posted
As for the abortion issue, it is only the far left who say that if abortion was banned that women would be forced to go to alleys and be butcherd by quacks. Most abortions performed today are done so as a convenience to women and not because they Need to have them done. Unfortunately planned parenthood is not the friend to women that they portray themselves to be. Most abortions would not even be considered if abortions were not so readily availabe and accepted. I would argue that Most women who have had abortions could go back and change things, they would NEVER go the same route again.
Posts: 741 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: As with rape, I believe abortion is a violation of a helpless, defenseless life.
But forcing the rapists victim to carry an unwanted child to term is not a violation of another defenseless life?
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
While I would hope the same thing Ruthie, it's just not true. Most women who have had abortions would not change things and many women have had multiple abortions. Sad but true, and I believe you are right, abortions are too readily available as a form of birth control (albeit a very expensive one).
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Abortions must always be readily available if we are to call ourselves a compassionate society.
Not as a routine form of birth control. Condoms, the pill, education, abstinence, etc., yes, acceptable\preferable forms of birth control (I know, big joke).
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Both liberals and conservatives have abortions.
quote:Originally posted by ruthie: it is only the far left who say that if abortion was banned that women would be forced to go to alleys and be butcherd by quacks...
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin Posts: 3898 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: As with rape, I believe abortion is a violation of a helpless, defenseless life.
But forcing the rapists victim to carry an unwanted child to term is not a violation of another defenseless life?
I don't know that I have a complete opinion on this issue regarding abortion.
I totally and completely understand how painful it would be for a raped woman to carry the child of her attacker. I'm sure that would be horrific.
But how would it help the woman by having the child pulled limb-by-limb from her womb? Would that really take away the pain and hurt from the rape? Would killing that child heal her wounds? Or would it be better to allow the innocent child to live and give it up for adoption?
I don't know...
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ruthie: As for the abortion issue, it is only the far left who say that if abortion was banned that women would be forced to go to alleys and be butcherd by quacks. Most abortions performed today are done so as a convenience to women and not because they Need to have them done. Unfortunately planned parenthood is not the friend to women that they portray themselves to be. Most abortions would not even be considered if abortions were not so readily availabe and accepted. I would argue that Most women who have had abortions could go back and change things, they would NEVER go the same route again.
Obviously you have never lived in the ghetto and seen the life their as it truly is..children having children..babies in dumpsters...6-7 kids, from one mother and 6 fathers, running the streets..Mothers doing and selling crack while their daughters are whoring and druggin just like momma.. This is prevalent!!.. little girls killing their babies every day,by numerous methods. a 5 min abortion or a 5 year abortion. the unwanted kids go unloved and unsupervised.,,growing up to do the same things or worse..how many people are in jail because of their mother NOT having an abortion?
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Read a little closer... I said I don't have an opinion this issue. I'm not deciding anything for anyone, because I don't know.
A part of me thinks a raped woman should be able to kill the baby but another part of me says that maybe it would be best to give it up for adoption instead of punishing the baby for a crime it didn't commit.
Like I said, I just don't know...
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: As with rape, I believe abortion is a violation of a helpless, defenseless life.
But forcing the rapists victim to carry an unwanted child to term is not a violation of another defenseless life?
I don't know that I have a complete opinion on this issue regarding abortion.
I totally and completely understand how painful it would be for a raped woman to carry the child of her attacker. I'm sure that would be horrific.
But how would it help the woman by having the child pulled limb-by-limb from her womb? Would that really take away the pain and hurt from the rape? Would killing that child heal her wounds? Or would it be better to allow the innocent child to live and give it up for adoption?
I don't know...
Put yourself in the shoes of the woman. She's just been through one of the most violent, humiliating acts a human can be put through. Now you're going to force her to carry that child? If I'm deciding it, it comes down in favor of the living, breathing, person that's been violated. She should have every right to an abortion if she so chooses.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: No, I don't think banning them will stop them, but it's more of the principle of the matter.
I think a nation that does not allow people to murder innocent, helpless humans will be blessed by God. I can't imagine God is very happy with babies being carved out of the womb.
You could make the same argument for rape... rape is illegal but it still happens so we should just legalize it and not worry about it, right?
As with rape, I believe abortion is a violation of a helpless, defenseless life.
