posted
I understand the DOW catering to specific groups to garner their business. This is common and a good business practice.
Tex, I would not be surprised to find websites which do cater to environmentalists, animal lovers, tree huggers, such as I am.
However, I am uncomfortable with companies catering specifically to the Islamic. Ok, reads racist but this is not intended. For the most part, the Islamic are ok people. They are no better nor no worse than typical Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, whatever.
Nonetheless, I do not like Islmaic law creeping into our way of life. A vast majority of Western people do not agree with, actually vehemently oppose Islamic law. This is very obvious.
Concerns me Islamic law is making such headway into our everyday lives. Almost every aspect of our lives are being effected by Islamic law. I do not like this one bit, not at all.
Being fair, I do not like Catholic laws, I do not like Methodist laws, nor do I like Baptist laws. I do not like any religious laws.
Stock markets controlled by Islamic law. This is seriously wrong and a serious threat to our freedoms and way of life.
The Islamic are very numerous. They outnumber us by a hundred to one. Notice which sectors are left after so many are banned? What effect will this have, Islamic money being dumped into only a few select market sectors? This will cause markets to become lopsided, will cause economic disaster.
Nothing racist here, mine are financial concerns and concerns about Islamic laws reaching too far into our Western societies.
I do not like and will fight against those who would impose archaic religious laws upon us all, laws which promote discrimination, death and war for us all.
posted
Hey Whale! It's raining like Hell up here, I told you we had a SEA LION problem, not a damn drought! Put that whammy thingamajigger on the Sea Lions, not the CLOUDS!! Geeezz, I'm moving vehicles to higher ground!
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
K, I just can't get excited about it, at first blush...admittedly, sometimes it takes me awhile to think things through that seem readily apparent to others. In my "defense," that quality has also saved me some headaches and even worked to my advantage. As a reporter, some of my better finds were the result of methodically avoiding the interviews and leads the other reporters were chasing. Literally, if they were all clamoring after a witness (or issue) heading out the front door, I made it practice to head for the back door... made some pretty good catches that way.
In this case, my tendency is let market forces prevail: they can boycott pork-bellies all they want, I'll still get my bacon...
My main concern with market-driven society is that *all* costs be accounted for: eg, from an "environmentalist" point-of-view, the cost of a disposable product should also include its eventual disposal... As in public-company finances and market regulation, transparency should be a given. Otherwise, you and I pay for "Bic pens" in our sanitation/sold waste/water treatment bill even though we use refillable fountain pens...
I can get excited about it. Its an insidious way to permeate our culture with their religious beliefs. And, since we're a money driven society, the prospects are frightening. I resent our own politicians trying to legalize their religious beliefs. Personally, I find it all frightening.
Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I applaud your previous efforts in cleaning up some of the corruption on Wall Street. I want to urge you to continue the good fight and not stop here.
My concern is with the manipulation in the stock market by way of illegal naked shorting of securities by way of market maker's, and brokerage houses.
I do not believe that the SEC is doing all they can to stop these illegal activities that are going on throughout the markets. From the pennystocks up to the big boards, these illegal practices are running rampant and are hurting many. I am urging you Mr. Spitzer, to please take on this task to further clean up our stock market and not look the other way to this issue.
Thank you for your time.
-------------------- Buy Low. Sell High. Posts: 10750 | From: The Land Of The Giants | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Seems to me, the same people who are itchy under the collar about Islamic Market Indexes should also be bothered by supermarkets selling Kosher items.
I believe this is a wonderful service for those who are serious about their Islamic faith.
quote:Originally posted by Purl Gurl: Ok, reads racist but this is not intended. For the most part, the Islamic are ok people. They are no better nor no worse than typical Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, whatever.
BTW: "Islamic" is not a race.
Your comments might be construed as "bigoted", not "racist".
Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
w, there is a fundamental difference between the Hebrew and Islamic religion that is critical to people not of either faith.
Hebrews are not imposing their law on non-Hebrews while Islamic States are.
secondly, and more importantly? Oil money is flowing into Islamic States at a rate that should make everybody in America and other freedom loving states very afraid. It is flowing in at a rate double what it was in 2002..... that is RAW market power, that is the power to decide what sectors will survive and which will fail.... they have no choice but to re-invest that money somewhere....
there is little comparison to what you buy at the grocery store and how the global markets work....
it may not matter to you today, but it will matter to everybody before the end of the next decade....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Oil money is flowing into Islamic States at a rate that should make everybody in America and other freedom loving states very afraid.
