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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
CBS/AP) The Marine Corps is pushing to redeploy its forces from Iraq to Afghanistan to take the lead in combat operations there and essentially leave Iraq to the Army, The New York Times reported Thursday.

The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway, raised the issue with Defense Secretary Robert Gates last week, the Times reported. Senior military and Pentagon officials said supporters of the proposal, including some in the Army, believe that such a realignment could allow both services to operate more efficiently in the face of strains on the separate forces.

No major Marine units are among the 26,000 U.S. forces in Afghanistan while 25,000 Marines are among the 160,000 U.S. troops there, the paper noted.

Army and Pentagon leaders have warned repeatedly that the long, deadly and repeated deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched and stressed the Army, its soldiers and its families nearly to the breaking point. And there has been ongoing debate about how the service should transform itself to better meet the challenges of future wars.

At a news conference in London, Gates played down the talk about the Marines leaving Iraq.

"I had heard that they were beginning to think about that, and that's all that I've heard," Gates said. "I've seen no plan. No one has come to me with any proposals about it. My understanding is that it's, at this point, extremely preliminary thinking on the part of perhaps the staff in the Marine Corps. But I don't think at this point it has any stature."

Gates also said he is comfortable with Britain's decision to halve its troop levels in Iraq by spring, saying the plan had been worked out jointly with U.S. commanders.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
That is what they should of done.. concentrate on Afghanistan more, where Al Quaida is hiding.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
That is what they should of done.. concentrate on Afghanistan more, where Al Quaida is hiding.
 
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
 
I agree
 
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
 
I agree [Smile]
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
From what i have read about the two combat zones if i were a Marine i would prefer serving in Afghanistan rather than Iraq.

I had never thought about the amount of Marines in Iraq as far as their numbers compared to other branches of the service. I had assumed that the Marines had a higher number of troops in Iraq than they do. Maybe it's because in Southern Ca. we see the Camp Pendleton casualities more.

I would guess the percentage of Marines that are in combat(infantry etc.) are more than the other branches. (as opposed to support troops)

Which service has the higher percentage of reservists in Iraq? I would say the Army.

Bottom line it doesn't really matter which branch of service has more troops in Iraq (Generals can argue over that) what really matters is all those casualties and deaths that will take its toll on families for generations to come. It will be nice when that direct number reaches 0.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
Yah true IWish... but me just saying that we should of concentrated more in Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda/Bin Laden etc. are based... They were/are more of a threat... but 0 casualities is preferable though not reality in guerrilla type of warfare...
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
I was referring to not being in Iraq at all with the 0 number, i was just saying it in a round about way.

There seems to be a lot of different opinions about what the best strategy is in Afghanistan. I think sometimes we are chasing our own tails in that country. My opinion is that we could reduce the forces there and have more special teams trained specifically for that area. By reducing forces we free up extra cash and we buy some good informants.

If they tick us off enough we can always burn down their opium fields, that will cut back on the terrorist bankrolls. Afghanistan is number 1 in the world for opium, that's always been interesting to me since we have a fair amount of troops in that country. I think we have to cut off this lifeline from the terrorists (opium trade)in order to get to them in any major way.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
Agreed.... but they will just move the poppy fields around...
 
Posted by Persia on :
 
US had to finish the job in Afghanistan first, then go after Saddam.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I agree, Persia, but, then, I keep hearing a nagging query way in the back of my mind wanting to know exactly what is "the job in Afghanistan" and what does "finish" mean.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
Bin Laden dead or captured or proven that he has been dead or inactive in decisions in Al Quaeda for some time... as well as destroying what is left of Al Quaeda in Afghanistan as well as their financial resources... that pretty much sums it up...
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
how about changing the title of this thread to the Marines have wiped out Al-Queda in Iraq... cuz they were finally given the green light to do so and now they wanna go wipe out alqueda in Afghanistan...
and get this war over with.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
Al-Qaeda In Iraq Reported Crippled
Many Officials, However, Warn Of Its Resilience

By Thomas E. Ricks and Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, October 15, 2007; Page A01

The U.S. military believes it has dealt devastating and perhaps irreversible blows to al-Qaeda in Iraq in recent months, leading some generals to advocate a declaration of victory over the group, which the Bush administration has long described as the most lethal U.S. adversary in Iraq.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/14/AR2007101401245. html
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Yes, they want to declare victory in Iraq long enough before the next presidential election for the people to be so glad it is over that they can use the resulting "warm fuzzies" from that to marshal forces for the invasion of Iran.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Changing the title of this thread is fine with me.

