PATRICK CONDON, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago
MINNEAPOLIS - An interstate bridge suddenly broke into huge sections and collapsed into the Mississippi River during bumper-to-bumper traffic Wednesday, killing at least six people and sending vehicles, tons of concrete and twisted metal crashing into the water.
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The Interstate 35W bridge, a major link between Minneapolis and St. Paul, was in the midst of being repaired when it collapsed.
"There were two lanes of traffic, bumper to bumper, at the point of the collapse. Those cars did go into the river," Minneapolis Police Lt. Amelia Huffman. "At this point there is nothing to suggest that this was anything other than a structural collapse."
Jamie Winegar of Houston said she was sitting in traffic when all of a sudden she started hearing "boom, boom, boom and we were just dropping, dropping, dropping, dropping."
The car she was riding in landed on top of a smaller car but did not fall into the water. She said her nephew yelled, "'It's an earthquake!' and then we realized the bridge was collapsing."
Mayor R.T. Rybak said at least six people were killed. There were no immediate reports on the total number of injured, but Dr. Joseph Clinton, emergency medical chief at Hennepin County Medical Center, said the hospital treated 28 injured people — including six who were in critical condition.
Other hospitals also were treating the injured. Clinton said at least one of the victims had drowned.
The arched bridge, which was built in 1967, rises about 64 feet above the river. An estimated 50 vehicles plunged into the water and onto the land below, the Star-Tribune reported.
A burning truck and a school bus clung to one slanted slab. The bus had just crossed the bridge before it crumpled into pieces, and broadcast reports indicated the children on the bus exited out the back door.
Christine Swift's 10-year-old daughter, Kaleigh, was on the bus, returning from a field trip to Bunker Hills in suburban Blaine. She said her daughter called her about 6:10 p.m.
"She was screaming, 'The bridge collapsed,'" Swift said.
She said a police officer told her all the kids got off the bus safely.
Dozens of vehicles were scattered and stacked on top of each other amid the rubble. Some people were stranded on parts of the bridge that aren't completely in the water.
Melissa Hughes, 32, of Minneapolis said she was driving home across the bridge when she went down when the western edge in the collapse.
"You know that free fall feeling? I felt that twice," said Hughes, who was not injured.
A pickup ended up on top of her car, partially crushing the top and back end.
"I had no idea there was a vehicle on my car," she said. "It's really very surreal."
Many motorist could have been headed to the Minnesota Twins game scheduled not far from the bridge, but the game was postponed, team president Dave St. Peter said.
Ramon Houge told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that he was on his way home from work on the bridge when he heard a rumbling noise, saw the ground collapse and cars go down.
Traffic was bumper to bumper and hundreds of people would have been involved, he said. He said cars backed up as best they could and he parked in a construction zone and was finally able to turn around and drive off the bridge. "It didn't seem like it was real," he said.
Local television stations captured video of injured people being carried up the riverbank. There was no official word on injuries, but dozens of rescue vehicles were there. Divers were also in the water.
Workers have been repairing the 40-year-old bridge's surface as part of improvements along that stretch of the interstate, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported on its Web site.
Homeland Security Department spokesman Russ Knocke also said the collapse did not appear to be terrorism-related.
Posted by rimasco on :
I know theres a couple of guys on the board from the area.....hope all is well
Posted by glassman on :
the Greenville MS to Lake Village Ark bridge is bad, really bad ... the good news is they are almost done with a new one...
Posted by jordanreed on :
ok, here
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: ok, here
good to know, thanks...
my daughter's friend is OK, which is how I found out.
Man, looks as though the newer of the two bridges gave way
Posted by BooDog on :
Terrible tragedy. My prayers go out to all the families and friends of those involved.
Posted by bdgee on :
I used to be involved in studies of bridge maintenance. There are tens of thousands of bridges across the country, small to huge, both modern and not, that fail to get routine maintenance and even inspection.
Bridge failure is not uncommon and usually it isn't a matter of design flaw or inadequate construction, but failure due to lack of proper maintenance, as often as not, because no one bothered to look to see that repainting was needed or realized the bolts need to be re-torqued periodically or abutments and footings can become undermined by water.
I recall years back driving across a bridge in western most Tennessee and a couple or three hours later down the road hearing on the car's radio that it had collapsed. As I drove across, I had remarked that I had seen it on a list of bridges that didn't get proper inspection and could be in danger of failing. (That announcement from the radio put a hush on conversation for the remained of our trip.) It wasn't as big a bridge or on so large a highway as this one on I35, but several people were killed as their cars dropped into the river below.
A bridge, though it looks solid and modern, can be just barely sound at times. Some witness reports are saying that the highway surface crews were working with a jack hammer when the bridge fell. I wonder what happened to those workmen?
Posted by jordanreed on :
do i hear ...lawsuits?
Posted by rimasco on :
Theyre saying all but one are acounted for. I wonder if the vibrations from the jack-hammer could have caused?
"Every substance has a resonant frequency which is demonstrated by the principle of sympathetic vibration&endash;the most obvious example is the wine glass shattered by an opera singer (or a tape recording for you couch potatoes.) If this frequency is matched and amplified, any material may be literally shaken to pieces."
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Glad the wife and I chose light-rail to get to the ball game last night.
Had a friend at the game watch it happen in her rear view mirror!
Only thing crazier than the bridge going down to me is the fact that the death toll so far is so low. That is one of the main arteries for Minneapolis and a very long drop. Thank God two lanes were closed off for construction.
Posted by glassman on :
who are they gonna sue?
this bridge was found to be structurally "deficient" in its last inspection...
this problem is nationwide...
i'm not an engineer, but (for instance) it doesn't take one to know that if you see (even a little) rust (which i do all the time) you have problems... the rust you can see is often all the way thru, even on heavy plate, like ships hulls...
Upkeep costs rise as USA's bridges age
Updated 10/20/2006 12:02 AM ETNortheastern states face a tremendous challenge in paying for the cost of rebuilding those older bridges, and with their limited resources they're trying to keep them serviceable," says Frank Moretti, director of policy and research for TRIP, a Washington D.C.-based research group that supports highway construction to relieve congestion, make travel safer and spur economic productivity.
The "real danger," Moretti says, isn't that bridges will weaken or collapse but "economic ... getting so far behind the need to make repairs that the costs become prohibitive."
The Federal Highway Administration puts the current cost of upgrading bridges at $63 billion. According to TRIP's analysis of the agency's data from 2005, 26% of U.S. bridges need major repairs or aren't designed to handle current traffic levels. Among the 11 Northeastern states, 39% of bridges fall under those descriptions.
we've known since the 90's that we are falling behind fast on bridge and road maintenance nationwide...