What does this have to do with the DOW offering Islamic Market Indexes?
How does providing investors with simple information on which securities meet Islamic religious guidelines translate into a shift in global markets?
Do you think orthodox Muslims are going to invest in Pork Belly futures unless the DOW offered this service?
I am not questioning whether or not Islamic states are fundamentally oppressive. One need not be a Christian or a woman living in Iran to understand this reality. However, the DOW is offering a business service and suddenly people are leaping to illogical conclusions.
It reeks of xenophobia.
Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
one more point W, the new "democracy" in Iraq has a constitutional provision that states there shall be NO law made that is not in accordance with Islamic Law.... and? the oil in Iraq is being set up as state-owned too... which means there are a very few that have control over the majority of the resources.... in other words? there is no "free-market"
this is why these things should concern you if you are not Islamic.... and? One need not be a Christian or a woman living in Iran to understand this reality. is just the tip of the iceberg....
i am unaware of any other religiocentric indexes on the market... i have no doubt there many many Funds available to those that choose them... PRIVATELY run funds.... am i wrong? is there a Hebrew Index or a Christian Index?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: one more point W, the new "democracy" in Iraq has a constitutional provision that states there shall be NO law made that is not in accordance with Islamic Law....
And?
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the oil in Iraq is being set up as state-owned too...
And?
quote:Originally posted by glassman: which means there are a very few that have control over the majority of the resources.... in other words? there is no "free-market"
Hahahaha...when it comes to oil, what's new? Key Acronym: OPEC
"Free market"...oil...hahaha...you are killing me.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i am unaware of any other religiocentric indexes on the market... i have no doubt there many many Funds available to those that choose them... PRIVATELY run funds.... am i wrong? is there a Hebrew Index or a Christian Index?
One can create customized Dow Jones Indexes until they are blue in the face: Source
Are you saying Muslims should not have the right to do what any other customer is able to do?
Or are you saying the Government should begin regulating what kinds of Indexes the Dow Jones is able to offer?
Why should secular Indexes have preferential treatment over religiocentric Indexes?
Should we also ban Indexes that do not include corporations representing a diverse background?
__________
Seriously, that is why I raised my voice of criticism because this issue has clearly not undergone serious analysis and yet people have Islam dominating the world because the Dow Jones is now offering Islamic Market Investing (as if Muslims aren't smart enough to pull this off on their own). Pffffftttttt...the guys in white sheets would be giving you high fives!
And don't even get me started on the Dubai Ports deal. More ignorance was displayed on that issue than in a classroom full of public school teachers.
Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
please do tell me how stupid i am somemore....
you are correct, one can create customised indexes. now show me some Christian or Hebrew ones?
show me where Talmudic Scholars are verifying companies for Indexes? i didn't say they don't exist, i said i'm unaware of them...
or can't you comprehend 9 word sentences?
America was founded by people escaping State Religion all over europe...
this is why i am concerned, not because other people are practising their religion, but because their religion has a VERY strong tendency make laws that are not in accordance with US constitutional principles.....
you see? OUR constitution says exactly the opposite to Islamic States'....
that is a historical fact
based on your postings? i think maybe you are able to see what's in front of you..... but no further.... you ask me so many irrelevant questions...
the relevant question: why is an Islamic Index becoming so important... and that? i already answered...
you have no substance to any of your points...
you simply call names and ask stupid questions because you are mad that NDOL is tanking some more.... make a point.... i never said we should we should ban any indexes... just that "i see dark sails on the horizon, bring me my broadsword"
BTW? it has nothing to do with PG bashing it.... the MM's know their business
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: please do tell me how stupid i am somemore....
I have not told you that you are stupid. I am sorry if you inferred this from my responses to your post. I believe you bring up some good points and are somewhat articulate - we happen to disagree...that's all. I would respond the same way to you while conversing over a beer if you were my friend.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you are correct, one can create customised indexes. now show me some Christian or Hebrew ones?