Sounds like we can bring all the troops home now from both countries.

Saddam is gone and Al-Qaeda wiped out ...Mission Accomplished
 
Posted by Persia on :
 
Mission Accomplished? You're kidding right?

What about the crazy ayatollahs in Iran? Hezbollah? Hamas?

It's not yet over man...
 
Posted by turbokid on :
 
a good point was brought up by IWISHIHAD
the opium trade:
a few months ago i saw a quasi-documentary about how the war on terror was more about drug smuggling by the CIA than about terrorists.
in doing a little back digging i found that since the US invasion opium production has been at never before seen levels! one report said a 3200% increase since the US invasion. mildly interesting.

interesting tidbit i didnt know so i'll share.
in may of 2001 Bush granted the taliban 43 million dollars for its success in stopping opium production. even more interesting.

quote:
The Bush administration has decided not to destroy the opium crop in Afghanistan. President Bush, who previously linked the Afghan drug trade directly to terrorism, has now decided not to destroy the Afghan opium crop.

"The war in Afghanistan will be decided within the next six weeks based on whether or not the poppy crops go to market," stated a U.S. intelligence official who recently returned from Afghanistan.

The source, who requested that he not be identified, noted that the opium poppy fields are blooming and ready for harvest. U.S. forces could destroy the crops using aerial spraying techniques, but no such actions are planned.

"If the estimated 3,000 tons of opium reaches market, it will lead to a new upsurge in international terrorism and a great loss in international credibility for the Bush administration and the United States' ability to conduct war in the 21st century.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/3/28/95240.shtml

even more interesting is the large quantity of opium druglords now in the US's puppet regime Afghanistan. Sounds to me like things are working out just fine for the CIA.. opps i mean afghani drug lords [Smile]
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0513/p01s04-wosc.html?s=spworld
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
What all this makes one wonder is:

Is the enormous Bush family financial conglomerate invested in opium in some way, directly or indirectly, and if so, how deeply?

Perhaps it is a lot like dubya's interest in forcing schools to administer standardized test to children. Sounds to many that he wants to assure the quality of education and that is his claim. But then he has side stepped every opportunity to even minimally support it with the financing for the schools and the states to pay for his mandated testing.

Then one learns that the Bush family financial conglomerate essentially, via several effectively foreign companies (mostly under management by dubya's older brother and paying no U.S. taxes) dominates and virtually controls commercial standardized testing through the free world. The Bush family financial conglomerate makes a profit on each standardized test it sells to those schools and states. Millions of standardized test amounts to a huge profit for the family and the money comes from the pockets of the local tax payer, the little guy, because the very wealthy and huge corporations pay very little local taxes (they take money from local treasuries to pay corporations to build or stay in facilities, maybe football stadia, maybe factories, maybe buildings housing hundreds or thousands of telemarketing stations, then further guarantee they will recieve tax abatements thereafter). (Another scheme to transfer wealth from lower income people to the pockets of the wealthy that can then be hidden from taxes in off shore banks and investments?)

Oil is not the only commodity that makes the very wealthy and privileged be the very wealthy and privileged and is not the only very wealthy special interest group that dubya's efforts have favored over the welfare of the Nation and its people.
 
Posted by cottonjim on :
 
bdgeesuschrist, invested in opium???? You gotta be kidding me. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull sh*t.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
quote:
_________________________________________________

Originally quoted by Persia:


Mission Accomplished? You're kidding right?

What about the crazy ayatollahs in Iran? Hezbollah? Hamas?

It's not yet over man...
_________________________________________________


I thought that's what we went over to Iraq for?(Saddam, Al-Qaeda)
I forgot we also got the weapons of mass destruction.

