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Author Topic: 6 killed in Minneapolis bridge collapse
glassman
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i read a good book a couple years back on the history of the Miss River and how our management of it began.... it includes discussions of the first bridge built and the levees and how the politics worked when they created the Army Corps of Engineers i give it a 4 of five stars:

Rising Tide by John Barry

http://www.amazon.com/Rising-Tide-Mississippi-Changed-America/dp/0684840022



Book Review -- John M. Barry, Rising Tide: The Great
Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America, 1997

Simon & Schuster, New York, N.Y. $27.50. 524 pp.

Richard Brownlow, 3L

John Barry's Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America is an excellent examination of a dramatic event in American history. The flood of 1927 highlighted futile attempts to control nature, end a way of life in the Mississippi-Yazoo delta, and marked an end of the driving force behind New Orleans, the powerful banking establishment.

Barry successfully describes efforts to control the Mississippi River, explains the connection between the Mississippi delta culture and the river, and examines the enormous influence powerful banking families had over decisions affecting New Orleans. Barry tells each story against the powerful backdrop of the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, on of the most devastating natural events of this century. The Mississippi River flood of 1993 which devastated the Midwest carried one million cubic feet of water per second while the 1927 flood carried an excess of three million cubic feet of water per second. Extreme amounts of rain throughout the Midwest in the Fall of 1926 followed by record setting snowstorms that resulted in drifts ten feet tall set the stage for the flood to come. On April 21, 1927, these forces came to bear at Mounds Landing, a small ferry station on the Mississippi a few miles north of Greenville, MS.

http://www.olemiss.edu/orgs/SGLC/MS-AL/book.htm

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glassman
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does this sound vaguely familiar?


In the late 1920's, New Orleans was controlled by powerful banking families, all members of the clubs, who exerted enormous control over business and political decisions affecting the city. As a result of having this power, members of these clubs decided to intentionally dynamite the levee to lower the flood level in New Orleans and protect the commerce of the city. The Corps originally proposed destroying the levee in the wake of the 1922 flood when they advised the New Orleans financial com...

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Disbelief gave way to action for first responders
By David Chanen, Star Tribune

.....

quote:
At the site, Hoeppner talked to construction workers who survived the fall. They had been doing repair work but expressed concern to him that the bridge had been wobbling several days before it collapsed. Every layer of concrete the workers removed, the bridge would wobble even more, they told Hoeppner.
.....

Full Text At:
http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1343624.html

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glassman
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maybe the guy they told doesn't understand spanish?

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Most recent report, PDF format. (Includes pictures)

2006 MDOT report

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i35wbridge/pdfs/06fracture-critical-bridge-inspection _june-2006.pdf

quote:
Executive Summary:
If bridge replacement is significantly delayed, the bridge should be re-decked. The design of main river spans do not allow for deck widening. Any re-decking contract should also include a complete re-painting of the superstructure elimination of the hinge joint in span #2, and reconfiguration of the deck drainage system.

.....

Inquiry looks at work on bridge
Construction was under way on Minnesota span

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,695198131,00.html

quote:
The contract required Progressive to repair the bridge deck, replace the concrete surface and expansion joints and work on the anti-icing system, said Minnesota Department of Transportation spokesman Kevin Gutknecht.

Company officials said the crew was preparing to pour a 2-inch layer of concrete when the span gave way.

.....

Looks to me like, (with the exception of superstructure repainting), MDOT WAS doing proper maintenance on the I-35W bridge.... at least according to a report prepared by a certified Structural Engineer....

However, I have done inspection work myself (not on bridges, but other steel structures), and I speak first hand when I say the inspection process is totally inadequate.

How good are bridge safety inspectors?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_re_us/bridge_inspections_1

quote:
COOKSVILLE, Md. - The main protection against collapsing bridges in America are the eyes and ears of inspectors like Jody Ferris, who on Friday was checking a repaired weld on a 34-year-old bridge with some pretty low-tech tools: flashlight, hammer, ruler and camera.