One big-ticket item: repairing or replacing the 51-year-old Tappan Zee Bridge across the Hudson north of the GW. Minor fixes would cost an estimated $500 million. A new bridge with a commuter rail line would cost about $13 billion.
"It is essential that the nation have good, safe bridges," says William Millar, president of the American Public Transportation Association, a Washington D.C.-based trade group. "But it's equally essential we have a good highway system, a good public-transit system. ... We need to invest much more." Posted 10/19/2006 10:42 PM ET Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Glad the wife and I chose light-rail to get to the ball game last night.
Had a friend at the game watch it happen in her rear view mirror!
Only thing crazier than the bridge going down to me is the fact that the death toll so far is so low. That is one of the main arteries for Minneapolis and a very long drop. Thank God two lanes were closed off for construction.
Rail? For safety over highways, with respect to bridge failure?
Have you forgotten the tressel failure a couple of years back that dumped a passenger train into a South Alabama swamp? That's only one example, but one that got LOTS of media attention.
It isn't only highway bridges that get left out of concern, in fact, the problem is even worse with rail bridges.
This problem has been known since the 60s and during the Clinton White House was finally granted some attention (not enough, but some), but has been completely orphaned since, with fundings diverted instead to Iraq.
Posted by rimasco on :
Sick thing is, Seems like our whole infrastructure is dated.... I had this argument with my friends about the steam pipe that exploded in manhattan. They seem to think nobody(con ed) is responsible for an 84 year old pipe exploding. Killing 1 and maybe 2 more.
In their own words "your crazy, they would have to close down blocks and it would cost way to much money. And how do they supply these buildings with power?"
My response: "I forgot con ed was a non profit org."
Posted by glassman on :
i blame it on the corporations...
they are moving out of the country and building new where it's cheaper...
funny how we spent half-a-trillion on a country that doesn't want it huh?
how many American jobs would half-a-trillion over five years create?
lessee? the levees broke in New Orleans cuz they weren't up to spec... and at the other end of the Mississississississippi the bridge collapsed...
our politicians get their homes built and remodeled by oil pipeline co's (Sen Stevens) while the oil is leaking all over the tundra from leaky pipes? i wonder if VECO was involved in the pipeline maintenance directly? they say they do PIPELINE INTEGRITY MANAGEMENT on their web-site http://www.veco.com/Services/PipelineIntegrity/Default.asp
and they build bridges to nowhere while the others rot?
it's time for change....
Posted by rimasco on :
The funny part was when I said Bush and company should be charged with war crimes. LMAO if you could only see their faces...one of my friends was really drunk and got angry. Yes it was hysterical. Thak go he has no clue what hes talking about
I told him...if "most" other countries would have pulled the moves we did..... at this point their president/dictator/king would be on trial at this point.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yes, it's time for a change, but a word FOR the politicians here.
It's hard to get votes from people that see what they think are solid bridges and hear of you voting millions to fund "inspections" of those bridges. Bridge inspection doesn't get attention because the public raises hell if money is spent.
There has been entirely too much (primarily from the republican party's mantra and religious dogma) BS about cutting taxes to have much chance of providing proper maintenance to not just our highways, but most of the nations infrastructure.
Posted by rimasco on :
Not saying that China has it right (FDA situation). But if there's any signs of negligence or "tom foolerey" sombody should swing.
Posted by cottonjim on :
OK here, called all my friends and family to make sure they were OK also, tragic day.
Posted by rimasco on :
good to hear cj....tragic and sureal
Posted by cottonjim on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Glad the wife and I chose light-rail to get to the ball game last night.
Had a friend at the game watch it happen in her rear view mirror!
Only thing crazier than the bridge going down to me is the fact that the death toll so far is so low. That is one of the main arteries for Minneapolis and a very long drop. Thank God two lanes were closed off for construction.
I was on my way to the game from 35W from the south when it happened, I drove over that bridge, with all my kids in the car, going to an Angels game last week. Creepy feeling.
Posted by rimasco on :
CJ, you hear anything that maybe the media aint disclosing?
Posted by rimasco on :
Police: More victims in submerged cars By JON KRAWCZYNSKI, Associated Press Writers 8 minutes ago
MINNEAPOLIS - Divers checked submerged cars in the Mississippi River Thursday for a count the victims still trapped beneath the twisted steel and concrete slabs of a collapsed bridge. As many as 30 people were reported missing as the rescue effort shifted to recovery.
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The official death count stood at four Thursday morning, but Police Chief Tim Dolan said more bodies were in the water. Hospital officials counted 79 others injured.
"We have a number of vehicles that are underneath big pieces of concrete, and we do know we have some people in those vehicles," Dolan said. "We know we do have more casualties at the scene."
The eight-lane Interstate 35W bridge, a major Minneapolis artery, was in the midst of repairs when the bridge buckled during the evening rush hour Wednesday. Dozens of cars plummeted more than 60 feet into the Mississippi River, some falling on top one of another. A school bus sat on the angled concrete.
Under water, divers were taking down license plate numbers for authorities to track down the vehicles' owners. Getting the vehicles out was expected to take several days and involve moving around very large, heavy pieces of bridge.
"The bridge is still shifting," Dolan said. "We're dealing with the Mississippi River. We're dealing with currents. We're going to have to do it slowly and safely."
He said police estimate that 20 to 30 people were unaccounted for, though he stressed that it was just an estimate.
At Hennepin County Medical Center, patients had arrived in a steady stream after the collapse, some unconscious or moaning, some barely breathing, others with serious head and back injuries, Dr. William Heegaard said.
"There was blood everywhere," he said.
Relatives who couldn't find their loved ones at hospitals gathered in a hotel ballroom Thursday morning for any news, hoping for the best.
"I've never wanted to see my brother so much in my life," said Kristi Foster, who went to an information center set up at a Holiday Inn looking for her brother Kirk. She hadn't had contact with her brother or his girlfriend, Krystle Webb, since the previous night.
Authorities initially said at least seven people had died, but Police Lt. Amelia Huffman lowered that number Thursday morning, saying, "The medical examiner's office only has four sets of remains." She said the initial reports were based on the best estimates authorities had.
As many as 50 vehicles tumbled into the river when the bridge collapsed, leaving those who could escape to scramble to shore. Some survivors carried the injured up the riverbank, while emergency workers tended to others on the ground and some jumped into the water to look for survivors. Fire and black smoke rose from the wreckage.
The Homeland Security Department said the collapse did not appear to be terrorism-related, but Hennepin County Sheriff Richard Stanek said Thursday that the cause was still unknown.
