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Originally posted by cottonjim:
So I am curious now, I don't know so I am going to ask. Now that this girl was murdered (in accordance with the quran) is she now clean and able to enter heaven to be one of the seven virgins waiting for terrorist martrys that kill non-believers in Alah's name? Her body was exumed to prove that she was a virgin. Or is this poor girl doomed to a etenity of torment in hell because of her actions on earth. (if you believe that kind of thing)

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Originally posted by bdgee:
I do not object to you holding religious or political "beliefs" differing from mind, but I do object strongly to your demand that I must abandon my own rationale and beliefs in order to adopt the fundamental regidity of yours, which is clearly and openly based on bigotry and ill-formed hate. And I object to your similar demand when, in that last sentence "me" is replaced by any other person or group of persons.

THAT DEMAND IS NOT YOUR RIGHT AND IT IS A DISGUSTING INSULT!

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You really are in your own little world... You always object to anyone's beliefs that are different from yours especially political beliefs... thats why you always rant and rave at everyone on these boards...

And really no one cares what you do much less try to make you abandon your beliefs and such... you flatter yourself too much to think we care about you... the world and much less this forum does not revolve around you... never has and never will... the biggest narcissistic person I ever seen on a forum... lol

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Originally posted by glassman:
this "honor" killing was not done in the name of religion... it is a cultural thing for the middle east no matter what your religion is..

uh, i beleive i pointed that out the the other day too..

it's done in India and Africa too..

and using this kind of stuff to justify invading other nations is as crazy as the people doing it..

"standing around and doing nothing about it" ? what can we do? offer asylum here?

that is possible, but difficult, and i bet people would follow them here and still do it...

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Originally posted by T e x:

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Originally posted by glassman:
Bush has to be the number one man in history to lose so much support so fast, and still be alive to experience it...

the whole world (other than, literally, a handful of countries) was behind him after 9-11..

now?

his best bet is to resign so people can (finally)start to feel sorry for him... NOT....

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Are you up on the Adamses' and Roosevelts' kith n kin histories? I'm not...

but those strike me as the only parallels, re family "dynasties"

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Originally posted by jordanreed:
I know that i felt horroble watching that... did you see where they pulled her dress back down to cover her panties? so ,its not about humiliation or degradation of women. but its that loss of honor thingy. Richard Gere-head kisses that woman and they get all over him..but then ,more or less, drop it. to me,,it was sick..but ...we're a different culture.

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Originally posted by bdgee:
"Please spell correctly if you are going to laugh at me about my own posting."

That is a foolish threat, Mach. You surely don't want or intend to turn this into a hotbed of "Grammarians Without Cause".


Again you fail to understand the screwed up psyche of that sliver of the society claiming (even believing) to stand up for the "honor" of the South, but really bringing it shame and nothing else.

Paraphrasing:

"Honor killing" in the segrationist South (and not there only, by the way) is about the supposed "shame" put upon the "God given honor of the White Race" by deviating from proper etiquette of racial separation and position,

but, in reality, it is about control and humiliation of blacks in their society

Again, I will not be goaded into joining a demand for hateful reactions, physical or otherwise, to what to me (us) are animalistic and sickening activities of another culture (and religion). ( I want no part of such actions of that culture, but also want no part in the animalistic and sickening reprisals you advocate or your claim that such reprisal is a proper cause of a Christian nation.)

(I won't delve into the grammer and punctuation of your post and will not keep a watch on your typos and spelling errors in some attempt to cast a note of superiority and make myself look better, so long as what you post is reasonably nderstandable. Even so, thank you for noting that my mis-spellings (tyops?) are hindering communication.)

I'm sorry you took my post to be making fun of your's. That was not my intent. I certainly believe your previous post was an advocacy of a dangerous and criminal attitude and do not, in any way, find that to be laughable.

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Originally posted by NaturalResources:
It's not about who thinks who is right. It is about what IS right, and I'm sorry, but whether or not some choose to accept it, it is self-evident that the practice of stoning someone to death is NOT RIGHT, and any person, culture or religion that condones it IS WRONG.

Trying to excuse it as a cultural difference and suggesting it is not our place to interfere is almost as disgusting and sick as being in that crowd and standing idly by while this girl was brutally murdered.