Experience is what counts, said Ferris' boss, Joe Miller of the Maryland Department or Transportation. "Nothing is better than the human element."

Many in the industry disagree, and a federal test of bridge inspectors gives them reason for concern. On one bridge, a fifth of the inspectors missed serious problems.

IMO, the solution is a combination of more frequent and thorough inspections by better trained inspectors, coupled with a new type of electronic monitoring that can 'see' where it is difficult or impossible to inspect with the naked eye.

An Early-Warning System for Bridges
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20070806/us_time/anearlywarningsystemforbridges

[ August 06, 2007, 18:51: Message edited by: NaturalResources ]

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glassman
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IMO, the solution is a combination of more frequent and thorough inspections by better trained inspectors, coupled with a new type of electronic monitoring that can 'see' where it is difficult or impossible to inspect with the naked eye.

i wonder if there's thermal imaging or sonic imaging that can detect "defects" i know that Xrays can, but they are not very safe...

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BooDog
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/us/07mine.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

Just heard. Terrible. I hope they can get to them.

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NR
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i wonder if there's thermal imaging or sonic imaging that can detect "defects" i know that Xrays can, but they are not very safe...

As I understand it, there are methods using both radiometric (XRAY) and ultrasonic, but they are small-scale and are less accurate when being used on "in place" objects.

Ultrasonic Inspection of Bridge Hanger Pins
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/nov00/ultrasonic.htm

While ultrasonic and radiometric methods give more information about the integrity of any given bridge support member, identification of members to be testing using these methods is still provided by visual inspection.

There are some pretty good articles here on various bridge inspection topics in PDF format.

ASCE Technical Articles - Referenced by Topic
http://content.asce.org/I_35Collapse_Technical.html#Testing

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glassman
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nice article...

they showed some seriously worn out pins in there!

However, the results from the field ultrasonic testing were found to be quite accurate, given the logistical challenges present in the acquisition of field ultrasonic data.

sounds like ulrasound has SOME uses here...

when i raced? i used to have all my newly acquired (even tho they were actually used) engine blocks magnafluxed before i built them, and after i had major blow-ups...


it was done in a tank

apparently there is now a dry version of magnafluxing too... that could be done on site...

seems to me there might be some investment opportunities in this area..

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NR
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Sounds similar to what I read in this article..

Q&A with bridge inspector: Job takes high-tech, hands-on methods
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10095506

quote:
Q. What other testing methods do you use?


A. We take a magnetized yoke and put it on either side of where we think the crack is, and that polarizes one side from the other. You sprinkle metal filings right on the surface. Magnetizing will polarize those metal filings, and they'll line up. Where you have a crack, there will be a discontinuity. You'll see a nice crack where there aren't any metal filings. That will also detect a minor subsurface crack.

I did a little digging on the topic. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Germany is ahead of us in this area of research... Just look at the engineering behind the Autobahn.

SQUID System for Magnetic Inspection of Prestressed Tendons on Concrete Bridges
http://www.ultrasonic.de/article/wcndt00/papers/idn320/idn320.htm

Another good article here:

NDT Methods for the inspection of highway structures
http://www.ndt.net/article/ndtce03/papers/v001/v001.htm

And Here:
Nondestructive Evaluation for Bridge Management in the Next Century (FHWA)
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/july97/ndejuly.htm

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jordanreed
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The Lafayette Bridge: A reason for worry in St. Paul?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20171122/

this one is pretty scary to cross,,

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glassman
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today i started hearing about a "design flaw" in the bridge gussets...
Possible flaw identified in I-35W bridge design

Federal officials concentrate on a possible design flaw and warn bridge engineers nationwide to watch weight of construction work.

