mention acting on one's own) is reviled by the right-wing.
Wasn't this a thread about Marines wanting to go to Afganistan and fight AlQaeda (where they should have been doing that all along)?
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: surfer, you are afflicted with a subminiscule mentality.
There is no one to blame for the mess this nation has made of the world but mental snow flakes that put that demented draft dodging pervert in office, then pray to and worship the republican gods of war, like still blind little puppy dogs do their mama's teats.
I doubt you have ever had an independent thought. Come to think of it, that is assured, as thinking (not to mention acting on one's own) is reviled by the right-wing.
Wasn't this a thread about Marines wanting to go to Afganistan and fight AlQaeda (where they should have been doing that all along)?
Wouldn't expect anything less from you...GL
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Interesting stuff a surfer, but i still don't think it was the right call for most people involved especially the soldiers. I wish i could feel it was the right call and i hope something will make it the right call for many young and older soldiers that lost their lives. Lots of wrongs do not make a right whether they are democrats or republicans.
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My only point IWISh is that Bill was too cowardly to pull the trigger and try to get the enemy. He left that up to the next in line which thankfully was Bush.
Many innocent people lost their lives before we even sent troops overseas... which could have been prevented had Mr. Clinton had the cajones.
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