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Originally posted by bdgee:
Most folks in Mississippi are kind and gentle.

But a tiny percentage bent on selfish evil (often in the name of some religion) can keep the masses in turmoil and fear and pack instinct can sweep up even the most generous and gentle into a vulgar display of physical violence.

There are more good things about Mississippi than bad things.

(The last several great race riots in this country (actually almost all of them, since it has only been since well into the 20th century that anyplace in the South had enough population to achieve rioting) happened in California, New York and Chicago. And don't forget it was racial rioting in New York that killed dosens of young black men who they said were resisting being drafted into the Union army during the civil war.)

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They killed the blacks because they blamed them for the Civil War which led to the drafts (especially on the irish immigrants)...

more good things in Miss then bad? like what? Casinos?

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Originally posted by Machiavelli:
No I never lived in the south but I do not need to because the bottom line is the lynchings are/were done for racial hatred while Honor Killings in Middle East are done for various reasons that bring "shame" to the family such as when a girl is raped by a family member or another person... they are "honor" killed because they must of provoked the rape or didn't do enough to stop it...hence bring "shame" to the family... just to give a example of a honor killing other then the Kurdish girl's killing...both are about control & humiliation of women... Western thought is not the same as Eastern thought...

but just to humor you... lynchings in the south that are done due to a inter-racial relationship are not always done by the girl's parents or family... but just by KKK or racist thugs who are looking for a excuse/reason to kill a black person... again it's due to racial hatred and not "shame" on a family...

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Originally posted by Sunnyside:

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Originally posted by Machiavelli:
No I never lived in the south but I do not need to because the bottom line is the lynchings are/were done for racial hatred while Honor Killings in Middle East are done for various reasons that bring "shame" to the family such as when a girl is raped by a family member or another person... they are "honor" killed because they must of provoked the rape or didn't do enough to stop it...hence bring "shame" to the family... just to give a example of a honor killing other then the Kurdish girl's killing...both are about control & humiliation of women... Western thought is not the same as Eastern thought...

but just to humor you... lynchings in the south that are done due to a inter-racial relationship are not always done by the girl's parents or family... but just by KKK or racist thugs who are looking for a excuse/reason to kill a black person... again it's due to racial hatred and not "shame" on a family...

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So are you saying that racism is excusable because of the underlying motives but sexism is a rallying point? Plenty of black men were killed by fathers and brothers of daughters who shamed their families by being with a black man. Sounds like control and humiliation of black men. And wasn't this act based on sectarian hatred?

Its the brutality of either act that is the issue. And there certainly is alot of brutality in the U.S., along with sexism, and racism. Who do you choose to monitor us?

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Originally posted by bdgee:
hahahaha

I don't play that silly game.

What skewed attempt at construeing history assumes that, whoever "they" might be, used or needed any reason to attack and kill the black men, other than being racial bigots? Did someone collect affidavits from all the the rioters and find each gave exactly that as a reason?

Since it is clear that the rioters were in violation of very serious laws, if they were forced, by whatever even shame, to explain their actions, why would the tell the truth, if they knew it, and why would anyone expect they would or counld?

Anyway, isn't blaming a race for someting you don't like, then acting with deadly force to punish them for the presumed wrong bias and isn't accepting that as an excuse or explanation for something so utterly wrong equally biased?

A rhetorical question to infer the assertion that there is nothing good in Mississippi does demonstrate pure bias......that's what bigotry is, pure and unadultrated bias.

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Whose accepting anything as a excuse? I'm merely pointing out what their excuse was in their minds. Stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say and take your medication so your lucid. It was called a "Draft" riot and they predominantly attacked blacks, meaning they put the blame on the blacks for the war that led to the draft.

And saying there is nothing good in Mississippi is not being biased or a bigot. My statement is a assumption because unless you can tell me anything good in Miss other then casino's and southern hospitality it is a correct assumption. Mississippi, if you can correct if I'm wrong, is one of the poorest states in the U.S. and especially in the south. The only thing Ole Miss is known for is it's casino's. I love how instead of you addressing my statements and coming with a contradicting one such as proving me wrong and naming some other things about Miss other then casinos you resort to calling me a bigot, bias etc. as well as for the "Draft" riots issue. If you can't come up with a answer to someone's post other then to call them untrue terms why do you bother posting at all.