By Tony Kennedy, Mike Kaszuba, Paul McEnroe and Dan Browning, Star Tribune

Last update: August 09, 2007 – 10:42 AM

Opening a new window into last week's fatal bridge collapse, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said that one of its areas of inquiry involves the design of steel connecting plates known as gusset plates; the material makeup of those plates; and the loads and stresses they bore.
Hours later, Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters said the NTSB indicated that the stress on the bridge's gusset plates may have been a factor in the bridge collapse


may have been?
http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1350971.html

Article Last Updated: 08/04/2007 11:27:08 PM CDT
"We need to look at the design. It's all in the design," Kurt Fuhrman said during an interview Saturday at his Rosemount home. "I'm not a designer. I'm an inspector."

Fuhrman, 52, had done "fracture-critical" inspections on the bridge every year except one since 1994.

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6546147

of course the person whose responsibility this was would say this, but i heard Bush "latch on" to it today....

THE PRESIDENT: First of all, Secretary Peters is gathering information and will report to the White House and report to the nation about what she finds about whether there are any structural design flaws that may be applicable to other bridges. She's in the process of gathering this information now.

he says it as if it's already a foregone conclusion.... it isn't... these gussets have not been suspect before now....

gussets are "little" plates that connect beams..

i don't like hearing this...

it puts the "blame" back on the designer instead of on poor planned maintenance...

which in turn takes the blame off of the politicians that are ignoring the funding to do proper maintenance...

this picture shows gussets:

 -

they are the rectangular plates..

usually on bridges they have rivets in them....

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NR
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As state money diminished, so did goals for bridge safety

MnDOT officials said they revised goals to adjust to what other states were doing.

By Mike Kaszuba and Laurie Blake, Star Tribune staff writers


quote:
After setting an ambitious goal in the late 1990s of keeping 65 percent of Minnesota's bridges in good condition, state transportation officials retreated from the target as they fell behind in their efforts to reach it.
The top bridge engineer in the Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT) said the agency began discussing lowering the goal in 2003 and later dropped it to 55 percent, a reversal that came as MnDOT faced mounting financial challenges.

Though MnDOT officials said the goal was revised to reflect what other states were doing, and not to lower any safety standards, some legislators said the change is one more sign of how a beleaguered department was forced to align its expectations with dwindling financial resources.

As of last year, MnDOT was falling short of even its lowered goal.

.....

Full Text At:
http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1367536.html

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Phone call put brakes on bridge repair

Plans to reinforce the bridge were well underway when the project came to a screeching halt in January amid concerns about safety and cost.

By Tony Kennedy and Paul McEnroe, Star Tribune staff writers

quote:
The men and women whose job was to ensure the safety of Bridge 9340 were meeting once again. Just after noon on Dec. 6, they filed into a conference room in Roseville to divvy up the final prep work for a dangerous steel reinforcement project high above the Mississippi River.

A senior engineer was going to pull property records in order to contact landowners beneath the bridge. Detours were coming for West River Road. The Coast Guard was about to get heaps of paperwork on what tasks would be done from the river channel. Truck drivers would soon learn of pending weight restrictions.

It appeared that the most studied bridge in Minnesota, the focus of worrisome inspection reports for a decade, was finally going to have its most glaring weaknesses fixed.

.....

Full Text At:
http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1370130.html

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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
corosion...

my experience in the Navy ( and several of my own boats) is that what you see is (like an iceberg) only a small portion...

I found a picture of one of the "gusset plates" you were talking about earlier....

 -

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glassman
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that one looks like it held, but the beams were sheared at the connection....

in '03 all the states were hurting for cash.


the state hiway patrols all across the midwest were running out of gas money and cutting back on patrols..

the housing "boom" helped fix that problem by generating alot of revenue from sales, and rising home prices increased real estate tax revenues...

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Indeed... If you read the article titled "Phone call put brakes on bridge repair" and click on the graphic, it shows the box beams near the gusset plates as the area to be reinforced.

However, this work was never done after consultants suggested in Jan of 07 that drilling for the reinforcement could significantly weaken the bridge and force it to be condemned....

Also, as I suspected, MDOT caught the event on their traffic cams shortly after it happened...