"All indications are that it was a collapse, not an act of someone doing it," Stanek said.
The first step of the federal investigation will be to recover pieces of the bridge and reassemble them, kind of like a jigsaw puzzle, to try and determine what happened, NTSB Chairman Mark Rosenker said.
Investigators also want to review video of the collapse, and were setting up a phone number for witnesses to call with information.
"It is clearly much too early in the initial stages of this investigation to have any idea what happened," he said.
The bridge was crowded with traffic, and a train had been passing beneath the roadway at the time it fell. One car carrying a chemical, polystyrene beads, hit the water, but the fire chief said was not particularly hazardous.
As the divers worked their way around at least a dozen submerged vehicles, Transportation Secretary Mary Peters announced a $5 million grant to help pay for rerouting traffic patterns around the disaster site.
"We fully understand what happened and we will take every step possible to ensure something like this will not happen again," Peters said.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., said up to $100 million in federal funds will also be available for rebuilding and recovery.
"A bridge in America just shouldn't fall down," Klobuchar said. "That's why we have called for this investigation."
In 2005, the 40-year-old bridge had been rated as "structurally deficient" and possibly in need of replacement, according to a federal database. The span rated 50 on a scale of 120 for structural stability in that review, White House press secretary Tony Snow said.
Gov. Tim Pawlenty, however, said Thursday that there was no indication from that and other reviews that the bridge should be shut down. Peters added that "none of those ratings indicated there was any kind of danger."
This week, road crews had been working on the bridge's joints, guardrails and lights, with lane closures overnight on Tuesday and Wednesday. In 2001, the bridge had been fitted with a computerized anti-icing system that sprayed chemicals on the surface during winter weather, according to documents posted on the Minnesota Department of Transportation's Web site.
Wednesday evening, 18 construction workers were on the bridge when it collapsed, said Tom Sloan, head of the bridge division for Progressive Contractors Inc., in St. Michael.
The crew was placing concrete finish on the bridge for what he called a routine resurfacing project. "It was the final item on this phase of the project. Suddenly the bridge gave way," he said.
"They said they basically rode the bridge down to the water. They were sliding into cars and cars were sliding into them," he said. One of the workers was unaccounted for, he said.
The school bus had just crossed the bridge when the entire span of Interstate 35W crumpled into the river below. The bus stayed on concrete, and the children were able to escape unharmed out the back door.
Christine Swift's 10-year-old daughter, Kaleigh, was on the bus, returning from a field trip to Bunker Hills in Blaine. She said her daughter called her about 6:10 p.m.
"She was screaming, 'The bridge collapsed,'" Swift said. All the kids got off the bus safely, but about 10 of the children were injured, officials said.
The collapsed bridge is just blocks from the heart of Minneapolis, near tourist attractions like the new Guthrie Theater and the Stone Arch Bridge. As the steamy night progressed massive crowds of onlookers circulated in the area on foot or bicycle, some of them wearing Twins T-shirts and caps after departing Wednesday night's game at the nearby Metrodome early.
Thursday's game between the Twins and Kansas City Royals was called off, but the Twins decided to go ahead with Wednesday's rather than sending about 25,000 fans back out onto the congested highways. Inside the stadium, there was a moment of silence to honor victims.
The steel-arched bridge, built in 1967, rose 64 feet above the river and stretched 1,900 feet across the water. It was built with a single 458-foot-long steel arch to avoid the need for piers that might interfere with river navigation.
The river's depth at the bridge was not immediately available, but the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers maintains a channel depth of at least 9 feet in the Upper Mississippi to allow for barge traffic.
___
Posted by cottonjim on :
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: CJ, you hear anything that maybe the media aint disclosing?
Nothing more than you are hearing.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yeah, it's all rumors and speculation right now. I did here about one guy who's delivery truck got hung up on the cliff (probably saved his life.) He climbed back up the cliff with a few broken ribs. He said emergency crews were quick to help but that he was disgusted with the way the media was circling the wounded looking for stories.
Posted by rimasco on :
Sounds like them. I wasnt one bit surprised when those helicopters colided.
Posted by glassman on :
note the date:
Tuesday, June 20, 2000 States Must Step Up Bridge Repair Funding, Report Says By John Nagy, Staff Writer
Incremental improvements on the nation's roadway bridges have left nearly three in ten in need of renovation or repair and states may need to pick up more of the tab, according to a new independent analysis of Federal Highway Administration data.
(TRIP), a non-profit highway research group based in Washington, D.C., which conducted the analysis of data collected through December 1999.
"None of the bridges on the [FHWA] list are in imminent danger of collapsing. We're not talking about dangerous bridges and loss of life. We're talking about ... deficient bridges that need investment by the states and federal government in order to maintain and improve them," Haaland said.
State and federal government bridge expenditures stand at about $6.1 billion annually. TRIP's conclusions, released June 7, support recent indications from the U.S. Department of Transportation that an additional $4.5 billion would be needed each year for the next 20 years to substantially reduce the number of flawed structures.
hmmm...
While one in three locally maintained bridges needs work, the percentage of outdated interstate bridges is significantly lower, about 4.1 percent, she said.
At least half of the bridges in Hawaii, Massachusetts and Rhode Island are "deficient" either structurally unsound or out-of-sync with current road construction standards according to the report.
More than a third of the bridges in fourteen more states fall into the same category. Those states are Alabama, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Vermont and West Virginia.
Among states with the fewest deficient bridges were Arizona (10 percent) Delaware, Minnesota and Nevada (each at 16 percent).
and Minnesota.... sheesh...
i suppose they underestimated huh? "None of the bridges on the [FHWA] list are in imminent danger of collapsing. We're not talking about dangerous bridges and loss of life. We're talking about ... deficient bridges that need investment by the states and federal government in order to maintain and improve them," Haaland said.
how many more "accidents" are just waiting?
Posted by rimasco on :
Does Arizona even have bridges....being that, ITS A DESERT!!?
Posted by glassman on :
yep... there's a big old bridge at the CA border..it's at Needles...
Posted by jordanreed on :
dont know of anyone involved in the collapse, however the woman i'm working for today,hasnt heard from her friend since this happened. and he uses that bridge. Doesnt look good. sad
Posted by rimasco on :
Well heres the thing they said 50 cars may have plunged...so you figure about 75 people plus the 18 construction workers
unfortunatley I think the toll is gonna at least triple from 7..... Posted by bdgee on :
'Deferred Maintenance,' Tumbledown Bridges, and Bathtubs by Meteor Blades Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 11:22:38 AM PDT
As I noted here last night, any good reporter with a few years on a city, county or state government beat will tell you that events like the tragic collapse of the 35W bridge over the Mississippi River between Minneapolis and St. Paul are inevitable. Not that anybody knows for certain which bridges will fail. Only that some will.
