posted
UMMMMM.....I thought the topic was "Billary". Anyway...what democrat has an honest chance of becoming president? Any thoughts from the left?
Posts: 1178 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Aug 2005
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I thought it was funny on one hand and disrespectful in the other.. Reason being, that in past generations we would not refer to our presidents this way. I know my grandparents did not like all the presidents in their generation, my grand mother was in love with John Kennedy, he could do no wrong in her eyes, she never spoke ill about any of our presidents. They were voted in and were given repect no matter what side of the isle they were from. I miss the days of a generation that had a sense of dignity, they were my grandparents generation born in 1911 and served in WWII (That Generation) built this country and layed the foundation from which we sit upon and we ought to show a sense of integrity when discussing our presidents and their families, regardless of what happened..
For the old timers!
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy Posts: 1102 | From: Sometimes Honolulu, Sometimes Laguna Beach, today in the Valley | Registered: Aug 2006
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dubya is responsible for the current condition of the U. S. and that condition is far far worse than what it was when he started.....far far worse than it would have been had he not lied to start an unnecessary and illegal war.
It is false to claim that all or even a fair share of the problems we now face were here before him and to claim that all or even a fair share of the problems we now face would have had to be faced by some other president too.
He, through blunders and lies, created all the problems with Iraq and the terrible foreign policy state we are in and the hopeless economic disaster that is looming for this Nation when we can't pay China for funding the Iraq war.
It is because of his blunders and lies that we invaded a peaceful nation without cause and most of the serious problems facing our Nation now would either not be or would not be so bad had they been tended to instead of wasting all our wealth and good relations on invading Iraq.
It is because of his blunders and lies that we invaded a peaceful nation without cause and squandered on that war all the huge surplusses he was left with in the treasury upon assuming the presenency and all the even larger sums the Chinese government has loaned so we could continue to refuse to admit that invading Iraq was not justified.
It is because of his blunders and lies that we invaded the peaceful nation Iraq without cause and ignored Afganistan, which is the country we had justification and need to invade, so that now we stand a very good chance of loosing there too.
And then there are the many many attacks on and violations of the Constitution that would not have happened if dubya had not been anointed by the republican court.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dinner42: Oh and Billary..
I thought it was funny on one hand and disrespectful in the other.. Reason being, that in past generations we would not refer to our presidents this way. I know my grandparents did not like all the presidents in their generation, my grand mother was in love with John Kennedy, he could do no wrong in her eyes, she never spoke ill about any of our presidents. They were voted in and were given repect no matter what side of the isle they were from. I miss the days of a generation that had a sense of dignity, they were my grandparents generation born in 1911 and served in WWII (That Generation) built this country and layed the foundation from which we sit upon and we ought to show a sense of integrity when discussing our presidents and their families, regardless of what happened..
For the old timers! :)
Sorry, dinner, but I remember those times. And I remember what the republicans did to Harry Truman and his family and the last thing that could ever be honestly said is that they treated Truman with respect.
You seem to be offering a quite convienient memory of the times. I'll bet you have forgotten the hateful anti-catholic campaigns they fostered against Kennedy too and what they accused Johnson and Carter of was nothing but the deepest sort of hate and insult.
I'm sorry, but the picture you paint of the political manners of our elders is a bit too rosy. particularly that that is of the republican machine.
(I haven't even mentioned the reign of mister nobility, Sir Richard Nixon and his secret dirty tricks department. I could include details of that and this post would go on for pages.)
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Thank you for exercising the big debate... It helps to see all sides.
I am aware of the flaws of all of our leaders in government, they all have them.
Question is, who in 2008 will be up to the task of cleaning up the mess...BY the Way! I do think that the Republican administrations of yester year often leave the mess of a war or conflict for the next democratic administration to clean up...am I close in the summation? Gents...
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy Posts: 1102 | From: Sometimes Honolulu, Sometimes Laguna Beach, today in the Valley | Registered: Aug 2006
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Those are not flaws you see in the members of the current Administration. Flaws can be mended.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dinner42: Thank you for exercising the big debate... It helps to see all sides.
I am aware of the flaws of all of our leaders in government, they all have them.