Unfortunately, the camera was facing the opposite way when the collapse occurred.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i35wbridge/video/collapse2mins.wmv

On a side note:

MDOT now has an in-depth 1-35W Bridge website that is worth visiting.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i35wbridge/index.html

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The Bigfoot
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All the rain has been making recovery difficult but they are making headway. Just found another victim today. Only one missing person left.


Sad thing. The wife of the last missing guy said on the news a couple days after the collapse that her worst fear at that point was that her husband would be the last one to be found.

Premonition?

On a loosely related note... 6 people killed in southern MN this weekend due to flood from all the rain we've been getting. Bridges and houses washing away. Too much rain and too late in the season to help the farmers who have lost their crop to drought.

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Pigeon dung examined in bridge collapse
By MARTIGA LOHN, Associated Press Writer

quote:
ST. PAUL, Minn. - Pounded and strained by heavy traffic and weakened by missing bolts and cracking steel, the failed interstate bridge over the Mississippi River also faced a less obvious enemy: pigeons.

Inspectors began documenting the buildup of pigeon dung on the span near downtown Minneapolis two decades ago. Experts say the corrosive guano deposited all over the Interstate 35W span's framework helped the steel beams rust faster.

Although investigators have yet to identify the cause of the bridge's Aug. 1 collapse, which killed at least 13 people and injured about 100, the pigeon problem is one of many factors that dogged the structure.

"There is a coating of pigeon dung on steel with nest and heavy buildup on the inside hollow box sections," inspectors wrote in a 1987-1989 report.

In 1996, screens were installed over openings in the bridge's beams to keep pigeons from nesting there, but that didn't prevent the building of droppings elsewhere.

Pigeon droppings contain ammonia and acids, said chemist Neal Langerman, an officer with the health and safety division of the American Chemical Society. If the dung isn't washed away, it dries out and turns into a concentrated salt. When water gets in and combines with the salt and ammonia, it creates small electrochemical reactions that rust the steel underneath.

Full Text At:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_sc/bridge_collapse_pigeons

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glassman
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just like an RNC parrot [Wink] thats right, blame it on the birds... Hithcock would have been proud... [Razz]


this still comes back to simple maintenance...

ever notice how clean and sparkly new cars are in the dealers lots? they can afford to have them pressure washed regularly, just go out and about at 4 AM and you'll see 'em in lots with a pressure washer in the back of pickup.......

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LOL.... I've been that guy with the pressure washer before....

I agree, Pigeon dung isn't a problem if you clean it up often and repaint the superstructure every couple years....

If I remember correctly, repainting the superstructure of the I-35W bridge was recommended by the Engineers report in 06. Oddly, while probably not as expensive as the deck replacement, repainting was not included in the project that was underway at the time the bridge collapsed.

However, even if it had been included, it probably wouldn't have mattered. Corrosion from Pigeon dung is not the kind of thing you can let fester for 10+ years and then wash it off, slap on a bandaid, and then expect everything will be ok....

IMO, even if they show that it was corrosion from Pigeon dung that weakend this bridge enough to bring it down, it still points to neglect and negligence on the part of 'those in charge' of the decision making process, (Gee, big surprise there)....

Also, the article mentioned that the NTSB was investigating into whether or not the chemicals from the automatic de-iceing system that was installed on the bridge were corrosive. Shouldn't they know this already BEFORE they install that kind of system on a bridge!?!

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Miss. River bridge closed at Memphis
August 27, 2007

quote:
WEST MEMPHIS, Ark. - Officials shut down a major Mississippi River bridge Monday after a pier under a small approach span settled nearly 4 inches during the night in a construction zone.

The approach span for the Interstate 40 bridge was still supported by other piers, so the most motorists might have noticed would have been a slight dip, said Randy Ort, a spokesman for the Arkansas Highway and Transportation Department.

He said the entire 1.5-mile-long bridge into downtown Memphis will remain closed until sometime Tuesday. Traffic over the river was diverted to the nearby I-55 bridge.