As media reports and Diarists SanJoseLady, Phoenix Woman, Rena F, Joel Hirschhorn, karateexplosions, Bill Tchakirides, ray bob, davidkc, CarrieICL, DuvalDem, Tony Barr PA09, Misery Gore, and mmcintee in the seminal Repairs on Bridge Were Delayed are showing, the 35W bridge collapse was, as the cliché has it, an accident waiting to happen. A tragedy courtesy of politicians who, in their own ways, follow Grover Norquist's dictum of reducing government until it's small enough to drown in the bathtub. And of passing out massive tax cuts, mostly to people who need them least.
It's not just bridges. As the American Society of Civil Engineers Infrastructure Report Card 2005 points out, we're $1.6 trillion behind in infrastructure investment. That, by the way, is the amount of tax cuts Mister Bush tried to get passed in 2001, before he had the Global War on Terrorism™ with which to shape his legacy. Congress "compromised" and gave him only $1.35 trillion, tax cuts that writer Robert Freeman once labeled a "national form of insanity."
What the ASCE's report points out is that bridges aren't our only problem:
Dams (D+) Since 1998, the number of unsafe dams has risen by 33% to more than 3,500. While federally owned dams are in good condition, and there have been modest gains in repair, the number of dams identified as unsafe is increasing at a faster rate than those being repaired. $10.1 billion is needed over the next 12 years to address all critical non-federal dams--dams which pose a direct risk to human life should they fail. ...
Drinking Water (D-) America faces a shortfall of $11 billion annually to replace aging facilities and comply with safe drinking water regulations. Federal funding for drinking water in 2005 remained level at $850 million, less than 10% of the total national requirement. The Bush administration has proposed the same level of funding for FY06. ...
Schools (D) The Federal government has not assessed the condition of America's schools since 1999, when it estimated that $127 billion was needed to bring facilities to good condition. Other sources have since reported a need as high as $268 billion. Despite public support of bond initiatives to provide funding for school facilities, without a clear understanding of the need, it is uncertain whether schools can meet increasing enrollment demands and the smaller class sizes mandated by the No Child Left Behind Act. ...
Transit (D+)Transit use increased faster than any other mode of transportation--up 21%--between 1993 and 2002. Federal investment during this period stemmed the decline in the condition of existing transit infrastructure. The reduction in federal investment in real dollars since 2001 threatens this turnaround. In 2002, total capital outlays for transit were $12.3 billion. The Federal Transit Administration estimates $14.8 billion is needed annually to maintain conditions, and $20.6 billion is needed to improve to "good" conditions. Meanwhile, many major transit properties are borrowing funds to maintain operations, even as they are significantly raising fares and cutting back service. ...
Wastewater (D-) Aging wastewater management systems discharge billions of gallons of untreated sewage into U.S. surface waters each year. The EPA estimates that the nation must invest $390 billion over the next 20 years to replace existing systems and build new ones to meet increasing demands. Yet, in 2005, Congress cut funding for wastewater management for the first time in eight years. The Bush administration has proposed a further 33% reduction, to $730 million, for FY06.
This ought to be a no-brainer.
It's understandable in impoverished Chad or Haiti or East Timor or the back-country of the People's Republic of China. But there is no excuse for lethal tumbledown infrastructure in this country. Congress gave Mister Bush $1.35 trillion in tax cuts. Congress has appropriated $600 billion (so far, with more to come) for a war that should never have happened. Congress enables the military-industrial complex to vacuum up additional hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars annually. Congress just approved $25 billion in annual farm subsidies, the vast majority of which go to rich farmers.
And on, and on. It's not just the Feds, obviously. In state after state, the bathtub drowners argue for tax cuts which ensure that this shameful deterioration of American infrastructure will continue. Every old bridge that falls down is, symbolically and actually, a testament to their vision.
Budget-minded Bush threatens to veto highway funding bill Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Feb 4, 2004 by JIM ABRAMS
Budget-minded Bush threatens to veto highway funding bill
By JIM ABRAMS Associated Press
Wednesday, February 4, 2004
Washington -- Trying to restrain spending, the Bush administration on Tuesday threatened to veto a huge highway funding bill that would ensure building projects for almost every member of Congress and provide a jolt of jobs to the economy.
Lawmakers from both parties said the six-year, $318 billion bill before the Senate was must-pass legislation in an election year when few major bills are expected to pass.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), who urged the Senate to finish the bill by next week, said it could create up to 2 million jobs.
there's been a few that have been trying to get more money for US instead of Iraq:
State sounds alarm over road funding By Elisa Crouch ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH 07/30/2007
Missouri's top transportation official is canvassing the state talking about a "perfect storm" forming over his department.
Road construction costs are spiking, debt payments are ballooning, and at the same time, fuel taxes are generating slightly less cash and the federal highway trust fund is speeding toward a multibillion-dollar deficit.
The combination means that by 2010, the Missouri Department of Transportation could have just $569 million a year to pay contractors for road and bridge work. That's down from the $1.23 billion that MoDOT is spending this year on those jobs.
"We're going to return to a position when money available for our road program will be less in 2010 than it was in 2004," Transportation Director Pete Rahn said recently in St. Louis. Posted by bdgee on :
Yep.
It's been the norm in all these "no tax" packages.
Ignore maintenance and only nod at construction needs.
I remember a research paper on highways I participated in years back wherein the conclusion was that every dollar "saved" by not doing highway maintenance resulted in a need for $17 per year therafter (each year), forever in replacement cost. And it snowballs......
Posted by NaturalResources on :
At the NTSB press meeting they said they were interested in the southern portion of the bridge because the deck seems to have collapsed in one direction and the support structure below fell in the other.
Although it is just barely out of view, it looks like the southern part of the bridge collapses first in the surveillance video.
If you go to the MDOT website, you can view a live image from a traffic cam #628 * I-35 and Washington Avenue that is just a few hundred feet away from the southern portion of the collapsed bridge looking down on where the deck used to be, so I imagine this won't be the only video of the event we end up seeing.
According to several news reports, 2 lanes in both directions were closed at the time due to construction with an additional one to be closed this week.
Based on numerous pictures and video via Yahoo, AP and BBC sources, it appears that the section being worked on at the time was near the southern side close to where the collapse appears to have first started.
.....