By that same warped logic, masturbation should be illegal as well right? I mean come on, each one of them little sperms has the spark of life right? So each time you "choke the chicken", your committing mass murder by your logic.
Hey, yeah! And let's add taking a hot bath and swimming in the Gulf of Mexico, since both kill off millions of the little critters.
Then there's jockey shorts!
If God had meant for you to have warm nads he'd a took care of it naturally.
Which brings up a question.
If god hadn't meant you to use your mind to figure out how to control things, then why'd he give you all that creativeness?
Don't we know that an unused mind looses grey matter. It's been proved.
Think, man!
Don't we believe everything here was set up by god when he made all this?
He knew!
You weren't meant to stagnate in the intellect of the 0th century! He planned this.
Another thing comes to mind. Exactly where in the bible is there any express mention of abortion with an expectant mother wanting the abortion? I think the claims of abortion being against scripture or being against the direction of God or of Jesus are ficticious, as there is no statement in the bible by either saying that abortion is evil or wrong, except as it is performed against the wishes of the woman. And in that case it is the forceful denial to the woman her birthright that is being condemned.
Doesn't the same God that makes little humans make little calves and little pigs? If God didn't want those little cows and little pigs he wouldn't have let the cow or the sow get pregnant. Isn't that obvious? Yet, we kill them and eat them. Are you telling me this God doesn't care about anthing he made except humans? I find that far fetched, at best.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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A study was undertaken to see what difference in abortion rates there were between states that have parental notification laws and states that don't. Oddly enough, states that have parental notification laws have seen an increase in abortion rates where those that don't have not. Many of the abortion clinics contacted have stated parental pressure as one of the main reasons for the increase in abortions.
What is a simple moral issue in the general context seems to have a wholely different context when it turns into the "Family's little dirty secret."
The Bigfoot
I don't tell my female friend's what to do with thier bodies...they don't tell me what to do with mine. But if they ASK me, I advocate adoption.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
In the Bible God says humans are above animals. God made animals to be in subjection to man.
The problem with abortion is the killing of a human life, which, we all know is clearly forbidden in scripture.
So, you can argue that the Bible never says "thou shalt not abort," but it's pretty clear when it says "thou shalt not kill".
Murder is the taking of an innocent life against their will and wishes. Can you show me scientifically how aborting a living baby/fetus is not the taking of an innocent life against its will or wishes?
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Define life. Your definition of it might be at the point of conception, others might be when it's able to sustain itself outside the body.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
All sins hurt God. If you are going to use a religious arguement than I would suggest...
Take the plank out of your own eye before you point out the splinter you see in another's.
The Bigfoot
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
What would I do if my 15 year old daughter came to me and said she was pregnant and wanted me to provide a "parental notification" so she could get and abortion?
First, I'd think of the child that never would get a life and how sad that would be.
Second, I'd think of the child that would loose a life not well started and how sad that would be.
Then, I'd weigh the sads involved and the facts that the one would never have to suffer for the life that would not be and second would never have the chance of a normal happy life and that, in turn, would, in all probability deny the one any hope of a life that wasn't a misery.
I'd consent in a flash!
And anyone that would not isn't thinking, just reacting out of hatred and ignorance.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: what are the wishes of a 2 week fetus?
A 2 week fetus obviously does not have the mental capacity to have "wishes" but it is a living being, innocent, helpless, and cannot fight for its own life.
And I'm sure a 7, 8, or 9 month old baby/fetus doesn't have any wishes either, so why not abort them too? Why is that considered wrong?
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: What would I do if my 15 year old daughter came to me and said she was pregnant and wanted me to provide a "parental notification" so she could get and abortion?
First, I'd think of the child that never would get a life and how sad that would be.
Second, I'd think of the child that would loose a life not well started and how sad that would be.
Then, I'd weigh the sads involved and the facts that the one would never have to suffer for the life that would not be and second would never have the chance of a normal happy life and that, in turn, would, in all probability deny the one any hope of a life that wasn't a misery.
I'd consent in a flash!
And anyone that would not isn't thinking, just reacting out of hatred and ignorance.
So your basically saying your daughter is so worthless to the point that you don't think she'd ever have the ability to provide a decent home and life for her baby.
I'd like to give you the "parent of the year" award.
No wonder kids have so much trouble when their parents have such low opinions of them...