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Originally posted by Sunnyside:
I'm not preaching. I'm just wondering why the motivation makes the difference. They're both based on hatred and control. They are both barbaric and brutal. And...?

I don't think anyone in American society needs to be convinced that these honor killings are atrocities regardless of motivation. So...?

My problem is that it appears that some are suggesting that we (the U.S.) somehow step in and some how assign consequences.

Again, who do you assign to monitor us and give consequences for what they perceive as our aggregious acts?

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This is also a chance for the U.S. to do something good (championing women's rights) out of something bad (the War) for once.

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Originally posted by Sunnyside:
I'm not preaching. I'm just wondering why the motivation makes the difference. They're both based on hatred and control. They are both barbaric and brutal. And...?

I don't think anyone in American society needs to be convinced that these honor killings are atrocities regardless of motivation. So...?

My problem is that it appears that some are suggesting that we (the U.S.) somehow step in and some how assign consequences.

Again, who do you assign to monitor us and give consequences for what they perceive as our aggregious acts?

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Originally posted by bdgee:
"And saying there is nothing good in Mississippi is not being biased or a bigot. My statement is a assumption..."

That is, your statement is one you make without actual information as to its likelyhood, other than a personal predisposition. It is one you make quite forcefully and as if it were a derived conclusion, but via judgment without knowledge. Such a statement is, by definition a statment of bias.....a prejudgment.....bigotry. Sorry, but that is fact.

"If you can't come up with a answer to someone's post other then to call them untrue terms why do you bother posting at all."

Did you look carefully in the mirror as you typed that sentence?

Man, it fits like the pieces of a jig-saw puzzle, when it is solved down to the last few pieces. You declare a post to be wrong, attempting to decimate it through attacks on the terms used, and offer only claims for the "wrongnesses", you propose, that you acknowledge to be nothing but negative opinion, "My statement is a assumption...", to justify them.

You got a real classical case of it.

Incidentally, if it were true, as you say, that Mississippi has only casinos and Southern Hospitality to speak for it, I point out that Southern Hospitality makes up for miles and miles of other stuff. Too, what, other than your own biased opinion have you presented to justify your opinions on the subject?

Quoting Jimmy Rogers, God rest his soul:

"I have heard the tune
About the Alabama moon,
But the Mississippi moon
Is just as bright."


Again. asking God to take care of his soul too, there is the magnificience of the land and people that produced and inspired a William Faulkner to write tales that show and teach us that the South and its culture is both burdoned by and lifted by the exact same sorts of biases and benifits (human greed and human nature) that effect or (affect) any other land or culture.

(An aside, here: Did God (or whatever different overseer of nature) see fir to include some special gene for the souhtern writer, so that, in schools of literature over the World, one of the major disciplines of study is "The Southern Novel"? Whatever the answer, we all thank whatever entity or random quirk of probibility occured for providing us that bit of brilliance.)

And then there's them Southern Bells.......

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Hospitality exists in all states in one form or another from it's inhabitants so stop making it sound like it's only exclusive to Miss or the south. You sure like to double talk in your posts when someone doesn't agree with you.. but your little argument that Miss is all good and not bad is biased in itself.. Casino's (which i consider good because i like to gamble but some people don't), southern hospitality, southern belles (like only beautiful women come from Miss and the south and nowhere else in the U.S. ) and a William Faulkner book that most people have not heard of unless your from the South, study lit in college or a huge Faulkner fan is your proof? ... you neglect to mention Miss's bloody past...

Miss's bloody past more then outweighs some of this... hell when people from around the world hear the word Mississippi they think of the movie Mississippi Burning and the story and crime it was based on... either that or the casino's because of the widespread popularity of Poker around the world and because Ole Miss has casino's... Another story I know about Miss is the trials of Biloxi of it's former Mayor and the Dixie Mafia executing a Judge and his politician wife...I talk to people in Russia, Italy, China etc. and that's all they know about Ole Miss... you make it sound like Miss is the center of culture in the U.S. it's the poorest state in the U.S. if I'm correct with a terrible history of racism unfortunately and that to me is sad...

one bright note is my favorite author went to school (Ole Miss Law school) and lived/practiced law in Miss before he became a favorite author... his name is John Grisham.. perhaps you have heard of him since you know everything about Miss I guess that would make me biased for Ole Miss churning out Grisham since he is my favorite author..