Here is a picture from 2006 taken from approximately the same angle as the surveillance video that captured the collapse. Note the corrosion on the main support truss and the discoloration of the concrete support pillar below it...
IMO, in the end they will find it was a combination of corrosion and fatigue, coupled with construction and a heavy traffic load that brought this bridge down.
Posted by glassman on :
corosion...
my experience in the Navy ( and several of my own boats) is that what you see is (like an iceberg) only a small portion...
when i moved from Ca to Ne? i had a sort of a shock when i looked at cars just 5 years old in NE.. the raod salt had corroded every bit of exposed steel or iron... from the engine to the trailer hitches....
salting the roads in winter not much choice, but you can't leave it exposed...
Posted by glassman on :
i read a good book a couple years back on the history of the Miss River and how our management of it began.... it includes discussions of the first bridge built and the levees and how the politics worked when they created the Army Corps of Engineers i give it a 4 of five stars:
Book Review -- John M. Barry, Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America, 1997
Simon & Schuster, New York, N.Y. $27.50. 524 pp.
Richard Brownlow, 3L
John Barry's Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America is an excellent examination of a dramatic event in American history. The flood of 1927 highlighted futile attempts to control nature, end a way of life in the Mississippi-Yazoo delta, and marked an end of the driving force behind New Orleans, the powerful banking establishment.
Barry successfully describes efforts to control the Mississippi River, explains the connection between the Mississippi delta culture and the river, and examines the enormous influence powerful banking families had over decisions affecting New Orleans. Barry tells each story against the powerful backdrop of the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, on of the most devastating natural events of this century. The Mississippi River flood of 1993 which devastated the Midwest carried one million cubic feet of water per second while the 1927 flood carried an excess of three million cubic feet of water per second. Extreme amounts of rain throughout the Midwest in the Fall of 1926 followed by record setting snowstorms that resulted in drifts ten feet tall set the stage for the flood to come. On April 21, 1927, these forces came to bear at Mounds Landing, a small ferry station on the Mississippi a few miles north of Greenville, MS. http://www.olemiss.edu/orgs/SGLC/MS-AL/book.htm Posted by glassman on :
does this sound vaguely familiar?
In the late 1920's, New Orleans was controlled by powerful banking families, all members of the clubs, who exerted enormous control over business and political decisions affecting the city. As a result of having this power, members of these clubs decided to intentionally dynamite the levee to lower the flood level in New Orleans and protect the commerce of the city. The Corps originally proposed destroying the levee in the wake of the 1922 flood when they advised the New Orleans financial com... Posted by NaturalResources on :
Disbelief gave way to action for first responders By David Chanen, Star Tribune
.....
quote:At the site, Hoeppner talked to construction workers who survived the fall. They had been doing repair work but expressed concern to him that the bridge had been wobbling several days before it collapsed. Every layer of concrete the workers removed, the bridge would wobble even more, they told Hoeppner.
quote:Executive Summary: If bridge replacement is significantly delayed, the bridge should be re-decked. The design of main river spans do not allow for deck widening. Any re-decking contract should also include a complete re-painting of the superstructure elimination of the hinge joint in span #2, and reconfiguration of the deck drainage system.
.....
Inquiry looks at work on bridge Construction was under way on Minnesota span
quote:The contract required Progressive to repair the bridge deck, replace the concrete surface and expansion joints and work on the anti-icing system, said Minnesota Department of Transportation spokesman Kevin Gutknecht.
Company officials said the crew was preparing to pour a 2-inch layer of concrete when the span gave way.
.....
Looks to me like, (with the exception of superstructure repainting), MDOT WAS doing proper maintenance on the I-35W bridge.... at least according to a report prepared by a certified Structural Engineer....
However, I have done inspection work myself (not on bridges, but other steel structures), and I speak first hand when I say the inspection process is totally inadequate.
quote:COOKSVILLE, Md. - The main protection against collapsing bridges in America are the eyes and ears of inspectors like Jody Ferris, who on Friday was checking a repaired weld on a 34-year-old bridge with some pretty low-tech tools: flashlight, hammer, ruler and camera.
Experience is what counts, said Ferris' boss, Joe Miller of the Maryland Department or Transportation. "Nothing is better than the human element."
Many in the industry disagree, and a federal test of bridge inspectors gives them reason for concern. On one bridge, a fifth of the inspectors missed serious problems.
IMO, the solution is a combination of more frequent and thorough inspections by better trained inspectors, coupled with a new type of electronic monitoring that can 'see' where it is difficult or impossible to inspect with the naked eye.
[ August 06, 2007, 18:51: Message edited by: NaturalResources ]
Posted by glassman on :
IMO, the solution is a combination of more frequent and thorough inspections by better trained inspectors, coupled with a new type of electronic monitoring that can 'see' where it is difficult or impossible to inspect with the naked eye.
i wonder if there's thermal imaging or sonic imaging that can detect "defects" i know that Xrays can, but they are not very safe...
Posted by BooDog on :
Just heard. Terrible. I hope they can get to them.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i wonder if there's thermal imaging or sonic imaging that can detect "defects" i know that Xrays can, but they are not very safe...
As I understand it, there are methods using both radiometric (XRAY) and ultrasonic, but they are small-scale and are less accurate when being used on "in place" objects.
While ultrasonic and radiometric methods give more information about the integrity of any given bridge support member, identification of members to be testing using these methods is still provided by visual inspection.
There are some pretty good articles here on various bridge inspection topics in PDF format.
they showed some seriously worn out pins in there!
However, the results from the field ultrasonic testing were found to be quite accurate, given the logistical challenges present in the acquisition of field ultrasonic data.
sounds like ulrasound has SOME uses here...
when i raced? i used to have all my newly acquired (even tho they were actually used) engine blocks magnafluxed before i built them, and after i had major blow-ups...
it was done in a tank
apparently there is now a dry version of magnafluxing too... that could be done on site...
seems to me there might be some investment opportunities in this area..
Posted by NaturalResources on :
A. We take a magnetized yoke and put it on either side of where we think the crack is, and that polarizes one side from the other. You sprinkle metal filings right on the surface. Magnetizing will polarize those metal filings, and they'll line up. Where you have a crack, there will be a discontinuity. You'll see a nice crack where there aren't any metal filings. That will also detect a minor subsurface crack.
I did a little digging on the topic. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Germany is ahead of us in this area of research... Just look at the engineering behind the Autobahn.
this one is pretty scary to cross,,
Posted by glassman on :
today i started hearing about a "design flaw" in the bridge gussets... Possible flaw identified in I-35W bridge design
Federal officials concentrate on a possible design flaw and warn bridge engineers nationwide to watch weight of construction work.