We thought we could change this thread title here since we believe everything we are being told.
It seems like there is always a reason to stay in Iraq depending on what our government wants us to believe.

The majority of americans at this point will let the government believe we believe them if it means getting our troops out of Iraq. Most of us do not need a good reason stated to see all the troops coming home. Most politicians seem to need a good reason in their minds to bring them home.(winning the war)

As far as Iran and other Mideast countries go, just seems like more American body bags will need to be sent and more shattered lives at home. I think we need a better plan than we had in Iraq or Vietnam if we are going to take on another war.

Unfortunately it probably does not matter what most americans think about another war.

I would like to hear from the majority of serviceman that have been fighting in Iraq. I wonder what they think about an invasion of Iran or another mideast country. How many of those troops would want to do it again the way it has been done in Iraq? They could give us a true picture of the war not the one we read or hear about many times.

Persia, I was not kidding, i was being being sarcastic, i cannot think of a better word other than maybe sick. How many lives are being wasted at this point while our politicians play games instead of doing what they should have done a long time ago. I sure hope that some good comes out of all this mess for the sake of these soldiers and their families.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cottonjim:
bdgeesuschrist, invested in opium???? You gotta be kidding me. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull sh*t.

No, cj, I am not kidding.

I wasn't kidding when I said before the Iraq invasion that Bush wasn't telling us facts about Iraq and Saddam, but you continued long after to insisted that to suggest we weren't getting facts was silly, just as you do about any question what-so-ever of dubya's slackness where vorasity is paramount.

How long did you go about telling us that Bush had secret information of the details of the WMDs in Iraq and you railed that any suggestion dubya or his cohearts would be shading the truth was absurd. Then followed with remarks that were nothing more than attempts to belittle the honor and character of those not sucking the far right wing evangelical sugar teat.

How is it you like to carry on with it? Oh, yeah, with attempts at ridiculing such as saying, "You gotta be kidding me. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull sh*t", which is exactly what you try to do, "baffle 'em with bull sh*t" rather than presenting any evidence......just insulting ridicule and BS.

Well, I'm not baffled. I have seen that it is never what dubya says it is, it is always some scheme to squeeze money out of those that aren't among the vastly wealthy and funnel it eventually to the pockets of the wealthy or it is some effort to undermine the Constitution, making it even easier to transfer wealth to the privileged. If he's not batting 1000, his batting average is very very close to it.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
If those poppy fields are only protected to help locals (one argument for not destoying them) it seems it would be a lot cheaper and a lot more beneifical to our fight against terrorists to just pay everyone in the country a subsidy to not grow opium or just destroy the fields as needed.(since the locals will already be paid)

Maybe we could help the afghanistan people by offering more medical assistance so their child mortality rate changes.

The population of Afghanistan is not very large and i do not think most of their people are receiving much money(if any) from the opium trade. (3 billion dollars a year)

Things do not add up to me why these fields are not being destoyed if they are aiding the enemy.

I suspect that maybe some americans might be profiting a bit from those fields, but maybe that's just my suspicious nature.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
anybody remember the golden triangle from the days of Nam?

or Air America?

i suspect the KGB (or whatever they have become now) is in "the game" too...

they were then...

don't forget Ollie North and the Contra's... suddenly cocaine became king?

when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? Afghan hashish was all over the US....

and Soviet troops:
AFGHANISTAN'S OTHER FRONT: A WORLD OF DRUGS
By ARTHUR BONNER, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES

Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan use drugs extensively, and some Russians sell gasoline, ammunition and stolen guns to support their habits, according to several Russian defectors living with Afghan rebels. In addition, several rebel commanders say that they have captured Russians while the soldiers were drugged or while they were trying to buy hashish or heroin from village merchants. According to Western diplomats and analysts of the Afghan situation in Pakistan and elsewhere, Russian troops in...
November 2, 1985



http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/h/hashish/index.htm l?query=AFGHANISTAN&field=geo&match=exact

it's the banking end of war, and has been for a long time...
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Air America was a good movie. Robert Downey Jr. plays a great part but likes that drug to much that he was transporting in the movie.