P.S. I love how you dodged the issue of child rapists getting the death penalty in Texas when I addressed it to you specifically... since you are so adamantly against the Death Penalty... perhaps I will get lucky you and will be lucid enough today to address it..

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Originally posted by bdgee:


I never said anything that might be construed to warrant the statement, "your little argument that Miss is all good and not bad is biased in itself" and I never claimed to know everything about Mississippi or any other state, nation, territory, city or whatever.

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Yep, Grisham is a fine author. Grew up right there in Oxford,

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Like Faulkner, most people will never read any of Grisham's books and won't recognize his name, unless they "...study lit in college ...". (But that is the case with any author since the industrial revolution made printing presses common and public education made literacy the norm.)

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simply because someone cites a contradiction to a statement of yours, does not make everything they say or think directly the opposite of what you say or think and it most certainly doesn't give you freedom to announce your belief to be what they think or the freedom to alter what they have said.

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I have made NONE of the statements you are claiming I have. In particular, you can hunt through my post here and you won't find anything I have ever said that infers, implies, or directly states that I am "adamantly against the Death Penalty". That is another of your prejudgements.

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I am not obligated to list each and every thing I think is good about Mississippi and have no desire to make any such list, positive things or negative things, about any state. (Even if I did, as things change with time, soon there would be things switching from one list to the other.)

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Let me see now....some child rapist somewhere....something you brought up, you say?

Oh, yeah, I remember now, it was an attempt to change the subject......to "dodged the issue" at hand.

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If you like Grisham's novels, go get a copy of Faulkner's "Stranger in the Dust". You'll find a model for almost all of Grisham's mysteries.

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Of Grisham's novels, I think I like "A paintd house" best.

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Originally posted by glassman:
drum is the "carp" of the sea... i don't eat 'em...
they have catfish farms dayown hyar,

Catfish Farming and Mississippi have been synonymous terms since the late sixties. There are over 91,000 acres of catfish in Mississippi producing about 72 percent of the catfish produced nationally.


olive oil is for sauteeing... try deepfrying in it? and you'll have a house full of smoke...

i use three times as much olive oil here at home as anything else..
the next is peanut oil..now that you can get hot, and it tastes good... cotton oil can get even hotter, but i don't use it, and never have..

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Originally posted by bdgee:
"You pretty much said throughout this thread I know nothing about Mississippi and that you know everything about it indirectly.."

No I did not ever say, directly or indirectly, that either you know nothing about Mississippi or that I know everything about Mississippi.

I did question your fundamental understanding of southern culture and said your assessment of it and things implied by it are askew, placing your premisses on faulty ground and steering your arguments based thereon in never never land (but in different terminology). Of course, that is the normal and logical result of basing arguments on faulty premisses; conclusioons therefrom are spurious.

(I do not use the word "argument" in the sense that you seem to choose to hear it. That usage of "argument" that carries with it some tone or context of "anger" or "fight" is not the usage I present. I am sorry you take it that way. To me, and as I use it here, an "argument" is developement via logical steps to achieve some conclusion.)

"You actually do that to me and everyone else on this board for all to see... so you contradict yourself in that regards... "


No, you just, apparantly out of bias, misrepresebnt what I say to be something like what you do.

You seem genually lost in the logic of a bare denial or even what that might be. It's like demonstrating the falseness of a statement that claims all odd numbers are prime numbers by pointing out that nine is both odd and divisable by three. That still leaves seven and five, and thirteen and a bunch of other numbers bot prime and odd at the same time so it doesn't declare all odd numbers aren't prime.

Which sets up the machenery to point to another of your habits......taking statements out of context or restating them to infer a different meaning than was the intent. Indeed I did type, just above, the words, in order, "all odd numbers are prime numbers". But I did not say all odd numbers are prime. You may not alter or take out of context any sequence of words ot phrases or sentences, leaving the context behind, that establishes that they do NOT alone transmit whatwas being said.