Full Text At:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_on_re_us/river_bridge_closed

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The Bigfoot
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IMO corrosion is the main factor. The stuff they put down around here eats through anything given enough time. The trucks still dump on the bridge even with the auto system. Meaning the bridge gets a double dose.

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Bridge's de-icing system coming under scrutiny
August 22, 2007
By Pam Louwagie and Dan Browning, Star Tribune

quote:
According to a 2001 MnDOT report, the agency chose a relatively expensive de-icing chemical called CF7, a liquid potassium acetate manufactured by Cryotech, a division of San Diego-based General Atomics. The agency said it selected the chemical, in part, "because it is safer for structural steel and reinforcing steel embedded in concrete" and is readily biodegradable.

"Also the fluid contains no nitrogen or chlorides," the report said. "Therefore, CF7 is considered much safer for the environment than glycol, urea, or chloride-based anti-icing chemicals."

MnDOT discovered that the chemical reacted with galvanized metals, however, when some was spilled on a grate. Cryotech issued a technical bulletin in 2005 saying a slow reaction can occur when potassium acetate and zinc come into prolonged contact. Zinc is used to galvanize steel.

In an update, the company said the reaction was not an issue during normal use. It cited a MnDOT project looking into whether the anti-icing chemical was creating advanced deterioration on the I-35W bridge. It concluded that the galvanization on the bridge components was thick enough.

Cryotech could not be reached for comment on Wednesday.



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the Hernando de soto Bridge in Memphis was just closed due to usnpecified problems found upon inspection...

this is the Interstate 40 bridge in Memphis...

this is a major US artery

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I-35w Bridge Collapse / Engineer doubts fatigue is culprit
BY JASON HOPPIN

quote:
In testimony before Congress on Wednesday, the state's top bridge engineer indicated that fatigue does not appear to be the cause of the Interstate 35W bridge collapse.

The Minnesota Department of Transportation has been under scrutiny since revelations that several months before the Aug. 1 collapse - which killed 13 people - the agency opted for further inspections rather than a bridge repair initially recommended by engineering consultants.

"Up to this time, fatigue has not been identified as an issue," said Dan Dorgan, bridge engineer for MnDOT, cautioning that the National Transportation Safety Board still needs to complete its investigation.

The bridge was the subject of two exhaustive studies, both of which looked into hairline cracks that inspectors found in steel on its approach spans. Video of the collapse shows the center span over the Mississippi River fell first, not the approach spans.

Dorgan and several others, including U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Mary Peters and Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, testified during a daylong hearing on Capitol Hill led by U.S. Rep. Jim Oberstar, D-Minn.

Oberstar is proposing a 5-cents-per-gallon increase in the federal gas tax to improve bridges across the country, where one in eight are deemed "structurally deficient." Peters said a gas tax hike wasn't necessary and that instead, Congress could limit federal earmarks, which she said consume federal transportation dollars.

That led to several clashes with Oberstar and other Democratic members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
"It would be immoral to have this bridge collapse and do nothing about it," Oberstar said at the conclusion of the hearing, after Peters had left.

But the proposal found support from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Trucking Association and several others, including senior transportation officials in other states.

The strongest testimony came from Donald Kaniewski, legislative and political affairs director for the National Construction Alliance, a coalition of trade unions that included the union representing a crew working on a deck repair job the day of the collapse. One worker was the 13th victim recovered from the wreckage.

Kaniewski said the workers should have been replacing the bridge, not repairing it.

"We believe they were doing the wrong job," he said.

Full Text At:
http://www.twincities.com/collapse/ci_6812158

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I-35W bridge runoff created 4-foot-by-6-foot hole
By Tony Kennedy, Star Tribune

quote:
Water runoff from the I-35W bridge created a 4-foot-by-6-foot hole in the ground near one of the bridge's concrete support piers weeks before the bridge collapsed, a Minnesota Department of Transportation spokesman said Tuesday.
Crews filled the hole with cement and the washout didn't affect the bridge's structural integrity, MnDOT spokesman Kevin Gutknecht said.