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: What would I do if my 15 year old daughter came to me and said she was pregnant and wanted me to provide a "parental notification" so she could get and abortion?
First, I'd think of the child that never would get a life and how sad that would be.
Second, I'd think of the child that would loose a life not well started and how sad that would be.
Then, I'd weigh the sads involved and the facts that the one would never have to suffer for the life that would not be and second would never have the chance of a normal happy life and that, in turn, would, in all probability deny the one any hope of a life that wasn't a misery.
I'd consent in a flash!
And anyone that would not isn't thinking, just reacting out of hatred and ignorance.
So your basically saying your daughter is so worthless to the point that you don't think she'd ever have the ability to provide a decent home and life for her baby.
I'd like to give you the "parent of the year" award.
No wonder kids have so much trouble when their parents have such low opinions of them...
What a presumptive ignorant assumption. You really need to go find someone to teach you to read instead of replacing what is said with imagination from your bigoted psyche. You are crude, both intellectually and socially,
You need to learn some respect and manners, too.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: what are the wishes of a 2 week fetus?
A 2 week fetus obviously does not have the mental capacity to have "wishes" but it is a living being, innocent, helpless, and cannot fight for its own life.
And I'm sure a 7, 8, or 9 month old baby/fetus doesn't have any wishes either, so why not abort them too? Why is that considered wrong?
Because a 7,8,9 month old fetus can survive outside the womb. A 2 week old fetus cannot. That is why late term abortion is considered wrong.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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"Then, I'd weigh the sads involved and the facts that the one would never have to suffer for the life that would not be and second would never have the chance of a normal happy life and that, in turn, would, in all probability deny the one any hope of a life that wasn't a misery."
You are clearly saying that the child would never have a normal, and happy life. You are basically saying it would never have a normal and happy life because your daughter would be incapable of providing a life for the child.
What else could you possibly be saying here? Does your daughter know you have such a worthless opinion of her? Does she know that if she got pregnant you'd rather her kill her baby because you think there's no way she could give her kid a good life?
What a shame you are!!! Why do you hate your child? Why do you think so low of her? It's no wonder you support the killing of unborn babies because you don't even love your own child.
How sad...
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: what are the wishes of a 2 week fetus?
A 2 week fetus obviously does not have the mental capacity to have "wishes" but it is a living being, innocent, helpless, and cannot fight for its own life.
And I'm sure a 7, 8, or 9 month old baby/fetus doesn't have any wishes either, so why not abort them too? Why is that considered wrong?
Because a 7,8,9 month old fetus can survive outside the womb. A 2 week old fetus cannot. That is why late term abortion is considered wrong.
And a legally abortable fetus can survive outside the womb too. A 5 month old fetus can survive outside the womb, yet it's OK to vacuum them up in the razor-blade Hoover.
But no fetus/baby can survive outside the womb on their own because they are helpless and innocent.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
All I want to know is, why do pro abortion people think it's OK to kill a 5 month old fetus but not a 9 month old one?
They are both still unborn, and according to their own logic, not yet a child. So, what's the difference?
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: All I want to know is, why do pro abortion people think it's OK to kill a 5 month old fetus but not a 9 month old one?
They are both still unborn, and according to their own logic, not yet a child. So, what's the difference?
It's not "pro-abortion" as you keep trying to sling about. It's "pro-choice". It's the idea that a woman should have control over her own body.
You keep saying killing the innocent and helpless. What about the millions of children who die every year due to disease and starvation. We can't even take care of "all" of the children already here in the world
You seem to just want to spit out the same vile rhetoric all neo-cons do. "Razor-blade hoover", "ripped out a limb at a time", "let's go blow up another abortion clinic", etc, etc. Same sad scare tactics and no solution. And banning all abortion is not a solution IMO.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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For sake of argument, we'll call it pro choice. I guess that makes you feel more comfortable.
Anyway, I just want an answer to my question. And nobody here can give me a good answer. Why is a 5 month old fetus worthy of death but a 6 month old fetus is not worthy of death?
The pro choice argument is that it's not a life until it's born. So why not abort a 9 month fetus? A 5 month old fetus and a 9 month old fetus have all the same organs, bone structure, pysiological make-up, etc.
I just want a good, scientific and logical answer. It's not too much to ask.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1 Posts: 476 | From: East Texas | Registered: Dec 2005
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