I imagine there are a few american soldiers that like their duty in Afghanistan to much. Not that there were any soldiers in Vietnam that liked their duty in areas like Saigon.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
air America wasn't just a movie....


see Anthony Poshepny AKA Tony Poe
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Yea i know. The movie was based on the agency. I had heard a little bit about them back in 1968.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
what i could never figger out is which side which in this crap...
i've always assumed that the "playa's" are not working under direct orders, but have general non-specific orders that allow some "immunity" to do whatever they please...


it's the same in Iraq, only the prize is oil...

i believe there are factions in Iraq that are more or less US, but their goal is not to win the war at all...

oil goes up every time "instability" is in the news.. that's not a coincidence...
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Yes $3.10 a gallon for regular and rising. It must be nice to be at the right end of that business.

Takes a lot of manipulating and money. That's why they call them the Oil Cartel. Seems to be different cartels, ones that operate legally and ones that operate illegally. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference.
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
We would have been out of Iraq long ago had Clinton kept his promises.........Someone HAD to be the one to make the right call and that was our beloved president Bush....


The Clinton's


Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting
all contractual conditions of registering for the draft.
Selective Service Number 326 46 228.
Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.
Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.
Bill Clinton refuses to report and is not inducted into the military.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army
Reserves on August 07, 1969, under authority of Col. E. Holmes.
Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.

Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of
Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969 as enlistment with
Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL
and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) registrant who
has failed to report...remain liable for induction.

Bill Clinton's birthdate lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969,
but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction is
INELIGIBLE!

Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under
Public Law 90-40.

Bill married Hillary Rodham, who couldn't pass the bar exam in Mass.,
but did pass it in Arkansas ?????

Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice.

Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21,1977 from President Carter.

Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President of the
United States.

All these facts come from Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and
various books that have been published, and have never been refuted by Clinton.

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, President Clinton promised that
those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel;
Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured
200 U.S. military personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 2000 bomb ing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors.
Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

If Clinton had kept those promises, 3,000+ people in New York and Washington, DC that are now dead would be alive today.

AN INTERESTING QUESTION:
This question was raised on a Philly radio call-in show.

There are two men, both extremely wealthy. One develops relatively cheap software and gives billions of dollars to charity. The other sponsors terrorism. That being the case, why was it that the Clinton Administration spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the eight years in office, than chasing down Osama bin Laden?

It is a strange turn of events. Hillary gets more than $8 Million for her forthcoming memoir.
Bill gets over $12 Million for his memoir yet to be written. Their blind trust is estimated to be more than $25 million. This from two people who spent 8 years being unable to recall anything about past events while under oath.

Sincerely,

Cdr. Hamilton McWhorter USN (ret)


I don't want this woman to even THINK about running for president. I don't want these people back in the White House!
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
surfer, you are afflicted with a subminiscule mentality.

There is no one to blame for the mess this nation has made of the world but mental snow flakes that put that demented draft dodging pervert in office, then pray to and worship the republican gods of war, like still blind little puppy dogs do their mama's teats.

I doubt you have ever had an independent thought. Come to think of it, that is assured, as thinking (not to mention acting on one's own) is reviled by the right-wing.

Wasn't this a thread about Marines wanting to go to Afganistan and fight AlQaeda (where they should have been doing that all along)?
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
actually, when you consider how pitiful Bush's responses have been? i'd say they are about equal... [Big Grin]

osama is still alive..

that might change if we release the hounds in Afghanistan:


 -
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
surfer, you are afflicted with a subminiscule mentality.

There is no one to blame for the mess this nation has made of the world but mental snow flakes that put that demented draft dodging pervert in office, then pray to and worship the republican gods of war, like still blind little puppy dogs do their mama's teats.

I doubt you have ever had an independent thought. Come to think of it, that is assured, as thinking (not to mention acting on one's own) is reviled by the right-wing.

Wasn't this a thread about Marines wanting to go to Afganistan and fight AlQaeda (where they should have been doing that all along)?

Wouldn't expect anything less from you...GL
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Interesting stuff a surfer, but i still don't think it was the right call for most people involved especially the soldiers. I wish i could feel it was the right call and i hope something will make it the right call for many young and older soldiers that lost their lives. Lots of wrongs do not make a right whether they are democrats or republicans.
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
My only point IWISh is that Bill was too cowardly to pull the trigger and try to get the enemy. He left that up to the next in line which thankfully was Bush.