"The pier didn't sink. The pier is mounted on bedrock," Gutknecht said. "Nothing eroded under the pier."

He described the site of the erosion as being 50 to 60 feet up the hill and away from the base of Pier 5, which stood on the west bank of the Mississippi River. When the I-35W bridge collapsed on Aug. 1, the deck first gave way above Pier 5 at the southern end of the bridge's steel truss spans.

Full Text At:
http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1401487.html

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Upside
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This might sound cold but that's gonna be one heck of a fishing spot next year with all that new structure.
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The Bigfoot
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Yah, I've had a thought or two similar. If you want a fish out of the Mighty Miss that is.

You see the Ron Schara special about Katrina the other night? Said that the flooding has giving new life to the swamplands and the fishing is better than it ever was.

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Law Firm Sues MnDOT For 35W Bridge Inspection Reports
Friday, 05 Oct 2007

Law firm wants release of documents relating to bridge collapse

quote:
MINNEAPOLIS -- The law firm of Schwebel, Goetz and Sieben filed a lawsuit Friday against the Minnesota Department of Transportation seeking documents related to the 35W bridge collapse. The suit is an attempt to force MnDOT to comply with the Minnesota Government Data Practices Act.
.....
Full Text At:
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4556697&version =2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Also, for a close up view of the work that was going on a few days before the collapse, watch the uppermost video in the "Sidebar" on the middle right side of the webpage.

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NR
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Also worth visiting:

MnDOT "Interstate 35W Bridge Photos"

quote:
These photos are being used to document the recovery efforts and in the ongoing investigation of the collapse.
Images are available on the MnDOT website at:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i35wbridge/photos/

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glassman
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hey BF... you read wheel of time too?

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The Bigfoot
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Yes Glass,

I am big into fantasy literature. George R. R. Martin is my current favorite but Jordan is right up there. A very hard end for him. He deserves to be remembered.

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Missing MnDOT official fired
Scott Wente, Bemidji Pioneer
November 10, 2007

quote:
ST. PAUL — Minnesota’s transportation emergency management director was fired Friday in part because she remained on the East Coast 10 days after an Aug. 1 Minneapolis bridge collapse.

Minnesota Department of Transportation officials fired Sonia Morphew Pitt, 43, of Red Wing after an investigation found she abused work-related travel privileges and did not return to the Twin Cities as her agency responded to the Interstate 35W bridge disaster.

According to her termination letter, Pitt attended an emergency management conference in Boston July 31-Aug. 4, but extended the trip with stops in Washington, D.C., before and after the conference

Full Text At:
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/articles/index.cfm?id=12013§ion=news

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Design flaw cited in bridge collapse
By FREDERIC J. FROMMER, Associated Press Writer
Jan. 15, 2008

quote:

.....

The connectors, called gusset plates, were roughly half the 1-inch thickness they should have been because of a design error, NTSB Chairman Mark Rosenker said. Investigators found 16 fractured gusset plates from the bridge's center span.

"It is the undersizing of the design which we believe is the critical factor here. It is the critical factor that began the process of this collapse. That's what failed," Rosenker said at a news conference.

.....

Rosenker noted that structural weight had been added to the Minneapolis bridge in two major renovations, in the 1970s and 1990s.

"When they added the weight they didn't realize they were bringing the margins of safety down to where they didn't exist anymore," he said.

Rosenker said that construction materials on the bridge the day it collapsed, which were part of a resurfacing project, added about 300 tons and were on the same side where failure of the bridge began.

Asked if the construction was the tipping point, Rosenker said, "I'm not ruling it in, and I'm not ruling it out." That will be left to the final report to determine, he said.

Full Text At:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080115/ap_on_go_ot/bridge_collapse_ntsb;_ylt=Ahd98E Xpq1wzx.YIIjNaBsOs0NUE

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