By Tony Kennedy, Mike Kaszuba, Paul McEnroe and Dan Browning, Star Tribune
Last update: August 09, 2007 – 10:42 AM
Opening a new window into last week's fatal bridge collapse, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said that one of its areas of inquiry involves the design of steel connecting plates known as gusset plates; the material makeup of those plates; and the loads and stresses they bore. Hours later, Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters said the NTSB indicated that the stress on the bridge's gusset plates may have been a factor in the bridge collapse
Article Last Updated: 08/04/2007 11:27:08 PM CDT "We need to look at the design. It's all in the design," Kurt Fuhrman said during an interview Saturday at his Rosemount home. "I'm not a designer. I'm an inspector."
of course the person whose responsibility this was would say this, but i heard Bush "latch on" to it today....
THE PRESIDENT: First of all, Secretary Peters is gathering information and will report to the White House and report to the nation about what she finds about whether there are any structural design flaws that may be applicable to other bridges. She's in the process of gathering this information now.
he says it as if it's already a foregone conclusion.... it isn't... these gussets have not been suspect before now....
gussets are "little" plates that connect beams..
i don't like hearing this...
it puts the "blame" back on the designer instead of on poor planned maintenance...
which in turn takes the blame off of the politicians that are ignoring the funding to do proper maintenance...
this picture shows gussets:
they are the rectangular plates..
usually on bridges they have rivets in them....
Posted by NaturalResources on :
As state money diminished, so did goals for bridge safety
MnDOT officials said they revised goals to adjust to what other states were doing.
By Mike Kaszuba and Laurie Blake, Star Tribune staff writers
quote:After setting an ambitious goal in the late 1990s of keeping 65 percent of Minnesota's bridges in good condition, state transportation officials retreated from the target as they fell behind in their efforts to reach it. The top bridge engineer in the Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT) said the agency began discussing lowering the goal in 2003 and later dropped it to 55 percent, a reversal that came as MnDOT faced mounting financial challenges.
Though MnDOT officials said the goal was revised to reflect what other states were doing, and not to lower any safety standards, some legislators said the change is one more sign of how a beleaguered department was forced to align its expectations with dwindling financial resources.
As of last year, MnDOT was falling short of even its lowered goal.
Plans to reinforce the bridge were well underway when the project came to a screeching halt in January amid concerns about safety and cost.
By Tony Kennedy and Paul McEnroe, Star Tribune staff writers
quote:The men and women whose job was to ensure the safety of Bridge 9340 were meeting once again. Just after noon on Dec. 6, they filed into a conference room in Roseville to divvy up the final prep work for a dangerous steel reinforcement project high above the Mississippi River.
A senior engineer was going to pull property records in order to contact landowners beneath the bridge. Detours were coming for West River Road. The Coast Guard was about to get heaps of paperwork on what tasks would be done from the river channel. Truck drivers would soon learn of pending weight restrictions.
It appeared that the most studied bridge in Minnesota, the focus of worrisome inspection reports for a decade, was finally going to have its most glaring weaknesses fixed.
my experience in the Navy ( and several of my own boats) is that what you see is (like an iceberg) only a small portion...
I found a picture of one of the "gusset plates" you were talking about earlier....
Posted by glassman on :
that one looks like it held, but the beams were sheared at the connection....
in '03 all the states were hurting for cash.
the state hiway patrols all across the midwest were running out of gas money and cutting back on patrols..
the housing "boom" helped fix that problem by generating alot of revenue from sales, and rising home prices increased real estate tax revenues...
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Indeed... If you read the article titled "Phone call put brakes on bridge repair" and click on the graphic, it shows the box beams near the gusset plates as the area to be reinforced.
However, this work was never done after consultants suggested in Jan of 07 that drilling for the reinforcement could significantly weaken the bridge and force it to be condemned....
Also, as I suspected, MDOT caught the event on their traffic cams shortly after it happened...
Unfortunately, the camera was facing the opposite way when the collapse occurred.
All the rain has been making recovery difficult but they are making headway. Just found another victim today. Only one missing person left.
Sad thing. The wife of the last missing guy said on the news a couple days after the collapse that her worst fear at that point was that her husband would be the last one to be found.
Premonition?
On a loosely related note... 6 people killed in southern MN this weekend due to flood from all the rain we've been getting. Bridges and houses washing away. Too much rain and too late in the season to help the farmers who have lost their crop to drought.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Pigeon dung examined in bridge collapse By MARTIGA LOHN, Associated Press Writer
quote:ST. PAUL, Minn. - Pounded and strained by heavy traffic and weakened by missing bolts and cracking steel, the failed interstate bridge over the Mississippi River also faced a less obvious enemy: pigeons.
Inspectors began documenting the buildup of pigeon dung on the span near downtown Minneapolis two decades ago. Experts say the corrosive guano deposited all over the Interstate 35W span's framework helped the steel beams rust faster.
Although investigators have yet to identify the cause of the bridge's Aug. 1 collapse, which killed at least 13 people and injured about 100, the pigeon problem is one of many factors that dogged the structure.
"There is a coating of pigeon dung on steel with nest and heavy buildup on the inside hollow box sections," inspectors wrote in a 1987-1989 report.
In 1996, screens were installed over openings in the bridge's beams to keep pigeons from nesting there, but that didn't prevent the building of droppings elsewhere.
Pigeon droppings contain ammonia and acids, said chemist Neal Langerman, an officer with the health and safety division of the American Chemical Society. If the dung isn't washed away, it dries out and turns into a concentrated salt. When water gets in and combines with the salt and ammonia, it creates small electrochemical reactions that rust the steel underneath.
just like an RNC parrot thats right, blame it on the birds... Hithcock would have been proud...
this still comes back to simple maintenance...
ever notice how clean and sparkly new cars are in the dealers lots? they can afford to have them pressure washed regularly, just go out and about at 4 AM and you'll see 'em in lots with a pressure washer in the back of pickup.......
Posted by NaturalResources on :
LOL.... I've been that guy with the pressure washer before....
I agree, Pigeon dung isn't a problem if you clean it up often and repaint the superstructure every couple years....
If I remember correctly, repainting the superstructure of the I-35W bridge was recommended by the Engineers report in 06. Oddly, while probably not as expensive as the deck replacement, repainting was not included in the project that was underway at the time the bridge collapsed.
However, even if it had been included, it probably wouldn't have mattered. Corrosion from Pigeon dung is not the kind of thing you can let fester for 10+ years and then wash it off, slap on a bandaid, and then expect everything will be ok....