Many innocent people lost their lives before we even sent troops overseas... which could have been prevented had Mr. Clinton had the cajones.
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Yes $3.10 a gallon for regular and rising. It must be nice to be at the right end of that business.

Takes a lot of manipulating and money. That's why they call them the Oil Cartel. Seems to be different cartels, ones that operate legally and ones that operate illegally. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference.

We'll take advantage of the current situation and trade in Oil futures as well as related ones like Natural gas etc. Also trade stocks related to oil. Oil companies, refineries, transportation/logistics. etc.. anyone here doing that out of curiosity? ...
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
My only point IWISh is that Bill was too cowardly to pull the trigger and try to get the enemy. He left that up to the next in line which thankfully was Bush.

Many innocent people lost their lives before we even sent troops overseas... which could have been prevented had Mr. Clinton had the cajones.

Wasn't Sadaam our staunch Allie during the Reagan years? (And didn't Bush Sr. leave him in power after the Persian Gulf War so in essence were cleaning up his mess that he left behind then?) [Roll Eyes]

Wasn't Gen. Noriega as well when he was doing business with drug cartels from Colombia when he ruled Panama? [Roll Eyes]

Didn't we give financial and military aid of sorts to Bin Laden and his Taliban cronies in the 80's when Afghanistan was Russian occupied? [Roll Eyes]

Iran/Contra during the Reagan watch anyone? [Roll Eyes]

And on and on. Before you point fingers at the Left, perhaps you should consider the Rights' own past and history and the messes they created years before that led to future messes like the drug epidemic, Bin Laden's rise to power in the terrorist world as well as Sadaam's own grip on his country and the Taliban's reign in Afghanistan etc.. etc...
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Cowardly is hiding from the Viet Cong in the Guard then deserting because you are too scared to drive an airplane.

There has been no person that has lost their life in the Iraq war that lost it because of Bill, Clinton. But each life lost and each body maimed in duby's war in Iraq is a life destroyed by duby's lies and no one but dubya and the senseless far right-wing sheep that voted for him and his kind into power are to blame for the lost of a single one of thise lives.


Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before Bush invaded, is not there now, and won't be there in the future because the Iraq people don't want him there, not because of anything dubya has done.. The so called "Al Qaeda in Iraq" is not Al Qaeda and never was. Al Qaeda was and still is in Afganistan and nearby parts of northern Pakistan, where cowardly George, the deserter, Bush was afraid to face them.

Many innocent people lost their lives in Iraq because dubya sent our troups there....no one except George, the deserter, Bush could have stopped him from invading Iraq and all those lost lives are directly the result of his actions and no one else. No one but dubya is to blame, other than the Party liners that put dubya in power.

I was wrong to say you had a subminiscule mentality. I was too generous.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
I guess a different way to look at it is to say the Iraq war would have been different if we had been there sooner.

I still look at this war as i have looked at it from the start, i never felt that sooner would have made any difference in this type of warfare in the long run or even the short run. Of course i might be blinded a little by history and Vietnam which kind of took a similiar path in my opinion.

Maybe there is some major point that i have missed that will make me see that the US staying in Iraq this long has been more of a benefit than a burden.(lives lost, money spent etc.)

Sometimes not pulling the trigger can be the best thing you ever do even though some might consider it cowardly.

Then again pulling the trigger might be the necessary thing to do and even pulling it more times than many Americans have the stomach for.

But bottom line for me is that i cannot see anything major accomplished in the long run by us invading Iraq. A lot of american lives have been torn apart by this war.

Did we really save more lives by going into Iraq or cost more lives in the short and long run? I would not have wanted to risk my own families lives for what i have seen and what we have accomplished so far... would you?

If so many people think this war is worth the loss of lives, money spent etc. I would think there would be plenty of enlistees. Instead we are having to send these same troops over to Iraq time and time again.