"... since you are against the death penalty (you can deny all you want now but I already quoted you) "

No, I did not say such a thing and you did not quote me doing so. You must have some one else and something they said confused with me. Thus, since it isn't something I said, it is impossible for you to have "called (me) on it".

You quote me as saying,

"Again, I will not be goaded into joining a demand for hateful reactions, physical or otherwise, to what to me (us) are animalistic and sickening activities of another culture (and religion). ( I want no part of such actions of that culture, but also want no part in the animalistic and sickening reprisals you advocate or your claim that such reprisal is a proper cause of a Christian nation.)",

which indeed I did. Then you falsly conclude and declare that that statement is my statement that I am "adamantly against the Death Penalty".

Nonsense.

That statement, should one read it with no prejudgement or bias, says absolutely nothing about the death penalty. Instead, it speaks about joining hateful reactions to satisfy peer pressure and pack instinct.

"...the death penalty for Child Rapists (which is in itself a honor killing american style since the child was shamed as well as her/his family)"

That doesn't correspond with what you have said before. Before you declared that an act of the state or the Klan couldn't be an honor killing because they weren't shamed (I wonder exactly how you can be so certain ewhat the motivation of the Klan is). The death penalty is an act of the state, not of the family, who by law may not participate in the legal procedings except as witnesses.

"you brought up Mississippi first on this thread so therefor you should be obligated... You can't bring up a topic and then run away from it when it suits you.. I called it on you and thats exactly what you are doing... kind of contradictory when you do that to others... "

No, you misrepresent facts again. The first reference to Mississippi in this thread was at 2007 02:33 PM, May 18, 2007, by glassman.

Thereafter, I did also use the word Mississippi, but the purpose and the context of my use of the word was not to speak of of Mississippi itself, but the horrors resulting from Klan's claim to be representing "southern culture. The scene I described actually happened in Mississippi. It was one I actually watched, through the eyes of the "strange white guy was driving by". Later, because I had that experience and leatned why they ran, I weatched and sawabout the same reactions in both children and adults in Alabama and Georgia and Florida.

I don't think what I said it has much to do with it vbeing in Mississippi and I don't feel any obligation to go into any further consideration of Mississippi in order to play your childish game of hatred and bigotry.


"Grisham's novels are actually Legal drama/thrillers"

Well, so is Faulkner's "Stranger in the Dust", as were severaal of his novels. They scribe a pattern for many later authors.

I enjoyed "The Broker", but I don't count it among his better tales. Its immediate predecessor, whose name I don't recall, was among Grisham's best.

Have you considered attending a seminar in anger management or maybe reading some Will Rogers, who never met a man he didn't like?

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Originally posted by Machiavelli:
No I never lived in the south but I do not need to because the bottom line is the lynchings are/were done for racial hatred while Honor Killings in Middle East are done for various reasons that bring "shame" to the family such as when a girl is raped by a family member or another person... they are "honor" killed because they must of provoked the rape or didn't do enough to stop it...hence bring "shame" to the family... just to give a example of a honor killing other then the Kurdish girl's killing...both are about control & humiliation of women... Western thought is not the same as Eastern thought...

but just to humor you... lynchings in the south that are done due to a inter-racial relationship are not always done by the girl's parents or family... but just by KKK or racist thugs who are looking for a excuse/reason to kill a black person... again it's due to racial hatred and not "shame" on a family...

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i missed alot of posts here, Mach.

lemme show you the last publicly known lynching:

Emmit Till... happened real close to where i currently live:

Emmett Till was the son of Mamie Till and Louis Till. Emmett's mother was born to John and Alma Carthan in the small Delta town of Webb, Mississippi ("the Delta" being the traditional name for the area of northwestern Mississippi, at the confluence of the Yazoo and Mississippi Rivers). When she was two years old, her family moved to Illinois. Emmett's mother largely raised him on her own; she and Louis Till had separated in 1942.

In 1955, Till and his cousin were sent for a summer stay with Till's great-uncle, Moses Wright, who lived in Money, Mississippi (another small town in the Delta, eight miles north of Greenwood).