I am not aware of any Christian or Hebrew Indexes, but they are in the works. However, scores of "socially-conscious" Indexes are available. So, back to my question which you artfully dodged:
Why should secular Indexes have preferential treatment over religiocentric Indexes? (And you talk about free markets - free markets, unless it's Islamic et al...[read: all religions]).
quote:Originally posted by glassman: show me where Talmudic Scholars are verifying companies for Indexes? i didn't say they don't exist, i said i'm unaware of them...
or can't you comprehend 9 word sentences?
If you are going to attempt a smattering of condescension at least mnake it effective.
Again, I am not aware of any at the moment, but they are in the works:
"Having launched the Islamic Index, the first religiously-oriented stock benchmark, Rushdi Siddiqui, the director of the index for Dow Jones told the Jewish Week he is considering the creation of indices that would track companies in keeping with the moral codes of Orthodox Jews and Bible Belt Christians." Source
quote:Originally posted by glassman: America was founded by people escaping State Religion all over europe...
this is why i am concerned, not because other people are practising their religion, but because their religion has a VERY strong tendency make laws that are not in accordance with US constitutional principles.....
How do you foresee the creation of Islamic Market Indexes evolving into legislative poilcy making in the United States of America?
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you see? OUR constitution says exactly the opposite to Islamic States'....
that is a historical fact
The Constitution of the United States of America is precisely the document which allows for the creation of such items as the Islamic Market Indexes. Amazing paradox you have single-handidly created. Impressive.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you have no substance to any of your points...
The use of hyperbole is the first sign of weakness in a discussion.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you simply call names and ask stupid questions because you are mad that NDOL is tanking some more.... make a point....
I never called you any names.
I could care less about the day-to-day price of NDOL. I have made tremendous returns on NDOL, sold some along the way and riding a decent amount "free". I have been consistent in my statements that I will hold this until I can realize the 15% capital gains rate.
Nice try.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: BTW? it has nothing to do with PG bashing it.... the MM's know their business
I could care less who offered the above information. I appreciate people bringing matters of current affairs to the forefront. I am simply challenging the xenophobic, isolationist mentality of people who are getting all jittery over Islamic Market Indexes.
Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: you see? OUR constitution says exactly the opposite to Islamic States'....
that is a historical fact
The Constitution of the United States of America is precisely the document which allows for the creation of such items as the Islamic Market Indexes. Amazing paradox you have single-handidly created. Impressive.
once again? you fail to address the root issue and attempt to obfuscate my point.. i could care less about whether there are indexes created in specific.... as your own DD show? i was correct in my assumption that there are no other religiocentric indexes yet... but as a result of this one? we'll get more...
let me tell you a story:
I was fishing in a state run pond halfway between Lincoln and Omaha in '02. It's a catch and release pond with 5lb bass that are easily caught. The access is so good that even people in wheelchairs can fish there. I could take my 6 yr old son and not worry too much abot his safety. A bonus was that the bass were so worm friendly that it was common to hook a 5 or more pounder on a balled up night crawler. A nice afternoon with the "sprout". The state stocks this pond called West Lake with hatchery catfish and trout. They are not catch and release. I personally don't get much of a kick out of catchin' and eatin' farm raised fish. They tend to taste like corn (to me). Any way, "sprout" decided that we had to fish for some fish we could keep and eat after watching several others doing so. I relented. So? I brought some corn (LOL) next time i went and we proceeded to catch a dozen farm raised trout. The sate also supplies a state-of-the-art fish cleaning station which any fisherman would love to have access to. As i was filleting my catch, a pair of self-professed Islamic gentlemen came in with their catch. Yes, they lived in Liconoln NE, and they said they were from Iraq. We conversed for a short time, but the conversation kept coming back to how i was cleaning my fish "wrong". They were becoming more and more forceful about how i must clean the fish the way they were, which included leaving the heads on. Now, i am normally a pretty laid back person, and i've been in many other countries, ( i've even eaten live shrinp and octopuss in Japan) but these guys managed to make me pretty uncomfortable. Consider? We all had very sharp knives, the room wasn't very big, and they were getting very angry because i refused to follow what quickly became their demands.