A Surfer, I would like you to convince me that President Bush made the correct call by going to war in Iraq and pulling the trigger. Just like i would like someone to convince me that going to war in Vietnam was worth all the lives.

I hope that the Iraq soldiers end up having something more to show for their efforts than a wall in Washington DC listing the names of their dead and MIA soldiers... doesn't seem to be enough for those lives.
 
Posted by turbokid on :
 
EXCELLENT post Mach !!
both sides are turds
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
From Machs post

"And on and on. Before you point fingers at the Left, perhaps you should consider the Rights' own past and history and the messes they created years before that led to future messes like the drug epidemic, Bin Laden's rise to power in the terrorist world as well as Sadaam's own grip on his country and the Taliban's reign in Afghanistan etc.. etc..."


Allies, foes and their character change with time. The "response time" at which you confront your enemy can change history.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Sorry, surfer, but Mach is 100% correct and you have missed the boat again.

AND, as you point out, "The "response time" at which you confront your enemy can change history." and dubya sat on his "Star Wars" hype that the only dangers facing the United States were from missile attacks and only anti-missile shields and the like would receive funding to the point of, by Presidential dictate, ignoring Al Qaeda as a matter of political policy until it was too late. 9/11 lays purely at the foot of Bush the republican party.
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Sorry, surfer, but Mach is 100% correct and you have missed the boat again.

AND, as you point out, "The "response time" at which you confront your enemy can change history." and dubya sat on his "Star Wars" hype that the only dangers facing the United States were from missile attacks and only anti-missile shields and the like would receive funding to the point of, by Presidential dictate, ignoring Al Qaeda as a matter of political policy until it was too late. 9/11 lays purely at the foot of Bush the republican party.

Thats 100% B.S. and you know it bdgee. 9-11 was months after bush was inaugurated. They had been planning the attack for almost 10 years prior.

Nice try twistalot....

My posts are not attacking democrats they are attacking Clinton only.

He is a dirtbag who is best known for getting his **** sucked in the oval office period.

I'll pray for you.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Only a pea brained bigot and fool refuses to look at the facts and when poresented with them declares them to "100% B.S."

Yes, 9/11 was months after dubya was appointed long after he was responsible for the nation's safety and no one that served in that office earlier had authority or any further responsibility for what happened. dubya did absolutely nothing to even consider the possibility of any attack other than promoting star wars. He even bragged about it and claimed any other form of attack was impossible and he would not allow consideration of them. Bush didn't do his job, preferring instead to use the power of office to award huge contracts to his buddies and compatriots to chase up blind alleys that still, to this day, can not prevent evenb the type of attack he claimed was the only kind that was possible.

Your post are all a bunch of contrived Party line hype and lies. You are a sick party line member of a sick fascist movement.

So far as I can determine, there is no law, "period", stating it is illegal for the President to "get his **** sucked in the oval office" and it certainly, it having been a conscious and willing act, conducted in private, of the two fully adult persons involved, it is none of your damned business. Moreover, you are a dirtbag for constantly harping on something that is none of you concern. (If you actually imagine it is of your concern, then you are either a social disgusting fool or you are a psycho.)

9/11 is 100% at the feet of The Great prevaricator and NO ONE who held that office before is responsible. It happened on his watch. It happened after he promised us he was fully aware of any possible dangers to the Nation and had them fully in hand.

Don't pray for me, pray for your own soul, for the good lord never meant for sick weirdos to be afoot in the world, spreading hate, and disturbing the peace and tranquility of society and he does not tolerate them in Heaven. You're headed down.
 
Posted by a surfer on :
 
Don't pray for me, pray for your own soul, for the good lord never meant for sick weirdos to be afoot in the world, spreading hate, and disturbing the peace and tranquility of society and he does not tolerate them in Heaven. You're headed down.


Headed down...?

Sounds like a threat to me.

Bigot? You can do better than that, your bdgee

I love you...........
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Crap, get away from me, you weird sexual freak. I ain't Larry Craig and I don't love guys.

Yech!
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Veterans are denied mental health help
By Philip Dine
POST-DISPATCH WASHINGTON BUREAU
10/21/2007

Donald Schmidt

WASHINGTON — After two combat tours in Iraq on a "quick reaction team" that picked up body parts after suicide bombings, Donald Schmidt began suffering from nightmares and paranoia. Then he had a nervous breakdown.