Before his departure for the Delta, Till's mother cautioned him to "mind his manners" with white people.

Till's mother understood that race relations in Mississippi were very different from those in Chicago. The state had seen many lynchings during the South's lynching era (ca. 1876-1930), and racially motivated murders were still not unfamiliar, especially in the "Delta" region where Till was going to visit. Racial tensions were also on the rise after the United States Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education to end segregation in public education.

Till arrived on August 21. On August 24, he joined other teenagers as they went to Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market to get some candy and soda. The teens were children of sharecroppers and had been picking cotton all day. The market was owned by a husband and wife, Roy Bryant and Carolyn Bryant, and mostly catered to the local sharecropper population. Till's cousin and several black youths, all under 16, were reported to have been with Till in the store.

Depending on who tells the story, as Till was leaving the store, he either whistled at or physically assaulted and propositioned Carolyn Bryant. She stood up and stormed to her car. The boys were terrified thinking she might return with a pistol and ran away. The news of this greatly angered her husband when he heard of it upon his return from out of town several days later.

Till's cousin, Wheeler Parker, Jr., who was with him at the store, claims Till did nothing but whistle at the woman. "He loved pranks, he loved fun, he loved jokes ... in Mississippi, people didn't think the same jokes were funny." Carolyn Bryant later asserted that Till had grabbed her at the waist and asked her for a date. She said the young man also used "unprintable" words. He had a slight stutter and some have conjectured that Bryant might have misinterpreted what Till said.

i won't say there's not alot of jes' plain hatred, but i stand behind my statement that a large proportion of the lynchings were brought on by more then jes' plain hatred...

Murder

At about 12:30 a.m. on August 27, Bryant and his half-brother, J.W. Milam, kidnapped Emmett Till from his great-uncle's house in the middle of the night. According to witnesses, they drove him to a weathered shed on a plantation in neighboring Sunflower County, where they brutally beat him. The fan around his neck was to weigh down his body, which they dropped into the Tallahatchie River near Glendora, another small cotton town, north of Money.

The brothers and police tried to convince the people that Emmett Till was in Chicago and that the beaten boy was someone else, but the only way that he was recognized was by the ring on his finger that had been his father's. His mother had given it to him the day before he left for Money. The brothers were soon under official suspicion for the boy's disappearance and were arrested August 29 after spending the night with relatives in Ruleville, just miles away from the scene of the crime.

Both men admitted they had taken the boy from his great-uncle's yard but claimed they turned him loose the same night. Word got out that Till was missing and soon NAACP civil rights leader Medgar Evers, the state field secretary, and Amzie Moore, head of the Bolivar County chapter, became involved, disguising themselves as cotton pickers and going into the cotton fields in search of any information that would help find the young visitor from Chicago.

After collecting stories from ordinary blacks first hand, Amzie Moore, a Delta civil rights veteran and member of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership and the NAACP, asserted that whites had murdered and lynched over the years "more than 2,000" blacks and thrown their bodies into the Delta’s swamps and bayous.

Some supposed that relatives of Till were hiding him out of fear for the youth’s safety or that he had been sent back to Chicago where he would be safe.

Moses Wright, a witness to Till's abduction told the Sheriff that a person who sounded like a woman had identified Till as "the one" after which the men had driven away with him. Bryant and Milam claimed they later found out Till was not "the one" who allegedly insulted Mrs. Bryant, and swore to Sheriff George Smith they had released him. They would later recant and confess after their acquittal.

In an editorial on Friday, September 2, Greenville journalist Hodding Carter, Jr. asserted that "people who are guilty of this savage crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law," a brave suggestion for any Mississippi newspaper editor to make.

i am tempted to go 'round with a camera and post actual pictures of how people are still living down here today...

it ain't over, the poverty in many of the towns here is equivalent to the third world (i've seen that too)..

we just (this week) had a local TV news story on how a town finally got running water... many of the residents have been using hand pumps till this year...

unfortunately? our local news station doesn't post most of their stories on the net...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Originally posted by bdgee:
I do agree, Mach...

Farm raised catfish don't even smell like normal catfish.

It ain't that they tast bad, because they don't taste.

Maybe wild catfish taste better because they have felt freedom and have something to be proud of?

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