I ended up just putting the rest of my fish and my young son in the truck and splitting...to finish up at home....
had my son not been there? i may very well have told them to go fork themselves, and who knows what woulda come of that?
so? W, consider yourself warned, there is a very different attitude within the Islamic "culture" about how religion be practised as compared to US values.... i'm not being bigoted, and i am not basing my observation about this on one single incident, but this incident was a great example, especially since i was in the very heart of our own country... you are the one who is trying to make more out the statements made here than are intended...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
50 basis points? Damn thats enough to shudder the timbers of even a port city like Dubai...
I really don't like the hype of the talking heads..Their upper lip quivers as they squak!,,, buying opertunity now, blah blah blah..
If The Fed hikes hard? You better believe there will be some "buying ops." LMAO
Scary market, you are way ahead working in the shop! Is it getting Hot in there?
I actually worked on a sweet potatoe digger one time in North Carolina, just helping out when we visited my Wifes family farm..It was so hot I would find a hose and just stand under it, when ever possible..They really thought this Macho Fisherman was a light weight Yankee! LOL
Reading through the post of this thread, I can't help but wonder if westcott isn't, with new name, a reincarnation of several past appearances here, once again weaseling in to try to make the case that religion is the basis of everything, pushing out the right to be free to debate honestly and without bias.
As with each of his previous appearances, he refuses to practice logic and bases what he wants to be seen as reason on what he wants and chooses rather than what is real.
Misrepresent, misquote, misconclude.
This time too he inserts and injects via disclaimer and innuendo affronts to the character of any who do not adhere to his choice of conclusion.
I do not find it inspiring. I find it tiring at best. I find it irritating at least. I find it insulting in general.
We, by the facts and acts of our Founding Fathers were granted the right to live in a culture free of any and all religious bigotry or dictation. There is ever a need to preserve that grant which has allowed this nation to become the richest and strongest that exists.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
if you are insinuating that he's aragorn? i doubt it... different type of sentence construction, different approach to debating.... i did notice the similarity about freedom "from" religion as opposed to freedom of religion...
but?
a lot of energy has been spent in recent years attempting to justify inserting religion into the legal system.... after all the effort Bush made to "go after" the conservative Christian vote? it was bound to have a broad impact on people's perceptions....
it's hilarious that some of US that are dedicated to freedom would be accused of bigotry, LOL bigotry? because we are concerned that bigots might gain control? LOL i'm bigoted against bigots
there are plenty of people of every race creed and color that refuse to see unpleasant or inconvenient truths... so many people say "that will never happen in America".... well? we've seen a lot of things "that will never happen in America" happen here this millenium haven't we? wonder what Farakan is up to these days? he's been awfull quiet since 911......
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Nope, don't have any thought he is ararorn. Speaking figuratively, only. This guy seems to have been a greaty deal more susceptible to education that aragorn was........some of it appears to have been emplanted and at least had an effect.
Similar ignorance or disregard of logic, though. (And not just aragorn, that whole mind-set. Did you know aragorn was "assigned" to come here with that far far far extreme right of the nazies agenda and wasn't the first his group had sent? I've forgotten the name of the group and the web-site that they work from. Should be scary, but I find it more sickening that there is an organization actually working to undermine the Constitution about the net.) I can't remember all of their their names but I can remember the hopeless abuse of logic they all use and the total disregard for the Constitution. They only recognize it as freedom if it dictates to others what they are allowed to believe.
And Tex is right. This guy at leaast is at Allstocks trading and participating, not just here to instigate.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
well, i have to admit i'm still trying to figger out why he accused me of being an hyperbolist, maybe he'll 'splain dat when he comes back to work?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Fish heads, Fish heads Rolly polly Fish heads Fish heads, Fish heads Eat them up, Yummm
I stand behind Glassman. This is not a matter of religion but a matter of infringement upon our freedoms.
Catholics dictate we cannot use condoms. Baptist dictate we cannot have abortions. Right wing Christians dictate we cannot perform stem cell research. The Islamic dictate the infidels must die. Scientologist dictate we must bow before the Grays from Space.
Religion has no place in politics nor legislation.
Yeah, I am pointing out the Islamic. They want to kill us and are killing us, by the thousands. Oh sure, this is just few radical Islamics... being supported financially by millions of Islamic around the world.
What I am witnessing is American politicians, American companies, American courts caving in to the Islamic, bowing before the Islamic.
Say, is not Bin Laden Islamic?
Well, in most areas or our world, for writing what I have, I would be buried up to my neck then stoned to death by local citizens.