The military discharged Schmidt last Oct. 31 for problems they said resulted not from post-traumatic stress disorder but rather from a personality disorder that pre-dated his military service.

Schmidt's mother, Patrice Semtner-Myers, says her son was told that if he agreed to leave the Army he'd get full benefits. Earlier this month, however, they got a bill in the mail from a collection agency working for the government, demanding that he repay his re-enlistment bonus, plus interest — $14,597.72.

Schmidt, 23, who lives near Peoria, Ill., is one of more than 22,000 service members the military has discharged in recent years for "pre-existing personality disorders" it says were missed when they signed up.

"They used these guys up, and now they're done with them and they're throwing them away," Semtner-Myers said.

Her frustration extends to Capitol Hill, where the stage is being set for a confrontation between Congress and the Pentagon.

Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, calls the treatment of these troops "disgraceful."

"If they have personality disorders, how did they get in the military in the first place?" Filner asks. "You either have taken a kid below the standards, in which case you've got obligations after you send him to war, or you're putting these kids' futures in danger with false diagnoses. Either way it's criminal."

The Pentagon defends its policy.

"No military in the history of the world has done more to identify, evaluate, prevent and treat the mental health needs and concerns of its personnel," Defense Department spokeswoman Cynthia O. Smith said. All cases of personality disorder discharges are diagnosed by a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist, and troops receive some benefits including health care, life insurance and education, she said.

Filner isn't buying it.

"These young people are being lied to and manipulated," he said. "We deny them proper classification so they can't get benefits, then they get this bill for a prorated signing bonus."

In the Senate, Missouri Republican Christopher "Kit" Bond, along with Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., is leading an effort to force the Pentagon to change its practice. Bond says it appears worse than the scandal earlier this year over poor conditions at Walter Reed hospital.

"This is a very sad story," Bond says. "We are fortunate enough to bring many severely wounded soldiers and Marines home, but we're not dealing with their mental health problems. They need help, not a discharge because some phony pre-existing condition is brought up."

'I JUST CRACKED'

William Wooldridge, 37, of Blytheville, Ark., re-enlisted shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. He says he made the grade by losing 44 pounds in eight weeks by a combination of running and dieting.

But intense fighting combined with family problems — his wife left him while he was in Iraq — sent him into a mental tailspin.

"We're doing 20-24 hour days, sleeping underneath our trucks, people trying to kill us and blow us up," Wooldridge said. "Then I got a letter saying I didn't have a reason to come home — and I just cracked."

Back in the United States, he continued to have blackouts, hear voices and have nighttime hallucinations of terrorism and children dying. The Army discharged him, citing a pre-existing personality disorder, even though several doctors diagnosed him as having post-traumatic stress.

"They told me the best way to handle it was to go along with a personality disorder discharge, that the (Veterans Administration) would take care of me. So I signed it and went to the VA, and the VA said, 'You were discharged with a personality disorder; you don't get any benefits.'

"I was no longer of any use to them."

Wooldridge says the military recently decided it had overpaid him for a period of time and is deducting $137.85 a month from his Social Security payments. He says he's unable mentally to hold a job.

"This is not the way I want to be," he says, "but it's the way I am."


CLINICALLY VALID?

Col. Bob Ireland, an Air Force psychiatrist and flight surgeon, is the Pentagon's program director for mental health policy.

He says as many as 100,000 service members have been diagnosed with personality disorders in the past six years. Discharges take place only where the disorders "are genuinely interfering with the ability of the unit to function," he said.

Troops suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder get the same extensive coverage as retired military personnel who spent their career in uniform, Ireland said, including lifetime benefits and VA treatment in a military hospital if needed. Along with that come various privileges, such as use of military recreational facilities.

Those discharged with pre-existing disorders get a reduced set of benefits equivalent to those provided to uninjured troops who did their tour and got an honorable discharge, including six months of treatment for some ailments, then two years of priority VA benefits; and GI education loans.