IMO, even if they show that it was corrosion from Pigeon dung that weakend this bridge enough to bring it down, it still points to neglect and negligence on the part of 'those in charge' of the decision making process, (Gee, big surprise there)....
Also, the article mentioned that the NTSB was investigating into whether or not the chemicals from the automatic de-iceing system that was installed on the bridge were corrosive. Shouldn't they know this already BEFORE they install that kind of system on a bridge!?!
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Miss. River bridge closed at Memphis August 27, 2007
quote:WEST MEMPHIS, Ark. - Officials shut down a major Mississippi River bridge Monday after a pier under a small approach span settled nearly 4 inches during the night in a construction zone.
The approach span for the Interstate 40 bridge was still supported by other piers, so the most motorists might have noticed would have been a slight dip, said Randy Ort, a spokesman for the Arkansas Highway and Transportation Department.
He said the entire 1.5-mile-long bridge into downtown Memphis will remain closed until sometime Tuesday. Traffic over the river was diverted to the nearby I-55 bridge.
IMO corrosion is the main factor. The stuff they put down around here eats through anything given enough time. The trucks still dump on the bridge even with the auto system. Meaning the bridge gets a double dose.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Bridge's de-icing system coming under scrutiny August 22, 2007 By Pam Louwagie and Dan Browning, Star Tribune
quote:According to a 2001 MnDOT report, the agency chose a relatively expensive de-icing chemical called CF7, a liquid potassium acetate manufactured by Cryotech, a division of San Diego-based General Atomics. The agency said it selected the chemical, in part, "because it is safer for structural steel and reinforcing steel embedded in concrete" and is readily biodegradable.
"Also the fluid contains no nitrogen or chlorides," the report said. "Therefore, CF7 is considered much safer for the environment than glycol, urea, or chloride-based anti-icing chemicals."
MnDOT discovered that the chemical reacted with galvanized metals, however, when some was spilled on a grate. Cryotech issued a technical bulletin in 2005 saying a slow reaction can occur when potassium acetate and zinc come into prolonged contact. Zinc is used to galvanize steel.
In an update, the company said the reaction was not an issue during normal use. It cited a MnDOT project looking into whether the anti-icing chemical was creating advanced deterioration on the I-35W bridge. It concluded that the galvanization on the bridge components was thick enough.
Cryotech could not be reached for comment on Wednesday.
Posted by glassman on :
the Hernando de soto Bridge in Memphis was just closed due to usnpecified problems found upon inspection...
this is the Interstate 40 bridge in Memphis...
this is a major US artery
Posted by NaturalResources on :
I-35w Bridge Collapse / Engineer doubts fatigue is culprit BY JASON HOPPIN
quote:In testimony before Congress on Wednesday, the state's top bridge engineer indicated that fatigue does not appear to be the cause of the Interstate 35W bridge collapse.
The Minnesota Department of Transportation has been under scrutiny since revelations that several months before the Aug. 1 collapse - which killed 13 people - the agency opted for further inspections rather than a bridge repair initially recommended by engineering consultants.
"Up to this time, fatigue has not been identified as an issue," said Dan Dorgan, bridge engineer for MnDOT, cautioning that the National Transportation Safety Board still needs to complete its investigation.
The bridge was the subject of two exhaustive studies, both of which looked into hairline cracks that inspectors found in steel on its approach spans. Video of the collapse shows the center span over the Mississippi River fell first, not the approach spans.
Dorgan and several others, including U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Mary Peters and Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, testified during a daylong hearing on Capitol Hill led by U.S. Rep. Jim Oberstar, D-Minn.
Oberstar is proposing a 5-cents-per-gallon increase in the federal gas tax to improve bridges across the country, where one in eight are deemed "structurally deficient." Peters said a gas tax hike wasn't necessary and that instead, Congress could limit federal earmarks, which she said consume federal transportation dollars.
That led to several clashes with Oberstar and other Democratic members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. "It would be immoral to have this bridge collapse and do nothing about it," Oberstar said at the conclusion of the hearing, after Peters had left.
But the proposal found support from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the American Trucking Association and several others, including senior transportation officials in other states.
The strongest testimony came from Donald Kaniewski, legislative and political affairs director for the National Construction Alliance, a coalition of trade unions that included the union representing a crew working on a deck repair job the day of the collapse. One worker was the 13th victim recovered from the wreckage.
Kaniewski said the workers should have been replacing the bridge, not repairing it.
"We believe they were doing the wrong job," he said.
I-35W bridge runoff created 4-foot-by-6-foot hole By Tony Kennedy, Star Tribune
quote:Water runoff from the I-35W bridge created a 4-foot-by-6-foot hole in the ground near one of the bridge's concrete support piers weeks before the bridge collapsed, a Minnesota Department of Transportation spokesman said Tuesday. Crews filled the hole with cement and the washout didn't affect the bridge's structural integrity, MnDOT spokesman Kevin Gutknecht said.
"The pier didn't sink. The pier is mounted on bedrock," Gutknecht said. "Nothing eroded under the pier."
He described the site of the erosion as being 50 to 60 feet up the hill and away from the base of Pier 5, which stood on the west bank of the Mississippi River. When the I-35W bridge collapsed on Aug. 1, the deck first gave way above Pier 5 at the southern end of the bridge's steel truss spans.
This might sound cold but that's gonna be one heck of a fishing spot next year with all that new structure.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yah, I've had a thought or two similar. If you want a fish out of the Mighty Miss that is.
You see the Ron Schara special about Katrina the other night? Said that the flooding has giving new life to the swamplands and the fishing is better than it ever was.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Law Firm Sues MnDOT For 35W Bridge Inspection Reports Friday, 05 Oct 2007
Law firm wants release of documents relating to bridge collapse
quote:MINNEAPOLIS -- The law firm of Schwebel, Goetz and Sieben filed a lawsuit Friday against the Minnesota Department of Transportation seeking documents related to the 35W bridge collapse. The suit is an attempt to force MnDOT to comply with the Minnesota Government Data Practices Act.
Also, for a close up view of the work that was going on a few days before the collapse, watch the uppermost video in the "Sidebar" on the middle right side of the webpage.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Also worth visiting:
MnDOT "Interstate 35W Bridge Photos"
quote:These photos are being used to document the recovery efforts and in the ongoing investigation of the collapse.
hey BF... you read wheel of time too?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yes Glass,
I am big into fantasy literature. George R. R. Martin is my current favorite but Jordan is right up there. A very hard end for him. He deserves to be remembered.