Really pisses me off Bush, politicians, our military speak brave bold words about fighting Islamic terrorism, then turn around, bend over and cater to the Islamic.
KILL THE INFIDELS! KILL THE INFIDELS!
That is what Islam is all about. Who the Hades do they think they are to label me a non-believer? Who are they to sentence my family and me to death?
I would post an Islamic cartoon but if I do so, chances are extremely good the Islamic will slaughter my family and me, slowly, by sawing our heads off. That is guaranteed.
What is that all about? Religious freedom?
The Islamic are working at imposing their laws upon us and they are doing a good job of it. Islamic are holding our world hostage and our American leaders are cowering in a corner.
posted
Well, as I originally said, I'm in total agreement with Purl Gurl and Glassman.
Just looking at the problems the Islamics are causing in the European countries they migrated to, you'll see how they are trying to aggressively impose their religious laws on their host countries, with the expectation that those countries will change their way of life and political freedoms to accommodate their RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
It is about maintaining our freedoms. Why the hell do we have servicemen in Iraq?
I resent anyone attempting to impose their religious ideologies into the economy or law.
Westcott: Seems to me, the same people who are itchy under the collar about Islamic Market Indexes should also be bothered by supermarkets selling Kosher items.
You lost any credibility when you made that statement. Not only is it totally naive, its a totally bigotted statement. To think that's a rational comparison is just ridiculous. You may have a good command of the English language, but it lacks any semblence of intelligent discourse. You're just angry, aggressive, and insulting to those who's opinions differ from yours.
And Tex, I may need and enjoy a good massage, but please don't insult me.
Posts: 184 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
First, I can assure the entire board I have never posted a message under an alias. I came to this board by learning about it over at investorsiraq.com. A mention was made of RSHN and the poster mentioned AllStocks as a good source of DD.
Second, I said you were using hyperbole when you made the statement that I had "NO substance to ANY of my posts", glassman. If you go back and look at my response then you will see I provided your quote as a way of reference. We disagree on this issue; however, each individual has brought up substantive counterpoints. My use of the word hyperbole was not mysterious and was not intended to belittle.
Third, I have sifted through all of the rhetoric. I read glassman's anecdote about catching farm raised fish. While disturbing (especially in light of his son's presence), the story tells me nothing about Muslim people as a whole. What it does tell me is that some Iraqi Muslim men living somewhere in Nebraska have some very strong opinions about how fish should be cleaned. :::Shrug:::
Fourth, people here need to realize that I view Islamofacism as a significant threat and we are doing much too little in the way of defending ourselves from its threat. However, what people fail to address is a simple question I will now ask for the third time:
How does the creation of Islamic Market Indexes evolve into legislative policy making in the United States of America?
I made a comparison to selling Kosher foods in supermarkets because purveyors of perishable and non-perishable items have identified a market. Likewise, the Dow Jones has identified a market in religiocentric Market Indexes. I have yet to read one person post a rational explanation for how such a product will suddenly introduce oppressive Islamic Laws into the United States of America. I have an open mind and if someone offers an articulate, logical explanation then perhaps I will be persuaded to change my view.
What I have read, instead, are rants about personal experiences with Muslims, the War in Iraq, abortion (real shocker there...funny thing about this one is the poster associates this with a "Baptist" issue, as if "non-Baptists" do not understand the value of protecting a fetus), the open Mexico border, alias posting conspiracies and a full-onslaught against religion as a source for law.
I didn't think anyone would want to tackle the other question I posed which is why should secular Market Indexes have preferential treatment over religiocentric Market Indexes?
Funny how people conveniently skip over answering such a question head-on and instead begin blaming "Catholics" because they don't believe in the use of condoms. What is even more disturbing about some of the posts I have read is the level of stereotyping and thinly veiled bigotry people use to underpin a point that is being offered to a question that was never posed! Remarkable.
Well, if someone does not mind stepping-up and simply answering what I have been asking since my second post on this topic:
How does the creation of Islamic Market Indexes evolve into legislative policy making in the United States of America?
...and, if someone is brave enough you can answer my second question that has been dangling unanswered:
Why should secular Market Indexes have preferential treatment over religiocentric Market Indexes?
Posts: 456 | Registered: Mar 2006
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