Soldiers who think they were misdiagnosed can appeal to a review board, he says.

"We track their deployment experience, including exposure to trauma. We track, 'Did you see dead bodies? Was it so horrible you couldn't shake it?'"

Asked whether the softening of basic training in recent years might be failing to weed out some troops while not preparing others for combat conditions, Ireland says that's possible — and that the matter is being studied.

Although the Pentagon's policies are sound, he said, they may not always be carried out perfectly. "You need to make sure people have time to do an assessment, to do an adequate mental status exam. We have to make sure this process is clinically valid."

Dr. Karen Pentella, assistant clinical professor of neurology at Washington University's medical school, doubts that thousands of young men and women entered the military with personality disorders and now have problems unrelated to their military experiences.

"At this point it's not possible for us to know whether these people really have these disorders, because having been in combat, a lot of these people suffer from PTSD and many from TBI (traumatic brain injury). From explosions, their brains literally have been shaken up ... which helps explain why their personalities may be changing.

"It's too late when they get back from Iraq to say, 'Whoops, we missed it. Thanks for fighting, but you have a pre-existing condition.'"

'HEARING BOMBS'

Patty Harvey's son, Nick Harvey, 26, of Costa Mesa, Calif., was discharged from the Army after fighting in Iraq and has spent time in a variety of hospitals and now at home, often in what his mother describes as "almost a catatonic state."

Military doctors said he had a pre-existing personality disorder, meaning reduced benefits, but his mother disagrees.

"It's obvious what happened — he gets into a war zone, the bombs are flipping him out, and all of a sudden he's an entirely different person. Before, he partied with his friends, was a surfer, played guitar like you couldn't believe. Now he has fears about everything, he has fears about the food he eats, he has fears about people poisoning him.

"He stays home every day. ... If this kid doesn't have PTSD, I don't know who does. But they won't give him the diagnosis unless I continue to fight, and I'm running out of fight."

Rep. Phil Hare, D-Ill., of the veterans panel, says the Pentagon has yet to come to grips with the problem.

"They're in denial," Hare says. "There was a huge mistake here. We need to stop it, and then see how it happened, ... I can't think of a crueler thing to do to people who defend the nation."

Hare says by his calculations, the Pentagon stood to "save $12.5 billion by doing what they're doing."

Bond and Obama secured an amendment to the Senate defense bill that restricts use of personality-disorder discharges. The House bill lacks that provision, and the Senate-House conference committee will soon try to reconcile the two bills.

Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., of the House Armed Services Committee, is on the conference panel. "My sense is if there's going to be any errors, it's on the side of making sure we're taking care of our troops properly," he says.

pdine*post-dispatch.com | 202-298-6880
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
"Bond and Obama secured an amendment to the Senate defense bill that restricts use of personality-disorder discharges. The House bill lacks that provision, and the Senate-House conference committee will soon try to reconcile the two bills".


Instead of adding more clauses to bills how about making sure the system is working right. Many of the adjudicators are not folowing the present laws as they stand anyhow.

Re- enlistment bonus repay + interest, i thought that was interesting. The same government that tries to get interest on its payments is the same government that does not allow interest to be added on when a veteran wins his disability case that might go on for 7+ years. I do not think you can get interest on your SS security disability claim either. Do you have to pay interest if you owe back taxes? I think you do.
It sure looks like a one way street.

Scary how much these wars cost us. They figure by that not paying just these claims it will save 12.5 billion dollars. The government needs to print a little more money.

A 100% disibility award for a veteran is not that much money in many states it would be very hard to live on it.
 
Posted by Oddmanout on :
 
I have been reading the post on allstocks for a good while now and I have seen many points of view. It seems like Mr. Bdgee usually backs up his statements with facts. Mr. Bdgee my hats off to you. You seem to be a well educated man. The Iraq mess is what it is. No matter how people want to spin it.....Bush is still responsible for many American deaths.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Oddmanout, Is there any chance we might know you by a different name?
 
Posted by Oddmanout on :
 
No...I would not think so. My Friends call me Mike. [Smile]
 
Posted by jordanreed on :
 
hello,joe
 
Posted by Oddmanout on :
 
haha
 


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