Posted by NaturalResources on :
Missing MnDOT official fired Scott Wente, Bemidji Pioneer November 10, 2007
quote:ST. PAUL — Minnesota’s transportation emergency management director was fired Friday in part because she remained on the East Coast 10 days after an Aug. 1 Minneapolis bridge collapse.
Minnesota Department of Transportation officials fired Sonia Morphew Pitt, 43, of Red Wing after an investigation found she abused work-related travel privileges and did not return to the Twin Cities as her agency responded to the Interstate 35W bridge disaster.
According to her termination letter, Pitt attended an emergency management conference in Boston July 31-Aug. 4, but extended the trip with stops in Washington, D.C., before and after the conference
Design flaw cited in bridge collapse By FREDERIC J. FROMMER, Associated Press Writer Jan. 15, 2008
quote: .....
The connectors, called gusset plates, were roughly half the 1-inch thickness they should have been because of a design error, NTSB Chairman Mark Rosenker said. Investigators found 16 fractured gusset plates from the bridge's center span.
"It is the undersizing of the design which we believe is the critical factor here. It is the critical factor that began the process of this collapse. That's what failed," Rosenker said at a news conference.
.....
Rosenker noted that structural weight had been added to the Minneapolis bridge in two major renovations, in the 1970s and 1990s.
"When they added the weight they didn't realize they were bringing the margins of safety down to where they didn't exist anymore," he said.
Rosenker said that construction materials on the bridge the day it collapsed, which were part of a resurfacing project, added about 300 tons and were on the same side where failure of the bridge began.
Asked if the construction was the tipping point, Rosenker said, "I'm not ruling it in, and I'm not ruling it out." That will be left to the final report to determine, he said.
quote:MINNEAPOLIS - Old photos of the Interstate 35W bridge show two steel connecting plates were visibly bent as early as 2003 — four years before the span collapsed into the Mississippi River, killing 13 people.
Minnesota Department of Transportation officials declined to say when the state first knew about the bending in the pieces of steel, called gusset plates
Two photos, part of a report issued earlier this month by the National Transportation Safety Board, reveal slight bends in gusset plates that hold beams together at two separate connecting points. The plates are in areas believed to be among the first points of failure when the span collapsed.
The NTSB's Office of Highway Safety confirmed that the bowing is part of the investigation into why the bridge collapsed Aug. 1, the Star Tribune newspaper reported Sunday.
NTSB Chairman Mark Rosenker didn't comment on the photos, but has said the original design for the bridge specified steel for those and other gusset plates that was too thin.
NTSB spokesman Terry Williams told the Star Tribune the bowing is among "the many things that we are looking at as part of this investigation."
The newspaper said inspection records make no mention of repairs to the bending gusset plates.
steel for those and other gusset plates that was too thin.
duh. that was the first thing that i noticed and i'm not even an engineer. it looks almost like sheet metal compared to the beams....
Posted by NaturalResources on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: steel for those and other gusset plates that was too thin.
duh. that was the first thing that i noticed and i'm not even an engineer. it looks almost like sheet metal compared to the beams....
quote:Since the bridge's construction during the 1960s, the state highway department had increased weight on the bridge by adding a layer of concrete to the deck in 1977 and by installing concrete barriers in 1998. And the NTSB said last week that, at the time of the collapse, more than 191 tons of construction material had been piled over the bridge's weakest areas.
Couple those with severe corrosion and you have the I35W tragedy.
So who is responsible?
Posted by Highwaychild on :
Most of the time it's the politicians responsibility. Mostly Governors pizzing the money away on various frivolous expenses. Not just that one elected Official, but it trickles down from there in my opinion.
If you look around there are a ton on road/bridge jobs that need to be undertaken as soon as yesterday. We will be hearing of another incident like this again...
Posted by NaturalResources on :
The way I look at it, the engineer that drew up the original design with inadequate gusset plates and the firm the engineer works for is responsible, the person or organization who signed off the designs is responsible, the engineers who HAD to review the design when they added weight in 1977, 1998 and the bridge resurface in 2007, the person or organization that approved those construction plans, the bridge inspectors that were monitoring the bridge and the firm they worked for that signed off on the inspection work, the MDOT for failing to properly maintain the bridge, and EVERY bureaucrat and politician that signed of or turned a blind eye along the way.... Plenty of blame to go around...
So I guess the real question should be, HOW do we hold these people responisble and what can we do to prevent something like this happening again.
As far as road/bridges that need work??.. LOL I live in PA so trust me I dont have to look around very hard. I work for a firm that does bridge inspections for PennDot and I've seen a few reports of local bridges in the area... Needless to say, there are two in my county I refuse to drive over...
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Have you heard about the bridge in St. Cloud MN that is now indefinitely closed until replacement? Same bridge design, found gusset plates that were beginning to warp.
You hear about the design they (our MNDOT board who was then headed by the lieutenant governor - now removed from transportation office) chose to replace the 35W bridge?
No redundancy though that was one of the key criteria. Passed up multiple "more safe" "less expensive" designs to build one whose weight will rest on cables holding the separately constructed box frames together. 'ONE' of those cables that will not be visible to the eye ever goes...the whole construct will go down.
Insanity.
Posted by rimasco on :
as long as it looks nice......... Posted by NaturalResources on :
Victims see bridge deal as closure $38 million fund OKd in Minnesota
By Mike Kaszuba | Minneapolis Star Tribune 10:24 PM CDT, May 2, 2008
quote:MINNEAPOLIS — Nine months after the collapse of the Interstate Highway 35W bridge, a special $38 million state fund is being created to help compensate the victims.
Amid hugs, handshakes and smiles, legislators announced an agreement Friday on a proposal that would offer everyone who was on the bridge up to $400,000, with an additional $12.6 million pool for the people who suffered the most severe injuries and losses.
Gov. Tim Pawlenty quickly endorsed the compromise, which is expected to win formal approval from the Legislature as early as Monday.
New I-35W bridge may open in September, three months early
The Associated Press - Sunday, May 04, 2008 MINNEAPOLIS
quote:Work on the new Interstate 35W bridge is progressing so well that construction managers said Saturday they expect to open it by mid-September instead of late December as originally scheduled.
Managers for Flatiron Constructors Corp. said during a weekly public tour of the construction site Saturday that the bridge is 65 percent complete, and they could begin hanging concrete segments over the Mississippi River as soon as May 14 or 15. That's three months earlier than originally scheduled.
Flatiron's reward for getting the job done early could be an extra $20 million in federal funds, the Star Tribune reported.
The company's $234 million contract with the state calls sets a Dec. 24 completion date, but includes a $200,000-a-day incentive for each day the bridge is finished before that, up to 100 days.
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not much choice, but you can't leave it exposed...
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