Question is, who in 2008 will be up to the task of cleaning up the mess...BY the Way! I do think that the Republican administrations of yester year often leave the mess of a war or conflict for the next democratic administration to clean up...am I close in the summation? Gents...
Is that correct? I remember a President Johnson escalating the War in 1965, leaving the "mess" to Nixon.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
The Iraq conflict is a mess without a doubt. Bush will be gone in 08'.
The next President will have to form a plan to get our Military out safely. Congress must do their part, we've elected them to act on important issues, nows is the time to demand they stand up and do what they were elected for.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by dinner42: Thank you for exercising the big debate... It helps to see all sides.
I am aware of the flaws of all of our leaders in government, they all have them.
Question is, who in 2008 will be up to the task of cleaning up the mess...BY the Way! I do think that the Republican administrations of yester year often leave the mess of a war or conflict for the next democratic administration to clean up...am I close in the summation? Gents...
Is that correct? I remember a President Johnson escalating the War in 1965, leaving the "mess" to Nixon.
Do you also remember a President Eisenhower sending our military to Viet nam and Laos and doing it in secret so it could be blamed on later presidents?
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
bdgee, Just so I know where your coming from, is there anything in the Democratic Platform you don't like? Is there anything in the Republican Platform you don't hate?
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I don't have any idea what will or won't be in the Democratic platform as it has not yet been formed. The same holds for the republican platform. I doubt that I will find either acceptable.
If you bothered to pay attention you might have already discovered that I adhere to neither or any other party's agenda, but you seem to be of the bent that anyone not taking your bait is an enemy and lumping them under some label you disparage.
I disparage any and everything that attacks the Constitutiom, which makes the present day claimers of the republican title suspect, since attacking the Constitution is their bread and butter. That does not excuse members of the Democratic Paty that play the republican game or go along with rather than opposing violation of the Constitution.
I also disparage whatever makes government bigger for the sake of government or the appeasement of religion or the convience of wealthy corporations or individuals, meaning, once again, I oppose almost anything fostered by the present claimers of republicanship. (Increasing the overall size of government is not a sin, as it needs to grow for the simple reason the the population of the Nation requires it to, as the increasing complexity of working withing a modern overpopulated world. There are troubles and duties for our Government today that were unnecessary for a country of 1/2 or 1/3 the present population and it is only reasonable to understand that our government must be bigger than those of W.Wilson's or A. Jackson's. There are relations today with commerce that wasn't even imagined 100 years ago, but the Constitution still requires the government to regulate them, i,e,. bigger Government is a necessity. That does not hold true for the power of Government to impose on the lives and freedoms of the people.)
I commend you for recalling that it was Eisenhower, not Johnson that committed the U.S. to war in south east Asia.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
No, it came out of the Pentagon from among a collection of rabidly republican millitary officers who contrived the Bay of Tonkin incident and told Johnson it wasn't faked. Then Johnson, patriotic to the bone, went to Congress and we know the aftermath.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: No, it came out of the Pentagon from among a collection of rabidly republican millitary officers who contrived the Bay of Tonkin incident and told Johnson it wasn't faked. Then Johnson, patriotic to the bone, went to Congress and we know the aftermath.
yes, bdgee, that's what happened, it isn't clear that Johnson even knew the plan... it is possible that it was all a big mistake too... either way? LBJ was ready to spend all that money (to himself)
gee, i guess Cheney learned a thing or two from him huh?
BTW? i was stationed on the C Turner Joys "sistership" out of Pearl for awhile... during exersizes off the coast of Nam in '82? she really was fired upon by VietNamese gunboats.... machine gun fire only...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I never doubted that there were several incidents in which Viet Namese boats did fire.
But the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" was faked.
I remember when the Pentagon also asked Johnson to fly down to Geargia and pen medals on what he was told were soldiers just back from the war. In fact, it was a unit no one of whom had ever been out of the country and the republicans treid to stick that on Johnson too.
Johson was to the Pentagon about Viet Nam as the Congress was to Bush in the build-up and for a long time after the invasion of Iraq: simply unable to allow a belief that such haghly placed and supposedly honorable people could present bold faced lies to them and to the country, particularly in order to wage war.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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